315 replies to this topic

[Austin55]

Good news for the TRE, which received $25M in Federal BUILD grant funds,

 

 

PROJECTDESCRIPTION: This project makes commuter and freight rail capacity improvements between Fort Worth and Dallas including: (1) approximately 1.2 miles of double track from Medical Market Center to Stemmons Freeway; (2) approximately 2.4 miles of second track from Handley Ederville Road to Precinct Line Road; and (3) implementing Clear Path technology to exchange information on train movement in the terminal complex.

PROJECT HIGHLIGHTS AND BENEFITS: By replacing or upgrading bridges and double-tracking portions of Dallas Area Rapid Transit’s (DART) Trinity Railway Express corridor that also accommodates Amtrak and freight movement, the project will increase reliability and decrease travel time of commuter and freight train movements. The project rehabilitates or replaces aging bridges whose current condition results in speed restrictions. The project installs Clear Path technology for agencies and users to exchange timely and accurate information on train movements to improve rail throughput, safety, and on‐time performance in congested, urban rail corridors. 

 

[txbornviking]

Good news for the TRE, which received $25M in Federal BUILD grant funds,

 

 

PROJECTDESCRIPTION: This project makes commuter and freight rail capacity improvements between Fort Worth and Dallas including: (1) approximately 1.2 miles of double track from Medical Market Center to Stemmons Freeway; (2) approximately 2.4 miles of second track from Handley Ederville Road to Precinct Line Road; and (3) implementing Clear Path technology to exchange information on train movement in the terminal complex.

PROJECT HIGHLIGHTS AND BENEFITS: By replacing or upgrading bridges and double-tracking portions of Dallas Area Rapid Transit’s (DART) Trinity Railway Express corridor that also accommodates Amtrak and freight movement, the project will increase reliability and decrease travel time of commuter and freight train movements. The project rehabilitates or replaces aging bridges whose current condition results in speed restrictions. The project installs Clear Path technology for agencies and users to exchange timely and accurate information on train movements to improve rail throughput, safety, and on‐time performance in congested, urban rail corridors. 

 

 

once complete, any idea what percentage of the TRE line will be double-tracked?

[Dylan]

Almost all of the TRE's Dallas County portion would be double tracked, except for about a one mile stretch west of Downtown Irving Station and a teeny tiny section north of Union Station.

 

A little more than half of the TRE's Tarrant County portion would be double tracked. Stretches of the 121 corridor and northern Arlington corridor would remain single track.

 

Overall, more than three quarters of the route would be double tracked. I wonder if this would allow the TRE to run better than 30-minute headways.

 

Here is what the current double-track map looks like: https://www.scribble...king/htEz_QJvoe

[Austin55]

That map is a great resource. Thanks Dylan.

[Austin55]

TRE is also getting new information systems too. I think this is sorely needed as the signs and automated station announcements have malfunctioned on so many rides I've been on. 

https://www.railpage...-to-be-replaced

[Austin55]

Proposal to Modify Trinity Railway Express (TRE) Schedule to Add Sunday Service

https://www.fortwort...oard-agenda.pdf

[John T Roberts]

This would be great.  That would also mean a bicycle ride to Dallas and catching the train back would be possible on a Sunday.

[Stadtplan]

This would be great.  That would also mean a bicycle ride to Dallas and catching the train back would be possible on a Sunday.

What route would you take?

[John T Roberts]

It's pretty tricky, and includes a mix of trails and road.  There are a lot of turns.  My last ride that I did with some FWBA friends was in January of 2019.  They did more street riding than I would have liked, but we did it.  Then, the next day with another group from the FWBA, we rode from Grand Prairie to Dallas and back.  Both rides are on my Strava account.  Here are the links:  Fort Worth to Dallas and TRE Home  Grand Prairie to Dallas and Back on Trails

[Stadtplan]

That is an interesting route FW to D. I have driven all of those roads for many years but never biked them. You could also cut down from Randol Mill to John T White and hit the trail along Green Oaks Blvd through River Legacy.

You know what would be a fun route is downtown FW to Irving Convention Center and then take the Orange Line and TexRail back to FW. Campion Trail goes right into Las Colinas.

[John T Roberts]

Again, my friends planned the route.  If you look on the ride a different group did on the next day, you see we used more of the trails from Grand Prairie to Dallas, and we also stayed off of most of Irving Blvd. by staying on the side streets.  As all of the cities are expanding the trails, it will get easier to ride between Fort Worth and Dallas on a trail instead of a street.

[NThomas]

DART's April 13th meeting had a couple TRE topics about cost allocation changes, and dedicated staffing independent from Trinity Metro and DART:

https://www.dart.org...m11_13apr21.pdf

[Austin55]

TRE celebrating a quarter century. 
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/TRE25

[JBB]

The extension to downtown Fort Worth turned 20 years old earlier this month.

