1001 replies to this topic

[JBB]

I thought the same thing. If you use the logic that the city's population size warrants an arena twice the size as the one at WR, they already have one of that size at the Convention Center. I don't know why they have to use a goofy appeal like that when it really is all about getting a more modern facility with more amenities and luxury boxes.

[mosteijn]

"The Will Rogers Coliseum was built in 1936. It seats fewer than 5,800 people. We need a modern facility more than twice that size to serve a city of 600,000 people and a county soon pushing a million and a half. We don't need anything as big as American Airlines Center -- we're thinking 12,000 seats or so -- but we definitely deserve something as good as Dallas."

I think he's about 5 years late...Tarrant is way past a million and a half (1.62 million as of the 2006 census estimates). By 2011 we should be at 1.75 million.

Also, JBB, wasn't there an plan to demolish the Convention Center Arena once this new one was finished to make room for the final expansion of the CC? So it's not like we'd have this arena AND the CC Arena, maybe they would overlap for a little while, but eventually we'd be down to just the Cultural District Arena. I like that plan, once we have the upgraded hotels, we'll look more attractive to bigger conventions, and then we might need the extra space.

One thing I don't like about the CD Arena plan is all the surface parking so close the Botanic Gardens. I think that will really cheapen the appeal of the gardens, although I suppose it was no better having the service center there either. Personally, I would have liked to see the gardens expanded all the way to Montgomery, but then again, I also want a new arena.

[JBB]

I know that, but that fact doesn't help my argument, so I chose to ignore it.

Seriously, my point was that they don't need to try and justify building a new arena by pointing to the growing population. The Will Rogers arena is dark, cramped, has minimal amenities, and is inadequate for any high quality event. Please note: I don't think it should be torn down. I would hope that there's a plan to update it and use it for smaller events once the new arena opens.

[safly]

"The Will Rogers Coliseum was built in 1936. It seats fewer than 5,800 people. We need a modern facility more than twice that size to serve a city of 600,000 people and a county soon pushing a million and a half. We don't need anything as big as American Airlines Center -- we're thinking 12,000 seats or so -- but we definitely deserve something as good as Dallas."

What does the size of the city have to do with the size of the arena, Ed?

...plus we'll have 700,000+ in 2011!

Last time I checked Greensboro, NC wasn't that big and they have a 23,000 seat arena with no major pro or college teams!

Greensboro Coliseum

Also, OKC hasn't done all bad with the Ford Center. I think the New Orleans Hornets and the NBA are now seriously considering OKC for relocation or expansion.

Awwwh. Just let em get what they want. No sense in questioning it.

But I do like the sources you pulled there. And your argument is heavily supported.

Would be great to put a new 25K seat arena where the LT once stood.

Kidding.

BTW, why doesn't the Conv. CENTER Arena have a host restaurant inside it. Would be nice to have one anchor Main St. Lots of glass and two floors for entertainment, drinks and food. I'd bid on that.

Does the city own/ operate that arena? Or a small contracted group?

[tamtagon]

Is there any momentum behind a train connect between the Cultural District and downtown?

[Perkins]

I have been out of the office lately.... Spring is my season

I am trying to play catch up and I was curious to see, is this "new" arena still a go or dead??
and if a "go" what time table are we looking at?

*I have tried to read through and find the information, hope I did not miss it*

[njjeppson]

Posted on Sun, Jan. 13, 2008
New arena might be on horizon
By MIKE LEE
Star-Telegram Staff Writer
http://origin.dfw.co...ow/18223032.htm

FORT WORTH -- After nearly two-thirds of a century, the Fort Worth Rodeo might be getting a new home. Emphasis on the might.

Stock Show officials have said for years that they want a 10,000- to 14,000-seat arena to replace the Will Rogers Coliseum, a city-owned complex that holds 5,900.

"Stock Show officials are closer to discussing with the city a public/private partnership for a new arena," Stock Show Chairman Ed Bass said in an e-mail. "A certain amount of study and discussion will inevitably bubble up in the course of this year."

Or, as Stock Show President Bob Watt said, "It's moving slowly in the right direction."

There are other signs of progress, too. A nonprofit group established to help fund the new arena, Event Facilities Fort Worth, has raised $29 million. Bass has said that the show's organizers and other private groups might provide as much as half the funding for the arena, although he reiterated by e-mail that financial details haven't been discussed with the city.

