239 replies to this topic

[John T Roberts]

The study on the convention center that will be released to the City Council on July 15th mentions expansion of the Omni Fort Worth Hotel and construction of another convention hotel.  I've decided to split these two ideas into separate topics.  Where and how do you think would be best to expand the Omni?  How big do you think the expansion should be?

 

Here is my idea.  The most obvious place to expand the hotel would be to purchase the May Owen Center and demolish it.  You could build a second tower to the hotel on that block and add more meeting rooms and possibly another ballroom.  I would not close 14th Street because I'm opposed to superblocks, even though the hotel is built on one.  I'm also opposed to skybridges and tunnels, but it would be hard to expand the hotel without one or the other.  However, one concept might make it a separate building with separate check in counter and lobby with access to the main hotel for all of the amenities.  I would keep the height down to be no higher than the highest floor of the current hotel portion of the building to preserve the views for the condominiums. 

[RenaissanceMan]

Agree with100% of the above.

[Austin55]

The may owen lot is surprisingly big (about 2.75 acres, the Omni's double lot is 3, a regular downtown lot is around 1.4) so a lot could be done. I guess the main thing the Omni needs is hotel space and not more condo's, or parking space. 

 

John-I totally agree with your comment about the height, that height is also about the same size as the T&P terminal, so more reason to preserve views and honor the architecture. The existing Omni has a few retail slots, and more could be added to contribute to the Lancaster Ave. corridor, as well as continuing retail down Commerce with the watergardens right across the street. I understand the Omni has underground parking, so perhaps a tunnel could be dug under 14th and more parking could be built below if needed. 

 

Here's a quick model I put together, 

[John T Roberts]

Austin, your scheme looks good.  I never stated how many rooms the expansion should have.  I'm thinking that with the existing 604 that are in the hotel, they probably shouldn't build more than 400 new rooms with this addition.  I could be way off base, because I have not studied the issue.

[Volare]

I'm still waiting for the "signature lighting" that was promised for the Omni tower. Not asking for anything similiar to Dallas Omni, but something...

 

P.S. I'd be annoyed if I had a north view out the T&P and that big building as rendered in post 3 ruined my view!

[RenaissanceMan]

The may owen lot is surprisingly big (about 2.75 acres, the Omni's double lot is 3, a regular downtown lot is around 1.4) so a lot could be done. I guess the main thing the Omni needs is hotel space and not more condo's, or parking space. 
 
John-I totally agree with your comment about the height, that height is also about the same size as the T&P terminal, so more reason to preserve views and honor the architecture. The existing Omni has a few retail slots, and more could be added to contribute to the Lancaster Ave. corridor, as well as continuing retail down Commerce with the watergardens right across the street. I understand the Omni has underground parking, so perhaps a tunnel could be dug under 14th and more parking could be built below if needed. 
 
Here's a quick model I put together, 

Love it. Just don't do anything nutty and tacky with it like cover it in LED lights.

[RD Milhollin]

Hate to parrot this point, but I would caution against building anything in the potential streetcar/LR corridor along the north side of Lancaster Avenue. If there is any chance of future local rail transit in Fort Worth that strip would most likely be a major component. It could be kept as a street side park space for now, but it is sure to to be needed for transportation infrastructure in the future.

[Austin55]

RD-I don't disagree, but I worked under the assumption that Lancaster Place will get built (I think the new groundbreaking date is set for Nov.?, and a tenant is confirmed (Pinnacle Bank) so it seems likely to me.) If that corridor is need, no problem, just shrink the building up a bit. I also think if you need a corridor, there's room behind both the T&P and post office buildings. 

[Dylan]

Hate to parrot this point, but I would caution against building anything in the potential streetcar/LR corridor along the north side of Lancaster Avenue. If there is any chance of future local rail transit in Fort Worth that strip would most likely be a major component. It could be kept as a street side park space for now, but it is sure to to be needed for transportation infrastructure in the future.

 

Why? Potential streetcars would run in the street, and potential commuter rail lines would run on the existing TRE tracks.

 

Using that strip of land for transit would be a waste of land.

[JBB]

The idea is that it provides a ready made open strip of land that's parallel to a major street that would make a great dedicated right of way for rail. It would probably make the most sense for light rail, since it tends to run in a dedicated right of way. It's a nice thought, but it's pretty unlikely that it will ever happen since the city has made it clear they intend to sell that land for development.