[Austin55]

TRE's ridership numbers still pretty low compared to pre-pandemic, but much higher than 2020 and 2021.

[Dylan]

For a year during the pandemic, I rode TEXRail nearly every day to / from work at the airport.

 

But, I did not ride the TRE from March 2020 until October 2021 when I went the state fair.

 

Prior to the pandemic, TEXRail had poor ridership. But, the TRE had decent ridership. The parking lot for Richland Hills station was almost always full on weekdays. I was shocked when I returned in October 2021 and the west parking lot was no more than 1/5 full... on a weekday during the state fair.

[Austin55]

Hard to see the construction from surrounding roads, but the drone makes it easy to see. 

 

[Dylan]

This is going to be more difficult to access by car than the current Richland Hills station.

 

It would be nice if Trinity Metro could build a park-and ride for the TRE somewhere between 35W and 820 (preferably at Beach Street).

[Dylan]

The TRE will be hosting "Meet the Management" events this week.

 

On Wednesday Sept. 21, they will be at Central Station at 7am.

On Thursday Sept. 22, they will be at Union Station at 4pm.

On Friday, Sept. 23, they will be at Centreport Station at 7am.

 

It doesn't look like I'll be able to attend these. If anyone can attend, I have a few things I would like to pass on:

 

- There needs to be a park-and-ride station between 35W and 820 for those of us who drive to the train.

 

- If the TRE ever switches to Stadler FLIRTs, the TRE needs a different seating configuration from TEXRail's seating configuration. There are very few forward facing seats on the left side of any TEXRail train in either direction. Of the forward facing seats on the right side of any TEXRail train in either direction, many seats look onto pillars between windows.

 

- The TRE is the primary link between the region's two large metropolitan anchors. It ought to run at 30 minute headways all day every day. That includes evenings, Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays.

 

Thank you!

[Volare]

...

- The TRE is the primary link between the region's two large metropolitan anchors. It ought to run at 30 minute headways all day every day. That includes evenings, Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays.

 

 

 

Surely there are comparisons that could be made about the service between D and FW on the TRE. Perhaps Oakland-San Fran, Minneapolis- St. Paul, etc...

[Austin55]

Had not seen a site plan of the Trinity Lakes station shared,

 

[Austin55]

 

...

- The TRE is the primary link between the region's two large metropolitan anchors. It ought to run at 30 minute headways all day every day. That includes evenings, Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays.

 

 

 

Surely there are comparisons that could be made about the service between D and FW on the TRE. Perhaps Oakland-San Fran, Minneapolis- St. Paul, etc...

 

 

Interesting comparison. Here's a few I found, 

 

Minneapolis – St. Paul (Green Line, light rail, 11 miles in length)

 

 

METRO Green Line trains charge the same fares as the METRO Blue Line and operate seven days a week. Trips operate every 10 minutes throughout the day, and every 10-15 minutes in the evenings. 

 

The MARC Penn Line between Washington and Baltimore runs somewhat similar to TRE but is rather irregular. This line is also duplicated by the Accela so that could be factored in. 

 

https://www.mta.mary...table/marc-penn
 

[Jeriat]

Hard to see the construction from surrounding roads, but the drone makes it easy to see. 

 

 

Looks like a train set being put together. 

[Austin55]

It really does! 

I wish Trinity Metro would pursue purchasing those warehouses to the right (north) side of that photo. They would make great sites for parking lots for park and rides. It's Immediately adjacent to the station, easier to access if coming from 121 or 820, and would allow more room for development in Trinity Lakes.

[rriojas71]

I wish there was a train station at Beach. that way there is a stop in the middle of downtown and the Trinity Lakes station.  I know people have mentioned the grain silos as a potential apartment but that was a few years back.  I think they could really create a TOD along this area. 

[RD Milhollin]

It really does! 

I wish Trinity Metro would pursue purchasing those warehouses to the right (north) side of that photo. They would make great sites for parking lots for park and rides. It's Immediately adjacent to the station, easier to access if coming from 121 or 820, and would allow more room for development in Trinity Lakes.

Is purchasing tax-generating business property part of Trinity Metro's mission, especially when they could get land for near-free from developers wanting a commuter station to anchor their projects? The development to the south of the tracks looks to remain suburban / low density and is planned with parking to meet projected needs. The owners of the warehouses could use their own financing to convert their land's uses to commercial or residential or mixed use if they see the potential for profit from the location. IMO the strapped transit agency needs to focus on providing transit and transportation within the budget it has, and planning for future opportunities by developing a long-term strategic plan and securing key properties now that would allow those routes to be guaranteed when the time comes.

