35 replies to this topic

[Austin55]

Near Southside Inc hired a consultant to study traffic and parking patters on and along magnolia between Hemphill and 8th Ave. 

 

The report recorded a ton of detailed data and makes 3 suggestions, 

 

1 - Establish times (4:00 PM to 6:00 AM) where parking South of Magnolia in Fairmount is restricted to residents.

 

2 - Implement meters on Magnolia between 10:00 AM and 8:00 PM. 

 

3 - Meters on cross streets of Magnolia and fees to use the free garage at Alston and future garage at the hotel.

 

https://www.nearsout...rculation-study

[Dylan]

BOOOOO at options 2 and 3. That's how you kill business.

[John T Roberts]

Dylan, I think that since the area has become so popular, something has to be done.  I think it should be tried out to see what happens.  If business suffers, then they should revisit the meters and the fees. 

[JBB]

Same as downtown. If a lack of free parking kills business in a seemingly thriving area, it may not really be thriving and there is a bigger underlying problem.

[renamerusk]

I would like to have the City think out of the box from time to time.

 

There are garages and parking lots at either end of the stretch of Magnolia between Hemphill and 8th Avenue; determine if there is a time in the evening when the garages and lots are empty; contract with the owners.  Issue permits to operators of a half of dozen of tuk tuk cars that could ferry riders from their cars in these lots and garages to the restaurants and shops on Magnolia.

 

What is a Tuk Tuk Car?

 

[johnfwd]

I would like to have the City think out of the box from time to time.

 

There are garages and parking lots at either end of the stretch of Magnolia between Hemphill and 8th Avenue; determine if there is a time in the evening when the garages and lots are empty; contract with the owners.  Issue permits to operators of a half of dozen of tuk tuk cars that could ferry riders from their cars in these lots and garages to the restaurants and shops on Magnolia.

 

What is a Tuk Tuk Car?

 

Cool!  A modern version of the Rikshaw in China and the horse-and-buggy in the U.S. pre-automobile days.  Or just a sleek looking taxi cab?

 

Reminds me, too, that a few months ago I was in Norman, Oklahoma, to attend an OU game.  Decided to bring my bicycle to ride to the stadium. Riding through the commercial area I noticed two or three battery-powered mini-scooters lying on some street corners at major intersections.  Credit card operated, I noticed. I guess that's Norman's version of our bike sharing scheme (which that city does not have).  

[txbornviking]

former UCLA Professor of Urban Planning Donald Shoup has been a long time advocate for betting the way we manage our parking supply nationwide. He's a fan of "right pricing" parking and using those revenues to further investments in the areas people do park. For those of you who may not be familiar with Shoup or the "Shoupista" outlook, here are a couple of helpful links. 

 

https://www.planning...ad-around-world

http://www.shoupdogg.com/reforms/

 

If you're interested in more I'd HIGHLY recommend his book "The High Cost of Free Parking."

[roverone]

If people think parking should not be free, I wonder why people don't think every road should be a toll road?

 

The infrastructure cost and maintenance of roads is expensive, and free roads encourage automobile use.

[Dylan]

Charging for parking in urban areas encourages suburbanites to stay in suburban areas for leisure (where parking is free pretty much everywhere).

 

In other words, charging for parking gives businesses in urban areas a disadvantage.

[renamerusk]

So this will go over as being somewhat if not wildly radical, but the purpose of Magnolia should not be the playground of suburbanites or their convenience.  Magnolia should be the playground for the immediate surrounding neighborhoods that are within walking distance or transit distance. 

 

What I am theorizing is that there should be multiple "Magnolias" throughout the City (Race/Six Points, W7th, Berry Street, River District, South Main, etc. so that the automobile can be left in the driveway. 

 

Attempting to provide parking for people who chose to live where the automobile dictates their lifestyle is counterproductive to those who chose to live in the immediate surrounding neighborhoods and the rewards of living in these vibrant urban settings.

 

The solution may be to encourage more affordable multi family housing in the Magnolia Area and other similar urban villages so that these residents can more than make up for and replace the lost of suburbanites.

[JBB]

Remember when they said that paid parking would kill the museums? Remember when people would say that downtown Dallas would never attract visitors without free parking?