[Dylan]

We don't need light rail, though. We've already got commuter rail lines for the suburbs, and urban streetcars can run with traffic on Lancaster.

[JBB]

I don't disagree with you, but there are people on this forum (that know a lot more about transit issues than me) that have advocated running street cars on a dedicated right of way or installing a light rail system that operates similar to a streetcar system, similar to Houston's light rail or the way DART operates in downtown Dallas.

[Jeriat]

The may owen lot is surprisingly big (about 2.75 acres, the Omni's double lot is 3, a regular downtown lot is around 1.4) so a lot could be done. I guess the main thing the Omni needs is hotel space and not more condo's, or parking space. 

 

John-I totally agree with your comment about the height, that height is also about the same size as the T&P terminal, so more reason to preserve views and honor the architecture. The existing Omni has a few retail slots, and more could be added to contribute to the Lancaster Ave. corridor, as well as continuing retail down Commerce with the watergardens right across the street. I understand the Omni has underground parking, so perhaps a tunnel could be dug under 14th and more parking could be built below if needed. 

 

Here's a quick model I put together, 

 

Someone has to do SOMETHING with that space, eventually. If it's an Omni expansion, I'll take it.

[cjyoung]

Texas A&M Law School will need new facilities soon. Is the block where they're currently located large enough? 

[Austin55]

^ Has there been any talk of that? The building they are in does not seem incredibly well suited to a school, rather old and dusty and does not have very good parking accommodations for staff and students. Granted, I've never been inside. WIth big A&M money behind it now, wonder if there is something in the pipeline for the school. And any lot is big enough, provided you can go up.

[RenaissanceMan]

One seemingly little known fact is that at least one or two of the large empty parking lots directly to their east were owned by TWU and presumably included in the buyout. So that's a possibility.

[John T Roberts]

Another little known fact:  The A&M Law School building was originally built by Southwestern Bell to move offices into, if needed.  The foundations and structure were designed to handle a total of 16 stories.  If the law school wanted to expand, they could always go upward.

[youngalum]

TWU refurbished the school prior to its move from Irving.  It was very nice and looked like every other law school inside with large auditorium classrooms and small classrooms.  It also has 2 large mock courtrooms and a 2 level library.  I should know as I was the SBA president who help dedicate the building

[cjyoung]

The building is still quite ugly and not fitting for the law school of a top 50 university.

[johnfwd]

Further FYI, around the turn of this century TWU School of Law shared the building with the IRS which occupied the top floor.  Before the negotiations with TCU fell through, there was talk of building expansion, I believe.

[cberen1]

Post Office?

[Doohickie]

I'm opposed to superblocks, even though the hotel is built on one.  I'm also opposed to skybridges and tunnels, but it would be hard to expand the hotel without one or the other.  However, one concept might make it a separate building with separate check in counter and lobby with access to the main hotel for all of the amenities.

Sorry, I don't see that concept working without a skybridge. You may be opposed to it, but if it is going to be a single hotel where people need to move between the current structure and the new one, they aren't going to want to walk in 100 degree heat. It will cost the Omni convention business if it's two separate buildings.

[Fort Worthology]

One could have said the same thing about the Omni and the Convention Center, yet here we are with no skybridge.

[johnfwd]

Jeez...is this thread about the law school or the Omni hotel?

[Doohickie]

One could have said the same thing about the Omni and the Convention Center, yet here we are with no skybridge.

You could, but the CC and the Omni are two different entities, so the expectation is different.

[RenaissanceMan]

One could have said the same thing about the Omni and the Convention Center, yet here we are with no skybridge.

You could, but the CC and the Omni are two different entities, so the expectation is different.

People's expectations have a tendency of changing when presented with pleasing examples. An expansion of the Omni can be done without requiring the formation of a super block or a sky bridge. I honestly am not even sure if Fort Worth should admit visitors to the city who would be unwilling to cross a street for fear of heat or ignorance of that marvelous piece of technology - the umbrella - or those who would be so confused by the idea that one hotel could have a second building fifty feet away that they simply give up and abandon any attempt to find it. I'm just not sure if I want those kinds of people in a Fort Worth... not cowboy enough for me.

