135 replies to this topic

[Austin55]

High profile location in an area with a huge need for rooms. Currently a few single story light industrial type structures on the land, with a goodwill at one end. Not sure the exact amount of land that it will take up. 

 

The hotel will be 117 rooms built over a 114 space garage.

 

No renderings or details on how many floor or anything yet but I will be on the lookout.

[John T Roberts]

Could this actually be going at the old proposed hotel site where Dos Gringos was located?  That's only one block off of the intersection.

[Austin55]

I checked the ownership on TAD and it's the same as the listed owner on the permit along Lancaster.

[Jeriat]

I was thinking for a second... Lancaster & University.  Thought it was going to be right on the corner, replacing the Goodwill and that strip of buildings along Lancaster.

But the old Dos Gringos site makes sense. 

[renamerusk]

Based upon my impressions of Home2suties in general, this project will face similar scrutiny as did the Renovo.  H2S is not the boutique hotel that Cultural District will readily embrace.

 

Not only will it be scrutinized for its esthetic appeal, it will in violation of the Carter Skyline View  Ordinance.  I think that I will be siding with the museums and their concerns.

 

On the hand, I doubt there would be any serious concerns raised if H2S was located at the NE-C  of University and 7th Streets or anywhere along the north frontage of 7th Street from University to Carroll.

[Dylan]

Unlike the Hotel Renovo site, I'd be opposed to a tall building here.

 

If it's no more than 4-5 stories and doesn't block the skyline, I'd be happy to see it.

[renamerusk]

Unlike the Hotel Renovo site, I'd be opposed to a tall building here.

 

If it's no more than 4-5 stories and doesn't block the skyline, I'd be happy to see it.

 

  Looks as though H2S typically range in the 4-5 story category.  It is an extended stay hotel needing an abundance of surface parking; not the boutique hotel which is desirable for the CD.  I can not believe that it is a fit for an area with such close proximity to the Kimbell or the Modern.  

 

A much more acceptable location is near the DA along Montgomery Street, that is if there is available land.

[Austin55]

Some more dets. Will be 5 floors, on east side the  will be above ground, the west side will have 4 above ground and 1 basement level. Perhaps due to grade of site? Garage is lower 2 floors, 3 floors of hotel above. Address will be 1145 University Drive. 

[John T Roberts]

Yes, this is due to the grade of the site. There is quite a bit of slope from west to east, obviously enough to have one level below grade on the west side, and then have that floor be at grade on the east.

[JBB]

Assuming it runs all the way from University to Norwood west-east, there's a pretty decent grade.

 

Edit: Great minds think alike.

[renamerusk]

Some more dets. Will be 5 floors, on east side the  will be above ground, the west side will have 4 above ground and 1 basement level. Perhaps due to grade of site? Garage is lower 2 floors, 3 floors of hotel above. Address will be 1145 University Drive. 

 

 

Yes, this is due to the grade of the site. There is quite a bit of slope from west to east, obviously enough to have one level below grade on the west side, and then have that floor be at grade on the east.

 

While its arguable whether being a neighbor to the museums is an incalculable asset for a hotel, it does make me wonder why, with all the restrictions on design due to any location being in close proximity to the museums, developers are choosing to do so when much of being a neighbor to the museums could be achieved between 7th Street and White Settlement Rd or along Montgomery Street from Camp Bowie to West Freeway? 

 

Home2Suite properties are extended stay lodging, aren't they?;  and wouldn't surface parking take up a significant amount of the site?

 

The garage facade that faces the museums will have to be "artistic" for sure or this development will be hard to garner approval. The bottom line; I think the site location, on a scale of 10 being difficult, is a 9.5

[John T Roberts]

I doubt the garage will be facing the museums. The way I would design it would be for the basement/lowest level to be parking with the 2nd level having the main entrance on University.  The lobby and support spaces for the hotel would be located on the west side of the building, with the eastern portion of the building housing parking.  I think you could see how this would be very functional.  One level of parking would have direct access to the lobby, and there would be a street entrance to the hotel.  Then the upper floors would have the rooms.  The sides of the 2 level garage could be disguised to not appear to be a parking garage.

[renamerusk]

For a Home2Suite brand, it will entail a lot of design work. None of the H2S, if the local franchises are prototypical, appear to have what I would deem extraordinary detailing in design. 