The first Stock Show was held on the banks of Marine Creek in 1896, according to the show's Web site. The show moved to the Northside Coliseum in the Stockyards in 1908. The rodeo has been held at the Will Rogers Coliseum since 1946.

But the coliseum has been showing its age for at least the last decade. The concourses are narrow, the restrooms are small, and the concession areas are outdated. There is little seating for the disabled.

The arena's size has kept show organizers from offering new events and attractions. The Houston rodeo, for instance, holds a concert at the end of each night. The Fort Worth rodeo can't sell enough tickets to offset the cost of a big-name entertainer, officials have said.

The Houston rodeo is held at Reliant Stadium, which seats 70,000. San Antonio's rodeo is at the 17,000-seat AT&T Center. In Dallas, the Texas Stampede is at the 18,000-seat American Airlines Center.

Fort Worth's rodeo organizers and city officials have been laying the groundwork for the new arena for about five years. Event Facilities was formed in 2002 and bought $4.3 million worth of land along Montgomery Street south of the Will Rogers center.

At the same time, the city included $9 million in its 2004 bond election to move an old maintenance yard off Harley Avenue, just south of the Will Rogers complex, and realign the street. That opened up several acres of parking, and it could eventually be the site of the new arena, although the street realignment is not scheduled for another year or two.

Some of the other land that Event Facilities owns could be used for parking or other amenities, including a hotel.

Event Facilities has hired an architect to help plan space for stalls and exercise rings at the Will Rogers complex, although Bass said in an e-mail that the work isn't related to the future arena.

The new arena can't come soon enough for Kirk Slaughter, the city's public events director.

The city rents the Will Rogers complex for other equestrian events, such as the American Paint Horse Association and American Cutting Horse Association shows, which draw thousands of visitors every year.

But other cities, such as Las Vegas and Oklahoma City, have begun building better complexes for horse-related events, and Slaughter has said he is worried about losing events.

"A new arena is definitely needed," he said. "I even think it would make sense to have an exhibit hall. The way a lot of these equestrian events pay for themselves is to rent space to vendors."

MIKE LEE, 817-390-7539
mikelee@star-telegram.com

[SeaToby]

Posted on Sun, Jan. 13, 2008
New arena might be on horizon
By MIKE LEE
Star-Telegram Staff Writer
http://origin.dfw.co...ow/18223032.htm

FORT WORTH -- After nearly two-thirds of a century, the Fort Worth Rodeo might be getting a new home. Emphasis on the might.

Stock Show officials have said for years that they want a 10,000- to 14,000-seat arena to replace the Will Rogers Coliseum, a city-owned complex that holds 5,900.

"Stock Show officials are closer to discussing with the city a public/private partnership for a new arena," Stock Show Chairman Ed Bass said in an e-mail. "A certain amount of study and discussion will inevitably bubble up in the course of this year."

Or, as Stock Show President Bob Watt said, "It's moving slowly in the right direction."

There are other signs of progress, too. A nonprofit group established to help fund the new arena, Event Facilities Fort Worth, has raised $29 million. Bass has said that the show's organizers and other private groups might provide as much as half the funding for the arena, although he reiterated by e-mail that financial details haven't been discussed with the city.

The first Stock Show was held on the banks of Marine Creek in 1896, according to the show's Web site. The show moved to the Northside Coliseum in the Stockyards in 1908. The rodeo has been held at the Will Rogers Coliseum since 1946.

But the coliseum has been showing its age for at least the last decade. The concourses are narrow, the restrooms are small, and the concession areas are outdated. There is little seating for the disabled.

The arena's size has kept show organizers from offering new events and attractions. The Houston rodeo, for instance, holds a concert at the end of each night. The Fort Worth rodeo can't sell enough tickets to offset the cost of a big-name entertainer, officials have said.

The Houston rodeo is held at Reliant Stadium, which seats 70,000. San Antonio's rodeo is at the 17,000-seat AT&T Center. In Dallas, the Texas Stampede is at the 18,000-seat American Airlines Center.

Fort Worth's rodeo organizers and city officials have been laying the groundwork for the new arena for about five years. Event Facilities was formed in 2002 and bought $4.3 million worth of land along Montgomery Street south of the Will Rogers center.

At the same time, the city included $9 million in its 2004 bond election to move an old maintenance yard off Harley Avenue, just south of the Will Rogers complex, and realign the street. That opened up several acres of parking, and it could eventually be the site of the new arena, although the street realignment is not scheduled for another year or two.

