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Top 10 Things You Want Downtown


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#101 Doohickie

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 11:43 AM

As a visitor I would want to experience the local food.


Sure, but you have to remember, not everyone is like you. 

 

Some people are traveling for business and aren't interested in local flavor.  Some people are on a budget and don't want to spend a lot on meals.  There are any number of reasons why a visitor to Fort Worth would opt for something like McDonald's.  And guess what?  McD's would probably survive just fine based on the downtown office population.


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#102 renamerusk

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 11:49 AM

None for which New Orleans is either proud of or famous for.  I will not travel to NO to eat at a Krytsal Burger or Subway which may or may not be available here.  Tommy's, Kincaid's or Carshon's, etc. are my go to for out of town guests and receive praise for meal.

 

I am not arguing against national food chains, but it is hard to imagine a town being complimented in a critically acclaimed way on its Jack-in-the-Boxes!

 

Carshon's would be an excellent example of the quality of local food available in Fort Worth by having a location in Downtown.



#103 Doohickie

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 11:59 AM

Sure, but you have to remember, not everyone is like you. 

 

Some people are traveling for business and aren't interested in local flavor.  Some people are on a budget and don't want to spend a lot on meals.  There are any number of reasons why a visitor to Fort Worth would opt for something like McDonald's.  And guess what?  McD's would probably survive just fine based on the downtown office population.


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#104 JBB

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 12:04 PM

I don't think anyone is suggesting that more chain options are needed downtown in order to create memorable dining experiences.  Just merely for the convenience.

 

And I wasn't suggesting that those chains in Nola are memorable or noteworthy.  You said that they are taboo and that's quite clearly not the case.



#105 renamerusk

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 12:19 PM

Sure, but you have to remember, not everyone is like you. 

 

Some people are traveling for business and aren't interested in local flavor.  Some people are on a budget and don't want to spend a lot on meals.  There are any number of reasons why a visitor to Fort Worth would opt for something like McDonald's.  And guess what?  McD's would probably survive just fine based on the downtown office population.

 

 I'm not everyone and do not pretend to be. "Viva la diferencia".

 

How you want to spend your time is your decision and everyone is entitle to their own interests or lack there of.    I don't believe it has to come down to such personalizing.

 

Mixing visitors and the downtown office population is off message and are not the same, wouldn't you agree?

 

Traveling on business usually entails an expense account. Staying or eating Downtown is not usually for the budget minded person(s) on travel or on business.  You want find much in quality on a small budget in Downtown.

 

McDonald's is just fine for fast food and people traveling through town to some other place;  I stop at Buckee's on the way to Austin or San Antonio to grab a hot dog or a beverage; there are dozens of McD on the interstate for the same purpose.

 

I simply believe that as a preference for food choices that can exemplify Fort Worth from other places,  I think a local food establishment does distinguish a city from the mundane, cookie cutter national chains.



#106 renamerusk

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 12:21 PM

I don't think anyone is suggesting that more chain options are needed downtown in order to create memorable dining experiences.  Just merely for the convenience.

 

And I wasn't suggesting that those chains in Nola are memorable or noteworthy.  You said that they are taboo and that's quite clearly not the case.

 

I believe the proper quotation is "practically taboo".

 

And as for the purpose of the thread "Things you want Downtown",  I assume that the idea is to have something that is distinctive or uniquely Fort Worth; may be something that could showcase the City overall.

 

If convenience is your criteria, then I suppose one could want anything since there are so many things which are not distinctive to Fort Worth and that would be familiar/convenient but would also require such an enormous amount of space that in practical terms is not feasibly available Downtown.



#107 JBB

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 12:36 PM

And that's not the case either.  There are chain restaurants all over New Orleans.  No less than any other major city.



#108 renamerusk

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 12:38 PM

And that's not the case either.  There are chain restaurants all over New Orleans.  No less than any other major city.

 

Were we speaking of all over Fort Worth or just Downtown?



#109 JBB

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 12:41 PM

I don't even know what we're talking about now.  Whatever.  More local restaurants downtown.  Yes, great idea.



