254 replies to this topic

[Doohickie]

The old ownership had it... what?  10 years, give or take?  They tried to revitalize it and did some positive things, but didn't make the progress I think they hoped for.

 

Hopefully the new ownership can build on the positives of the old, infuse a little fresh enthusiasm, and bring it back some more.

 

I personally can't remember the last time I set foot in the place.

[RenaissanceMan]

I can't help but think that the vacancy rate there is a bit misleading considering how many non-traditional (for a mall) tenants they have that are leading space that are not retailers. I also have to wonder how much longer they keep Niemans and if/when it goes, does the rest of the mall enter into a significant decline?

[prideftw]

They need to update the parking and bring in the retail that makes young people like me want to go there

[Russ Graham]

 I also have to wonder how much longer they keep Niemans and if/when it goes, does the rest of the mall enter into a significant decline?

 

I don't have a good source on this (maybe somebody can confirm) but I was told that Neiman owns that part of the mall - they don't pay rent.  They were originally located on Camp Bowie (where the bomber spur crosses camp bowie) - that building is now occupied by the FWISD; they run a  vo-tech high school there.  But supposedly Neiman was given a permanant lease for $1 or something.

[Doohickie]

That site was a store, but I don't think it was Nieman's.

[John T Roberts]

Doohickie, I hate to tell you this, but you are incorrect.  The building where the FWISD Applied Learning Academy is located, which is across the street from my office, was originally constructed for Neiman Marcus.  It opened in 1962, and Neiman's occupied the building until 1976, when they moved to Ridgmar Mall.  It was my understanding that they were partial developers in building Ridgmar, so it wouldn't surprise me if they either had some kind of deal, they owned their store outright, or they were at one time partial owners of the mall property.

[richcal]

How's the Rave doing? It's been awhile since I've been there but it always seemed to be a lively spot unlike the rest of the mall.

[prideftw]

As far as I see its doing great I go all the time

[John T Roberts]

Neiman Marcus officially announced today that they would be vacating their 119,000 square foot store at the south end of Ridgmar Mall for a new 90,000 square foot store at The Shops of Clearfork.  This new development will have 500,000 square feet of space. 

 

What do you think this means for Ridgmar Mall?  Will they find a new tenant for Neiman's old space, or do you think they will redevelop that portion of the mall? 

[David Love]

I've not been to a mall in close to a decade, I'm thinking they may need to rethink their business model, definitely scale things down a bit. 

 

When I can order something on Saturday NIGHT and it's on my doorstep on Sunday before noon: Why drive, park, wait in lines, then drive some more?

 

Maybe if they take the "come in and try it on before you order it" approach.

[Big Frog II]

Smart move by NM.  I really don't think this affects Ridgmar.  The NM crowd usually just went to that store only.  Probably just should divide the store or tear it down.

[hannerhan]

How could you not think this will affect Ridgmar?  You think the next renter is going to pay the same kind of price that NM has been paying?  And you're right that the crowd tends to not wander the rest of the mall, but there are certainly exceptions.  John L. Ashe, for one, is screwed.  This is a bad thing for Ridgmar, no doubt.

 

I'm excited at the notion that Simon should be bringing a lot of national brands that don't currently exist in Fort Worth.  The Domain's tenant list will hopefully be a pretty accurate representation.  I do think this development will suck up any high-end retail in town for the foreseeable future, which will cement the W. 7th area's reputation as the entertainment district, as opposed to being a real shopping district. 

 

If this hurts anyone other than Ridgmar Mall, I think it's the owners of the Left Bank project, who will now be fighting for scraps on the retail side of things.  I don't think Fort Worth has the shoppers for 2 powerful large new retail developments at the same time.

[John T Roberts]

I agree that this may leave Left Bank suffering.  I do think that Fort Worth is over-retailed and I still worry about all of the vacant retail space that is north of Ridgmar Mall.  Personally, I think Ridgmar should consider demolition of the Neiman Marcus store and everything south of the connection to the Rave Theater.  Then they should build a lifestyle complex at the south end of the mall.  I think that would revitalize the part of the mall left from Macy's southward.  Maybe a couple of restaurants could build in that area, as well.