Some of the other land that Event Facilities owns could be used for parking or other amenities, including a hotel.

Event Facilities has hired an architect to help plan space for stalls and exercise rings at the Will Rogers complex, although Bass said in an e-mail that the work isn't related to the future arena.

The new arena can't come soon enough for Kirk Slaughter, the city's public events director.

The city rents the Will Rogers complex for other equestrian events, such as the American Paint Horse Association and American Cutting Horse Association shows, which draw thousands of visitors every year.

But other cities, such as Las Vegas and Oklahoma City, have begun building better complexes for horse-related events, and Slaughter has said he is worried about losing events.

"A new arena is definitely needed," he said. "I even think it would make sense to have an exhibit hall. The way a lot of these equestrian events pay for themselves is to rent space to vendors."

MIKE LEE, 817-390-7539
mikelee@star-telegram.com

Yes, if Fort Worth wants to maintain its status as a livestock show and rodeo, a new arena is a must. And since neither Will Rogers assets are landmarks, both could be torn down, if necessary. The old arena, no matter how great it once was, is too out of date today, and becoming too small as well. With the newer arena and auditorium slated for destruction or have already been destroyed, it really don't make much sense to keep older facilities. Especially when the competition are builder bigger and better.

Dallas stole the state fair. Let's not have Dallas steal the Livestock Show. Its a matter of pride.

[cberen1]

Yes, if Fort Worth wants to maintain its status as a livestock show and rodeo, a new arena is a must. And since neither Will Rogers assets are landmarks, both could be torn down, if necessary. The old arena, no matter how great it once was, is too out of date today, and becoming too small as well. With the newer arena and auditorium slated for destruction or have already been destroyed, it really don't make much sense to keep older facilities. Especially when the competition are builder bigger and better.

Dallas stole the state fair. Let's not have Dallas steal the Livestock Show. Its a matter of pride.

First post and already stoking the fire...

[Fort Worthology]

Yes, if Fort Worth wants to maintain its status as a livestock show and rodeo, a new arena is a must. And since neither Will Rogers assets are landmarks, both could be torn down, if necessary. The old arena, no matter how great it once was, is too out of date today, and becoming too small as well.

There is zero reason to tear down either structure. The new arena is planned to be built on Harley anyway, which is well clear of the original arena. There's no reason that both can't be used. The original Will Rogers arena is a monumental engineering and architectural landmark and should not be harmed.

[Now in Denton]

Ok from 5,000 to 14,000 is bigger. But why in the world are we building a STILL smaller arena than most other cities? Build a 18,000 seat arena and be at least the same level as other cities. Fort Worth sometime I just don't get you?

[SeaToby]

I thought the same thing. If you use the logic that the city's population size warrants an arena twice the size as the one at WR, they already have one of that size at the Convention Center. I don't know why they have to use a goofy appeal like that when it really is all about getting a more modern facility with more amenities and luxury boxes.

We aren't building a basketball arena, we are building a livestock arena which should be capable of hosting concerts and circuses. We need a new one because the old one is not large enough anymore. We wish to draw more to the livestock show but don't have the capacity to hold half of those who do show. The capacity of the old arena is an embarrassment to the city. We could build up to 20,000 but why build more than we can use? If Sam Bass says we need around 12,000, that is what should be built.

Yes, the newer arena downtown is about the right size, but its going to be torn down for Phase II construction of the convention center soon. We have already torn down the newer auditorium. The newer arena does not bring in the concerts as much as it used to, nor does either of our two arenas have any suites that provide much revenue anymore. Being downtown doesn't really help the livestock show. We have recently upgraded the barns at the livestock show, some of the best barns around anywhere. A new arena needs to be built at the livestock show grounds.

The newer arena downtown couldn't even keep a minor league hockey team. Why? Not because it wasn't large enough, its because the downtown arena didn't have the all important suites providing the revenue to overcome the rent. Our hockey team is now playing in a rink suitable for semi-pro events, not a minor league. When you see that Oklahoma City, Tulsa, and Wichita have built new arenas, you realize Fort Worth has fallen behind significantly when it comes to quality of life issues. For example, Tulsa is opening their new arena next month, Sept. 08. Wichita one year later. Goggle the Bok Center and Intrust Bank Arena. They are doing so to keep up with Oklahoma City. By the way, their Ford Center attracted a NBA team from Seattle. Kansas City, North Little Rock, Memphis, and Shreveport have built new arenas lately, among others in Texas. The new Tulsa arena charges their minor league hockey team 10k-15k dollars in rent, a huge increase over 1k per game. But the suites in the new arena earn 22k per game. With this kind of thinking the Brahmas will return to a suitable arena for minor league hockey in Fort Worth.