 

Taking on such a high profile site as facing the Kimbell/Modern will require a great sensitivity that appears uncharacteristic to the brand.  I think there will be some significant concern on the part of the Cultural District once again. I find this to be a poor site for a hotel, let alone, an extended stay hotel.

 

Why not avoid the drama; build the hotel along Montgomery Street somewhere near to the arena?

[Austin55]

The garage facade that faces the museums will have to be "artistic" for sure or this development will be hard to garner approval. The bottom line; I think the site location, on a scale of 10 being difficult, is a 9.5

 

 

I bet we never see renders of this online. They have already filed permits to construct with both state and city and we've seen nothing on it. The lack of press is probably exactly what they are hoping for. 

 

 

 

along Montgomery Street from Camp Bowie to West Freeway?

 

Arlington Heights HOA is one of the strongest NIMBY organizations in the city. Only the most recent case.

[renamerusk]

along Montgomery Street from Camp Bowie to West Freeway?

 

 

Arlington Heights HOA is one of the strongest NIMBY organizations in the city......

 

 Now that the DA is set to open within 18 months and Montgomery Street is being upgraded there will be,  and it is to be expected, numerous commercial development along either sides of the corridor.  The City is all but telegraphing what it desires along Montgomery Street and wishes it to become the primary artery to and from the arena from Lancaster to I-30.

 

AH-HOA will not be successful in preventing the build out of what is already a commercial corridor stretching from I30 to Lancaster Avenue that is being prepped for development.

 

Recall the debate about Magnolia Avenue and how Fairmount District sought to impose its will over the kinds of development along Magnolia Avenue.  Properties that front Magnolia Avenue are not bound, I believe, to the Fairmount HOA, only the delineating border for the Rosedale/Hospital/Magnolia Avenue District which is considered a distinctive entertainment/commercial district of its own.

 

The time may have come to decide whether Montgomery Street is in Arlington Heights or whether it is the boundary of the Cultural District. If it is determined that the street serves as a boundary between the Cultural District, then AH HOA could have very little say about land use along this stretch of Montgomery Street. 

[elpingüino]

The lack of press is probably exactly what they are hoping for. 

The Morning News has an update. Five stories, $15.2 million

https://www.dallasne...hilton-property

[Jeriat]

Downtown Fort Worth is getting a new Hilton property

 

 

I had no idea University & Lancaster was downtown...

[renamerusk]

 

The lack of press is probably exactly what they are hoping for. 

The Morning News has an update. Five stories, $15.2 million

 

 $15.2 million; isn't that of the bargain basement variety for a hotel at the doorstep to the Cultural District? Hotel Renovo Fort Worth, which was utimately rejected, was proposed to cost $41million. This is perhaps the most sensitive neighborhood in the City when it comes to aesthetics. 

 

I have yet to see the renderings, but I already sense a bruising battle brewing should H2S be anything remotely like its typical brand.

[Doohickie]

 

Downtown Fort Worth is getting a new Hilton property

 

 

I had no idea University & Lancaster was downtown...

 

 

You'd be surprised how many people think it is downtown.  But we've had that discussion before.

[Jeriat]

 

 

Downtown Fort Worth is getting a new Hilton property

 

 

I had no idea University & Lancaster was downtown...

 

 

You'd be surprised how many people think it is downtown.  But we've had that discussion before.

 

 

Trust me, I would not surprised at all. 

I've literally drawn maps for people to show where downtown is and isn't. 

[renamerusk]

 

 

Downtown Fort Worth is getting a new Hilton property

 

 

I had no idea University & Lancaster was downtown...

 

 

You'd be surprised how many people think it is downtown.  But we've had that discussion before.

 

   People may be excused for not knowing the difference but not one of the major media companies in North Texas.

 

Actually, DMN demonstrates how it would like to be apart of the Tarrant County market and how on the other hand it does not investigate enough resources to do that. If DMN placed a bureau in Fort Worth, it might not have made this minor, but revealing misspeak.

[renamerusk]

I bet we never see renders of this online. They have already filed permits to construct with both state and city and we've seen nothing on it. The lack of press is probably exactly what they are hoping for. 

