1105 replies to this topic

[elpingüino]

What's next in the Fort Worth Stockyards: Italian lunch, New York pizza and more steak

[Jeriat]

The pizza looks great.  Looks like he going for the "Cup n' Char" pepperoni, so is this Buffalo style or Brooklyn style?  I'm not an expert, Dookhickie probably knows.  It's making me hungry just looking at it.  Since he's selling it by-the-slice, any word on what they're charging per slice and how big are the slices?  That close-up angle is hard to tell.  I would guess somewhere around $5 to $6 a slice if it's a big NY slice, hopefully not highway robbery prices.  I read some strange negative reviews on Google about Tannahill Tavern but seems like they are still working out all the growing pains involved in running a venue.  I think acoustics will always be a challenge in this kind of space as a renovation.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/oKiEHrwHrH2hNtvU6

 

I believe the cupped pepperoni is a midwestern thing (Detroit & Chicago).

[Jeriat]

 

Project Description: 

The Armour Building Remodel

US Energy Armour Building Renovation

Renovation of existing building and parking lot to Commercial/office

 

Record DS-22-0254: 

Drainage Study

Record Status: In Review

 

https://accela.fortw...ShowInspection=

 

Total Plat or Project Area (Acres): 2.1

Land Disturbance Area (Acres): 2.1

 

Previous related study or studies: DS-20-0150

 

Address: North East Corner of Packers Ave. and Exchange Ave. (601 E. Exchange)

 

Construction Start: 3/2023

 

 

Interesting. 

This was the same plan for this place from the original master plan than I can't show now, for some reason.

[TLA]

The pizza looks great.  Looks like he going for the "Cup n' Char" pepperoni, so is this Buffalo style or Brooklyn style?  I'm not an expert, Dookhickie probably knows.  It's making me hungry just looking at it.  Since he's selling it by-the-slice, any word on what they're charging per slice and how big are the slices?  That close-up angle is hard to tell.  I would guess somewhere around $5 to $6 a slice if it's a big NY slice, hopefully not highway robbery prices.  I read some strange negative reviews on Google about Tannahill Tavern but seems like they are still working out all the growing pains involved in running a venue.  I think acoustics will always be a challenge in this kind of space as a renovation.
 
https://goo.gl/maps/oKiEHrwHrH2hNtvU6
 

I went to Tannahill’s on Saturday to see a few local bands. My wife and I didn’t notice any issues with acoustics. The venue is much larger than I was expecting. Nice addition for locals & tourists alike.

We did grab pizza after the show. It was worth the price, especially the convenience of what is likely the ‘fastest food’ in the stockyards? Funny enough, Tim Love was in front of us picking up pizza when we were there.

[John T Roberts]

It sounds like you had a nice evening.  I have run into Tim Love a couple of times at the Woodshed.

[John T Roberts]

It will be required to go before the HCLC if there are any changes to the exterior of the building.  If they are only paving parking lots and doing landscaping, then the answer is no.

[Doohickie]

The pizza looks great.  Looks like he going for the "Cup n' Char" pepperoni, so is this Buffalo style or Brooklyn style?  I'm not an expert, Dookhickie probably knows.  It's making me hungry just looking at it.  Since he's selling it by-the-slice, any word on what they're charging per slice and how big are the slices?  That close-up angle is hard to tell.  I would guess somewhere around $5 to $6 a slice if it's a big NY slice, hopefully not highway robbery prices.  I read some strange negative reviews on Google about Tannahill Tavern but seems like they are still working out all the growing pains involved in running a venue.  I think acoustics will always be a challenge in this kind of space as a renovation.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/oKiEHrwHrH2hNtvU6

 

I'm going to say it's Tim Love poking his nose in where it doesn't belong.  But that's just my irrational dislike of Tim coming through.