#110 renamerusk

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 12:44 PM

Thank you. I read the thread as things that you want for Downtown.

 

Yes, local food establishments and local brewery (tasting rooms) Downtown; the sort of things that travelers might talk about and remember about Fort Worth when they return to their hometown.



#111 JBB

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 12:48 PM

Is this some kind of subtle way of scolding me for discussing New Orleans?  You're the one that brought up New Orleans.



#112 renamerusk

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 01:03 PM

Is this some kind of subtle way of scolding me for discussing New Orleans?  You're the one that brought up New Orleans.

 

Not at all.  It is that you seemingly came to an agreement for more local food establishments in Downtown, a position that seemed to have been lost in this conversation for the sake of familiarity and convenience for neither would showcase Fort Worth's food and beverage culture.

 

New Orleans is world renowned for its food; there food is an art, not something that is fast food convenience. Bringing up NO is a way to point out that a city can become famous or at least memorable by highlighting its local food and beverage establishments.  Downtown Fort Worth is the ideal place for this to occur.

 

A slew of chain restaurants with their trademark signage is and would be a blight on the esthetics of Downtown.  Key Hooters!



#113 JBB

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 01:09 PM

I agreed with you from the beginning. But I also agreed with Doohickie that chain establishments have their place and have value downtown. Its about balance.

#114 renamerusk

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 01:45 PM

I agreed with you from the beginning. But I also agreed with Doohickie that chain establishments have their place and have value downtown. Its about balance.

 

 And I agree with your statement with one caveat; the value that local food and national chains are not the same.



#115 JBB

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 02:06 PM

I never suggested that they have the same value.

#116 renamerusk

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 02:57 PM

I never suggested that they have the same value.

 

 Gee, I never attributed that conclusion to anyone other than myself.



#117 M2guy

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 05:14 PM

I think some kind of fast food downtown would be great. As was mentioned, subway and sonic, and Taco Bell are about it right now. Im really surprised that there is no Whataburger downtown.

#118 Jeriat

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 06:02 PM

 Im really surprised that there is no Whataburger downtown.

There was... 


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#119 renamerusk

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 06:12 PM

I think some kind of fast food downtown would be great. As was mentioned, subway and sonic, and Taco Bell are about it right now. Im really surprised that there is no Whataburger downtown.

 

 

 

 Im really surprised that there is no Whataburger downtown.

There was... 

 

 

 Where would they have their drive-thru lanes in Downtown?



#120 John T Roberts

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 06:31 PM

Drive-thrus are not allowed by the Downtown Design Guidelines.  However, I'm sure that if a restaurant wanted to put one in, they could apply for a waiver to the Guidelines.  I don't know if the waiver would be approved.  When Whataburger was downtown, they did not have a drive-thru.  They were actually in Sundance Square at the southwest corner of 3rd & Houston.  The fast food places that I have seen in other downtowns actually have enough foot traffic that they don't need drive-thru service.  Those restaurants appear to be doing OK without them. 



#121 renamerusk

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 06:40 PM

Drive-thrus are not allowed by the Downtown Design Guidelines......The fast food places that I have seen in other downtowns actually have enough foot traffic that they don't need drive-thru service.  Those restaurants appear to be doing OK without them. 

 

As for drive thrus, the sarcasm font should have been used.



#122 M2guy

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 07:10 PM

How long ago was that?

#123 John T Roberts

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 07:51 PM

M2guy, please clarify your question about how long ago something occurred.  To what are you referring?  I'm sure I can answer your question, I just don't know what I'm trying to answer.



#124 Doohickie

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 08:06 PM

When did the Whataburger leave?  After Whataburger, it was a generic burger place, then Saviano's Italian, then it was torn down for the Trust building at 400 Houston.


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#125 M2guy

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 08:15 PM

Sorry, yes I was referring to the whataburger. Its before my time of living downtown. I remember the Savianos now. Thanks for the pics!

#126 JBB

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 08:32 PM

Was it a Tommy's Hamburgers after Whataburger closed or did I dream that up?

