Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Future of the Central Library


  • Please log in to reply
180 replies to this topic

#101 Crestline

Crestline

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 559 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arlington Heights

Posted 29 April 2023 - 06:19 AM

I still think it would be cool to relocate the downtown library into the old city hall building; I wonder if that's possible. 

Maybe it can go into the old City Hall?

Which one...?

 

The one and only!

 

J4wAsrt.png



#102 Doohickie

Doohickie

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,007 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Hills

Posted 01 May 2023 - 11:05 AM

Think big:  The old T&P Warehouse.  As a warehouse, if the structure is sound it should be more than able to handle the weight of the books.  (Maybe the recent structural inspection is linked to the change of direction?)


My blog: Doohickie

#103 rriojas71

rriojas71

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,496 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belmont Terrace - Historic North Side
  • Interests:Real Estate, RE Development, Geography, Team Sports, Restaurants, Urban Exploring, Gaming, Travel, History

Posted 01 May 2023 - 11:14 AM

Think big:  The old T&P Warehouse.  As a warehouse, if the structure is sound it should be more than able to handle the weight of the books.  (Maybe the recent structural inspection is linked to the change of direction?)

Thinking Big does not include the T&P Warehouse because it is privately owned by someone who has shown little interest in actually developing the property.  



#104 Doohickie

Doohickie

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,007 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Hills

Posted 01 May 2023 - 11:15 AM

Yep, I get it, but the city structural inspection might indicate a change of direction.

 

 

I can dream, can't I?


My blog: Doohickie

#105 rriojas71

rriojas71

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,496 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belmont Terrace - Historic North Side
  • Interests:Real Estate, RE Development, Geography, Team Sports, Restaurants, Urban Exploring, Gaming, Travel, History

Posted 01 May 2023 - 11:20 AM

Yep, I get it, but the city structural inspection might indicate a change of direction.

 

 

I can dream, can't I?

Sure.  i will dream with you.



#106 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,421 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dirty suburbs

Posted 01 May 2023 - 12:24 PM

Can't remember if it was here or elsewhere, but I've questioned before if the library needs to be so large.  With the emergence of electronic resources, there's a lot of opportunity to trim space.  When I took some classes at UNT Dallas several years ago, the library was essentially a computer lab.



#107 Jeriat

Jeriat

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,064 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SWFW

Posted 01 May 2023 - 04:05 PM

 

I still think it would be cool to relocate the downtown library into the old city hall building; I wonder if that's possible. 

Maybe it can go into the old City Hall?

Which one...?

 

The one and only!

 

J4wAsrt.png

 

 

So... two things:

- on a personal note, I'd like for this to be demolished and used for highrise/garage space. 

and;

- There may be a case in which this space may be too big for the library, as well. I think Austin had an older post here that referenced this space as a potential library or one of the empty lots next to it, but can't find it. 

But I'll throw something out there. Is this still vacant? Because every time I walk by, those upper floors still look empty, to me. Maybe this could be a temporary library, just as long as you-know-who doesn't have a problem with one of her (unnecessary) art galleries on the 1st floor being replaced with something more, you know... useful.  

trust.jpg

 

Man, I've really been trying to find uses for The Cassidy a lot on this forum.


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#108 rriojas71

rriojas71

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,496 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belmont Terrace - Historic North Side
  • Interests:Real Estate, RE Development, Geography, Team Sports, Restaurants, Urban Exploring, Gaming, Travel, History

Posted 02 May 2023 - 11:05 AM

At the Cassidy location, the library would be in a high traffic area and because the library will always draw in the Homeless I just don't think the city will go for that.  It's also a privately owned building that they city would have to spend money on to lease.  The current City Hall, not Pier 1, is already a public use structure and is owned by the city.  It just makes more sense to me that the library could go in it.  It already looks Library-ish and with the open atrium it fills like it would be a no-brainer.



#109 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,657 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Southside

Posted 02 May 2023 - 12:42 PM

I think the central lobby of the current City Hall would make an excellent library, it just feels right. That said, I have to agree with the above and say that it seems silly to sell off the library becuase the land is too valuable and the building too dumpy, when the same could be said for the City Hall site. Unless there's some sort of strong preservation movement that steps up and stops the Edward Durell Stone-designed City Hall from being demolished.
 