 

Cup and char pepperoni is a feature of Buffalo pizza.  I think other markets use it too.  I can't tell but I don't think that crust is a Buffalo crust, which I've heard described as having "the lightness of a focaccia," thick, but bready and light.  And I'd have to taste the sauce to see if it has the right "Buffalo" flavor ("slightly sweet").

 

If I didn't have a source for Buffalo pizza at Buffalo Bros. I might try Chef Tim's, but since I do I don't feel the need to tempt fate.  I doubt his pizza would stack up to that of Ed McOwen/Jon Bonnell (at least as "Buffalo style pizza" goes). 

 

If I had to guess, Love developed his own recipe for crust and sauce based on features he likes and/or he thinks will get good reviews but I would wager it's not a NY style or Buffalo style or Chicago or Detroit style, it's simply Tim Love style.

[Doohickie]

TLA, Just curios, how much for a slice?

 

Yeah, I'm a little curious too. At Buffalo Bros. it's $3.99 per slice, $4.99 for premium slice (like meat lover's). At a venue I wouldn't be surprised if it was 2X that.

[TLA]

TLA, Just curios, how much for a slice?

 
Yeah, I'm a little curious too. At Buffalo Bros. it's $3.99 per slice, $4.99 for premium slice (like meat lover's). At a venue I wouldn't be surprised if it was 2X that.

I honestly don’t remember. At the risk of being wrong, I want to say around $6-7. For the convenience of a 12am snack in a touristy area, I’m OK with it.

[Austin55]

New HCLC Case:

Applicant requests a COA to install a sculpture to the north of the Exhibits Building.

Case: HC-22-354

Date: November 14, 2022 @2:00 PM

Address: 2513 Rode Plaza

 

 

I listened to the HCLC case which... somehow went on nearly 45 minutes. The buildings owner and applicant obviously were in support. HCLC staff and Historic Fort Worth were in opposition due to the height (the area has a limit of 40 ft). Two options were given, one 45 ft and one 55 ft. The Spur would be the world's tallest.

A motion was made to approve the statue between 35 and 40 feet, which passed.

[Austin55]

Yes its part of Lone Spur

[Jeriat]

The funny thing about this is that I'm willing to bet that the same people who rejected the more urban-built projects within and just nearby projects are totally fine with this tourist trap cheese...

[JBB]

The Spur would be the world's tallest.

 

I keep reading that and I suspect that there's people out there that think this is the sales point that tips this over the edge.

[rriojas71]

The funny thing about this is that I'm willing to bet that the same people who rejected the more urban-built projects within and just nearby projects are totally fine with this tourist trap cheese...

I bet you are correct and it isn't funny anymore.  I guess the next thing they are going to build is a Cracker Barrel

[John T Roberts]

This was what I was afraid was going to happen when the new developers came in from California and they said they wanted it to be "Disneyland". 

 

I don't know if you are aware, but the Public Affairs Committee at Historic Fort Worth helps the staff write the organization's responses to the Landmarks Commission and preservation cases that go before the other Boards and Commisisons, along with City Council.  My personal response to the sculpture is that it is too cheesy. 

[tamtagon]

^Should study the history of Knox Berry Farm, use that as a template for Stockyards expansion.... 

[Doohickie]

This us straight up Disney here. We have officially become like a roadside attraction at a truck stop outside Omaha.

There is plenty of "authentic Western heritage" in the area.  But when attracting visitors, kitschy and fun are also draws.  Don't be so stuffy.  Look at all the stuff around the Alamo in San Antonio.  It's as Disney and Roadside Attraction as you can get.  I remember four things from visiting San Antonio:  River Walk, Alamo, the Missions tour and the Buckhorn Museum, which is as kitschy as it gets.  Not everything needs to be "on brand" (in the case of the Stockyards, Western themed) in a historic district/tourist area.

[Doohickie]

^Should study the history of Knox Berry Farm, use that as a template for Stockyards expansion.... 

You mean "Knott's"?

[rriojas71]

 

This us straight up Disney here. We have officially become like a roadside attraction at a truck stop outside Omaha.

