Of the additions listed - security space, space for the video broadcast, executive session room, etc. - all necessities that were just forgotten? Again, I might concede that all of the due diligence in the world might have not revealed the floodway issue, but there's plenty here to show they went in half cocked.
Pier One Place
#451
Posted 14 February 2023 - 04:44 PM
#452
Posted 14 February 2023 - 06:13 PM
- arch-image likes this
#453
Posted 14 February 2023 - 08:20 PM
#454
Posted 14 February 2023 - 08:51 PM
Nitixope - Thank you posting that. I wont even go into how much heartburn I have over the cost escalations on this mess. I tend to agree with others, I think the city was afraid of missing out on this building and went in with minimal review and planning. Much this like the Maintenance repairs should have been determined prior to the purchase. How do we have this type of increase in personnel that was not already planned for? Perhaps decided to close another facility and move over here. IF that's the case, they should show the offset cost of selling the existing or delta in rents etc... to show only the NET increase in cost. As for the drainage issue, while I am absolutely dumbfounded how this didn't come up when the building was built I haven't figured out. That said, I do know it happens. I know of a project that went thru everything and when excavation began they found out there was 72" water force main from a nearby lake that clipped a corner of the property that literally fed the majority of the city! Everyone was shocked it didn't show up anywhere. City allowed moving into some of the setback areas so impact wasn't as big of deal. As crestline mentioned, I wonder if the title policy will cover any of this.
Only other thing is I feel like the numbers they have for selling property is ridiculous. I think the sell price of the library was stupid to. I have been working with some folks on a couple of sites downtown and they trend around $150 PSF which would bring this to more in the 35 million range, not 19 million, and why no value on the surface lots? I feel taxpayers are getting screwed and someone is getting sweetheart deals.
According to the Star-Telegram article, they did have several professionals walk the building and they did find several issues that were factored into the price of the building. Now that they own the building, they discovered that some of the problems are bigger than originally estimated. They apparently are also taking care of things that might be ok for now, but will need to be replaced or updated in the near future. By fixing those items now, they will be easier and cheaper than when the building is in use.
#455
Posted 14 February 2023 - 09:02 PM
#456
Posted 15 February 2023 - 07:55 PM
Nitixope - Thank you posting that. I wont even go into how much heartburn I have over the cost escalations on this mess. I tend to agree with others, I think the city was afraid of missing out on this building and went in with minimal review and planning. Much this like the Maintenance repairs should have been determined prior to the purchase. How do we have this type of increase in personnel that was not already planned for? Perhaps decided to close another facility and move over here. IF that's the case, they should show the offset cost of selling the existing or delta in rents etc... to show only the NET increase in cost. As for the drainage issue, while I am absolutely dumbfounded how this didn't come up when the building was built I haven't figured out. That said, I do know it happens. I know of a project that went thru everything and when excavation began they found out there was 72" water force main from a nearby lake that clipped a corner of the property that literally fed the majority of the city! Everyone was shocked it didn't show up anywhere. City allowed moving into some of the setback areas so impact wasn't as big of deal. As crestline mentioned, I wonder if the title policy will cover any of this.
Only other thing is I feel like the numbers they have for selling property is ridiculous. I think the sell price of the library was stupid to. I have been working with some folks on a couple of sites downtown and they trend around $150 PSF which would bring this to more in the 35 million range, not 19 million, and why no value on the surface lots? I feel taxpayers are getting screwed and someone is getting sweetheart deals.
According to the Star-Telegram article, they did have several professionals walk the building and they did find several issues that were factored into the price of the building. Now that they own the building, they discovered that some of the problems are bigger than originally estimated. They apparently are also taking care of things that might be ok for now, but will need to be replaced or updated in the near future. By fixing those items now, they will be easier and cheaper than when the building is in use.
Sorry but I just can't accept that. They budgeted 2.3 Million "for repairs" and now it's jumped by 12 Million! This is basically a huge part of my job and has been for over 30 years. Another 15 in General Construction before that. A bust like that is 100% inexcusable. If they added scope like increasing staff and needing more buildout I get it but this was "fixing" things, you account for that period. They didn't know there were lighting issues? Come on. I will even give them Flood Drainage issue, they relied on the title search and that's what you do. But the City flat out did NOT do their Due Diligence on inspecting the building. Frankly as a Ft Worth Taxpayer if you can't tell, I am Pissed! It's BS. Sorry, I will get off my soapbox. Management can delete if this is to angry of a response.
- txbornviking likes this
#457
Posted 15 February 2023 - 09:48 PM
And all I am doing is saying that according to the article, which people may or may not read, or can't read because they think that local journalism isn't worth paying for (my soapbox), that according to the city they believed that they did their due diligence and some things still caught them by surprise.