I think a really cool location would be at the Northeast corner of Commerce and 14th, where the current Convention Center Garage is. At that location, you could tie it in with A&M/UTAFW, and maybe work out a parking arrangement with a new hotel development that could be built to the North. 



#110 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,421 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dirty suburbs

Posted 02 May 2023 - 02:16 PM

Is the city still interested in selling the current city hall?  Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly that they have said they're still going to need the space.



#111 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,657 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Southside

Posted 02 May 2023 - 02:29 PM

I thought it was going to be the new PD Central Division HQ. 



#112 Urbndwlr

Urbndwlr

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,667 posts
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 03 May 2023 - 05:01 PM

At the Cassidy location, the library would be in a high traffic area and because the library will always draw in the Homeless I just don't think the city will go for that.  It's also a privately owned building that they city would have to spend money on to lease.  The current City Hall, not Pier 1, is already a public use structure and is owned by the city.  It just makes more sense to me that the library could go in it.  It already looks Library-ish and with the open atrium it fills like it would be a no-brainer.

Good point about the appeal to homeless residents of library restrooms. 

While I've never experienced homelessness, I'd guess the main issue is having a clean, reliably open and available RR, and places to sit peacefully.

So, why not provide a really good substitute for the services/facilities needed by those who lack housing?  One that provides even better facilities w/ features that really take into account the needs of those who are spending lots of time outside?  Realize this wouldnt be a full resource center necessarily but perhaps pleasant places to sit, read, safely change clothes, maybe even do a bit of laundry (lots of options could add).  Likely would have to somehow avoid sleeping areas or would become shelter.  And would require surveilance and supervision to make sure stays clean enough.  Could take this to another thread.



#113 ramjet

ramjet

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,075 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Downtown Fort Worth

Posted 03 May 2023 - 06:01 PM

 

At the Cassidy location, the library would be in a high traffic area and because the library will always draw in the Homeless I just don't think the city will go for that.  It's also a privately owned building that they city would have to spend money on to lease.  The current City Hall, not Pier 1, is already a public use structure and is owned by the city.  It just makes more sense to me that the library could go in it.  It already looks Library-ish and with the open atrium it fills like it would be a no-brainer.

Good point about the appeal to homeless residents of library restrooms. 

While I've never experienced homelessness, I'd guess the main issue is having a clean, reliably open and available RR, and places to sit peacefully.

So, why not provide a really good substitute for the services/facilities needed by those who lack housing?  One that provides even better facilities w/ features that really take into account the needs of those who are spending lots of time outside?  Realize this wouldnt be a full resource center necessarily but perhaps pleasant places to sit, read, safely change clothes, maybe even do a bit of laundry (lots of options could add).  Likely would have to somehow avoid sleeping areas or would become shelter.  And would require surveilance and supervision to make sure stays clean enough.  Could take this to another thread.

 

Great idea, Urbndwlr!  There's actually a well developed precedent for this idea in San Antonio called Haven for Hope. I got to tour Haven for Hope a couple of times in my career with Travis County.  Austin just didn't have an acceptable tract of land to replicate the concept that wasn't already dubbed for by developers.  I could think of a couple of places in Fort Worth.

 

https://www.havenforhope.org



#114 Crestline

Crestline

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 559 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arlington Heights

Posted 04 May 2023 - 07:11 AM

Good point about the appeal to homeless residents of library restrooms. 

While I've never experienced homelessness, I'd guess the main issue is having a clean, reliably open and available RR, and places to sit peacefully.

So, why not provide a really good substitute for the services/facilities needed by those who lack housing?  One that provides even better facilities w/ features that really take into account the needs of those who are spending lots of time outside?  Realize this wouldnt be a full resource center necessarily but perhaps pleasant places to sit, read, safely change clothes, maybe even do a bit of laundry (lots of options could add).  Likely would have to somehow avoid sleeping areas or would become shelter.  And would require surveilance and supervision to make sure stays clean enough.  Could take this to another thread.

Great idea, Urbndwlr!  There's actually a well developed precedent for this idea in San Antonio called Haven for Hope. I got to tour Haven for Hope a couple of times in my career with Travis County.  Austin just didn't have an acceptable tract of land to replicate the concept that wasn't already dubbed for by developers.  I could think of a couple of places in Fort Worth.