[johnfwd]

I agree that this may leave Left Bank suffering.  I do think that Fort Worth is over-retailed and I still worry about all of the vacant retail space that is north of Ridgmar Mall.  Personally, I think Ridgmar should consider demolition of the Neiman Marcus store and everything south of the connection to the Rave Theater.  Then they should build a lifestyle complex at the south end of the mall.  I think that would revitalize the part of the mall left from Macy's southward.  Maybe a couple of restaurants could build in that area, as well.

I understand your point here about Fort Worth being, perhaps, "overly retail," an inference about market demand slacking on account of over-saturation.  But is market saturation occurring here, or is it a modern transformation from mall developments to mixed-use developments such as in the West 7th cultural district area.  As we have observed locally, more "Left Banks" and "River Bends" and "Clearforks" are being built these days.  When was the last time a developer built a mall around these parts?  This is an anecdotal, and intuitive, observation, but seems there's a ring of truth about it.

[NSFW]

I was always disappointed in the mens section of NM, they had a large area yet only carried very little. During their "Last Call" sale they had vast amount of clothing that was never available in store through the season. Now that they are going to down size will their section become even smaller?

 

John L. Ashe and Dillards are the only reason I go in the mall itself. Plus, I now live south of Dallas.  

[Papaw]

I never understood Neiman's policy of not accepting any credit cards but their own.  I realize the charge back fee but at their mark up I wouldn't think that would cost them that much and would cut into their sales.

It seems the crime rate has risen sharply on the West side of the city over the past several years and this could also hinder retail rental space at Ridgmar.

[Jeriat]

I agree that this may leave Left Bank suffering.  I do think that Fort Worth is over-retailed and I still worry about all of the vacant retail space that is north of Ridgmar Mall.  Personally, I think Ridgmar should consider demolition of the Neiman Marcus store and everything south of the connection to the Rave Theater.  Then they should build a lifestyle complex at the south end of the mall.  I think that would revitalize the part of the mall left from Macy's southward.  Maybe a couple of restaurants could build in that area, as well.

 

You say this may leave Left Bank suffering. 

I see it as an opportunity to look for something different. Something unexpected... 

[Austin55]

I don't think this decision will negatively affect Left Bank. New NM is 90,000 sqft. Biggest single non grocer retail outlet in Left Bank is 1/3 of that size, and it's not exactly ideally shaped for an oulet. The grocer isn't even 60k sqft. Left Bank was likely never designed for such a large retailer. I don't think it would have fit in anyway, unless NM had gone vertical.

[hannerhan]

It's not that Left Bank needed NM in order to do well.  It's that NM's presence at Clearfork is going to be a massive tailwind when it comes to getting other retailers to select that site over any other in town.  Look at the tenant list at The Domain in Austin.  Simon has said they want to bring a lot of those same tenants to Clearfork. 

 

If you are the Crate and Barrel development person, would you rather put your first Fort Worth store next to a brand new Neiman Marcus, or in another development that has no major retail anchor? 

[dfwerdoc]

the concessions cassco made to neimans was untenable to the other developers (i heard it was more than a million). cassco has always owned the land, trademark and centergy hasn't .... centergy has 40 dollars to the sq foot in just land and utility costs. left bank will be fine; they'lll pack it full of people and develop the tenants from bottom up rather than top down. i think this method may in fact be less risky especially when major retail tenants aren't what they used to be ......neimans has lost some of it's luster. it left ridgmar mall, what tenants wanted to be around it? 

[jefffwd]

Perhaps Left Bank could attract Nordstrom and Ridgmar could land Belk in the Neiman's space similar to the new Belk at Galleria Dallas.

[Jeriat]

Perhaps Left Bank could attract Nordstrom and Ridgmar could land Belk in the Neiman's space similar to the new Belk at Galleria Dallas.

 

Does Belk need more space than that or is it the same size? 

