Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Fort Worth and Professional Sports


  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#1 johnfwd

johnfwd

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,344 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:southwest
  • Interests:Running, bicycling, bowling, nightclub life, science, technology.

Posted 30 April 2024 - 11:42 AM

The Dallas City Council's decision to take the Wings away from Arlington has reminded me, once again, how Dallas has dominated professional sports in North Texas. 

 

I know it's an old topic in this forum, but it's worth noting again.  The fact is, Fort Worth has long ago conceded professional sports to Dallas (which includes Arlington in the scheme of things).  It seems a subliminal and subconscious choice on the part of Fort Worthians.  We consider the Cowboys, the Stars, and the Mavericks to be "our" teams.

 

So we have NASCAR, the PGA at Colonial, and the Panther City Lacrosse team.  We have rodeos.  Any others?  It's interesting to note that most, if not all, sports names in Big D are named after its city.  Does Fort Worth have a professional sport with the name "Fort Worth."  I don't really think anyone in our city cares that we don't have a bona fide "Fort Worth" sports franchise.



#2 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,368 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Southside

Posted 30 April 2024 - 11:58 AM

There are rumblings too that Panther City Lacrosse might move with the Wings. They are under the same ownership. 



#3 Doohickie

Doohickie

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,352 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Hills

Posted 30 April 2024 - 12:52 PM

Well that would suck.


My blog: Doohickie

#4 rriojas71

rriojas71

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,695 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Earth

Posted 30 April 2024 - 02:16 PM

FW has never really supported any of the teams they do get.  Everyone of them leave after a couple of years due to lack of attendance.  I believe we ranked last or near the bottom for almost all of the franchises we have had here.  I think that lack of attendance is due to the fact that we look down on other leagues that are not considered the Big 5, and maybe 6 if you include MLS, or we just don't have the interest to attend.  Not sure what we can do to change that.



#5 steave

steave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 324 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bryant Irvin + Vickery

Posted 30 April 2024 - 05:53 PM

I mean, when it comes to minor league sports, it's mostly baseball, soccer, or something weird like lacrosse

 

Most of Fort Worth is close enough to Arlington that the Rangers are the local baseball team. Weird stuff like lacrosse doesn't stick around long enough. AT&T Stadium is too appealing for XFL/USFL/non-NFL football, and for minor league or non-MLS soccer. Lacrosse is neat but it's probably just not a huge thing and they'll move to wherever offers exist for venues that make business sense.

 

I do think that in a worst-case scenario where the Stars or Mavs leave the AA center and if they moved far away to Collin County, then I think Fort Worth should try for a minor league hockey or NBA development league team. Both would fit into Dickies Arena with some upgrades. I really rather that not happen though, hopefully after the 2030s leases end for the Mavs and Stars they stay in Dallas. But who knows.

 

Minor league hockey games are actually entertaining unlike most minor league sports. I don't know if that's possibly in decline though. They used to have minor league teams in Belton (near Killeen-Temple) and Austin but they folded.



#6 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,708 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dirty suburbs

Posted 30 April 2024 - 07:19 PM

The Mavs are probably moving to the area near the Texas Stadium site.  The new owners have purchased land there.

 

It took a lot of money for Dallas to coax the Wings out of a nice arena in Arlington and into that toilet connected to the convention center.  It makes the FWCC arena look like the Taj Mahal.  It's a big gamble that the current hype surrounding women's basketball is sustainable.



#7 Jeriat

Jeriat

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,316 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SWFW

Posted 30 April 2024 - 08:43 PM

FW has never really supported any of the teams they do get.  

The Cats were supported for decades... they're not here anymore because the owner decided to pack up and abandon everything instead of finding a new league.
The Vaqueros, despite being a small, bottom of the pyramid team has had support and been around for about a decade.

So that's not true, but keep in mind, outside of baseball, minor league sports teams don't really do as well, simply because they're minor league teams.

We live in an area where there's another, larger city 30 miles away and unlike Oakland, we weren't considered big enough in the 1960s to gain any major league teams for ourselves. 