 

Edit: Nevermind.  It was Zippy's.  Whataburger closed before 2006.  That was the oldest reference I could find on the forum and it was closed then.



#127 JBB

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 09:04 PM

Talking about Carshon's branching out reminds me a little of Kincaid's doing the same thing 12 years or so ago.  Like Carshon's, they had gone by for decades with a single location (or 2 different locations for Carshon's).  It took a new generation of the ownership family stepping up to modernize (credit cards) and expand.  I don't know anything about the ownership behind Carshon's to know how or if they would be positioned for a similar expansion.

 

I like the idea of a full-blown, kosher deli downtown, be it Carshon's or from someone else.  Jason's Deli isn't much more of an actual "deli" than Jimmy John's or Subway.



#128 John T Roberts

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 09:40 PM

I think Whataburger opened at 3rd & Houston in the mid-to-late 1980's.  I ate there when I worked downtown from 1988-1990.  I believe that Whataburger closed in the late 1990's.  In 2002, it was Tommy's Hamburgers because I have a digital photograph that I took of the intersection back then.  After Tommy's, it was Zippy's, then Saviano's.  As Doohickie mentioned, the pre-1885 building was demolished to build The Trust Building.  I think it was one of the oldest buildings fully intact in downtown.  The Sanborn Maps only go back to 1885 for Fort Worth, and I found this building, the Jarvis Building, and 1/2 of the City National Bank standing in the area.

 

3rd-Houston-2013.jpg

 

3rd-demo-02.jpg

 

trust.jpg



#129 Doohickie

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 06:51 AM

Was it a Tommy's Hamburgers after Whataburger closed or did I dream that up?

 

Edit: Nevermind.  It was Zippy's.  Whataburger closed before 2006.  That was the oldest reference I could find on the forum and it was closed then.

 

Yeah, that's it:  Zippy's.  I bought a homeless guy lunch there with my Jury Duty check once.


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#130 Jeriat

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 08:06 AM

I think Whataburger opened at 3rd & Houston in the mid-to-late 1980's.  I ate there when I worked downtown from 1988-1990.  I believe that Whataburger closed in the late 1990's.  In 2002, it was Tommy's Hamburgers because I have a digital photograph that I took of the intersection back then.  After Tommy's, it was Zippy's, then Saviano's.  As Doohickie mentioned, the pre-1885 building was demolished to build The Trust Building.  I think it was one of the oldest buildings fully intact in downtown.  The Sanborn Maps only go back to 1885 for Fort Worth, and I found this building, the Jarvis Building, and 1/2 of the City National Bank standing in the area.

 

3rd-Houston-2013.jpg

 

3rd-demo-02.jpg

 

trust.jpg

I saw an old photo somewhere online that showed when it was a Whataburger. Now I can't find it.


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#131 roverone

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 09:20 AM

I think the big challenge with downtown is the differing populations and how they flow in and out each day and on the weekends.  Different kinds of people want different things at different times of the day / week.

 

I am speaking about things I don't know too much about, but I expect that as a landlord my risks are far lower going into something with a chain that has a proven track record.  Add to that, it is probably difficult for any restaurant that does not sell alcohol to create the best total 7-day-a-week income.

 

So it is easy to see why we end up with what we do.

 

Luckily we do have some local or metroplex operators that have, I'm sure with plenty of start up hardships and patient landlords, finally established themselves here in downtown.



#132 JBB

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 09:50 AM

Great points.  One thing I've always thought was interesting was the failure of 3 major chain downtown locations in a very short time a few years ago: Bennigan's (entire company folded), Chili's and La Madeleine.



#133 renamerusk

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 10:00 AM

This may be poll-worthy but for now I'll just put up my own free form list. These are in no particular order, just the things I most want to see downtown. Some of them I would like to have ANYWHERE in FW, but especially downtown. Here's my list, I'd like to see yours.

10. late night restaurant
 

 

 I not recalling whether or not the Richleu Grill was a 24/7 diner, but Downtown could use a 24/7 dinner. 