 

https://www.havenforhope.org

 

Are you two advocating for a new downtown library facility to provide expanded homeless shelter services? If so, I don't agree. I think that both functions are legitimate aims of city government but that they're not compatible with each other in a single structure. 



#115 ramjet

ramjet

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,075 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Downtown Fort Worth

Posted 04 May 2023 - 10:54 AM

Just to clarify, I'm not advocating a library/homeless center partnership.  I brought up Haven for Hope because it is a complex that meets homeless people where they are.  If they just want a safe place to pitch a tent outdoors, that space is available.  It has clean restrooms, medical clinics, even boarding spaces and vets for pets.  If someone is ready to move into housing, it has graduated levels of programming that aim to place homeless people ultimately into permanent supportive housing, which is on-site.  Something like that would not be feasible on the library site or in conjunction with a new library site.  I just brought it up as an alternative because of the notion that our downtown library apparently has become a place for the homeless to access clean rest rooms and have resting places.



#116 johnfwd

johnfwd

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,288 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:southwest
  • Interests:Running, bicycling, bowling, nightclub life, science, technology.

Posted 11 May 2023 - 08:42 AM

Here's an update from Fort Worth Inc.

 

https://fortworthinc...2026E7643790G2W



#117 Nitixope

Nitixope

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,868 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth, TX
  • Interests:Biking, Photography, Music, Bass Guitar, Architecture, Construction

Posted 11 May 2023 - 08:56 AM

Here's an update from Fort Worth Inc.

 

https://fortworthinc...2026E7643790G2W

 

"Cooke said the city has looked at everything from 12,000 square feet to 200 square feet,"

 

I wonder if this is a typo and they meant 200,000 SQFT?  200 SQFT is the size of a 14'x14' bedroom or office.  It's literally just a desk and a single computer sitting in a small storefront in Sundance Square....'here's your downtown library folks....as you can see, we've downsized.'



#118 johnfwd

johnfwd

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,288 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:southwest
  • Interests:Running, bicycling, bowling, nightclub life, science, technology.

Posted 11 May 2023 - 09:20 AM

 

Here's an update from Fort Worth Inc.

 

https://fortworthinc...2026E7643790G2W

 

"Cooke said the city has looked at everything from 12,000 square feet to 200 square feet,"

 

I wonder if this is a typo and they meant 200,000 SQFT?  200 SQFT is the size of a 14'x14' bedroom or office.  It's literally just a desk and a single computer sitting in a small storefront in Sundance Square....'here's your downtown library folks....as you can see, we've downsized.'

 

I can't understand why the city would close the library without having a new location to open for patrons? I'm guessing the city got a purchase offer from Dart the city couldn't refuse.

 

Also, just an observation, if the current library is demolished, will that include the sidewalk that has the imprinted names of donors?



#119 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,421 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dirty suburbs

Posted 11 May 2023 - 09:41 AM

I would assume they meant 20,000, not 200.  Just a typo.



#120 Nitixope

Nitixope

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,868 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth, TX
  • Interests:Biking, Photography, Music, Bass Guitar, Architecture, Construction

Posted 11 May 2023 - 10:04 AM

Proposed new downtown library design reveal. 

Budget recap: $500 +/- $100. 

Schedule start: sometime next week

Schedule end: sometime in June 2023

 

free-community-library-take-book-share-b



#121 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,421 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dirty suburbs

Posted 11 May 2023 - 10:30 AM

And since they will fail to maintain it, by 2025, it will need $10,000 in repairs and a public/private partnership to survive.



#122 jmcgee

jmcgee

    Newcomer

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 14 posts
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 11 May 2023 - 04:01 PM

lost in all this is the FWTV operation housed in the northwest corner of the library shell.  In there, a studio, editing suites, fiber connections to to Convention Center, Will Rogers, Spectrum, current Cit Hall.Storage of equipment used fro remote events,  

 

Very little planning has gone into moving this operation.  At this stage, from what I hear, it will go off the air when FWTV is moved out.  Not enough time to engage a integrator to move all of this. 