There is plenty of "authentic Western heritage" in the area.  But when attracting visitors, kitschy and fun are also draws.  Don't be so stuffy.  Look at all the stuff around the Alamo in San Antonio.  It's as Disney and Roadside Attraction as you can get.  I remember four things from visiting San Antonio:  River Walk, Alamo, the Missions tour and the Buckhorn Museum, which is as kitschy as it gets.  Not everything needs to be "on brand" (in the case of the Stockyards, Western themed) in a historic district/tourist area.

 

Yes I think Kitschy has a place and there is also plenty of Kitschy stuff already in the stockyards.  I'm not a fan of the Spur because it does feel like it should be in San Antonio because of their association with the Spurs of the NBA.  It is also overpowering and towers over the structure it's in front of.  That is my biggest gripe about it.  If it was more in scale to the building maybe it wouldn't be so bad.

[elpingüino]

Bud Kennedy reports that the chain has been closing locations in the area. 'World's largest spur' coming to Fort Worth's Rodeo Plaza despite Lone Spur Cafe's troubles

[John T Roberts]

Bud Kennedy reports in the Star-Telegram that Lone Spur Cafe has been closing other locations in the DFW Area.  After reading what he had to say, I am even more opposed to this sculpture than I was previously.  If they are having financial troubles, there's a good chance this restaurant won't last long, and then the spur will have no purpose, except to serve as more cheese.

[rriojas71]

^^I can't argue with that JTR

[tamtagon]

 

^Should study the history of Knox Berry Farm, use that as a template for Stockyards expansion.... 

You mean "Knott's"?

 

 

 

haha yes, Knotts

[John T Roberts]

Last night, I returned to the Stockyards to take more pictures at a leisurely pace.  I have been going through them tonight, and I have really taken some nice nighttime photographs of the area.  I will upload them soon.

[John T Roberts]

Last week, when I wished everyone a Merry Christmas, I posted a photograph of the Stockyards Christmas Tree.  I mentioned that I had gone to a party and afterwards, a friend of mine and I walked around a little bit.  She was a little pressed for time, so I didn't have a lot of time to frame the photographs that I took.  This Wednesday, I went back with a lot of time to set up some shots.  Since we don't have any nighttime photographs of the new developments on this thread, I thought I would post a mix of new and historic building photos.  Some of these shots have the Christmas decorations in them, but the lights in the Stockyards were very impressive this holiday season. 

 

This is the historic neon sign and entrance of Cattlemen's Steak House.

cattlemens by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

Hunter Brothers H3 Ranch neon and the Stockyards Hotel at Main & Exchange

H3ranchneon by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

Across Main Street is the historic Leddy's neon sign

leddys-neon by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

Heading east on Exchange Ave., you come across the entry gate.  This sign sits on the edge of a bridge that spans over Marine Creek.  The two stucco historic buildings housing Riscky's Steakhouse and Fincher's White Front Western Store were physically built on top of the bridge.  The bridge and the two buildings were completed in 1910.

stockyardssign-1 by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

Fincher's White Front Western Store (originally constructed as the Stockyards National Bank)

synb-night by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

Riscky's Steakhouse with its neon signs

saddle-night by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

The Coliseum was decked out with lights this holiday season

coliseum-1 by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

Exchange Ave. facade of the adaptive re-use of the Mule Barns

mulebarns-exchange-2 by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

Entrance to Mule Alley

mulealleyentrance-n1 by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

Back side of the entrance gates to Mule Alley with the Coliseum in the background

mulealleyentrance-rear-night by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

Mule Barn "A" in Mule Alley

mulealley-n2 by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

Tannahill's Tavern have all of their signs up

mulealley-n3 by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

mulealley-n4 by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

mulealley-n5 by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

The Marine Creek side of Second Rodeo Brewing

secondrodeo-n by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

Overall front of the Hotel Drover

drover-christmas-1 by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

Close up shot of 97 West entry and the terminus of the Mule Alley axis

drover-christmas-2 by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

The Backyard of the Hotel Drover had a Christmas Tree and every tree with lights in them.  The backside of the hotel is also outlined in lights.  You can see the Backyard from several vantage points to the west, south, and east.  From a distance it is very impressive.  I did take come pictures, but they contain a lot of white lights.  I will post them, if you want to see them, but you can get the drift of their decorations from the front of the building.

