73 replies to this topic

[Austin55]

They got all the permits cleared far as I know. That shouldn't be what is holding this up.

[elpingüino]

In the most recent Hunden Partners convention center study was this little list ...
 

 
 

The Hilton Garden Inn is listed as final planning, projected to open in 2020.

[arch-image]

The city needs to move through the approval process quicker. Working in depth with developers over the past few months has shown me that they don’t have the time or patience to wait on Fort Worth’s arduous process for getting projects going. I think this is what may have happened with this project.

 

Go get a permit in Austin, you will beg to come back and do permits in Ft Worth! I'm looking at 4-5 months to get a frigging pool permit and the permit for the hotel took a little over 18 months and that was through their expedited process!

 

Not sure what is holding it up but I do know Whitestone has a ton on their plate right now so may just be trying to wrap some tings up first or could be like some I Know who feel costs have spiraled out of control and have decided to wait a bit and see if things cool down a bit. I have been getting some calls lately from subs looking to fill pipelines so maybe the cool-down all the economist have been predicting is finally starting but I don't see prices coming down much. I hope it is still going forward, Whitestone does a good job and I think will do well on this site making sure the church is protected. 

[renamerusk]

 

The city needs to move through the approval process quicker. Working in depth with developers over the past few months has shown me that they don’t have the time or patience to wait on Fort Worth’s arduous process for getting projects going. I think this is what may have happened with this project.

 

Go get a permit in Austin, you will beg to come back and do permits in Ft Worth! I'm looking at 4-5 months to get a frigging pool permit and the permit for the hotel took a little over 18 months and that was through their expedited process!...

 

  A-I, no reason to doubt what you are saying Austin v Fort Worth, but Austin is still running circles around Fort Worth in ground breaking.  Certainly, Austin is a different environment, but otherwise Fort Worth's environment seems inexplicably corralled.

 

 BTW, Hilton Garden Inn, announced since "Curio/Monnigs Block" was announced still is further along than C/MB and is a piece of property free of any church/building issue.  Why is that? If the economy is cooling, we are looking at perhaps the premier block remaining a glorified parking lot for more years to come.

[JBB]

I know I've shared this story before, but I worked with a contractor on a construction and installation project about 15 years ago just shortly after he had done identical projects in Chicago and New York City, 2 cities with reputations for being bureaucratic nightmares.  He said he would take both of their construction permitting processes any day of the week over the ridiculous process in Fort Worth.

[Austin55]

Looks like this has shrunk a bit.  Applicant and Owner are the same.
On DDRB agenda,

 

 

607 Jones Street

Owner: Fort Worth Metro Partners- DK Patel

Applicant: McCalla Design Group Architecture – Robert Dunkin

Requests a Certificate of Appropriateness to construct a six (6) story hotel

building from the streetscape and material standards. 

[renamerusk]

There may need to be some further clarification as IMO, it does not stand to reason.

 

Is it that the project is abandoning 6 floors of rooms + lobby/garage below for something smaller? What about parking; is it being eliminated? This is a tight strip of real estate relatively speaking.

 

How can HGI expect to be competitive on equal footing with its main direct competitor Hampton Inn Suites?

 

Still, its a great sign for the tourism and meeting goal set by the City for this project to be preparing to get underway.
 

[Austin55]

It looks like the garage is gone. Unknown if just moved underground or removed altogether. 

[renamerusk]

It is nice.  A plausible parking solution is the 501 West 5th Street Parking Lot.  Perhaps HGI will contract or purchase the lot for guest use.  I could imagine adding a deck to the existing surface lot connected  to HGI by a sky bridge.

 

501 W 5th St Parking - Google Maps

[Doohickie]

So this is the view that matches with the rendering?

[renamerusk]

Yes; the view is of the location where HGI is to be built. 

 

It also appears that the immediate area is largely used by FWPD. 

[johnfwd]

Though the architectural design itself is impressive, it is low profile--comparable to an apartment complex.  The parking lot at 6th and Jones means a narrow tract of land better suited for vertical rather than horizonal construction for this type building.  My eyeball observation only, based on the Google image (Post #60).

 

How many hotel rooms?  Smith Travel Research data (Post #53) estimated 162.  That is only three short of the number (i.e. 165) for The Sinclair Marriott, which is a 16-story building.

 

I'm not good at comparing a tower to a 6-story building in terms of square footage   Looks to me, though, that 162 rooms cannot be crammed into a 6-story building on that size lot.  So there must have been a decision to reduce the number of rooms for the proposed Hilton Garden Inn from the original plans.  Anyone else have any thoughts about this?

[renamerusk]

........ The parking lot at 6th and Jones means a narrow tract of land better suited for vertical rather than horizonal construction for this type building......

I'm not good at comparing a tower to a 6-story building in terms of square footage   Looks to me, though, that 162 rooms cannot be crammed into a 6-story building on that size lot.  So there must have been a decision to reduce the number of rooms for the proposed Hilton Garden Inn from the original plans......

 

I agree with your curiosities and general assessments of the project.  In my post#57, I have a few questions which have yet to be able to figure out.

 

There has always been the issue of the adjacent church and the impact that the hotel would be having on it.  Parking was also an issue, but in the original plan, the solution of parking was neatly and efficiently taken care of and how those issues were being address by the original renderings showed of Hilton Gardens Inn (HGI).