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#8 Jeriat

Jeriat

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,316 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SWFW

Posted 30 April 2024 - 08:51 PM

I don't really think anyone in our city cares that we don't have a bona fide "Fort Worth" sports franchise.

I've been hearing "Bring back The Cats" since 2014. 

Pretty sure there are several Fort Worthians who've wanted major pro sports teams for our own. It's just not going to happen any time soon because outside of NY and L.A., you're not going to see any markets with two teams in the same league.

Chicago is an outlier, but that's only because both the Cubs and White Sox have around since the early 1900s and they were grandfathered in. But even then, it's not like there haven't been talks of the White Sox leaving and having the Cubs be Chicagoland's MLB franchise.

Our only thing close to a "major" league team is Panther City LC, but that's lacrosse, and it's still a niche sport here. Dallas had an outdoor lacrosse team and that's since been non-existent since 2020.

There's multiple reasons why Fort Worth doesn't have an NFL or NBA or MLB or NHL team to call its own, but saying that "no one cares" isn't 100% accurate.


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#9 steave

steave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 324 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bryant Irvin + Vickery

Posted 30 April 2024 - 09:16 PM

It's not impossible for DFW to get a second pro sports team of the same league some day. The metro area is getting to be large enough for that. But LA shows that this doesn't mean they wouldn't both co-locate, like the Rams and Chargers and historically the Clippers and Lakers.

 

I think the real answer is obvious, the Rangers and Cowboys are both DFW teams and as long as they are in Arlington or Irving or whatever and neither Dallas nor Fort Worth it makes it awkward. If there is ever a doubled up pro team in the area, my prediction is it would go to some other suburb or Dallas in a competitive bidding contest that Fort Worth would not enter or lose in the first round of because it's not Fort Worth's thing to spend eleventy-gazillion dollars on a stadium.



#10 txbornviking

txbornviking

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,480 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arlington Heights

Posted 01 May 2024 - 07:37 AM

My line of thinking seems to heavily run contrary to the consensus opinion posted, but honestly, as long as major sports teams come begging for hundreds of millions (and soon no doubt BILLIONS) in taxpayer handouts every 15-20years, I don't have any interest in our city playing that game.



#11 hannerhan

hannerhan

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 926 posts
  • Location:Ft Worth

Posted 01 May 2024 - 09:01 AM

It's also worth remembering that Dallasites generally believe that they're getting screwed in favor of Fort Worth when it comes to the Rangers and Cowboys. Your average Dallas person lives well North of downtown. Rough math based on maps, I'd say that the average FW commute is 18-23 miles and the average Dallas commute is 23-28 miles. As said above, I'm happy with that proximity and the fact that FW doesn't have to pay for all of it.



#12 SCHMJDT

SCHMJDT

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 96 posts
  • Location:FORT WORTH

Posted 01 May 2024 - 12:18 PM

Some notes to know.  NHL bylaws state no expansion team granted within 100 miles of existing franchise.  So unlike the usual expansion where you'd have to pay the fee, have the owners approve, here you would need unanimous support, plus likely supplement the existing franchise to allow it.
 
"Section 4.3 Territorial Rights of Members states "No other member of the league shall be permitted to play games...in the home territory of a member without the latter member's consent."  i.e., stars could alone veto it.
 
MLB doesn't define as well, but seen examples from the Expos moving to DC which cost millions over several years and initial broadcast rights of the Nats being owned by the Orioles.  And more recently the Giants single handily blocking the A's from moving to San Jose which is 40 miles from San Francisco, even though Oakland is much closer . . .
 
In 2016 after the opening of Barclays Center which moved the Nets to Brooklyn they revised the territorial rights for NBA teams from 75 miles to 150 miles so long as it doesn't encroach on an existing teams pre-existing 75 mile rights.  Again, Mavs could say no
 
In the NFL there is much less chance, but the rules are .  . . "franchise covers 'Home Territory' (the 75 miles surrounding the city limits, or, if the team is within 100 miles of another league city, half the distance between the two cities) and 'Home Marketing Area' (Home Territory plus the rest of the state the club operates in, as well as the area the team operates its training camp in for the duration of the camp"  The biggest issue here is Jerry Jones and Legends, they control the marketing rights for several teams, management rights of several others venues, and are building operators for about 1/3. So even in a charger to LA where Kroenke gave the go ahead because he got paid like crazy and gets the charge and annual rent for Sofi  . . . Jerry would get a King's Ransom or say no, and most of the league would support him.  Just look at the Texan's deal when Houston entered back into the league.
 