 

My choice would be Ole South Pancake House.



#134 Doohickie

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 10:58 AM

 

This may be poll-worthy but for now I'll just put up my own free form list. These are in no particular order, just the things I most want to see downtown. Some of them I would like to have ANYWHERE in FW, but especially downtown. Here's my list, I'd like to see yours.

10. late night restaurant
 

 

 I not recalling whether or not the Richleu Grill was a 24/7 diner, but Downtown could use a 24/7 dinner. 

 

My choice would be Ole South Pancake House.

 

 

They're opening in Burleson, so yeah, why not downtown too?


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#135 renamerusk

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 11:31 AM

Even though a downtown location would command a lofty lease agreement, the OSPH may be able to find some space within one of the new or planned hotels for Downtown.

 

I love the late night atmospherics at the OSPH and so did Mr. Van Cliburn before his death.  Van Cliburn was a true and humble ambassador and a titan.



#136 roverone

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 12:22 PM

re 3 closings:

 

As you said, Bennigan's collapsed.  Chili's as a business seems to have also taken some kind of hit that might have weakened there desire to stay downtown.  I remember that the Chili's closing was pretty crazy: they served lunch and then about 3PM flatbeds and dumpsters and swarms of people showed up and all of the branding was removed and the place well-gutted in less than 24 hours.  That was end of January 2009.  It was easy to get the impression that there was some bad blood there.  As far as La Madeleine, they might have not been able to hold up with night business.

 

Those last two are replaced with equivalents:  Jake's and Yolk -- it will be interesting to see how well they sustain.  Just looking out my office window in the evenings, it seems Jake's does a decent bar business.  I don't know about Yolk.



#137 renamerusk

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 08:02 PM

 

This may be poll-worthy but for now I'll just put up my own free form list. These are in no particular order, just the things I most want to see downtown. Some of them I would like to have ANYWHERE in FW, but especially downtown. Here's my list, I'd like to see yours.

10. late night restaurant
 

 

 I not recalling whether or not the Richleu Grill was a 24/7 diner, but Downtown could use a 24/7 dinner. ...

My choice would be Ole South Pancake House.

 

 Northland Properties (Canada), the new owner of the W.T. Waggoner Build/block, holds the franchise rights for sixty Denny's in Canada. Could it be that Downtown gets an urban 24/7 Denny's late night dining :cheez:



#138 John T Roberts

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 08:30 PM

That would fit in with a hotel.  However, Denny's on Camp Bowie has closed.  A few weeks ago, a water main broke right by our building and left us without water for nearly a day.  All of the businesses on the south side of the street up to Denny's did not have water.  After it was fixed, I noticed that Denny's did not reopen.  Signs on the door say to go to the Hulen Street or Lake Worth locations.  Jake's was also a business that was located on our street and it closed.  It was replaced by Olivera's Pizza.



#139 Jeriat

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 08:32 AM

 Im really surprised that there is no Whataburger downtown.

 

I saw an old photo somewhere online that showed when it was a Whataburger. Now I can't find it.

I found it!

fort_worth_master_plan_02.jpg


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#140 John T Roberts

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 01:09 PM

The Whataburger was in the old pre-1885 building that was on the site before the Trust Building was constructed there.  That photograph was probably taken in either 1990, or 1991.  Sundance West opened in 1991 and they were nearly finished with the building.



#141 Jeriat

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 04:42 PM

I was thinking 1990, myself. 


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#142 M2guy

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 06:57 PM


 Im really surprised that there is no Whataburger downtown.

 

I saw an old photo somewhere online that showed when it was a Whataburger. Now I can't find it.

I found it!

fort_worth_master_plan_02.jpg


Awesome work!

#143 Jeriat

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 08:10 PM

I also just noticed the old Monnig Building had just been demolished. 


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#144 John T Roberts

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 09:15 PM

I had not noticed that until you pointed it out.  That puts the photograph at summer of 1991.



#145 rriojas71

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 03:48 PM

The sign on top of the Commerce Building jogged an old memory of mine.... speaking on that brought something else up. I wish the gas sign on top of the building would be re-lit. I always loved staring at it when I was a kid.