[Dylan]

FWIW, I consider Magnolia Ave to be more of a regional destination than solely a neighborhood destination.

 

---------------------------

 

?The museums here charge for parking? Good to know- I didn't know that.

 

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've read Downtown Dallas is largely deserted at night. During the day, it has a huge office population willing to walk to lunch.

 

Comparing Downtown Dallas to Magnolia Avenue may as well be comparing apples to blueberries.

[renamerusk]

Oh by the way, this adds to the argument for street car or rail service in this sector of the City.

[JBB]

Let me correct what I said about the museums. The Will Rogers lots that serve the Museum of Science and History, the Cowgirl Hall of Fame, the Community Arts Center, and the Amon Carter Museum were switched from free to paid and doom and gloom was widely predicted. Even to the point that it was used by Historic Fort Worth as a reason to put the Cultural District on their most endangered places list in 2015. I don't want to rehash it. I respect Historic FW and appreciate the work they do, but I thought that was a cheap way to complain about free parking going away and that it had nothing to do with historic preservation.

Yeah, I knew the comparison to Dallas was a bit dicey. The idea that Downtown Dallas is a ghost town at night is largely outdated. Like Fort Worth, there's pockets that are deserted, but the area around the Omni and Main Street are pretty busy in the evenings. And they've managed that without free parking.

My point is that, if it's a vibrant destination, then it should survive on street parking meters. The Stockyards does well with paid parking and there's plenty of locals and suburbanites hanging out there. The Cultural District didn't fold up and shut down as predicted because of the paid parking in the Will Rogers lots. I'm interested in hearing an example of an area, local or otherwise, that struggled significantly as a result of switching from free to paid parking.

[youngalum]

Remember when people would say that downtown Dallas would never attract visitors without free parking?

Deep Ellum has free metered parking during the day

[Austin55]

The study cites a case in Austin where business saw increased sales after meters where installed. 

[Doohickie]

The study cites a case in Austin where business saw increased sales after meters where installed.

 

It could promote turnover.  If parking is max two hours, people will not be as likely to hang out, slowly finishing their drinks, so tables turn over quicker and a restaurant gets more turns.

[Volare]

 The Cultural District didn't fold up and shut down as predicted because of the paid parking in the Will Rogers lots. I'm interested in hearing an example of an area, local or otherwise, that struggled significantly as a result of switching from free to paid parking.

 

The museums have seen dramatic drop offs in attendance since the City's parking scheme was put in place. So much so that they had to start operating their own free lots (Like Cowgirl and Science) or build their own underground garages (Like Kimbell). Amon Carter has no such amenity, nor does the community art center, and they have been hurt badly by this scheme which benefits mostly the Stock Show and their ownership.

 

We are talking about lots around WRMC that were bought and paid for 50+ years ago by the taxpayers. Why don't we just re-install the tollbooths on I-30 and charge everyone coming from the East who wants to enter our fair city. I know the "turnpike" was paid for years ago, but who cares? We have other projects we need to pay off!

 

It's a complete scam. A $10 million garage that cost the taxpayers $20 million.

[renamerusk]

 

 The Cultural District didn't fold up and shut down as predicted because of the paid parking in the Will Rogers lots.

 

The museums have seen dramatic drop offs in attendance since the City's parking scheme was put in place.....they have been hurt badly by this scheme which benefits mostly the Stock Show and their ownership....We are talking about lots around WRMC that were bought and paid for 50+ years ago by the taxpayers.... Why don't we just re-install the tollbooths on I-30 and charge everyone coming from the East who wants to enter our fair city.....

 

Mr.V, the cynic in me agrees with you.  Charge parking at the Cultural District and now Magnolia all the while subsidizing free parking Downtown,  euphemism  for Sundance Square.  Who said, "Rob Peter to pay Paul?"

 

A policy, for which I am sure the City has yet to begin to think about, will need to be finalized before the Dickie's Arena opens; but I will be surprised if City Leadership has a plan in place in time.  The no-tax or low tax advocates generally call for user's fees to go avoid raising taxes; ultimately user's fees fall disportionately on the working middle class.

 

I would suggest that on the days and nights that there are events in the arena there can be paid parking on all the lots.  During the Stock Show and Rodeo, paid parking on all the lots. 

