Skyscraper Member
Posted 05 March 2019 - 08:42 PM
For what its worth, it seems DART is going to try to have this mimic its light rail lines.
Also, you could argue DART rail lines are essentially commuter rail lines that happen to run in a closed system (no freight access) and run frequently.
The Silver Line and TEXRail are commuter rail lines due to freight considerations and cost.
-Dylan
Skyscraper Member
Posted 05 March 2019 - 09:07 PM
DART is attempting something fundamentally at odds with what commuter rail is designed to do. Mimicking light rail means trains that operate at about 12-20 minutes headways. A commuter rail frequency to match light rail frequency iis too expensive will drain resources.
Even though freight and airport travelers will be sharing the same rail corridor, I understand that the freight that moves over the corridor is not that of long haul train but of a switch train service.
Tarrant Express Rail is primarily an airport connector service to connect Downtown Fort Worth to DFW Airport; that there are stations at North Side and Mercantile seemed to have been attempts to generate TOD.
Skyscraper Member
Posted 05 March 2019 - 09:19 PM
You're mistaken if you don't think a huge reason for TEXRail is to serve commuters. Both North Side and Mercantile stations have parking lots.
Essentially, Trinity Metro's commuter rail line (TEXRail) is watered-down light rail. That's what the Silver Line will be as well.
-Dylan
Skyscraper Member
Posted 05 March 2019 - 11:23 PM
You're mistaken if you don't think a huge reason for TEXRail is to serve commuters. Both North Side and Mercantile stations have parking lots....Essentially, Trinity Metro's commuter rail line (TEXRail) is watered-down light rail. That's what the Silver Line will be as well.
I don't think that I am mistaken.
If you think that commuter service is a huge reason equally as important as connecting Downtown and DFW Airport, then you would insist on a network bus service in NRH and Grapevine that would compliment the commuter rail and you would see Trinity Metro doing so. You will admit that Tarrant Express/FWTA has nothing in place beyond the parking lot to meet the needs of commuters.
Tarrant Express Rail is an elite express rail connection between Downtown and DFW Airport. There are studies that show that rail connectors are destined to fail because of a lack of connectivity to broader network of transit.
https://humantransit...rt-transit.html
The reality is not obvious. Yet it is clearly obvious that the primary goal of Tarrant Express Rail is to connect Downtown (terminals) to Terminal B (DFW Airport). The carriages are designed for travel between Downtown and the airport. Admittedly, this serves the goal of Fort Worth/Downtown for which no apology is needed.
I reiterate that stations (too many IMO) were included as seeds to generate TOD that would bring in supplemental revenue for the transit authority; that too needs no apology.
I am all for the Tarrant Express Rail. It is a positive and much needed piece to making Downtown an attractive location for office use, tourism, and meetings. In this, Tarrant Express has achieved its goal.
Skyscraper Member
Posted 06 March 2019 - 08:25 AM
I agree. Isn't the Silver Line to be Dallas's version of Tarrant Express Rail?
Whatever rail system you call it, and within that system different color designations, I like Fort Worth catching up with Dallas in having an inner-city rail transit system to serve our residents as short-hop commuter riders
Skyscraper Member
Posted 06 March 2019 - 08:26 AM
Cotton Belt to be called the Silver Line. Here is a PDF on the thought process.
https://www.dart.org...em5_26feb19.pdf
Skyscraper Member
Posted 06 March 2019 - 01:40 PM
I agree. Isn't the Silver Line to be Dallas's version of Tarrant Express Rail?
No. I do not think that the Silver Line is Dallas' version of the Tarrrant Express Rail. DART Orange Line is.
The Silver Line fulfills a promise to the Northern Suburbs a direct connection to DFW Airport. Dallas still does not have an elite airport connector to DFW Airport.
I suggest that DART might upgrade the Dallas County segment of TRE in a way to operate an express train between Downtown Dallas and DFW Airport. Only then will Dallas have a compatible version of the Tarrant Express Rail and the Silver Line.
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Skyscraper Member
Posted 07 March 2019 - 07:27 AM
Elite Member
Posted 07 March 2019 - 08:03 AM
Cotton Belt to be called the Silver Line. Here is a PDF on the thought process.
https://www.dart.org...em5_26feb19.pdf
What stood out to me is a side note on page 3. "DARTs service could go to Fort Worth, however TexRail may
only go between Fort Worth and DFW"
Does anyone know more about the possibility of the Silverline service extending past the airport and into Fort Worth?
DART owns much of TexRail's right of way, they do not have to get permission from anyone to run on it. But they do not own the right of way paralleling UP tracks from Tower 60 south into downtown. The last station they own the right of way is Northside which is east of Tower 60. The Grapevine Vintage Railway runs on these same tracks with an agreement with DART - long before TexRail existed. The third platform at DFW North station, the platform on the second leg of the wye, would be for Silver line trains heading further west. But to reach downtown Fort Worth they would have to ask TexRail for trackage rights.
I don't think DART has any short term plans to extend Silver Line trains west of DFW North station - long term is difficult to predict. Politics can swing to and fro with the ever shifting winds as time marches on. Today they would have political difficulties extending Silver line services west of DFW North. Who knows for sure what the politics will be 50 years from now?
Member
Posted 07 March 2019 - 08:14 AM
The fair structure is already unified, right? Buy one ticket, transfer anywhere?
Member
Posted 07 March 2019 - 08:25 AM
DART owns much of TexRail's right of way, they do not have to get permission from anyone to run on it. But they do not own the right of way paralleling UP tracks from Tower 60 south into downtown. The last station they own the right of way is Northside which is east of Tower 60. The Grapevine Vintage Railway runs on these same tracks with an agreement with DART - long before TexRail existed. The third platform at DFW North station, the platform on the second leg of the wye, would be for Silver line trains heading further west. But to reach downtown Fort Worth they would have to ask TexRail for trackage rights.