 

As I was leaving, I grabbed another shot of the entry sign, with a view to the west and the Stockyards Hotel in the background

exchangelookingwest by jtrobert, on Flickr

[John T Roberts]

I noticed the price, also.  I guess I should have posted it.  At least I caught photographic evidence of the price.

 

Thank you for the comment on the photographs.  They really added to the lights this year.  Clearfork and Cook Children's Hospital are nice, also.

[Jeriat]

This was... random. 

https://youtu.be/SjOPhFTNXTM

[rriojas71]

I was out in the Stockyards on Friday Night showing the new and improved Stockyards to a friend of mine who is from here but has lived in LA for 29 years and the whole of the Stockyards was packed.  People were using the ice rink, every section from Stockyards Station, Mule Alley, to W Exchange was vibrant and festive.  The Christmas lights throughout the district were amazing and really added some holiday ambiance as well.

 

It was such a fun time.

[John T Roberts]

As you can see from the photographs on my two visits to the Stockyards on Tuesday and Wednesday nights, there were quite a few people out on those non-weekend nights.

[John T Roberts]

How do you all feel about the Staff Report?  Do you think they are correct with their recommendation?

[JBB]

I want to be mad about the sign being denied because it seems a little ticky tack, but I get it.  At least it would pay tribute to the history of the area and not be a blatant ad for a tenant that could move out in a few years.

[Crestline]

I agree with the staff report. Painting a big mural onto the brick seems unneeded, but encroaching the parking lot an extra 10 feet into the pedestrian zone seems okay, to me anyway.

[Stadtplan]

Inside Drover ballroom:


Tannahill Lounge


Saunders Park / Riverwalk:


Tunnel under E. Exchange

[John T Roberts]

Nice shots, Nitixope. It was a fun and "different" tour today.  I should have brought my DSLR.  My cell phone pictures didn't turn out as nice as I would have liked.

[Stadtplan]

Here's a couple more photos from the Stockyards:

 

Cowtown Coliseum had its lights on for morning cleaning:

 

More riverwalk shots approaching the tunnel under E. Exchange:

 

 

Drover Ballroom being set-up for a wedding:

 

[ramjet]

Also, shout out to your pics, Nitixope.  Very nice.  I had a great time this morning.  Saw things I've never seen.  Although he was nice, the tour guide was not near as informative as John on the monthly downtown tours, but what can you expect from a guide from Dallas via Detroit.  I give him credit for effort.  It was also fun to hear where all the very many participants were from.  The group was very diverse, and quite nice.  Good energy in the group and throughout the Stockyards this morning.  I was struck by how crowded it was at 10am.   

[John T Roberts]

Thank you for the comment about my tours.  I will admit that it was a good group of people and it was interesting to see how diverse it was.  The Stockyards gets crowded pretty early, and this has been happening for quite some time.

[Stadtplan]

Thanks ramjet!  I thought the cowboy with the longhorns did an excellent job telling some of the history of the region.  Also, the cowboy setting up over the car, I bet in a smaller setting with a little more time to prepare his thoughts (completely blindsided with like a 100 people staring at him) I bet he had a bunch more knowledge to share too.  I'd love to have a redo this tour with John if was ever up for leading it and with about 50 fewer people.