 

 

 From driving around town and the Metroplex and from seeing what I've seen for myself, I can't believe that the pro-typical model of H2S would or should be allowed within eyesight of Kahn's Kimbell or Ando's Modern.

 

 I will credit H2S for its great reviews.  H2S is a bit hit with guests.

[rriojas71]

^^

Yeah I agree. They should just keep the Goodwill Store there and leave well enough alone.

[Jeriat]

^^

Yeah I agree. They should just keep the Goodwill Store there and leave well enough alone.

 

Um... I think that Goodwil is gone. 

[rriojas71]

^^
Yeah I agree. They should just keep the Goodwill Store there and leave well enough alone.

 
Um... I think that Goodwil is gone.

Yes I know. I was kinda being sarcastic. Really just stating that although people are not wanting the Hotel building across from the Museums it will be better than what is there now

[renamerusk]

 

 

^^
Yeah I agree. They should just keep the Goodwill Store there and leave well enough alone.

 
Um... I think that Goodwil is gone.

Yes I know. I was kinda being sarcastic. Really just stating that although people are not wanting the Hotel building across from the Museums it will be better than what is there now

 

 

 As one might suspect, I find plenty to disagree with that conclusion.  I understand the bit of sarcasm. Two points that are worth consideration:

 

Its a fine line, but H2S is not as much a hotel as it is an extended stay lodge; their site says as much (kitchenette, den).  Extended stay lodging does not induce dining in nearby restaurants, instead it is a home away from home.  Lodging such as H2S meets the needs of workers and jobs that require one to be away from their home for an extended time.  The ideal hotel for the Cultural District is a full service hotel -  a boutique hotel.  This is certainly an odd location for an extended stay lodge.

 

Apparently, the Goodwill has been demolished.  However, the Goodwill was retail and was compatible with the area.  It was a place where the residents in that neighborhood would shop and would donate. I have shopped and donated at Goodwill stores; and find them to have interesting things and feel a sense of goodwill when I have donated to them.  It filled a need that will be missed. 

[george84]

 

 

From driving around town and the Metroplex and from seeing what I've seen for myself, I can't believe that the pro-typical model of H2S would or should be allowed within eyesight of Kahn's Kimbell or Ando's Modern.

 

Hopefully this location will not be just the typical H2S. I found several examples of urban H2S locations that look pretty decent, so at least we know that they don't just build the same exact hotel every time. 

 

https://cityscenekc....n-by-christmas/

 

http://www.mortenson...gos-river-north

 

https://www.base-4.c...home2-suites-6/

[renamerusk]

 

From driving around town and the Metroplex and from seeing what I've seen for myself, I can't believe that the pro-typical model of H2S would or should be allowed within eyesight of Kahn's Kimbell or Ando's Modern.

 

Hopefully this location will not be just the typical H2S. I found several examples of urban H2S locations that look pretty decent, so at least we know that they don't just build the same exact hotel every time. ....

 

Great finds.

 

I would be thrilled with any one of those properties in Downtown where I believe they would be openly received; and even though they are decent in appearance; I have no delusion that they could be built or should be built near the museums. 

 

5-story is what they are planning, and that sounds prototypical and the site footprint is so tiny. 

 

Clearly, a location on the north side of West 7th Street, or 7th Street west of University; and even at Left Bank would be less problematic.

 

I believe the museums as well as the rest of us are waiting for more details.

[george84]

The good news is that is seemed like a garage is part of the design, which hopefully means it will be at least a little different than the prototypical suburban design.

[renamerusk]

High profile location in an area with a huge need for rooms. Currently a few single story light industrial type structures on the land, with a goodwill at one end. Not sure the exact amount of land that it will take up.....The hotel will be 117 rooms built over a 114 space garage.

 

 

The Morning News has an update. Five stories, $15.2 million...

 

 How do you get 117 rooms, a 114 space garage on a budget of $15.2m?  For $16m in 2016-17 you could get the Downtown Kansas City H2S, but that was then.

 

The previous hotel at Museum Place called for a full service boutique hotel with 180 rooms, atop of a garage at a $41m investment; was lower from 12 to 10 story; and included restaurant, spa, and retail on Camp Bowie. It was kabashed to my sorrow.  Prepare for all out war from the museums; and unless the design blows us all away, I will be siding with the museums.