Below I put together a little map showing the boundaries.  The Cowboys in Gray with blue border is a tough one to show based on the NFL terming the city limits, and assuming Arlington here, plus the allowance for Frisco with the Star and their training compound.  The Rangers in red is based on 41 miles from the current precedent of the Giants v A's.  And the final two are straightforward based on Bylaws for the Stars and Mavs.
 
 
 
but the biggest point made above, is at a minimum of 500 million for an expansion fee and 1.5-2 billion for a stadium, who in Fort Worth is putting up that kind of money before compensating the existing rights holder for a new team.  I would expect the minimum barrier to entry would be;
 
NHL - 4 Billion
NBA - 5 Billion
MLB  - 7 Billion (cost of stadium much higher, team much closer so buyout will be larger)
NFL - Just for fun lets say 15, since Jerry is going to get paid.


#13 rriojas71

rriojas71

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,695 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Earth

Posted 01 May 2024 - 06:07 PM

 

FW has never really supported any of the teams they do get.  

The Cats were supported for decades... they're not here anymore because the owner decided to pack up and abandon everything instead of finding a new league.
The Vaqueros, despite being a small, bottom of the pyramid team has had support and been around for about a decade.

So that's not true 

Jeriat I see what you are trying to say but you actually proved my point for me even better than I could have.  The only teams you say that we support or have supported are a team team that plays in a bottom rung soccer league and a baseball team, which I would say supported for about a decade, that played in a small stadium in a bottom tier league not associated with MLB.  To me those are not very strong cases. 

 

BTW, I am going to opening day for the Vaqueros who are now playing their games at Castleberry High School's W.O. Barnes Stadium which I am actually excited about.  Feels like it will be an intimate setting for soccer.

 

Believe me, I wish we had better fandom but I am only going what I have experienced growing up and living here.  These are my cases for why I say we don't support our teams.

 

Fort Worth Cavalry (Arena Football) - 1 year

Fort Worth Flyers (NBADL) - 2 years

Fort Worth Fire (CHL) - 7 years

Panther City Lacrosse (NLL) - 2 years and current

 

All these teams had/have the lowest average attendance for their respective leagues.  That, to me, speaks volumes about the city's fanbase.  Maybe if it was an MLS team it would be different and the city and fanbase could get behind the team but I don't think we really stand a chance on getting any of the Big 4.



#14 Jeriat

Jeriat

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,316 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SWFW

Posted 01 May 2024 - 06:32 PM

 

 

FW has never really supported any of the teams they do get.  

The Cats were supported for decades... they're not here anymore because the owner decided to pack up and abandon everything instead of finding a new league.
The Vaqueros, despite being a small, bottom of the pyramid team has had support and been around for about a decade.

So that's not true 

 

 

Believe me, I wish we had better fandom but I am only going what I have experienced growing up and living here.  These are my cases for why I say we don't support our teams.

 

Fort Worth Cavalry (Arena Football) - 1 year

Fort Worth Flyers (NBADL) - 2 years

Fort Worth Fire (CHL) - 7 years

Panther City Lacrosse (NLL) - 2 years and current

 

All these teams had/have the lowest average attendance for their respective leagues.  That, to me, speaks volumes about the city's fanbase.  

- An Arena League team in the early 90s, when the league wasn't as profitable. 
- Minor league with poor ownership 
- Minor league 
- Niche Sport...

 


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#15 rriojas71

rriojas71

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,695 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Earth

Posted 02 May 2024 - 11:12 AM

 

 

 

FW has never really supported any of the teams they do get.  

The Cats were supported for decades... they're not here anymore because the owner decided to pack up and abandon everything instead of finding a new league.
The Vaqueros, despite being a small, bottom of the pyramid team has had support and been around for about a decade.

So that's not true 

 

 

Believe me, I wish we had better fandom but I am only going what I have experienced growing up and living here.  These are my cases for why I say we don't support our teams.