[jefffwd]

Well, the Belk at Alliance and McKinney are fairly small but do really great business. I think Ridgmar NM is 119,000 SF and the Galleria Belk is
180,000 SF. I am sure they could make it work... How big are the H&M stores? Just a thought.

[John T Roberts]

H&M stores are much smaller.  I just looked it up, and the average is between 20,000 and 25,000 square feet.

[David Love]

I never understood Neiman's policy of not accepting any credit cards but their own.  I realize the charge back fee but at their mark up I wouldn't think that would cost them that much and would cut into their sales.

It seems the crime rate has risen sharply on the West side of the city over the past several years and this could also hinder retail rental space at Ridgmar.

 

They accept a large number of credit cards now, I'm sure they wish they didn't, their recent hack which lost the account data for hundreds of thousands of customers, some VERY high end cards, "think" $7,500.00 a year maintenance fee" kind of high end.

 

They may be downsizing some due to the costs associated with covering their customer's losses.

[Urbndwlr]

Left Bank apparently isn't really chasing big loss leader anchors such as Neiman Marcus.  They did prematurely leak that they were interested in NM, but now the Left Bank plan only calls for about 100,000 SF of retail, of which 50,000 SF is a grocer.  That isn't a ton of retail space.

 

University Park Village and West Bend (across the street from it) are one cluster of apparel retail and presumably Clearfork will be another.  Those two clusters will certainly compete, although there is common ownership (Simon), which will likely mean that the two clusters will be friendly competitors.  

 

Regarding Clearfork competing with the Near West Side/ Cultural District, I imagine Clearfork is going to be a quasi-urban district, when complete, that will be be in part a mall substitute.  The costs of rent and operating expenses there will be so high that it will be almost all national chains, whereas there are a lot of smaller, independent, local and regional shops around 7th Street.  

 

Very different target tenants and visitor experiences.  The Domain in Austin is a great example of how Edwards Ranch's Clearfork will likely look and feel.  It's all brand new, and it feels that way.  

 

I think its good for Fort Worth to have multiple districts and destinations.  It is, however, a shame that Clearfork doesn't appear to have any potential connection to any future transit.  It will be a walkable district but the only way to get there is to drive.   Ultimately, Downtown, the Cultural District/Near West Side and The Near Southside will all be connected by good transit, which will make them great for people living in the central city and for visitors to Fort Worth.  

[NSFW]

I stopped by Neiman Marcus Thursday and walked the mall. Wow, Ridgmar has lost a lot of stores. Not sure what can be done to save it. 

[John T Roberts]

I had to go to Sears a few days ago, and I walked up to Dillard's and then down to Penney's and I was amazed on how the north end was starting to look like the south end.  Old Navy has remodeled and downsized, leaving some of its old space vacant.  There were a lot of vacancies between Sears and Dillard's.  The only part of the mall that seems to be active is the very center.

[NSFW]

It was depressing seeing the mall look so empty. As long as John L. Ashe is located within the mall I will stop in when I can, but I don't see them sticking around once Neiman Marcus is gone. Actually, John L. Ashe will be a great fit for Sundance Square. I still miss the Italia Express that used to be there, they always treated me right. On more than one occasion they gave me a whole pizza for the same price as a slice and a drink. 

 

Ridgmar mall and a lot of that vacant retail property sits on prime real estate in my opinion. With access to I-30 and Loop 820 very nearby this property would make a good location for new office space. 

[John T Roberts]

Now working in the area and seeing the vacant retail both in the mall and outside of it was the prompting my earlier statement that we are over retailed.  I realize that department stores and malls are slowly dying, but if Ridgmar was to close, a city of 750,000 would only have one mall. 

[Dismuke]

I don't think anything can be done to save Ridgmar - like John points out, malls are dying everywhere.  And who doesn't believe that Sear's days are numbered at the mall?  Even if the company manages to escape the fate of RadioShack, its overall strategy seems to be to transition into an Internet retailer.  If would be interesting if it manages to make and survive such a transition as the company would basically come back full circle to its mail order roots. But, if so, it won't likely need a store at Ridgmar.