[SeaToby]

I thought the same thing. If you use the logic that the city's population size warrants an arena twice the size as the one at WR, they already have one of that size at the Convention Center. I don't know why they have to use a goofy appeal like that when it really is all about getting a more modern facility with more amenities and luxury boxes.

We aren't building a basketball arena, we are building a livestock arena which should be capable of hosting concerts and circuses. We need a new one because the old one is not large enough anymore. We wish to draw more to the livestock show but don't have the capacity to hold half of those who do show. The capacity of the old arena is an embarrassment to the city. We could build up to 20,000 but why build more than we can use? If Sam Bass says we need around 12,000, that is what should be built.

Yes, the newer arena downtown is about the right size, but its going to be torn down for Phase II construction of the convention center soon. We have already torn down the newer auditorium. The newer arena does not bring in the concerts as much as it used to, nor does either of our two arenas have any suites that provide much revenue anymore. Being downtown doesn't really help the livestock show. We have recently upgraded the barns at the livestock show, some of the best barns around anywhere. A new arena needs to be built at the livestock show grounds.

The newer arena downtown couldn't even keep a minor league hockey team. Why? Not because it wasn't large enough, its because the downtown arena didn't have the all important suites providing the revenue to overcome the rent. Our hockey team is now playing in a rink suitable for semi-pro events, not a minor league. When you see that Oklahoma City, Tulsa, and Wichita have built new arenas, you realize Fort Worth has fallen behind significantly when it comes to quality of life issues. For example, Tulsa is opening their new arena next month, Sept. 08. Wichita one year later. Goggle the Bok Center and Intrust Bank Arena. They are doing so to keep up with Oklahoma City. By the way, their Ford Center attracted a NBA team from Seattle. Kansas City, North Little Rock, Memphis, and Shreveport have built new arenas lately, among others in Texas. The new Tulsa arena charges their minor league hockey team 10k-15k dollars in rent, a huge increase over 1k per game. But the suites in the new arena earn 22k per game. With this kind of thinking the Brahmas will return to a suitable arena for minor league hockey in Fort Worth.

I wanted to add, there is no reason why Fort Worth can't have a minor league AFL2 indoor arena football team either.

[SeaToby]

Yes, if Fort Worth wants to maintain its status as a livestock show and rodeo, a new arena is a must. And since neither Will Rogers assets are landmarks, both could be torn down, if necessary. The old arena, no matter how great it once was, is too out of date today, and becoming too small as well.

There is zero reason to tear down either structure. The new arena is planned to be built on Harley anyway, which is well clear of the original arena. There's no reason that both can't be used. The original Will Rogers arena is a monumental engineering and architectural landmark and should not be harmed.

Yes, I love the old Will Rogers complex as anyone else. Unfortunately, we need the parking space for the livestock show. We want to attract more people, but don't have the capacity to handle what we do bring as is. The rational for a new arena. Consuming more parking spaces is not the answer.

[SeaToby]

Ok from 5,000 to 14,000 is bigger. But why in the world are we building a STILL smaller arena than most other cities? Build a 18,000 seat arena and be at least the same level as other cities. Fort Worth sometime I just don't get you?

Money. Allen is building a new 6k-9k arena for $52 million. Tulsa is building a new 17k-19k arena for $210 million. Wichita is building a new 15k-17k arena for $180 million. One can assume offhand a 12k-14k arena will run $100+ million. The key is what is needed for the livestock show. Bigger is not necessarily better.

[SeaToby]

Ok from 5,000 to 14,000 is bigger. But why in the world are we building a STILL smaller arena than most other cities? Build a 18,000 seat arena and be at least the same level as other cities. Fort Worth sometime I just don't get you?

Money. Allen is building a new 6k-9k arena for $52 million. Tulsa is building a new 17k-19k arena for $210 million. Wichita is building a new 15k-17k arena for $180 million. One can assume offhand a 12k-14k arena will run $100+ million. The key is what is needed for the livestock show. Bigger is not necessarily better.