 

Fort Worth Cavalry (Arena Football) - 1 year

Fort Worth Flyers (NBADL) - 2 years

Fort Worth Fire (CHL) - 7 years

Panther City Lacrosse (NLL) - 2 years and current

 

All these teams had/have the lowest average attendance for their respective leagues.  That, to me, speaks volumes about the city's fanbase.  

- An Arena League team in the early 90s, when the league wasn't as profitable. 
- Minor league with poor ownership 
- Minor league 
- Niche Sport...

 

 

Actually the Arena League is still going on and was in full swing in it's popularity when they came to FW.  I went to the inaugural season so I'm not just speculating, however it was low attendance that drew them away.

 

So you said I was wrong about FW supporting hometown teams.  So with your response to my examples about them being minor league or niche teams where are you getting the numbers to prove that I am wrong?  I'm not trying to create an argument I am just trying to see if I am missing something.



#16 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,368 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Southside

Posted 02 May 2024 - 11:29 AM

If I could have anything, It'd be an NWSL or a USL team with their own soccer specific stadium. Dream would be a renovation of Farrington. 

An AHL or ECHL team at Dickies would be incredible too but would have rodeo scheduling challenges. 



#17 Lobster Eastside

Lobster Eastside

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 60 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Grapevne,Texas

Posted 02 May 2024 - 11:34 AM

If I could have anything, It'd be an NWSL or a USL team with their own soccer specific stadium. Dream would be a renovation of Farrington. 

An AHL or ECHL team at Dickies would be incredible too but would have rodeo scheduling challenges. 

 

I still think Will Rogers would be a good place again for ECHL or AHL hockey.  There has to be enough revenue I would hope to replace the ice plant.....



#18 rriojas71

rriojas71

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,695 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Earth

Posted 02 May 2024 - 11:35 AM

Yes Austin.  You and I are on the same page about Farrington.  I sure hope it can be saved.  I do think Dickies would be a great location for hockey.  Keeping Farrington would also make WRMC kind of like our default sports district.



#19 Jeriat

Jeriat

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,316 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SWFW

Posted 02 May 2024 - 02:50 PM


 


 


 


FW has never really supported any of the teams they do get.  

The Cats were supported for decades... they're not here anymore because the owner decided to pack up and abandon everything instead of finding a new league.
The Vaqueros, despite being a small, bottom of the pyramid team has had support and been around for about a decade.

So that's not true 
 
 
Believe me, I wish we had better fandom but I am only going what I have experienced growing up and living here.  These are my cases for why I say we don't support our teams.
 
Fort Worth Cavalry (Arena Football) - 1 year
Fort Worth Flyers (NBADL) - 2 years
Fort Worth Fire (CHL) - 7 years
Panther City Lacrosse (NLL) - 2 years and current
 
All these teams had/have the lowest average attendance for their respective leagues.  That, to me, speaks volumes about the city's fanbase.  
- An Arena League team in the early 90s, when the league wasn't as profitable. 
- Minor league with poor ownership 
- Minor league 
- Niche Sport...

 
 
Actually the Arena League is still going on and was in full swing in it's popularity when they came to FW.  I went to the inaugural season so I'm not just speculating, however it was low attendance that drew them away.
 
So you said I was wrong about FW supporting hometown teams.  So with your response to my examples about them being minor league or niche teams where are you getting the numbers to prove that I am wrong?  I'm not trying to create an argument I am just trying to see if I am missing something.

1. This is NOT the same Arena League from that era. It shut down sometime around the 2010s and just came back this past week... it didn't start off very well.

2.Yeah, I said you were wrong about Fort Worth never supporting its teams and I have you examples of the ones that were.

I said a lot more, earlier.

7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#20 FortWorthian

FortWorthian

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,490 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 07 July 2024 - 02:46 PM

Fort Worth, Texas, is the weirdest major league city in the United States

BY MAC ENGEL JULY 06, 2024 12:00 AM
https://www.star-tel...l#storylink=cpy

#21 cjyoung

cjyoung

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,792 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Funkytown

Posted 02 October 2024 - 10:09 PM

Most people aren't going to support at minor league team when there are major league teams within driving distance.