Whether or not the city hired the right people to do the walkthroughs, I will never know because I wasn't involved in the decision, and I don't care enough to put in the time to second guess everything our elected officials do. If I don't think they are doing a good job, then come election time I will vote for someone else. All I was pointing out is that according to the article, the city didn't go into the deal totally blind.
I am with Nitixope, if you buy something used, you never truly know what you've bought until you own it and start tearing in to it. When I bought my house, we knew it had foundation issues and factored that into the sale price. We didn't know until they excavated under the house that the plumbing had issues too. As someone who has never bought a multi-million dollar building, I have no idea if the dollar amount of the things they found after the sale is reasonable or not.
#458
Posted 16 February 2023 - 08:08 AM
And all I am doing is saying that according to the article, which people may or may not read, or can't read because they think that local journalism isn't worth paying for (my soapbox),
(Happily, in this case the article is from the Fort Worth Report, which is presently free to read without a subscription.)
#459
Posted 16 February 2023 - 08:10 PM
I am with Nitixope, if you buy something used, you never truly know what you've bought until you own it and start tearing in to it. When I bought my house, we knew it had foundation issues and factored that into the sale price. We didn't know until they excavated under the house that the plumbing had issues too. As someone who has never bought a multi-million dollar building, I have no idea if the dollar amount of the things they found after the sale is reasonable or not.
I do understand where your coming from, I bought my house, Built 1944, and about 9 mo's later the water main broke and I had water fountain shooting about 20' in the air, sadly not the fountain of youth, I get it stuff happens and you NEVER get it all on inspection because of any number of reasons. But to the point of your last sentence, I have been involved in buying and renovating multimillion dollar buildings and no, it is not reasonable in my opinion. I would LOVE to see what the breakdown of what the added 12 million is for. What did they think was salvageable that wound up not being. When I taught estimating for the Estimating Association we did a special class on renovations and I told them figure out what you think you can keep, then plan on half of that will not be salvageable. I think a lot of it is they looked at the building and thought 18 years old, a lot more would be in better shape than it was. I will stop beating the dead horse as they say on that one.
#460
Posted 16 February 2023 - 08:32 PM
I just noticed this in the above PowerPoint. I wonder they are pursuing LEED? It can be kind of expensive to get certified:
More about LEED if you are wondering:
LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) is the most widely used green building rating system in the world. Available for virtually all building types, LEED provides a framework for healthy, efficient, and cost-saving green buildings.
https://support.usgb...-certification-
- RD Milhollin likes this
#461
Posted 18 February 2023 - 11:11 PM
I would LOVE to see what the breakdown of what the added 12 million is for. What did they think was salvageable that wound up not being.
If anyone is interested in watching the City Council Work Session with the full new city hall update presentation and discussion, it starts at around 2:07:00 mark:
https://fortworthgov...60c225cd4d40a3c
#462
Posted 23 February 2023 - 08:40 PM
https://accela.fortw...ShowInspection=
#463
Posted 16 March 2023 - 11:26 AM
Record DS-22-0186:Drainage StudyRecord Status: Awaiting Client Reply
https://accela.fortw...ShowInspection=
Project Description:FTW City HallProposed City Hall Chambers and Parking GarageTotal Plat or Project Area (Acres): 11.8Land Disturbance Area (Acres): 6.18
There is some major road work on Forest Park Blvd near the new City Hall / Pier 1 bldg up to about the Tilley bridge. I'm assuming this is work being done to improve water drainage for the new city hall chamber addition.
#465
Posted 12 May 2023 - 08:15 AM
From our discussion about what's going to happen to FWTV in the Central Library thread....here's some of the AV space in the new council chambers, I'm assuming this will house FWTV production staff and equipment. This is Level 1 and located outside of the Pre-Council / Workroom.
On Level 2, there was a small AV booth outside of the Main Council Chambers, however, on the budget update presentation 2/7/23, this space room #2105 appears to be storage space now. The AV space shown here was from the 8/8/22 DDRB presentation drawings:
#466
Posted 03 June 2023 - 11:14 AM
#467
Posted 03 July 2023 - 09:31 AM
#468
Posted 03 July 2023 - 11:45 AM
You're guess is as good as mine but I can only assume that the current drainage pipes are not sufficient to keep the new city hall chamber from flooding
#470
Posted 03 July 2023 - 02:34 PM
Yeah, I didn't think this project had anything to do with Pier One/City Hall.