I wanted to add Dallas built a 18k-21k arena for $420 million with all the bells and whistles.

[Fort Worthology]

Yes, I love the old Will Rogers complex as anyone else. Unfortunately, we need the parking space for the livestock show. We want to attract more people, but don't have the capacity to handle what we do bring as is. The rational for a new arena. Consuming more parking spaces is not the answer.

Consuming more parking spaces is *always* an option, as far as I'm concerned. I know it's hard for this city to hear, but some things...lots of things...are more important than our precious surface parking lots. If we really need more parking, build a garage next to the new arena - tearing down what is a legitimate landmark to build parking would be ridiculously backwards.

It's not just a case of "loving" the WRMC arena. It IS a landmark, whether it's registered as one or not. It was the first domed arena ever. Every domed arena built in the world owes the WRMC arena for its engineering work. It does not get much more worthy of protection than that. It *cannot* be torn down.

More and more surface parking is never the answer. We need to have the vision to see beyond that. It would be a horrific mistake to tear down the WRMC arena for anything, and *especially so* for a freakin' parking lot. Knocking down our built environment for the sake of pleasing the Almighty Car is finally beginning to be seen as the wrongheaded attitude it is, and it will look increasingly astonishingly short-sighted in the future - let's stop making that mistake while we still have these structures standing.

[John T Roberts]

I'm sure I may derail this topic, but I pose some questions to SeaToby. Do you really want to see the Will Rogers Memorial Center (Pioneer Tower, Auditorium, & Coliseum portions only) demolished? Do you think that demolishing the historic buildings for surface parking is the best solution? Don't you think that a parking garage would be a better solution than demolition of the historic buildings? Finally, couldn't the Auditorium and Coliseum be used for entertainment and other Stock Show events?

[JBB]

The city has amassed plenty of land south of Harley and spent a great deal of money to relocate the maintenance yard on Harley. Are they really going to need more surface parking, even after the arena is built?

SeaToby, I think you've misunderstood my post (and that was 2 years ago, so I don't even know if I understand it). I'm not advocating saving the CC arena and moving the rodeo there. I was simply questioning the use of the city's population increase as justification for building the arena.

As for building an 18k+ seat arena, the only reason to do that would be to house a major professional sports team and buidling an arena that large without a tenant locked in to share the costs would be monumentally stupid. The Stock Show people probably have as good an idea as anyone about what their seating needs are for a new arena and the last thing they want to do is build too big and have empty seats during performances.

[Thurman52]

The city page inside the Star Telegram notes construction on Harley and Crestline is related to the contstruction of the new multi purppose center due to start on 1st of 2011.

[renamerusk]

TCU Basketball Bracing for Horned Frogs' Leap Into Big East

"Second-year TCU athletic director Chris Del Conte, who was an associate athletic director at basketball power Arizona, has said improving facilities such as dated Daniel-Meyer Coliseum will be a priority...."That's all part of the discussion," Christian said of the facilities improvement.- ncaabasketball.fanhouse.com

Have not heard much recently about the proposed special events arena for the Will Rogers Center, but thinking how a Fort Worth/TCU/Texas Wesleyan joint venture might come about to support a more cost effective and efficient arena?
With TCU in the Big East, expects elite recruits and larger crowds to come to TCU and Fort Worth.

Keep Fort Worth folksy!

[Owen]

TCU has an improving men's basketball program--and a very good women's basketball program. For Big East play, they're going to need an accessible arena that will seat way more than DMC can seat now. An expanded WRMC would certainly be one viable option.

[renamerusk]

Perhaps like some of you, I remain shell shocked by the derailing of the Fort Worth Street Car Project. And perhaps unlike some of you, I have not visited Downtown FW since and will continue to avoid it as much as I can base on readings powerful interest in DTFW were likely instrumental in the demise of the launch of a street car system.

Okay, so now to elaborate upon my conspiracy as to why I feel the debate over the street car project was and still is pertinent to the Convention Center Arena (CCA), TCU and the proposed new Will Rogers Arena (WRA).