 

I do believe there has been a desire to have Fort Worth branded team for a while now. We have the population and money to support hoops, hockey and/or soccer.

 

I heard for years the ridiculous notion that Fort Worth couldn't support a high-end shopping development like Clearfork! Look at what's happening in the Stockyards. 

 

Our problem has been small-time thinking. Stockyards redevelopment, Crescent FW, Bowie House, Texas A&M-Fort Worth all could happen many years ago.



#22 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,368 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Southside

Posted 11 June 2025 - 12:09 PM

Hmm...

 

https://www.uslfw.com/



#23 Jeriat

Jeriat

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,316 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SWFW

Posted 11 June 2025 - 07:27 PM

They're trying again, forreal, this time?

Well, then . . . 

Gkn9FVC.jpg


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#24 elpingüino

elpingüino

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,594 posts

Posted 12 June 2025 - 06:21 PM

At first I wondered if the site was a relic from an earlier effort years ago, but the domain was just registered in May. So that's promising.
https://lookup.icann.org/en/lookup

#25 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,368 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Southside

Posted 13 June 2025 - 11:53 AM

Lotta smoke between this and whatever is going on at Farrington.

#26 Doohickie

Doohickie

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,352 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Hills

Posted 17 June 2025 - 05:56 AM

 

They're trying again, forreal, this time?

Well, then . . . 

Gkn9FVC.jpg

 

The Flyers were our high school mascot (Maryvale High School in Cheektowaga, NY).  While I was there the mascot was Snoopy in WWI Flying Ace garb.  They changed it several years ago to a Pegasus.  I guess a Flyer can be just about anything from a gnat to an A380.


My blog: Doohickie

#27 FortWorthian

FortWorthian

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,490 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 17 June 2025 - 07:49 AM

 

 

They're trying again, forreal, this time?

Well, then . . . 
 

 

The Flyers were our high school mascot (Maryvale High School in Cheektowaga, NY).  While I was there the mascot was Snoopy in WWI Flying Ace garb.  They changed it several years ago to a Pegasus.  I guess a Flyer can be just about anything from a gnat to an A380.

 

 

Since WWI Flying Ace was Snoopy's alter ego, I wonder if copyright issues eventually became an issue for the school or it just became obsolete for modern high schoolers?  Kind of cool if it looked anything like this?

 

fwoW3fp.png



#28 Jeriat

Jeriat

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,316 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SWFW

Posted 17 June 2025 - 09:09 AM


 


Hmm...
 
https://www.uslfw.com/

They're trying again, forreal, this time?

Well, then . . . 

Gkn9FVC.jpg
 
The Flyers were our high school mascot (Maryvale High School in Cheektowaga, NY).  While I was there the mascot was Snoopy in WWI Flying Ace garb.  They changed it several years ago to a Pegasus.  I guess a Flyer can be just about anything from a gnat to an A380.

It was also a short lived NBA D-League team.

I still like the name because of the city's aviation and WWII history. Not sure if that was the reasoning behind their name, though.

7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#29 Doohickie

Doohickie

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,352 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Hills

Posted 17 June 2025 - 10:21 AM

 

 

 

They're trying again, forreal, this time?

Well, then . . . 
 

 

The Flyers were our high school mascot (Maryvale High School in Cheektowaga, NY).  While I was there the mascot was Snoopy in WWI Flying Ace garb.  They changed it several years ago to a Pegasus.  I guess a Flyer can be just about anything from a gnat to an A380.

 

 

Since WWI Flying Ace was Snoopy's alter ego, I wonder if copyright issues eventually became an issue for the school or it just became obsolete for modern high schoolers?  Kind of cool if it looked anything like this?

 

fwoW3fp.png

 

Yes on both counts. After decades with a Snoopy mascot, they finally were contacted by the Schulz estate and told to stop.  

 

The cheer mascots were one character dressed as Snoopy and another dressed as the Red Baron (who represented the opposing team and always met an undignified demise).

 

The name comes from the fact that the high school is just west of Buffalo Airport.


My blog: Doohickie




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users