#146 John T Roberts

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 06:32 PM

There has been talk about restoring it.  The sign is on top of a City of Fort Worth Historic and Cultural Landmark, so the sign would be allowed to be restored.  One thing that I have noticed recently, is that it is now crooked.  I'm hoping it has been stabilized so it could be restored. 



#147 txbornviking

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 07:53 AM

 

 Im really surprised that there is no Whataburger downtown.

 

I saw an old photo somewhere online that showed when it was a Whataburger. Now I can't find it.

I found it!

fort_worth_master_plan_02.jpg

 

 

Whatashot!



#148 renamerusk

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 04:52 PM

There is nothing comparable in printed media to the NYT with perhaps the exception of the Washington Post.   I think that the local broadcast outlets have done a pretty thorough job. 

 

What I found interesting in a perverse way is how the reporting was datelined "Dallas" and it to a day or so for the national media to correctly go from Texas to Dallas to finally to "Forth Worth", that right "Forth".

 

There is a thread about a campaign by Fort Worth's media industry to dateline news story from Fort Worth; and thus providing the City with proper exposure, whether positive or negative.  NBC station in Far East Fort Worth (Center Port) was datelined Dallas.  Even Associated Press datelines American Airlines from Dallas.  We've are being ghosted.

 

Fort Worth needs a locally based media organization that broadcasts  news from a Downtown location.

 

 

The stories I've read in the New York Times and Washington Post all reference "Fort Worth" and not "Fort Worth, Texas" and even though the Ms. Jefferson and the family's attorney were in Dallas doing an interview with Don Lemon on CNN, there wasn't any confusion of who, what and where Fort Worth is.....

 

 

 

 

I don't think I did one, so here's my list:

  • A NEWS STUDIO AROUND SUNDANCE SQUARE: Maybe having it in the (hopefully soon to be built) highrise at the old Monnig site... I wish NBC 5 would have built their new site IN the core of Fort Worth, but it is what it is)

 

 Of course, Yes. 

 

A "Today Show" style studio with the Downtown crowd in the background.  WFAA8 tried it at Victory Park; not much foot traffic Is Channel 8  still broadcasting from there?....Such a disappointment that NBC5 chose to go to Far East Fort Worth; Sundance Square/Downtown would fair better than either Far East Fort Worth or Victory Park.

 

Yes, like I said, NYT and WAPO are pretty detailed about things like datelines.  If NYT reports about Arlington, Texas, its dateline will be "Arlington, Texas" and not Dallas or Fort Worth.  News print have a stricter standard regarding where, when, what, who, why than the broadcasting sector of media.  I think it is due to the fact that newspapers are designated legally and politically as public record.

 

I do think that it is a sad state that a place with 3/4 million inhabitants have to commute 30miles to be interviewed in broadcasting media.  NBC and WFAA do have a broadcasting studio in Fort Worth, right?  And what is that CBS11 building on East Freeway for?



#149 John T Roberts

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 05:13 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought CBS11 had their main broadcast studios on Bridge Street (I-30/East Freeway).  It was my belief that all of the newscasts originated from this location.

 

It is also my understanding that NBC/Universal/Telemundo consolidated all of their DFW operations at the new studios in Centerport.  If that is the case, then everyone has to travel to the part of Fort Worth, just south of DFW Airport to be interviewed by that station.

 

I'm do think that since WFAA has their main and satellite studios either in or close to Downtown Dallas, they are still keeping their very small Fort Worth newsroom/studio, which is located at Crockett Row. 

 

I'm not sure if FOX4 has a Fort Worth newsroom, now.



#150 renamerusk

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 05:34 PM

Still a sad state brought about by the consolidation nearly every aspect the basic building blocks needed to be central city as oppose to being regulated to satellite city status. A central city without a daily paper bearing its name.  Have you noticed that 99% of KERA's public lectures and guests events do not take place in Fort Worth? 

 

Unintended consequences of hitching our wagon to a higher powered neighbor.






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