After the DTFW successfully derailed the street car out of pure protectionism fearing a treat from the economic rise and revitalization of the Near South, Trinity Vision and the Stockyards, I now believe that the CCA is being allowed to languish in obsolescence to offset the funding of the proposed WRA. Why? An upgraded of CCA would have a wider arrange of use to a larger amount of people and devolution of control by any specific interest. Prep-school (FWISD) and collegiate (TWU/TCU) sporting events and other events would certainly bring more people to DTFW, specifically the southern sector; and would be a perceived as a possible treat to the DTFW's northern sector cartel. IMO, the unpublicized issue is that a greater share of private money if any at all would be needed to construct the boutique WRA should public money be used to upgrade the CCA. My guess is that would not go over well with the corporate welfare interests that jointly reign over DTFW and the Stock Show Group. Oh, what might have been had the initial streetcar line connected DTFW with Montgomery and Harley Streets.


Like him or not, Jerry Jones and the NFL footed a huge chunk of change to build the New Cowboys Stadium in Arlington. And TCU raised $105,000,000 to upgrade Amon Carter Stadium; and perhaps knowing the lay of the land, TCU has decided to upgrade Daniel Myer Coliseum by raising the money itself. It would have been great to have TCU and the Big East games in DTFW.

Those who successfully derailed the street car project now ought to pony up at minimum $25,000,000, the amount allotted to Fort Worth from Washington or more to construct the proposed WRA. Even better yet, just build it themselves as TCU is doing. --- DTFW still remains a no play zone for me; now discovering Fort Worth's up and coming urban villages.



"Keep Fort Worth folksy"

[Buck]

The convention center brings in more money as a convention hall than as an events center.

It should have a bigger ballroom, not an albatross arena.

The "plan" was spelled out in a study about 10 years ago -- a new events arena on Harley, converting the TCCC arena to events space and (someday) adding a small exhibits hall to fill a need in the Stockyards.

None of this is any kind of big scheme.

[renamerusk]

The convention center brings in more money as a convention hall than as an events center.
It should have a bigger ballroom, not an albatross arena.

The "plan" was spelled out in a study about 10 years ago -- a new events arena on Harley, converting the TCCC arena to events space and (someday) adding a small exhibits hall to fill a need in the Stockyards.

None of this is any kind of big scheme.

What event other than the annual rodeo will use the new events arena; and would these events generate economic benefit to all parts of the city as was the criteria being established to justify the investment by the city in a street car system?

[Urbndwlr]

The convention center brings in more money as a convention hall than as an events center.
It should have a bigger ballroom, not an albatross arena.

The "plan" was spelled out in a study about 10 years ago -- a new events arena on Harley, converting the TCCC arena to events space and (someday) adding a small exhibits hall to fill a need in the Stockyards.

None of this is any kind of big scheme.

What event other than the annual rodeo will use the new events arena; and would these events generate economic benefit to all parts of the city as was the criteria being established to justify the investment by the city in a street car system?

Excellent question.

[renamerusk]

The convention center brings in more money as a convention hall than as an events center.

It should have a bigger ballroom, not an albatross arena.

Can't a convention hall also be an events arena; and wasn't the 2008 Republican Convention held in the Xcel Arena in St. Paul, MN, home of the NHL Minnesota Wild?

What I am suggesting is that the Convention Center could be upgraded for greater utilization for prep and collegiate sporting events. I believe that TCU will inevitably improve its basketball program after joining the Big East Conference. The BE teams play before large crowds of +12K weekly. Could DtFW use thousands of fans coming downtown on Tuesday/Wednesday and Saturday/Sunday night?

I am on the outside looking in, but it does seem to me that spending public money on such a narrowly purpose to be used for annual rodeo and a couple of other horse shows does not give the taxpayers the best return for their money. It smacks of corporate welfare. But who knows, perhaps the corporate elite are in undisclosed negotiation with our local colleges and FWISD about sharing the new arena and my concerns can be set aside; I can only hope so.


Keep Fort Worth Folksy

[cberen1]

I guess the first thing I'd say is that the current arena is used for more than "a couple of horse shows". It stays pretty busy. And the rodeo is a pretty big deal. They cram something on the order of thirty events into three weeks. 154,000 people came to the stock show on Saaturday the 29th.

That said, I'd like the new arena to be used for TCU basketball games. I don't mind using public money as long as the arena gets its fair share of the gate for all those Big East basketball games. Montgomery and I-30 is still pretty close to TCU. Downtown is a little more separated. Although a bunch of sell-out basketball games downtown would be pretty cool. It would stretch the consumer corridor in downtown further South.

OK. As I think about it I can go either way.

Unfortunately I think TCU will build a new arena on campus. The new Will Rogers Arena will get built 2.5 miles away. And the flying saucer will stay just like it is. Forever.