 

And this was a purpose built space, what that operation will get will be unused office space somewhere.



#123 Nitixope

Nitixope

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,868 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth, TX
  • Interests:Biking, Photography, Music, Bass Guitar, Architecture, Construction

Posted 11 May 2023 - 04:47 PM

For some reason I thought FWTV had space allocated in the new Council Chambers Building under construction. I either saw it in the floor plans or there was mention of it in the pptx presentation where they discussed the revised budget.

#124 Nitixope

Nitixope

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,868 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth, TX
  • Interests:Biking, Photography, Music, Bass Guitar, Architecture, Construction

Posted 11 May 2023 - 04:54 PM

For some reason I thought FWTV had space allocated in the new Council Chambers Building under construction. I either saw it in the floor plans or there was mention of it in the pptx presentation where they discussed the revised budget.

Im mobile right now but its mentioned in the Council Chambers presentation from the Pier One thread. My eyes couldnt read the floor plans on my phone but I will try and zoom in on my computer later if I can ID the space off of the chambers.

0YAnSJC.jpg

#125 Nitixope

Nitixope

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,868 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth, TX
  • Interests:Biking, Photography, Music, Bass Guitar, Architecture, Construction

Posted 12 May 2023 - 08:16 AM

Posting drawings of AV space in the Pier One thread: https://www.fortwort...pic=32&p=145904



#126 jmcgee

jmcgee

    Newcomer

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 14 posts
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 13 May 2023 - 07:03 AM

FWTV has two spaces currently.  A larger space in the library building and a smaller space at current CIty Hall.  That space has two control rooms and tech room.   That is the space that is being provided at new City Council Chambers. Not the larger space that has the studio remote equipment storage, staff offices, Master Control facility.



#127 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,657 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Southside

Posted 31 May 2023 - 04:09 PM

The library has officially been sold: https://news.yahoo.c...-213909240.html



#128 elpingüino

elpingüino

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,441 posts

Posted 09 June 2023 - 05:28 AM

This Fort Worth Report article suggests that the new development on Third Street could still house the library.

Residential, office, retail expected to fill former downtown Fort Worth library space

As we saw in the listing last year, FW required the development to include a new space for the library for several years. This article says the requirement limited some potential buyers but Dart Interests was on board with the library space. The local VP of JLL said "We don't know if that's what the city wants to do, but that's an available option."

#129 Presidio Interests

Presidio Interests

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 38 posts
  • Location:Cultural District

Posted 21 June 2023 - 10:31 PM

If the financial resources available to create the new public library are insufficient to create something excellent, it seems wise to consider a two-step solution:

Step 1: Immediate/near term:  create new downtown library in an existing building, maybe within 200 Texas City Hall building.

Step 2: Longer term: save/raise the funds, design and create an excellent long-term library. 

 

The long-term library could very well be on the old City Hall property.  Assuming the City is obligated to keep using the 200 Texas St. property for public/civic use, that building or site seems like it could accommodate a combination of scenarios and uses including:

- library in existing structure

- library in new addition to existing structure [would likely require removal of part of existing structure]

- library in a new free-standing structure [would require removing part or all of existing structure]

- park/garden space [including rooftop if retain existing structure]

- complimentary City office uses possibly including police admin office

 

The old City Hall seems like an opportunity to add new park space.  Depending on how the building and site are used would drive how much park space would be possible.

 

I do think the old City Hall could be retrofitted for a good library, but I'm struggling to picture an excellent one in there. 

If we put the library in the existing building, both the northern and southern ends of the site could accommodate new small park spaces.

 

If we are eventually able to design and fund a truly excellent Downtown Library + other uses, the bar would be high to justify the additional expense and building sacrifice, both architecturally and historically.

In my opinion, when someone tears down a good or significant building, they have a responsibility to replace it with something better and more significant.  The bar would be pretty high for the old City Hall.

 

Still, I can imagine new, extremely well-designed library + other uses built on the northern half of the site.  The building would be roughly 4-5 floors tall with high floor-to-floor heights and abundant natural light.  The upper floors would have outdoor terraces with heavy vegetation.  All or some of the terraces would connect downward with a series of wide, cascading stairs and planted terraces.  Those stairs and terraces would ultimately flow into a park space on the southern half of the site.  The stairs and terraces should be inviting so a lot of people elect to climb them and use them to sit, talk with friends or read, all overlooking the park space.