 

The Background/landmines -

http://txamagazine.o...tural-district/

[Austin55]

Demo permits are in for 3012, 3016 and 3020 Lancaster, and 1111 University. 

[Doohickie]

The Background/landmines -
http://txamagazine.o...tural-district/

 
That article does nothing to convince me that the museum exerts any special influence over adjacent land use.  It's a masterpiece of architecture if you want to call it that, but the use of the adjacent land that can be dictated by the museum is limited to the museum grounds.

[renamerusk]

 

The Background/landmines -
http://txamagazine.o...tural-district/

 
That article does nothing to convince me that the museum exerts any special influence over adjacent land use.  It's a masterpiece of architecture if you want to call it that, but the use of the adjacent land that can be dictated by the museum is limited to the museum grounds.

 

 If the concerns expressed by the "Cultural District Alliance" that eventually led to scuttled the Renovo Hotel across from the museums did not convince you of their special influence, then perhaps you can't be convinced.

 

The CDA is likely waiting for the design to become public before it makes its recommendations or give its support.or not.

[renamerusk]

So each time I come across a H2S property, I try to imagine one like it near the art museums...so far, any of the cookie-cutter reiterations of H2S have not come close to what I believe will be of the standard set by the museums and the Cultural District at large.

 

If anyone has come across a H2S property that would be acceptable, can you share it with us?

[ramjet]

So each time I come across a H2S property, I try to imagine one like it near the art museums...so far, any of the cookie-cutter reiterations of H2S have not come close to what I believe will be of the standard set by the museums and the Cultural District at large.

 

If anyone has come across a H2S property that would be acceptable, can you share it with us?

 

Not a H2S, but I like the design.

 

[renamerusk]

I agree.  Where is it? Is it available at $15.2m?

 

This design would be welcomed, I think, by the Modern and Kimbell Museums...its iconic.

 

I have a photo taken of myself with this building in it.

[Austin55]

Here is the hospitality portfolio of the architect of the building

 

http://www.ponder2.com/hospitality.php

[youngalum]

There is not one hotel that they designed that would be appropriate for the location.

 

Part of me wants them to build the most generic one possible to put the museums in their place, but that means an ugly building.  That isn't a win for Fort Worth and would be a tragedy.

[george84]

Yeah that architecture firm has done nothing but generic suburban hotels it seems based on that link. I wonder what this will end up looking like.

[Doohickie]

A plane crash is a tragedy.  Let's keep this in perspective.

 

Also, all those hotels are designed and built to client specs.  If Home2 requests something more in keeping with the Cultural District, all they have to do is spec it to the developer.  Realistically you could build a pretty plain rectangular box and put some snazzy architectural details like in that picture, and the building wouldn't have to cost a fortune.

[renamerusk]

The problem that I find with H2S is that it is really low balling this project relative to the highly sensitive location that they have decided to develop.   $15.2 m is the typical budget for H2S projects to reproduce their assembly line of hotels.

 

Any hotel project fronting the museums will have to be extraordinary to garner the support of the CD.  Yes it has sometimes been frustrating dealing with the CD, but it has established a higher level for standards than other areas within the City; and developers need to be cognizant of this.

[youngalum]

A plane crash is a tragedy.  Let's keep this in perspective.

Jeez, okay I see you take things literally. 

[Jeriat]

There is not one hotel that they designed that would be appropriate for the location.

 

Part of me wants them to build the most generic one possible to put the museums in their place, but that means an ugly building.  That isn't a win for Fort Worth and would be a tragedy.

 

 

Yeah that architecture firm has done nothing but generic suburban hotels it seems based on that link. I wonder what this will end up looking like.

 

...honestly, I wasn't expecting anything more than what is typically shown in that portfolio for that hotel. 

If anything, that's EXACTLY what I expect.

[johnfwd]

Here is the hospitality portfolio of the architect of the building

 

http://www.ponder2.com/hospitality.php

I like the design of the Hotel Flamenco in Costa Rica, if there's a enough space for it in the Cultural District area.

[renamerusk]

The broker made their commission, but seem to have done very little to inform or to dissuade H2S of what is expected; its like a knowledgeable builder who knows what can be built and what can not be built in a place like Westover Hills.