 

Backstory: For those of you wondering, there was a FB invite that I found earlier this week for a Stockyards tour, which appeared to be hosted by a Dallas area historical group "Dallas-Texas History & Culture."  I sent it to John and ramjet knowing they liked these sort of events.  The gentleman the led the group was even shocked by the turnout, he said he usually gets 10-15 attendees I bet we had 50-60 today.  His heart was in the right place but with a group that large, there's certain dynamics that are hard to wrangle and there were quite a few missed opportunities to share some really important and interesting fine details about the area's history and culture as well as other noteworthy tidbits and factoids which comes only with years of study by people like our own John Roberts, Pete Charlton (R.I.P. djold1), and others like Hometown by Handlebar who have spent most of their lives gathering history and information on Fort Worth.  I figure at the least, if it gets me up off the couch, then I'm doing something worthwhile and like ramjet said, I saw a number of new things today. 

[Austin55]

That sounds like a nice turnout! There's clearly a lot of folks in FW passionate about history.

 

Lovely photos, all.

[John T Roberts]

I would be willing to lead a tour of the Stockyards.  We could do it on a Saturday. 

[John T Roberts]

The painted signs were approved on both the Armour Building and the Trinity Metro Building in Downtown.  The parking waiver on Armour was also approved.  I watched both cases from Landmarks tonight.

 

My next comment is regarding the parking in the Stockyards.  There is quite a bit of free street parking available on the west side of Main.  Several streets have parking that is allowed on them and they are free.  That's where I parked on Saturday.

 

Nitixope, your photographs turned out very nice from the tour.

[John T Roberts]

I will post my comments that I made to you available to the forum members.

 

1.  I think the W. Exchange sign does create a false sense of history.

2.  We don't need two signs alike in the Stockyards.  However, I do think a sign like this would draw more business to the west side of Main Street.

 

The staff reports are out and they recommend a continuance of 30 days for the over the street sign and a denial of the painted sign on the building.

[John T Roberts]

I was going to post the links when I had time, but you took care of it for me.

[Austin55]

I can't say I'm a fan of the proposed "W. Exchange" sign. 

[rriojas71]

I can't say I'm a fan of the proposed "W. Exchange" sign. 

Likewise.  It kinda takes away from the impact of the original sign.  

[Stadtplan]

I overlooked the fact that there's actually another sign near the other end of E. Exchange.  Maybe adding a third sign on the other end of W. Exchange isn't a big deal?  The only thing I don't like is if adding a sign on top of the hill on W. Exchange would in any way block the view down E. Exchange, that seems kind of annoying if it does.

 

 

Here's where the proposed sign would be located:

 

I did an overlay to show how that might feel looking towards E. Exchange down the hill:

 

[Austin55]

 

 

Record PV22-00291: 

Commercial Razing Permit

Record Status: Pending

 

Project Description:

Cowtown Coliseum - Arch Demo

Complete demotion of archway entrance into Rodeo Plaza and Porta Cache adjacent to warm up pens at Cowtown Coliseum

 

Are they referring to this structure?

 

 

 

Rodeo Plaza Archway demolition is going before the HCLC (filed 10/24/22):

https://accela.fortw...ShowInspection=

 

 

Sign is gone

[Stadtplan]

New rendering of the W. Exchange Sign for upcoming HCLC docket:

 

[John T Roberts]

The posts on the mixed use project at NE 29th and N. Main has been moved to the Northside Development Thread (Non-Stockyards).

[arch-image]

 

I'll pose the same questions to the Forum that I posed to John offline:

• Do you think the W. Exchange sign creates a false sense of history? 
• Do we really need two signs alike or is it a way to draw more business over there (on that side of Main St.)?

 

 

I am going to go a little different direction that while may not be what we like to think of from a historical preservation perspective, it is my view of the reality of the S-yds. There isn't anything much left historical, it has become noting more than tourist attraction with a bit of historical facilities and buildings scattered around. Sadly to some maybe, there are things going on over on that side of Main that will become an expansion of sorts with more shops and things on that side. So, do it now, do it later, it eventually makes sense as sort of a way marker to point people to a different area for people to go to.