[Stadtplan]

Saturday, December 3, 2022

https://trinityrailw...ress.org/Santa/

(By the way, adding [img] and [\img] before and after an image URL when posting on your phone, does result in displaying the image. I hit ENTER ENTER after the [\img] for good measure.)

[Austin55]

DART is seeking $295,142,038 for a new TRE fleet. 

 

 

TRE’s current fleet consists largely of vehicles running in extended service life. Most vehicles are in excess of 25 years of age. Part availability is increasingly limited and many parts and components are obsolete and cannot be replaced. The vehicles are so old that newer technologies cannot be successfully deployed on the trains.

[Dylan]

At the TEXRail anniversary event at Central Station a few days ago, I met someone from the marketing department.

 

I brought up TRE fleet replacement, and suggested that if they decide to replace the current TRE fleet with Stadler FLIRTs, they need a different seating configuration than TEXRail due to lack of forward seats on the left side.

 

She said that they (Trinity Metro) weren't considering replacing the current TRE fleet anytime soon- only new seat cushions.

 

There's apparently a disconnect between Trinity Metro and DART.

[Stadtplan]

$300M used to seem like a shockingly large figure but now thats just a drop in the bucket, I guess.

[Crestline]

How much did it cost to purchase TEXRail's Stadler FLIRT fleet?

[steave]

I suppose it wouldn't hurt if they had the same fleet as TexRail and the future Silver Line. Since the three different lines are owned by the same two agencies they could rotate trains around as needed.

 

Also if the trains were the same there would be no hard engineering reason why they couldn't run TRE to the future Medical District station.

[RD Milhollin]

 

DART is seeking $295,142,038 for a new TRE fleet. 

 

 

TRE’s current fleet consists largely of vehicles running in extended service life. Most vehicles are in excess of 25 years of age. Part availability is increasingly limited and many parts and components are obsolete and cannot be replaced. The vehicles are so old that newer technologies cannot be successfully deployed on the trains.

 

Might this be a good time to electrify? and, um, how about Sunday service...

[Electricron]

From DART FLIRTs with Stadler for $119M contract - Railway Age = $119 Million for 8 train sets and maintenance facility design in 2019

and TEXRail - Wikipedia = $106.7 million for 8 train sets in 2015

 

Therefore, each 4 car Flirt DMU train set sold for $13.3 million in 2015 and approximately $14.9 million in 2019.

 

If, per chance, DART and Trinity Rail agreed to buy more Flirts for the TRE, how many train sets do you think they would need?

Remember, the seating capacity of the TexRail and Silver Line Flirts are approximately 240 seats with a theorical 225 additional standing. 

Each Bombardier BiLevel coach car on the TRE has up to 160 seats with an additional 270 standing. So two BiLevel cars exceed the capacity of an entire Stadler Flirt train. Does TRE not run 4 car trains during the rush hours anymore?

[Austin55]

The last several times Ive ridden TRE theres only been two cars per train.

[Stadtplan]

So funny you mentioned that, I just took this photo yesterday afternoon thinking, hmm, only two cars.

(For bonus points, can anyone name the road I am on?)

[NThomas]

So funny you mentioned that, I just took this photo yesterday afternoon thinking, hmm, only two cars.

(For bonus points, can anyone name the road I am on?)

E Rock Island Rd in Irving: https://maps.app.goo...KZCEyUGzLYbpDk6

I followed Google Maps eastward from Central Station to find this, and never realized how few stretches along the TRE line there isn't a parallel road until you get to this photo.

[Stadtplan]

You got it! I was over there yesterday to visit a repair shop. The TRE barn and yard is not far from here and you can see some of the old / original railcars too.
https://goo.gl/maps/iYDWvWvqYnV424wQ7

One of the most dangerous TRE crossings is here at Calloway Cemetery Rd. just east of N. Collins. It has a lot of truck traffic and a blind approach.
https://goo.gl/maps/hkoYjwLzp9wmeZKK8

[Stadtplan]

Pedestrian gets hit and killed by TRE and S-T doesnt miss a beat with slightly inappropriate cookie-based TRE advertising.

[Austin55]

Trinity Lakes Station delayed until "Early 2024" per board update

 

 

Trinity Metro is also responsible for the construction of two parking lots to be constructed according to engineering plans prepared by and on land owned by the Developer.  Trinity Metro was scheduled to issue an Invitation for Bid (IFB) in February 2023 to construct the two parking lots totaling 495 parking spaces.  Unfortunately, we have not received the agreed to documents (i.e., final signed and sealed design plans and specifications) from the developer so that we could proceed as intended with procurement in February.  In order to move forward without further delay, Trinity Metro must now complete the final design and procurement documents on behalf of the Developer. This has caused a delay to the anticipated completion of the parking lots from October 2023 to early 2024.  Further, the Developer is responsible for constructing the access road from Trinity Boulevard to the new station and bringing utilities to the new station.  Although we have had several assurances from the Developer that the access roadway would be delivered before the anticipated station opening in October 2023, we still have not seen the plans for the roadway and are unsure that the roadway can be delivered in the previously agreed to timeframe.  Public access to the station depends entirely on the Developer completing the access road and utility connections.  We are working on a backup plan with the City of Fort Worth to provide an alternate means of access. 