 

Strategically, selecting this location for one of its prototype hotels is a mistake unless H2S is willing to double its investment.  The interior design of the H2S is less a criteria than the manner in which it will interface with the museums.

 

It requires an in depth understanding of the neighborhood to appreciate how the Kimbell could take the care and expense of designing something as mundane as surface parking at Darnell @ Van Cliburn and the detail given to the wall along University.

 

I predict that H2S will have to modify its plans drastically for the better or look for another suitable locale; probably Montgomery @ Trail Drive.

[renamerusk]

 

Here is the hospitality portfolio of the architect of the building

 

http://www.ponder2.com/hospitality.php

I like the design of the Hotel Flamenco in Costa Rica, if there's a enough space for it in the Cultural District area.

 

 

I don't believe there is enough space for a Hotel Flamenco, but something like this from Barcelona, Spain would be exciting.  The one caveat is the Amon Carter Skyline View restrictions; and of course, this Spanish hotel is probably beyond the limited budget of H2S

 

[Doohickie]

There is not one hotel that they designed that would be appropriate for the location.

 

Part of me wants them to build the most generic one possible to put the museums in their place, but that means an ugly building.  That isn't a win for Fort Worth and would be a tragedy.

 

 

 

A plane crash is a tragedy.  Let's keep this in perspective.

Jeez, okay I see you take things literally.

 

Not even close to being a tragedy when you say, "Part of me wants them to build the most generic one possible."  I reacted to the self-contradiction in your post.

[arch-image]

 

High profile location in an area with a huge need for rooms. Currently a few single story light industrial type structures on the land, with a goodwill at one end. Not sure the exact amount of land that it will take up.....The hotel will be 117 rooms built over a 114 space garage.

 

 

The Morning News has an update. Five stories, $15.2 million...

 

 How do you get 117 rooms, a 114 space garage on a budget of $15.2m?  For $16m in 2016-17 you could get the Downtown Kansas City H2S, but that was then.

 

The previous hotel at Museum Place called for a full service boutique hotel with 180 rooms, atop of a garage at a $41m investment; was lower from 12 to 10 story; and included restaurant, spa, and retail on Camp Bowie. It was kabashed to my sorrow.  Prepare for all out war from the museums; and unless the design blows us all away, I will be siding with the museums.

 

The Background/landmines -

http://txamagazine.o...tural-district/

 

15.2 Mil is a very realistic budget for a typical H2S. 75-80k a key on the hotel and 25-30 per space on the garage with a bit left over for some upgrades. Have to remember on the other it was a Boutique (custom) Hotel, full service, more amenities, over 6 stories so built to hi-rise codes, much higher exterior cost vs the plain jane standard brick an stucco on a H2S. Haven't seen the plans but looks like a budget I would take on easily. I'm doing a Towneplace right now about this size, no garage, for about 8 mil. 

[renamerusk]

15.2 Mil is a very realistic budget for a typical H2S. 75-80k a key on the hotel and 25-30 per space on the garage with a bit left over for some upgrades. Have to remember on the other it was a Boutique (custom) Hotel, full service, more amenities, over 6 stories so built to hi-rise codes, much higher exterior cost vs the plain jane standard brick an stucco on a H2S. Haven't seen the plans but looks like a budget I would take on easily. I'm doing a Towneplace right now about this size, no garage, for about 8 mil. 

 

 Yes, but the likely operative narrative in this situation is one similar to an operative narrative that a builder building a house for a particular neighborhood might face; and that narrative is -

 

 "There are neighborhoods where you can put in affordable housing; and there are neighborhoods where you can't".

 

The Cultural District is a neighborhood where you can't.

 

What I believe will be the ultimate downfall of this hotel project is that once its low budget proposal comes to light, it will either have to make significant upgrades, thus raising its budget, or it will have to withdraw.  I would favor H2S along Montgomery Street, but find it a harder sell at the intersection of University-Lancaster.

[arch-image]

I get what your saying Rename, it will be interesting to see what they come up with, there is room in the budget at that price, I would say at least 750k to a mil to do some pretty good upgrades to the exterior that might make it fly and that much can go a long way. As for Montgomery Street, or hell anywhere else in this area, let me know if you know of any property i took 3 calls from people wanting to do hotels in the area but cant find land and I have avoided the Museum place site, not sure if its even available any longer.