 

The comparison to the AC Hotel Fort Worth (ACHFW) is an interesting one for sure.  As we see, ACHFW was a large investment that dealt with historical and significant buildings adjacent to it; and ACHFW had to design something taller and more sensitive to them. All in all, ACHFW has addressed every issue including maximizing to the fullest what it could afford.

 

I am speculating that HGI does not have the deep pockets to actually be in Downtown as did ACHFW; and yet, the owner of HGI is very keen for commercial reasons to be in the center of Downtown. This site is probably not the best physical location for the owner of HGI  if cost to address them is an issue; and this might be the reason of it being scaled down. Typically, the owner has multiple properties under his management and will use the same design team that he has been comfortable with at the other projects.  In the heart of Downtown, it will relatively easy to fill the hotel if tourism and convention projections are accurate, but it will also come with the missed opportunity to generate more bookings with more rooms.

 

I ascribe to the theory that the more vertical a project is that the cost to benefit ratio is improved.  Having somewhere in the range of 12 floors would have given HGI the rooms/bookings that would greatly better its return on investments. 

 

It could be that until all of four elevations are presented and the parking issue is answered,  there will continue to be more questions than there are answers.

[Dylan]

This thing is still on?

 

I'm disappointed to see this building lose a bit of height, but it (at least the front) looks better without the garage. The back ought to look better without the garage as well.

[Austin55]

It was brought up that without the garage they might be able to build it with wood which could make the project more financially feasible.

[Jeriat]

This thing is still on?I'm disappointed to see this building lose a bit of height...

 

Meh... it was already a lowrise, so height wasn't a big deal. 

Just as long as we get proper infill with that space, it should be good. 

[renamerusk]

It was brought up that without the garage they might be able to build it with wood which could make the project more financially feasible.

 Is that under serious consideration?

 

 If it is, then they have no business building in the heart of Downtown.

[Doohickie]

It was brought up that without the garage they might be able to build it with wood which could make the project more financially feasible.

 Is that under serious consideration?

 

 If it is, then they have no business building in the heart of Downtown.

 

The amount of time it takes to recoup investment should always be a serious consideration.  Otherwise they have no business being in business.

[arch-image]

I'm not good at comparing a tower to a 6-story building in terms of square footage   Looks to me, though, that 162 rooms cannot be crammed into a 6-story building on that size lot.  So there must have been a decision to reduce the number of rooms for the proposed Hilton Garden Inn from the original plans.  Anyone else have any thoughts about this?

 

I tend to think as it progresses you will see the room count come down as I agree John I don't see how you fit 162 in 6 stories on a 20k sf lot. I am looking at a 5 story right now with 129 rooms on it and the footprint of just the basic building with some allowance for the setbacks is about 27-29k sf 

 

On Austins comment on doing wood frame, I would fully expect this to be  5 floors of wood on a 1st floor concrete podium with possible concrete parking below, although they could do a long term lease on spaces at something like the Carter Burgess garage to meet the need for parking and do Valet. 

[John T Roberts]

It looks like the City of Fort Worth is slowly returning to business.  The Downtown Design Review Board will be holding a special meeting on April 17th at 2:00 PM.  This will be a virtual meeting.  The revised Hilton Garden Inn will be going before the Board for the hearing.  The project takes two of the agenda items.  I am posting a link to the agenda below:

 

http://fortworthtexa...1f66ef392d5.pdf

 

You can also see all of the Design Review cases here:

 

http://cfw.maps.arcg...6f6ab1542fca765

[renamerusk]

"Appropriateness to construct a six (6) story hotel building with waivers from the streetscape and material standards".

 

Reductions in streetscape and standard in material sounds like Patel is planning the bare minimum for lodging on the doorstep of Sundance Square.  Egads!

 

Back  when and what sounds like a year ago, yet only since March 2, 2020 I opined -

 

I am speculating that HGI does not have the deep pockets to actually be in Downtown as did ACHFW; and yet, the owner of HGI is very keen for commercial reasons to be in the center of Downtown. This site is probably not the best physical location for the owner of HGI  if cost to address them is an issue; and this might be the reason of it being scaled down.

 

I hope that the City does not feel so desperate at this time as to approve almost anything that barely meets its standards; and honestly, I would be glad if this project were to fall victim to the economic meltdown caused by the pandemic.

 

Portfolio of McCalla Design Group -  Architect | McCalla Design Group Architecture | United States

[rriojas71]

I hear what you are saying Rename with the change in the design guidelines.. not a fan that it sounds like they are trying to value engineer this.  I think as far as being on the doorstep of Sundance Square this location just feels tucked out of the way to make any truly negative impact.  It is close enough but far enough away in my opinion.   I would have  loved for it to be at least 10 stories and not have such a generic design but on the bright side it will be getting rid of another surface parking lot and activating an otherwise desolate location on the much neglected east side of downtown.

[renamerusk]

Value Engineering is the just phrase that I was looking for.  VE should really be discouraged in core Downtown.

[John T Roberts]

Most of the downtown projects built within the last few years have been value engineered.  I'm not a fan of the practice, but I usually have to deal with it in a good number of my projects.