#130 Crestline

Crestline

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 559 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arlington Heights

Posted 25 June 2023 - 05:37 AM

I do think the old City Hall could be retrofitted for a good library, but I'm struggling to picture an excellent one in there. 

 

I agree it could be retrofitted for a good library, but why not also an excellent one? Does the 200 Texas old City Hall building lack the raw square footage to be an excellent library, or is the existing floor plan incompatible somehow?



#131 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,657 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Southside

Posted 30 June 2023 - 02:46 PM

Just a few hours left of the "old" library. I stopped by for one last visit earlier this week.

 

XG8n7In.jpg



#132 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,657 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Southside

Posted 01 July 2023 - 04:26 PM

End of an era. 

 

i0geq8l.jpg



#133 Nitixope

Nitixope

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,868 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth, TX
  • Interests:Biking, Photography, Music, Bass Guitar, Architecture, Construction

Posted 01 July 2023 - 10:32 PM

Thats a cool photo Austin.

#134 steave

steave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 231 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bryant Irvin + Vickery

Posted 01 July 2023 - 11:13 PM

Maybe what FW could do is either lease storefront space or put a small library in an existing city building downtown. Like the little UP library that is in North Park Mall. That would give the CBD a library, technically, and more or less make that matter over with. And also fill some downtown space with a live activity.  I dunno, what would it cost to expand the Northside or SW library? It seems like it would be better if a more accessibly located library that could attract more patrons could become functionally the new central library.

 

Another thought is they are spending a lot of money to redo the community art center. There's space in front of the parking garage, which is IIRC free and available to patrons when there isn't a Dickies Arena event and is empty most of the time. A library there would fit the new vision for what libraries are supposed to be as physical books become less important. It would compliment and synergize with the arts center and everything else in the immediate area perfectly. I'm imaging something like a two-story glass box facing Gendy Street with a bright, colorful kids space with stuff for them to climb on, and then study areas and materials shelves on the floor above. On the garage side there would be a bunch of rooms.



#135 RD Milhollin

RD Milhollin

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,945 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 02 July 2023 - 12:00 PM

I am still trying to figure out why the former city hall building would not make a great central library. There is great access, parking available close by at the west Convention Center garage, good potential future street-level transit east-west along 10th/9th streets and north-south along Throckmorton/Jennings. Presumably there is sufficient high-speed internet access for public computer stations, lots of reinforced floors once containing filing cabinets in office/cubicle space on several floors for book collections and reference, an excellent auditorium for library sponsored lectures and presentations, and space for a gallery to host traveling exhibits of interest to the public. Not sure if there would be additional space for the collection that used to be in Fire Station #1 adjacent to one of the Bass Sundance Towers parking garages. Once the clutter is cleared out the ground floor the old city hall is striking in it's design, If I remember correctly from before the city tried to centralize departments there. I think the indoor fountain was removed several years ago... From the design I would guess the building is naturally shaded from sunlight, that is good for books and for cooling bills. Mature trees surround the building... What am I missing?



#136 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,421 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dirty suburbs

Posted 02 July 2023 - 12:32 PM

They have already made other plans for the space.



#137 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,657 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Southside

Posted 02 July 2023 - 12:53 PM

I am still trying to figure out why the former city hall building would not make a great central library. There is great access, parking available close by at the west Convention Center garage, good potential future street-level transit east-west along 10th/9th streets and north-south along Throckmorton/Jennings. Presumably there is sufficient high-speed internet access for public computer stations, lots of reinforced floors once containing filing cabinets in office/cubicle space on several floors for book collections and reference, an excellent auditorium for library sponsored lectures and presentations, and space for a gallery to host traveling exhibits of interest to the public. Not sure if there would be additional space for the collection that used to be in Fire Station #1 adjacent to one of the Bass Sundance Towers parking garages. Once the clutter is cleared out the ground floor the old city hall is striking in it's design, If I remember correctly from before the city tried to centralize departments there. I think the indoor fountain was removed several years ago... From the design I would guess the building is naturally shaded from sunlight, that is good for books and for cooling bills. Mature trees surround the building... What am I missing?

