15 replies to this topic

[JBB]

Wow. One of the best football games I've ever watched. Vince Young is a stud. White and Bush aren't too bad either.

[Wildcard]

Congratulations to the Longhorns on their national championship....Hook 'em, Horns!!!

[AEinsurancepal]

WOO HOO!!!!

[cjyoung]

VY was amazing!

[JBB]

I hope he does come back, but this might be his best year to enter the draft. Every publication and website story on the game has a headline that focuses on the fact that he carried the game. InVinceable, ConVincing Win, etc. With the publicity and the game fresh on everyone's mind, his stock is still going to be pretty high in April. Now, if he goes and does the same thing at this time next year, that would be okay too.

[safly]

He ain't goin anywhere. His BEST decision is to stay in Austin, learn MORE about being a pocket passer, and elevate them Horn's one more time (If he has got it in him), then enter the draft. VY is GREAT for BIG 12 football and College Football. IF the Houston Texans were not on the board for the #1 pick, NOBODY would be romancing the scenario. He is great for college football, but in the NFL this type of college style QB tend to lose their FREAKISH game, especially early in their careers. Case in point S.Young, Ty "Crazy Legs" Detmer, Doug "Give ME a Chance" Flutie, and Michael "Hat Trick" Vick. VY is AMAZING and I had hoped back in the Chris Simms yrs. that Brown would make him the STARTER, things could have been different that year and last year. Chance "Dropped STOCK" Mock was never an option beginning in '04. IMHO. Mack Brown had to BABY Simms back in the day, you don't have to represent like that for VY, so much respects to Vince, but it is best that he stay and SCARINGLY better himself. Wicked talent, but too green for the NFL game. Interesting to see what he does next year without Dave (Make me look good) Thomas and Michael (The Man) Huff.

Hey, Leinart didn't do too bad either facing the #5 overall defense in the country. I'll take 29 of 40 and 579 yards over the Horns any day. Bad coaching decisions late in the game GAVE a platform for Vince to deja vu that UT v. THE OSU game all over again. Give him enough time and decent field position against the #28 overall defensive team in the country, PURELY unstoppable.

BTW, the last time the TROJANS previously lost with their offense on the field with more than a minute left, was about 3 years ago. This stat HEAVILY supports Leinart's STOCK in leading that 35 game winning streak run. Numerous late game come from behind victories (with some time). NFL coaches and players love that stat. People tend to forget that he did come from behind against a STOUT TEXAS "D". But SC's defense showed their weakness against the TEXAS run. Kept SC in the game for a while, but lost ground.

My TOP 15 draft pick's (if Senior, or foregoing last year of eligibility)

#1 BUSH, R (TOO Potent to pass up, will aide in Texans offensive spread, special teams and short/quick route receiving. Carr is a work in progress with an excellent arm slot and just needs a little Reggie Bush for a push)
#2 White, L (A. Brooks is still a decent QB and should be healthy for next year. No 1,000 yd. rusher or receiver this year for the NO. Bigger Bo Jackson prototype, maybe days of EARL w/ the AINT'S. Lost some close games this year, need a RB and they won't get RBush. NFL prototype N and S Running FORCE. Will find success early on. Psst, has GREAT HANDS too.)
#3 Leinart, M (Norm Chow will make him a CHAMP again. Knows his system and demands. The majority of Titans losses came from a 6 points or less deficit. They really need a better TD effeciency rating. Should be ready to hit Guenther (former SC TEnd), Scaife (Texas Ex Big TE target), Bennet (Pac-10 rival talented WR) and Sloan Thomas (Texas Ex talented WR).
#4 Young, V (Pennington is finished, unless Young moves to BIG NFL WReceiver? Big Market, big PLAYER, and unlike NO, NYJets will know how to use a healthy QB. Testaverde will help guide the young lad. Offense was outplayed all year long.)
#5 Hawk, AJ (Need GREAT linebacking core in their division. Awesome instinctive player, a Packer mold.)
#6,7 Ngata, H (Rigth back in the West Coast, big lineman force)
#6,7 Wright, R (Another big def. force with huge upside. Both gold coast teams need that)
#8 Holmes, Santonio (Love that first name. Buffs need both verticality speed and a special teams threat.)
#9 Bing, D (Lions need a person who brings the lumber, can protect a deep threat and shorten the sidelines.)
#10 Williams, DeAngelo (Smokin speed, AZ has none. Period.)
#11 Huff, M (Another heavy hitter from TEXAS, may be traded up for Cowboys. STL will welcome him)
#12 Wroten, C (A sleeper: A Bonecrusher from LSU is a necessary force to improve the Browns T-N-T)
#13 Hali, T (Ravens hold MUCH def. talent up the middle, but a Hali addition is a perfect fit.)
#14 Bing, D (Philly has some STOUT DEF, but needs a BIG SIZE HARD-Hittin def. back with great closing speed to compete again in their division.)
#15 Thomas, D (What he did for Young at UT, he can surely do for Vick. Open up the field. Instinctive.)