As for Belk - I've never been in one so I can't really say if it would be a good fit or not.  But, if you were Belk and you could locate anyplace in Fort Worth, would you locate at Ridgmar Mall?  My guess is that most of the retailers currently at Ridgmar Mall wouldn't locate there if they didn't already have a store there.  And the more stores it loses the more likely it is that the place will lose critical mass and go into an irreversible downward spiral.

[Dismuke]

but if Ridgmar was to close, a city of 750,000 would only have one mall. 

 

My guess is there will be three malls that survive in Tarrant County:   Northeast, Hulen and The Parks.   Tarrant County's population is 1,911,541 according to a quick google search.  Divide that by three surviving malls and you get 637,183 per mall.

My guess is three malls will survive in all of Dallas County:  TownEast, NorthPark and the Galleria.   ValleyView is about to be bulldozed and redeveloped.  Irving Mall is declining rapidly.    Dallas County has a population around 2,480,000 - so that's about 826,666 per mall.    Dallas with a population of 1,257,676 would have two malls -  NorthPark and the Galleria - or about 628,838 per mall.

 

So the statistic about Fort Worth only having one mall is not too far out of the ordinary.

[John T Roberts]

NSFW, John L. Ashe used to be in downtown.  They were in the little building at the northeast corner of 8th and Main where Del Frisco's is now located. 

[NSFW]

NSFW, John L. Ashe used to be in downtown.  They were in the little building at the northeast corner of 8th and Main where Del Frisco's is now located. 

 

 

Yes, I do remember that. It might be the right time for them to move back. 

 

With Walsh Ranch and the development in River Oaks maybe, just maybe that will help turn the mall around. 

[Dallastar]

 

but if Ridgmar was to close, a city of 750,000 would only have one mall. 

 

My guess is there will be three malls that survive in Tarrant County:   Northeast, Hulen and The Parks.   Tarrant County's population is 1,911,541 according to a quick google search.  Divide that by three surviving malls and you get 637,183 per mall.

My guess is three malls will survive in all of Dallas County:  TownEast, NorthPark and the Galleria.   ValleyView is about to be bulldozed and redeveloped.  Irving Mall is declining rapidly.    Dallas County has a population around 2,480,000 - so that's about 826,666 per mall.    Dallas with a population of 1,257,676 would have two malls -  NorthPark and the Galleria - or about 628,838 per mall.

 

So the statistic about Fort Worth only having one mall is not too far out of the ordinary.

 

Would you count "FireWheel Mall" in Garland?

[NSFW]

 

 

but if Ridgmar was to close, a city of 750,000 would only have one mall. 

 

My guess is there will be three malls that survive in Tarrant County:   Northeast, Hulen and The Parks.   Tarrant County's population is 1,911,541 according to a quick google search.  Divide that by three surviving malls and you get 637,183 per mall.

My guess is three malls will survive in all of Dallas County:  TownEast, NorthPark and the Galleria.   ValleyView is about to be bulldozed and redeveloped.  Irving Mall is declining rapidly.    Dallas County has a population around 2,480,000 - so that's about 826,666 per mall.    Dallas with a population of 1,257,676 would have two malls -  NorthPark and the Galleria - or about 628,838 per mall.

 

So the statistic about Fort Worth only having one mall is not too far out of the ordinary.

 

Would you count "FireWheel Mall" in Garland?

 

Plus Southwest Center mall in south Dallas, I have no idea how the owners can afford to keep that place open. 

[JBB]

I think you could also make a case that the lifestyle center at 1382 and 67 in Cedar Hill is a mall.

[Austin55]

So would y'all consider Clearfork to be a mall then?

Obviously not in the traditional sense but its going to have afsirly high density of shops.

[John T Roberts]

Not long after announcing that H&M was coming to Sundance Square, today they announced that they would be taking up a space on the second level near Macy's.  Ridgmar Mall is also slated for a major remodel with that construction to start soon.