 

I've been back and forth on this in my head. There are a lot of pros and cons.

 

+ You'd save the Edward Durrell Stone building, an nice piece of period architecture from a famous architect of the time.

- You'd save the Edward Durrell Stone building, which is brutalist and has other, similar issues that 500 W 3rd has (old, flooding, poorly laid out). 

 

+ You are re-using an existing building, which would save taxpayer dollars.

- You aren't developing the site to a higher, more tax generating use. BUT, you evidently couldn't anyway, as the land would go back to the feds first. Also, PD is going to use the building anyway. If there's room, why not bring in library too?

 

+ Renovation to a library would likely be a fairly quick process. The downtime without a downtown library presence would be great reduced. 

- The library isn't getting a new, built to fit space that it probably deserves. However, a new building would come at great expense vs. renovating 200 Texas St. 

 

+ The library would share the building with the PD

- The library would share the building with the PD

 

It'd be plenty big, maybe too big. But it is a kinda groovy space and like RD mentioned has a lot going for it already.

 

r1qXbdR.jpg



#138 Nitixope

Nitixope

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,868 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth, TX
  • Interests:Biking, Photography, Music, Bass Guitar, Architecture, Construction

Posted 02 July 2023 - 02:12 PM

I have gone back and forth on this in my head too and appreciate your list Austin. I was against it initially, but I started to change my tune after realizing the $18M they got for Central Library wasnt going to go very far. I am more annoyed with other factors in the deal to get rid of the library but perhaps lowering my expectations is better than wishing and hoping for something spectacular. I am not sure as a taxpayer, what does spectacular even mean?

Also, I sort of like the vibe, access to old City Hall site and general walkability on that end of downtown.

#139 RD Milhollin

RD Milhollin

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,945 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 02 July 2023 - 11:50 PM

They have already made other plans for the space.

There is a long recent history of poor decisions made by the Fort Worth City Council regarding the police. Does anyone here really think this is a good location for a central police headquarters? If yes, why? Why did the city council think this was the best and highest use? Knee jerk at best, IMO. May be a good argument for either adequate pay for existing mayor/council form of government (keep them on the job) or an even better argument for stronger professional management via city manager and staff. Police tactical capability needs to be dispersed around the areas deemed highest potential risk or highest potential target zone. Administration can be housed anywhere, literally, given modern communications capabilities. Dispersed, redundant, flexible, agile.. those are the key words that should be heard rather than centralized and hardened. Again, unless I am missing something pretty obvious the city council is not putting much thought into these decisions recently, or are being led around by old-school police leaders. Not surprisingly, and certainly not the first time....



#140 Crestline

Crestline

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 559 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arlington Heights

Posted 03 July 2023 - 06:53 AM

How certain are we that the city wants to put a central police headquarters in the old city hall building?



#141 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,421 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dirty suburbs

Posted 03 July 2023 - 08:47 AM

100% according to a post in the City Hall thread indicating that the plan to do so was approved in January 2022.  That doesn't mean that there might not be space for a library too, but moving the central division headquarters there gives them plenty of cover to keep it out of that building.

 

I agree that moving the police division headquarters is ill-conceived and unimaginative and I would contend that their entire real estate plan starting with the move to the Pier One building is an absolute mess.  It's all been done in the name of consolidating valuable real estate and it does very little of that.  Sure, moving the police division gets them out of expensive lease space and the library sale brings a nice infusion of cash (that doesn't cover either the renovations to the old city hall or the cost overruns on the new one).  And selling the library didn't really consolidate any space and came at the expense of a city service that had some value.



#142 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,657 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Southside

Posted 03 July 2023 - 10:13 AM

How certain are we that the city wants to put a central police headquarters in the old city hall building?


$30.2 million percent sure: https://communityimp...lice-employees/

#143 Crestline

Crestline

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 559 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arlington Heights

Posted 04 July 2023 - 06:58 AM

$30.2 million percent sure: https://communityimp...lice-employees/

 

Ah, okay, it's a done deal then. This article states that the police "project involves the second and third floors, which represents approximately 200,000 square feet of space" but that the ground floor "of city hall could be programmed for other city functions that would benefit from a downtown location." I think a new central library should be larger than the ground floor of old city hall, and so old city hall should be off the table for library use.