Pssst, if Vince Young forgoes the draft this year, Houston may still have a chance for him NEXT YEAR. Bush and Young in the backfield, OMG!

That's all for now.

[Keller Pirate]

Well, Vince went into the draft. I think it was the smart move for him to make. It would have been classy to stay another year but as Leinert found out at USC there are no guarantees and striking while you are hot is the best move for his personal future.

[safly]

Well, with Leinart staying one more year, it did not hurt him personally or stock wise AT ALL. Young was never projected until the Texans got on the board, and until that FREAKISH display at the Rose Bowl. It is much too soon to tell if leaving early will affect his game in the NFL down the road. I just do not see him NFL READY for another 3 years. NFL game is too fast, his arm slot and release is too slow, right now. But he can be molded into the complete NFL QB, one day. It just won't happen in Houston for obvious reasons (Bush) or New Orleans (no great QB coach).

Leinart knew he had no guarantees going into this year, that is why he took on the challenge and passed on the potential #1 pick overall, to get the college game and experience out of his system, to really appreciate what kind of indelible mark to leave for the university and fanbase. Now, he can go on and look forward to a lasting NFL career. He did leave SC with quite a season that has shown great improved leadership and improved skills. If Vince stayed one more year and proved healthy, he should be at Leinart's level by next years draft time, even without a BCS bid. Either way, the iron is still hot for Vince, nobody can take that Rose Bowl performance away from him except for Vince. It too is hot for White, Bush, and Leinart.

I still think Vince has more to prove at the college level, like defending the crown (that of which Leinart did very well, but fell just short of completing) and improving on his leadership skills. Leinart still outplayed the Horns and Young, but just ran out of time. If there was 20 more seconds and a timeout left, it would have been a completely different story. Also, a working play review monitor would have helped too.

[pnewburn]

safly, you are most certainly the only person in the world watched that game and thinks that Leinart outplayed Young. Not that he didn't have a good game, but I've heard at least a couple of people say that Vince had the best game of any college player ever. And one of those people was longhorn hater kirk herbestreet, so it's not like it's just his old peewee coach and mom saying these things.

[safly]

First of all, Kirk Herbstreet is a JOKE!

He is just on ESPN because he looks nothing like Lee Corso.

And many of people I know in the ESPN circles will say the same. They aren't soothsayers, but they do provide some sort of entertainment, to both genders. He kind of keeps Corso in check with his display of candor and style.

Leinart had a more grueling task at hand than Young had ALL year, with the possible exception of THE Ohio State Univ. And you saw what OSU did to Vince in that game. He got torn up, but prevailed.

Leinart was 29 of 41 with 365 yds against the #5 defense in the country.
Young was 30 of 40 with 267 yds against the #28 defense.
Bush ran the ball well (avg.) White ran like he stole somethin too. Both White and Bush caught the ball all night for much yardage.

What did Young do? He ran the ball all night, basically taking what the defense gave him (tight coverage), loose rush defense. He had no running backs to share the running offense effort. Leinart had to. Young wouldn't be the first player to rush for more than 100 yards in a game against SC this year. Basically, the game was a poor display of defense on both sides, hence both teams had over 500 yards a piece.

Besides, it is 3 times easier to run the ball from a QB position(in college) than a head on RB or FB position, so with his amazing speed Vince will get 8 yards a pop. Simple math on behalf of the Horns, and they controlled the clock well in the final minute. The advantage was of course on the Texas side because of the compounded mistake of SC coaching to call timeouts in the 2nd half and last 20 seconds of the game, not having Bush in on the play for 4th and 2, and creating a play that would have Bush catch the ball and head to the sidelines after a first down and 15 seconds left. HELLO, the clock STOPS after first down.

As a QB scout, I would say that both Leinart and Young had outstanding games. But based on the circumstance and performance of both QB's, if you were to place their skills, play calling, performance and adjustments to the NFL style game. Leinart would win hands down. You just don't SIMPLY run for 250 yards(Young) against an NFL team in a championship setting. I can't recall ever seeing a game where one has since the NFL's existence, and to say that Young will do that in the NFL is just not believable no matter who tells it to whom.

Oh, and Young had how many TD passes that game against the #28 defense in the country?

Leinart still outplayed the Horns and Young, but just ran out of time. If there was 20 more seconds and a timeout left, it would have been a completely different story.

And I still stand behind that observation. What took Young and the Horns 10 plays and 1:15 to score the game winner, it took Leinart and the Trojans less plays and less time to score TWICE just moments before. Now that is efficiency.

Others would agree too:

Leinart is still brilliant.


Even Sam Keller of ASU had a better game against USC, WITH 5 INT's!