What stood out to me is a side note on page 3. "DARTs service could go to Fort Worth, however TexRail mayCotton Belt to be called the Silver Line. Here is a PDF on the thought process.
https://www.dart.org...em5_26feb19.pdf
only go between Fort Worth and DFW"
Does anyone know more about the possibility of the Silverline service extending past the airport and into Fort Worth?
I don't think DART has any short term plans to extend Silver Line trains west of DFW North station - long term is difficult to predict. Politics can swing to and fro with the ever shifting winds as time marches on. Today they would have political difficulties extending Silver line services west of DFW North. Who knows for sure what the politics will be 50 years from now?
Skyscraper Member
Posted 07 March 2019 - 01:42 PM
DART owns much of TexRail's right of way, they do not have to get permission from anyone to run on it......The third platform at DFW North station, the platform on the second leg of the wye, would be for Silver line trains heading further west. But to reach downtown Fort Worth they would have to ask TexRail for trackage rights.....I don't think DART has any short term plans to extend Silver Line trains west of DFW North station - long term is difficult to predict. Politics can swing to and fro with the ever shifting winds as time marches on. Today they would have political difficulties extending Silver line services west of DFW North. Who knows for sure what the politics will be 50 years from now?
While that was strategic move on the part of DART to purchase CB track into the TM Service Area., I don't think it would be politically smart for DART to ram their Silver Line onto the Fort Worth to DFW Airport Connector Train. I think that it has been the long held desire for there to be single Transit Authority for North Texas under the control of DART. This is why DART made the purchase.
I don't think it would be politically smart for DART to ram their Silver Line into Fort Worth over the Fort Worth to DFW Airport Connector corridor; as doing so might impact frequency, whether actual or in appearance, between Downtown and DFW Airport and could further strain relationships between Tarrant County and Dallas County.
Now the North DFW Airport Station looks even more implausible once you accept how crazy an idea it would be for the Silver Line to actually by pass DFW Airport entirely to connect Collin County with Downtown Fort Worth.
I would predict that the political climate is not going to change significantly enough for DART to extend into Tarrant County beyond the existing reach. The two regions have their own agendas and primary constituents.
Skyscraper Member
Posted 07 March 2019 - 01:57 PM
Cotton Belt to be called the Silver Line. Here is a PDF on the thought process.
https://www.dart.org...em5_26feb19.pdf
What stood out to me is a side note on page 3. "DARTs service could go to Fort Worth, however TexRail may
only go between Fort Worth and DFW"
Does anyone know more about the possibility of the Silverline service extending past the airport and into Fort Worth?
Would they even be able to without new track being built? I remeber Dylan doing some math that made it seem like headways more frequent that what TEXRail will run is already going to be near impossible.
Skyscraper Member
Posted 07 March 2019 - 06:54 PM
The current design of TEXRail's route only allows for 30-minute headways, but it appears it could handle 15-minute headways with more double-track at specific locations and a second high ITC platform.
Even if possible, I'm opposed to DART running Silver Line trains on the TEXRail route.
Why should DART eat into Trinity Metro ridership in Trinity Metro territory?
DART may own the tracks, but Trinity Metro spent a fortune rebuilding them.
-Dylan
Skyscraper Member
Posted 07 March 2019 - 07:59 PM
I agree.
Over the years, DART has had many successes; and has had some misguided decisions.
The idea that simply because DART purchase the Cotton Belt corridor would exercise some entitlement to operate over Tarrant Express Rail will be a fight that DART will not want to have. Again, DART dreams of someday becoming the sole transit authority for North Texas probably explains why they purchased the corridor in the first place. To still pursue their decades old dream is not a winning strategy.
The three existing transit authorities have created connectivity where it makes sense; and there is where it should end.
Pursuing their decades old dreams is not
Skyscraper Member
Posted 01 May 2019 - 05:37 PM
Silver Line? I've been wondering whether DART would give the Cotton Belt a color designation, but I'm a little surprised it's not something that will have color on a map (purple, yellow, gold, etc).......As for the paint scheme, I'm irritated they never presented the paint scheme with the yellow front we've seen for the past year.
By viewing this, can you identify what is wrong with this picture?
Skyscraper Member
Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:35 PM
?Dallas isn't a destination that you would see on the destination display? This is a rendering, and it does pass through Dallas, so I don't have an issue with it saying "Dallas."
If that's not what you're trying to point out, I can't figure out what you're trying to point out.
-Dylan
Skyscraper Member
Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:45 PM
?Dallas isn't a destination that you would see on the destination display....
BINGO! You know the area's transit trivia. 
Skyscraper Member
Posted 26 June 2019 - 02:35 PM
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Posted 06 April 2022 - 09:07 AM
Skyscraper Member
Posted 06 April 2022 - 09:00 PM
Construction on the Silver Line is a dumpster fire mess compared to construction on TEXRail (built by the same contractor).
The pandemic and supply chain issues probably don't help. Perhaps they have a labor shortage.
But, I suspect there's a bigger reason: the "final" design is still being debated! DART is holding public meetings for design changes on a line that's already under construction! What!
DART needs to stop caving to NIMBYs who are trying to kill the project. That's how the Silver Line lost two stations, and is why the "final" design is still being debated.
It's absurd DART is giving NIMBYs a podium instead of telling them that it's too late to make design changes.
https://www.nbcdfw.c...uction/2912320/
-Dylan
Skyscraper Member
Posted 10 April 2022 - 05:40 PM
It still is a bit of a pain to use to get to DFW but my Spouse and I use it most of the time that we travel to get to and from the airport especially when we use American. United is a really a dragI'm glad TEXRail has already been built from Downtown to the Airport.
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