 

Here's the link in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram:

 

http://www.star-tele...le18494324.html

[jefffwd]

Perhaps Nordstrom or Belk will take over Neiman's space once they vacate?

[Urbndwlr]

Wow.  Surprised to read about the second H&M - at Ridgmar, no less.  I have been hoping Neiman Marcus would place its less expensive version in that box when they relocate.  Can't recall what they call it - think they have one in Grapevine. 

 

Someone mentioned IKEA - that would be a GREAT place for IKEA - dont know if RIdgmar has enough space - those are huge stores. 

 

 

Fort Worth has shifted its retail attention to urban and semi-urban shopping districts such as University Park Village (and West Bend across the street is essentially an expansion of that) and the West 7th Street Urban Village, and somewhat back to Camp Bowie.  

 

Edwards Ranch will likely get more clothing retailers following Neiman Marcus.  It is sort of a semi-urban environment, not unlike the Domain in Austin.  

 

Frankly I don't like going into malls.  I realize that places such as Northpark Center in Dallas have tenants found nowhere else and its maintained very well, but it still feels like an air conditioned box that I want to get in and out of as quickly as possible (in the rare event that i am in there, now that Barneys is closed).

 

I still think Fort Worth has a big retail void and would expect to see West Bend and Edwards Ranch fill several of those missing retailer categories.

[jefffwd]

I think the Neiman's outlet is called Last Call. 

[bgh01]

That is interesting about the remodel. It could breathe new life into the place, or it could be the final nail in the coffin. Back in my youth (in the mid-1980s), my family would go to Abilene to shop. There were two malls at that time, and the Westgate Mall decided to remodel. In the process, most of the stores moved to the other mall, and even after the remodel was finished, they just never came back. The Westgate struggled for maybe another decade, before it was finally torn down and a strip mall was built in its place. It is certainly feasible that the same situation could happen here if a significant number of the stores decide to head over to Hulen or other areas. And looking at all of the empty strip malls around and behind Ridgmar and what a dead area it has become, I don't know that a remodel is really going to make much difference.

[Dismuke]

Perhaps Nordstrom or Belk will take over Neiman's space once they vacate?

 

Or perhaps Primark.  They are a rapidly growing Irish department store chain that is very big in the UK and in several European countries.   They are about to expand into the USA starting with a location in Boston's historic former Filene's Department Store building.  For now they are focusing on opening stores in the northeast.  Some of the new stores will be located in existing Sears stores with Sears significantly shrinking its space down to one floor with Primark taking over the rest.   Apparently Primark is taking advantage of Sear's decline as a means of establishing itself in existing malls - and, or course, Sears benefits because they probably make more money leasing the space to Primark than they would on its current operations.   But if they come to Texas and decide that Ridgmar is a fit for them, if Neiman's is empty they might not have a need to have a similar arrangement with Sears here.

 

Primark is known for offering popular merchandise at very low prices - so the expectation is that they are going to be putting a lot of pricing pressure on stores such as JCPenney (actually in its home country of Ireland Primark operates as "Penneys"), Kohls, Macy's, Target, etc.

 

Something like that actually might be a good fit for a post-Neiman's Ridgmar - and perhaps might even bring in enough traffic to keep the place viable.

[Urbndwlr]

Interestingly, there have been some new tenants springing up to the north of Ridgmar mall.

I cant remember any names right now but it appears that some (not all) of the formerly dead retail spaces have begun to get new construction and new occupants.

[John T Roberts]

Construction is scheduled to start on the H&M space in May.

[Dismuke]

Interesting article that suggests that malls might not be as endangered as current conventional wisdom suggests:

http://www.newgeogra...hey-re-thriving

[NSFW]

I was at North Park Center in Dallas on Memorial Day. It's hard to say that malls are dying based on the foot traffic at that mall. IT WAS PACKED!

[mmiller2002]

If you have several shops to look at, the climate control is nice.

[johnfwd]

If you have several shops to look at, the climate control is nice.

I would enjoy the climate control in New York's Empire Outlets mall.  Ridgmar Mall this is not!

 

 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102736815