The ability for Trinity Metro or other parties to construct the parking lots or access road will require agreement with the Developer, creating significant uncertainty with the overall project schedule. Trinity Metro will continue to work with the Developer to get the information needed including plans, documents and agreements.  We will also provide more frequent updates to the Board regarding the status of the project. 

https://ridetrinitymetro.org/meetings/

[Crestline]

Trinity Lakes Station delayed until "Early 2024" per board update

 

 

That's weird; seems like I've read plenty on these forums about developer construction delays, but not developer planning delays as is the case here.

[Austin55]

Proposal to Modify Trinity Railway Express (TRE) Schedule to Add Sunday Service

https://www.fortwort...oard-agenda.pdf

 

Has anyone ever heard why this never got implemented?

[rriojas71]

Most likely it is was a funding decision based on not truly knowing the demand for it.

[Austin55]

TRE to get some upgrades, including new locomotives (Siemens Chargers from what I've heard elsewhere): https://communityimp...express-trains/

[steave]

Interesting. Are they going to ever get new passenger cars?

 

Also this rules out them switching to DMU's sometime in the near future, then.

[Electricron]

Interesting. Are they going to ever get new passenger cars?

 

Also this rules out them switching to DMU's sometime in the near future, then.

Soon.  According to that news from February 2024, Trinity Metro, DART, and the RTC (NCTCOG) will each provide $30 Million. 

Some math = 3x30 = 90

Presently, I believe the TRE owns 17 BiLevel cars and 10 locomotives, all the locomotives being at least 20 years old.

Note, the easy link for price for locomotives I found was

"MARC announced in August 2015 that it was seeking $58 million to purchase eight locomotives to replace their aging electric-powered AEM-7 units, with deliveries planned for late 2017."

More math = 58/8 = 7.25 

Therefore the price for each locomotive was $7.25 million. Assuming TRE will wish to replace all ten existing locomotives, that price would be $72.5 Million.

That still leaves $18 million potentially for new coaches, or maybe account for the last 10 years of inflation?

But with new locomotives, will they still need 10? 

 

There is too many freight trains running on the TRE tracks between Irving and downtown Dallas to allow only night time operations to use Alternate Compliant FRA trains like the FLIRTs. I wish that was not true. I would like to see FLIRTs running on the TRE too. 

But $90 million does not even match what TexRail spent on their 8 FLIRT trainsets. Trinity Metro spent almost $107 million for theirs.

[steave]

Interesting

 

My opinion on TRE rolling stock is basically this - every time i've ridden it the AC has been struggling in at least one of the cars. Also the arm rests are weird on the window seats in the downstairs area. Those things could be fixed if they did a refurbishment on the existing cars. A new locomotive would not drastically change the experience of riding the train, though I understand they don't last forever. And they have a pretty strong diesel soot smell when accelerating that gets into the cars. Maybe new locomotives would allow trains to accelerate more quickly too, who knows.

 

The TexRail trains are nice because they are single-level, I think that could indirectly help with the vibe because you wouldn't have an unsupervised upstairs for bums and other characters to loiter in. Plus they should in theory board faster.

[Jeriat]

Kinda wish they would just go with Stadler, as well.

(KISS 200)

[steave]

My other thought is that if TRE used equipment that was similar in size, weight, turning radius, etc, then it's almost certain it could eventually run to the Southside Medical District station too. But as Electricron said, if they need conventional locomotives for crash safety because the TRE's line is shared with heavy freight, then whether or not locomotives + passenger cars would be able to use the extension is an unknown variable. Plus I know this is a dead horse topic and we've beaten it to death.

[Electricron]

Kinda wish they would just go with Stadler, as well.
 

To use Stadler built Kiss double decker trains, the TRE corridor would have to be electrified. 

CalTrains between SF and SJ have spent over a $Billion to do so on a 50 mile long corridor. The TRE corridor is 34 miles long, so that should be cheaper. But tthe CalTrains corridor was already double track all the way, the TRE corridor is not. So that improvement will cost much more.

A $Billion is 10 times more money than $90 Million. The TRE could replace their diesel locomotives at least 10 times for the same sum to electrify the TRE corridor. Which is the wiser choice of expenditure with limited funds?