#144 elpingüino

elpingüino

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,441 posts

Posted 22 September 2023 - 05:00 AM

It's looking like the new location will be the ground floor of 100 Main Place. Goes before City Council on Tuesday.

Star-Telegram, Here's where the new downtown Fort Worth library location could be

New%20Downtown%20Library%206.jpg

#145 txbornviking

txbornviking

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,368 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arlington Heights

Posted 22 September 2023 - 07:33 AM

It's looking like the new location will be the ground floor of 100 Main Place. Goes before City Council on Tuesday.

Star-Telegram, Here's where the new downtown Fort Worth library location could be

New%20Downtown%20Library%206.jpg

 

I don't like the idea of the downtown library being a “neighborhood library experience.” I REALLY hope this is a stop-gap until a true central library for downtown can be created (and our city leadership should make it a priority to be done in 3-5yrs).

IMO the downtown library, the central branch, should be a showcase of what libraries can do. A Meeting Place for the public. A place to store AND access historical records. A place to inspire a love of learning.

 

As with a city hall, a central library should serve as a focal point for the larger community. There is just SO MUCH that some really great cities are doing to reimage central libraries in the 21st Century (see Calgary, see Helsinki) and yet here we are downgrading a public amenity (as we have done with public pools, the botanic garden, the replacement of the Seminary library branch with a glorified mall kiosk, etc)

(to be honest I think the La Gran Biblioteca addition to La Gran Plaza can be a cool ADDITION to the library system but it should NEVER have been viewed as a replacement for a neighborhood library, even one "across the street.")



#146 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,657 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Southside

Posted 22 September 2023 - 12:12 PM

Man, what a bummer....

 

Here's a little more from the M&C:

 

he City of Fort Worth (City) and Pescador Partners,LTD (Landlord) have been in discussions and are in agreement for the City to lease 5,015 square feet of space on the ground floor and 3,371 square feet of space in the basement located at 100 Main Street, 76102 located at the intersection of Main Street and Weatherford Street, across from the Tarrant County Courthouse for the new downtown library location. The City's Library Department, with assistance from the City's Property Management Department, have come to an agreement with Landlord on the following lease terms as follows: The terms are as follows: Term length of 123 months (3 months plus ten (10) years) with the estimated lease commencement date of October 1, 2023 and lease expiration date of December 31, 2033. Provide for two (2) five (5) year lease renewal options at the end of the primary lease term.

City will be responsible for the proportionate share of the building’s used electricity which will be a pass-through cost separate from the Rent for the Leased Premises which will be approximately $1.50 per square foot for the first year of the term. For every year thereafter throughout the term, electricity expenses will not exceed 15% of the per square foot amount from the prior year. If for any given year throughout the term the pass-through electricity expenses will exceed 15% of the prior year’s per square foot electricity cost, the parties may agree to amend the Lease to reflect the additional cost.

The Security Deposit due to Landlord by City at the beginning of the Lease will be one month's base rent from Year 1 amounts.

The base rent and utilities reflect below Fair Market Value for like properties in the Fort Worth Central Business District.

The Landlord has agreed to install a new entrance door from the street at the Landlord’s expense.

As a requirement by Landlord, City will be responsible for paying a proportionate share of the cost for the installation by Landlord of an elevator key pad system which will be utilized by each of the tenants in the building. The City's proportionate share of these costs will be an upfront amount of $5,000.00 to be paid at the beginning of the Lease.

Tenant improvements to the Leased Premises will be at the City's expense which are estimated to be approximately $130,000.00. City plans to utilize existing job order contracts for the finish out of the Leased Premises. Funding for the tenant improvements will be from the proceeds of the sale of the old downtown library which will be appropriated in a separate M&C.

As an additional requirement under the Lease, City will be responsible for providing security guard services for the Leased Premises during Library hours which will include making exterior passes around the building during that same time frame.

Funding will be budgeted in the Library Department's Other Contractual Services Account within the General Fund for Fiscal Year 2024.