#471
Posted 03 July 2023 - 09:37 PM
So does this mean COFW is giving Burns and McDonnell the boot out of the new city hall and they're moving to 777 Main St.?
https://aca-prod.acc...ShowInspection=
#472
Posted 03 July 2023 - 10:13 PM
So does this mean COFW is giving Burns and McDonnell the boot out of the new city hall and they're moving to 777 Main St.?
https://aca-prod.acc...ShowInspection=
Project Description:Burns & McDonnellOffice remodelProject Description:Burns & McDonnellBusiness office RemodelProject Description:Burns & McDonnellOffice remodel; partial suite demo and build out
Yeah, I don't remember where, but it was said they would be leaving... funny enough, a little under year after I interviewed in that same tower, they said that they were there to stay. But they seemed unsure.
- Nitixope likes this
#473
Posted 06 July 2023 - 05:27 PM
Think the City said it would push all tenants out over time, no? Not sure if that's b/c City needs the space or some access control issue.
#474
Posted 06 July 2023 - 06:23 PM
Think the City said it would push all tenants out over time, no? Not sure if that's b/c City needs the space or some access control issue.
I'd imagine it makes renovation a heck of a lot easier not having any tenants, plus what you mentioned for access control and security. Just guessing, but there could be portions of the renovation where the whole building is offline for a period of time or certain systems offline and it could be a headache for everyone if there's some tenants still hanging on.
#475
Posted 26 July 2023 - 07:29 AM
Will be cool to see if they can complete this by end of 2024. Easement issues aside, the chamber’s design is nice and a positive reflection of modern Fort Worth.
- RD Milhollin and rriojas71 like this
#476
Posted 05 September 2023 - 09:30 AM
First pier has been set for new council chambers:
Edit - looks like the forum is trying to embed. Try this and take out space after vimeo.: https://vimeo. com/860286283/b8af1ffa77?
#479
Posted 18 October 2023 - 07:02 PM
Can someone remind me what is happening here with this drainage project? This is a major boring setup. I took these photos last night.
Whats that huge pipe on University Drive in Fort Worth? It wont be there much longer.
https://www.star-tel...e280649545.html
- roverone likes this
#481
Posted 30 October 2023 - 01:29 PM
"Details of Fort Worth’s new City Hall’s green space, parking revealed"
https://fortworthrep...rking-revealed/
- roverone likes this
#482
Posted 30 October 2023 - 02:18 PM
"green space" sure looks a lot like a parking lot in front of a parking garage....
#484
Posted 03 November 2023 - 01:17 PM
#485
Posted 03 November 2023 - 03:14 PM
It's on the side facing the Trinity River but will not be a public park according to the article.
#486
Posted 03 November 2023 - 08:22 PM
Greenspace. Meaning it will be green, and it will take up some space.
I don't think the city hall situation is exactly the same, but I think of these articles whenever I hear someone say greenspace.
https://www.andrewal...log20150914.php
https://www.strongto...-van-vorst-park
- RD Milhollin and txbornviking like this
#487
Posted 08 November 2023 - 09:09 AM
DDRB New Case
#489
Posted 15 December 2023 - 09:24 AM
https://aca-prod.acc...ShowInspection=
#490
Posted 17 December 2023 - 12:37 PM
Last Tuesday, channel 5 reported a street name change. The city wants to change the name of the street in front of city hall from Energy Way to Fort Worth Trail. My address is currently Energy Way, but I'm not sure if Braden on 5th is included in the change. The electric company still has my address in their system as Summit. Thinking about all the things I would have to change gives me a headache.
- RD Milhollin and Austin55 like this
#493
Posted 08 January 2024 - 01:54 PM
Last Tuesday, channel 5 reported a street name change. The city wants to change the name of the street in front of city hall from Energy Way to Fort Worth Trail. My address is currently Energy Way, but I'm not sure if Braden on 5th is included in the change. The electric company still has my address in their system as Summit. Thinking about all the things I would have to change gives me a headache.
I noticed this weekend that new signs are up.
#497
Posted 17 February 2024 - 05:58 PM
Still upset my proposal for a water slide from the roof of council chambers (or higher floor in the tower) to the river was evidently value engineered out.
I think that is still coming in a later phase
_____
New chambers building as seen from across the river
#498
Posted 17 February 2024 - 06:16 PM
Nice view. Thanks for posting. I'm not out and about enough.
#500
Posted 21 March 2024 - 02:21 PM
In scale next to those pickups parked onsite, the only thing I sort of wonder about facility is, should they have made this building bigger? I'm thinking not just council use but where do they have events for recognition of police officers / fire, ceremonies, press conferences etc?
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