 

Provide free parking Tuesday - Sunday, 10:00AM to 3:00P to allow and to encourage greater attendance of the general public at the museums.

[Austin55]

Topic of a weekly article

https://www.fwweekly...AC5xbvp93TK-7io

[John T Roberts]

It will be interesting to see how all of this is worked out along Magnolia. 

[Austin55]

One thing I question in the article, I don't believe the city uses tow trucks for parking offenders, just parking tickets, unless there's been an excessive amount of time.

[Doohickie]

One thing I question in the article, I don't believe the city uses tow trucks for parking offenders, just parking tickets, unless there's been an excessive amount of time.

 

Incorrect.  A friend recently posted this to Facebook:

 

At Sundance Square watching a whole row of cars get towed from No Parking.

 

[JBB]

I would imagine that parking in a "no parking" area is treated differently from letting the meter expire.

[Austin55]

That's odd anyone parked there, it's straight up a travel lane!

[John T Roberts]

Here's an article in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram:

 

https://www.star-tel...e233056227.html

[Electricron]

Here's an article in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram:

 

https://www.star-tel...e233056227.html

Interesting news article.

The purpose of putting parking meters on Magnolia is to encourage a quicker turnover of cars. The longer you park, the more you pay penalty - or if you prefer the quicker you leave the less you pay. 

Have you ever parked at a metered parking space and not put in the maximum allowed? After doing so, do you check your watch to determine when you must leave, or feed the meter again? 

 

They will not be putting parking meters on the side streets, just on Magnolia. Guess where the penny pinchers will start parking?

[Doohickie]

The longer you park, the more you pay penalty - or if you prefer the quicker you leave the less you pay. 
Have you ever parked at a metered parking space and not put in the maximum allowed? After doing so, do you check your watch to determine when you must leave, or feed the meter again?

Have you heard about the FW Park app? I recently learned of it.  You can pay through the app and monitor how much time you have "on the meter" and add more time if you're running longer than you expected.

[JBB]

They will not be putting parking meters on the side streets, just on Magnolia. Guess where the penny pinchers will start parking?

In my experience around Magnolia, that's already happening because of the limited amount of parking.

[george84]

Without a doubt. When I go eat somewhere on Magnolia, it's rare that I find something on the street itself. I almost always park on a side street and walk a couple of blocks. 

[John T Roberts]

Doohickie, I thought it was illegal to "feed" the meters.  Once your time limit is up to the maximum allowed on the space, you are required to move your vehicle to another location. 

 

JBB, Electricron, and george84, I thought that they were going to have permit parking in Fairmount down to W. Myrtle St.  That would force neighborhood parkers to walk at least two full blocks in the best cases. 

[JBB]

I haven't read every article on this subject, so I didn't know that and I'm not surprised.  I went to lunch at Heim a couple of weeks ago and parked on Morphy.  That would obviously be prohibited under the new permits.

[george84]

I feel like those permits are going to hurt business for the restaurants. There are only so many places you can park, and there are very few places that have any parking lots, and usually they are completely full, like the tiny Cane Rosso parking lot. If you live right off Magnolia, you get the benefit of getting to walk to all these places, but I think you would also have to expect that if you leave very close, there will be people parking on your street. 

[JBB]

I've been chastised for this before for suggesting the same thing about parking changes in the Cultural District and downtown, but if these areas are really as strong and thriving as we think, won't people find a way?  I'm not saying there won't be short term growing pains, but if the areas are severely hurt in the long term, are there bigger problems than a lack of free parking?  Yet another consequence of sprawling our way into oblivion.  It dumbs down the value of development in the core when paid parking becomes a necessary evil.

[Doohickie]

Doohickie, I thought it was illegal to "feed" the meters.  Once your time limit is up to the maximum allowed on the space, you are required to move your vehicle to another location.

 

True.  But if it's two hour parking you can pay for 40 minutes if you're eating dinner and if it runs over you can bump up the amount paid with the app to add another 20 minutes or whatever, so you don't have to pay for the full two hours right away "just to be safe."  I don't think you can exceed the maximum though.

[John T Roberts]

Doohickie, I believe that you are correct in the way the app and putting in more money until the maximum time works.