 

https://fortworthgov...C6-BDD14E0D707B



#147 Jeriat

Jeriat

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,064 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SWFW

Posted 22 September 2023 - 12:13 PM

It's looking like the new location will be the ground floor of 100 Main Place. Goes before City Council on Tuesday.

Star-Telegram, Here's where the new downtown Fort Worth library location could be

New%20Downtown%20Library%206.jpg

 

Albeit, I had thoughts of this same building (the ENTIRE building) being reshaped and added on to become the new central library, but:

dzz2BsL.png

 

It may be coincidental, but they're reading our stuff on this forum, for sure. 


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#148 rriojas71

rriojas71

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,496 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belmont Terrace - Historic North Side
  • Interests:Real Estate, RE Development, Geography, Team Sports, Restaurants, Urban Exploring, Gaming, Travel, History

Posted 22 September 2023 - 12:18 PM

Not surprised with the negative views about libraries currently in the political landscape.



#149 Nitixope

Nitixope

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,868 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth, TX
  • Interests:Biking, Photography, Music, Bass Guitar, Architecture, Construction

Posted 22 September 2023 - 12:59 PM

Man, what a bummer....

 

Here's a little more from the M&C:

 

he City of Fort Worth (City) and Pescador Partners,LTD (Landlord) have been in discussions and are in agreement for the City to lease 5,015 square feet of space on the ground floor and 3,371 square feet of space in the basement located at 100 Main Street, 76102 located at the intersection of Main Street and Weatherford Street, across from the Tarrant County Courthouse for the new downtown library location. The City's Library Department, with assistance from the City's Property Management Department, have come to an agreement with Landlord on the following lease terms as follows: The terms are as follows: Term length of 123 months (3 months plus ten (10) years) with the estimated lease commencement date of October 1, 2023 and lease expiration date of December 31, 2033. Provide for two (2) five (5) year lease renewal options at the end of the primary lease term.

City will be responsible for the proportionate share of the building’s used electricity which will be a pass-through cost separate from the Rent for the Leased Premises which will be approximately $1.50 per square foot for the first year of the term. For every year thereafter throughout the term, electricity expenses will not exceed 15% of the per square foot amount from the prior year. If for any given year throughout the term the pass-through electricity expenses will exceed 15% of the prior year’s per square foot electricity cost, the parties may agree to amend the Lease to reflect the additional cost.

The Security Deposit due to Landlord by City at the beginning of the Lease will be one month's base rent from Year 1 amounts.

The base rent and utilities reflect below Fair Market Value for like properties in the Fort Worth Central Business District.

The Landlord has agreed to install a new entrance door from the street at the Landlord’s expense.

As a requirement by Landlord, City will be responsible for paying a proportionate share of the cost for the installation by Landlord of an elevator key pad system which will be utilized by each of the tenants in the building. The City's proportionate share of these costs will be an upfront amount of $5,000.00 to be paid at the beginning of the Lease.

Tenant improvements to the Leased Premises will be at the City's expense which are estimated to be approximately $130,000.00. City plans to utilize existing job order contracts for the finish out of the Leased Premises. Funding for the tenant improvements will be from the proceeds of the sale of the old downtown library which will be appropriated in a separate M&C.

As an additional requirement under the Lease, City will be responsible for providing security guard services for the Leased Premises during Library hours which will include making exterior passes around the building during that same time frame.

Funding will be budgeted in the Library Department's Other Contractual Services Account within the General Fund for Fiscal Year 2024.

 

https://fortworthgov...C6-BDD14E0D707B

 

Wow.

 

"...City to lease 5,015 square feet of space on the ground floor and 3,371 square feet of space in the basement."

 

"Term length of 123 months (3 months plus ten (10) years) with the estimated lease commencement date of October 1, 2023 and lease expiration date of December 31, 2033. Provide for two (2) five (5) year lease renewal options at the end of the primary lease term."

 

"Tenant improvements to the Leased Premises will be at the City's expense which are estimated to be approximately $130,000.00"



#150 Nitixope

Nitixope

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,868 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth, TX
  • Interests:Biking, Photography, Music, Bass Guitar, Architecture, Construction

Posted 22 September 2023 - 01:02 PM

I noticed something strange, earlier today, the S-T article was on their main page, now it is not...but it is still active as an article through the link elpingüino posted above. 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users