[Thurman52]

City council agenda tonight including the vacation of the streets inside the Will Rogers Memorial Center Grounds? Is this cleaning up records or do they plan on closing the streets?

[mmiller2002]

What is with all of the dirt/rock piles along the east side of Montgomery on the city lots? Is it related to some new Will Rogers construction?

[Thurman52]

I think its the new aligment of Harley around the future Arena

[Doohickie]

There are signs up indicating a new equestrian center is being built. Looks like building slab has already been poured. It's pretty big.

[John T Roberts]

Yes, a new equestrian building is going up at the corner of University and Harley in what was a parking lot.

[Doohickie]

Is this an addition, or a replacement of part of the old complex?

[John T Roberts]

I think it is an addition.

[Doohickie]

That was my impression too, but light of this thread I thought I would ask.

[Thurman52]

Event Facilities Fort Worth, Inc is proposing a retaining wall along the backside of the botanical gardens as part of their developement efforts for surface parking. They are offering to construct at no cost to taxpayers the wall. Attached is the link to the design, it's much taller than I expected. Notice the grade changes... Link to ppt w/ drawings at bottom of the page.

http://www.fortworth...ildate=8/9/2011

[Jeriat]

Unfortunately I think TCU will build a new arena on campus. The new Will Rogers Arena will get built 2.5 miles away. And the flying saucer will stay just like it is. Forever.

Actually, the UFO is supposed to be demolished for more Convention Center space.

[ron4Life]

Actually, the UFO is supposed to be demolished for more Convention Center space.

Jeriat, I am lost with your reply. Could you explain?

[elpingüino]

I believe Jeriat is referring to the Convention Center's planned third phase.

[renamerusk]

I guess the first thing I'd say is that the current arena is used for more than "a couple of horse shows". It stays pretty busy. And the rodeo is a pretty big deal. They cram something on the order of thirty events into three weeks. 154,000 people came to the stock show on Saturday the 29th.

From the Official City of Fort Worth Event Calendar for Will Rogers Coliseum, I made an attempt to compiled the number of confirmed days that the coliseum will be in use from March 2012 thru February 9, 2013 (final day of the 2013 Stock Show). The number counted is 139 days, or about 38% of a 365 day year.

WRMC-Confirmed-Event-Calendar---Mar-22USE.pdf (application/pdf Object)

Will this new arena be dark for over 50-60% of the year? With both the city and TCU apparently intent on building their own facility, is the economics of the city's facility sound?

[cberen1]

I think they expect to add events overall. I'm not sure 50% usage on a facility like that is bad at all.

[ron4Life]

@elpingüino : I believe Jeriat is referring to the Convention Center's planned third phase.

@renamerusk : Will this new arena be dark for over 50-60% of the year? With both the city and TCU apparently intent on building their own facility, is the economics of the city's facility sound?

Wait, are you guys implying that The Convention Center is planning to add on it's facility?

[Jeriat]

I believe Jeriat is referring to the Convention Center's planned third phase.

Right.

And really it's not adding on. At least, not by that much, and especially if you consider that there are talks to straighten out Commerce.
It's just getting rid of the arena.

[renamerusk]

@renamerusk : Will this new arena be dark for over 50-60% of the year? With both the city and TCU apparently intent on building their own facility, is the economics of the city's facility sound?

Wait, are you guys implying that The Convention Center is planning to add on it's facility?

Nope.

I am referring to a new arena that is being proposed to replace Will Rogers Coliseum.

[ron4Life]

Nope.

I am referring to a new arena that is being proposed to replace Will Rogers Coliseum.

So you have no idea about the Convention Center portion of this conversation? Or is it true to what "Jeriat" is stating?

[JBB]

When the new arena at the Will Rogers complex is completed, the city has stated that they plan to demolish the Convention Center arena and the east side of the exhibit hall on Commerce St. Commerce will be straightened out to its original alignment, the arena will be replaced with more exhibit and meeting space and a huge ballroom, and a new load in facility with a tunnel connected to the exhibit hall will be built on lots on the east side of Commerce. At this time, there's no hard plan to pay for any of this, including the new arena at Will Rogers.

[Doohickie]

It's a decent venue for the events I've been to (high school graduations, circus, etc.), but from the outside, the "space ship" is totally incongruous with the rest of downtown, a combination of art deco and glass slabs. The curvy, mid-20th century vision of the future just doesn't match the future that is today.