[Yossarian]

Leinart is very good. His style also fits the NFL game better. I will defer to Dan Jenkins as to who was better in the championship game.

As to Young's decision to go pro, it is the better one in light of his playing style and stock today. A senior season exposes his style (much more so than Leinart's) to an injury that would literally cripple his ability to get a fat contract up front. In the end, that is what he will get now whether he is able to deliver at the pro level or not.

I liked your comment about Leinart running out of time safly. I am curious if you know that you have actually paraphrased something said about a Texas quarterback 60 years ago.

Bobby "Layne never lost a game...time just ran out on him." -Doak Walker, team-mate in high school and pro

[cjyoung]

First of all, Kirk Herbstreet is a JOKE!

He is just on ESPN because he looks nothing like Lee Corso.

And many of people I know in the ESPN circles will say the same. They aren't soothsayers, but they do provide some sort of entertainment, to both genders. He kind of keeps Corso in check with his display of candor and style.

Leinart had a more grueling task at hand than Young had ALL year, with the possible exception of THE Ohio State Univ. And you saw what OSU did to Vince in that game. He got torn up, but prevailed.

Leinart was 29 of 41 with 365 yds against the #5 defense in the country.
Young was 30 of 40 with 267 yds against the #28 defense.
Bush ran the ball well (avg.) White ran like he stole somethin too. Both White and Bush caught the ball all night for much yardage.

What did Young do? He ran the ball all night, basically taking what the defense gave him (tight coverage), loose rush defense. He had no running backs to share the running offense effort. Leinart had to. Young wouldn't be the first player to rush for more than 100 yards in a game against SC this year. Basically, the game was a poor display of defense on both sides, hence both teams had over 500 yards a piece.

Besides, it is 3 times easier to run the ball from a QB position(in college) than a head on RB or FB position, so with his amazing speed Vince will get 8 yards a pop. Simple math on behalf of the Horns, and they controlled the clock well in the final minute. The advantage was of course on the Texas side because of the compounded mistake of SC coaching to call timeouts in the 2nd half and last 20 seconds of the game, not having Bush in on the play for 4th and 2, and creating a play that would have Bush catch the ball and head to the sidelines after a first down and 15 seconds left. HELLO, the clock STOPS after first down.

As a QB scout, I would say that both Leinart and Young had outstanding games. But based on the circumstance and performance of both QB's, if you were to place their skills, play calling, performance and adjustments to the NFL style game. Leinart would win hands down. You just don't SIMPLY run for 250 yards(Young) against an NFL team in a championship setting. I can't recall ever seeing a game where one has since the NFL's existence, and to say that Young will do that in the NFL is just not believable no matter who tells it to whom.

Oh, and Young had how many TD passes that game against the #28 defense in the country?

Leinart still outplayed the Horns and Young, but just ran out of time. If there was 20 more seconds and a timeout left, it would have been a completely different story.

And I still stand behind that observation. What took Young and the Horns 10 plays and 1:15 to score the game winner, it took Leinart and the Trojans less plays and less time to score TWICE just moments before. Now that is efficiency.

Others would agree too:

Leinart is still brilliant.


Even Sam Keller of ASU had a better game against USC, WITH 5 INT's!

Safly is right. Matt played better as a NFL-type pocket passer. Vince was the best running back in the stadium. The bottom line is that Vince is going to have to learn how to avoid getting hit like a running back in the NFL. The best way to do that is to become a better pocket passer. Else, he'll get hurt every year like Ron Mexico in Atlanta. Somehow, I think Vince will figure it out.

[safly]

Watchu know about RON MEXICO?

As for the paraphrasing, I guess it was somewhere in the back of my mind. Bobby Layne (Highland Park standout) and Doak Walker were just PHENOMENAMENAMENAL! The MAN played TAILBACK in HS! with Doak! How stout was that offense? When other QB's couldn't wait to put on the hip pads, thigh pads and helmet guards, he wore none of that. Robert Lawrence Layne was Mr. FOOTBALL!

I still think that V Young has made a mistake by not maturing his game one more year at the collegiate level. It will take too long for him to adapt those "necessary" skills and understand an NFL bonafide playbook (which UT does not run) at the same time. There are alot of collegiate players who had the game of their careers at the championship level, up their stock and just not "MAKE IT HAPPEN" at the next level. I think he has too much to figure out about a Full Package Pro Offensive scheme for a first rounder. UNLESS he becomes a WR?

[cjyoung]

UNLESS he becomes a WR?

...or tight end.

[safly]

UNLESS he becomes a WR?

...or tight end.

I've gots to disagree with ya on that one. If he goes in at TE, then you can guarantee that the offense is NOT running to his side. YOUNG CAN'T BLOCK!

Now if he can catch, then he can bring it like WR Mike Williams (former SC, now with Detroit) style.