[Doohickie]

That's right, we only want rough-tough, pioneering folk to come to conventions in our city, amenities be damned.

[RenaissanceMan]

That's right, we only want rough-tough, pioneering folk to come to conventions in our city, amenities be damned.

...and nothing is more oppressive than the open air and a 45 second walk.

[Austin55]

If walking across a street makes you rough and tough, and if refusing to walk across the street is an issue, there's a much bigger problem here!

Seriously we don't need a skybridge. Build a nice sidewalk and plant some trees.

[Doohickie]

I'm not looking at it from my personal point of view, I'm thinking more from the standpoint of potential conventioneers. If their option is to go to a place where the hotel is in two pieces divided by a street, or where there is a continuous hotel... given that choice, what do you think most people would select?

I agree that anyone that can't handle crossing the street is a wimp, but wimps go to conventions too and when you're in the convention business you should be accommodating and not a hardass.

[RenaissanceMan]

when you're in the convention business you should be accommodating and not a hardass.

Well... agree to disagree. (just kidding)

[RD Milhollin]

There is a limit to the capacity of the hotel, dependent on the basic support infrastructure in place already. Expanding the catering, room service, reception, housekeeping, etc. department space either in size or by building duplicate facilities closer to the new room block is an option, but it would make for problems in coordination and efficiency; might be better to build another hotel from the ground up. 

 

Another consideration, if the existing support departments have built-in capacity for expansion, would be to build not southeast where the May Owen Center is but southwest, where a mish-mash of small parking lots sits now. This location appears to be closer to core services and could be pretty easily connected to the existing hotel through the existing basements and under Throckmorton Street.

[Austin55]

The convention study recommends the Omni add 400 rooms, up from the current 614.

 

http://fwbusinesspre...otel-rooms.aspx

[Dylan]

That study also suggests that we add a new 1,000 room hotel.

 

I would raher see a brand new 1,400 room hotel, preferably a tall skyscraper, than an expansion of the Omni.

[Now in Denton]

We should of built a bigger Omni Hotel in the first place. Like I keep saying .And May Owen could of been a Greenspace with maybe a water feature. I am so sick of Fort Worth and the clutter of small buildings. Omni just turn five this year . So seven years ago we did not know we needed the extra hotel space five short years later ? We knew over ten years ago the Arena was one way or another. Going to be rebuilt or removed.  

[Jeriat]

At some point the "think small" attitude has to go...

[RenaissanceMan]

All I'll say is that everything seems obvious in retrospect.

[JBB]

A 600 room, 13 story hotel is small?

[Jeriat]

A 600 room, 13 story hotel is small?

Eh... It's not huge in my book. But that's not really what I'm talking about.

I was really speaking in general. Seems as if there is mostly a short term/think small attitude towards this city's development, with a couple of exceptions.

I don't know. That's just how I feel about it.

[JBB]

So we're right back at my favorite forum intersection: It's "Fort Worth has an attitude and predisposition toward small development" and not centuries of proven economic theory like supply and demand. Whatever it takes to justify the obsession with phallic-like structures and be darned the financial and economic conditions, I guess.

[John T Roberts]

Yet, last night I saw the City Council jump at all of the chances for development of any type.  One Councilperson even said you can't wait on development to happen and you had to take it when it comes.  Please excuse me, I'm paraphrasing.

[Jeriat]

Whatever it takes to justify the obsession with phallic-like structures and be darned the financial and economic conditions, I guess.

Who said this was all just about skyscrapers...?

[JBB]

Okay, then I guess I misinterpreted what you were getting at.

[SurplusPopulation]

I personally don't mind the slow, methodical of Fort Worth's development. I wish the surrounding towns / suburbs grew slowly too. The faster and crazier things grow the quicker a city loses it's personality. My wife went to college in Austin and loved it. She's been back here for 5 years and says the personality of the city is already getting watered down by all the Californians and 'Yankees' that are moving in. But I guess their skyline does look nice.

I'll take our small town / big city feel.

[Austin55]

My wife went to college in Austin and loved it. She's been back here for 5 years and says the personality of the city is already getting watered down by all the Californians and 'Yankees' that are moving in. But I guess their skyline does look nice.

That's the meaning of my of my signature summed up.

[Jeriat]

Okay, then I guess I misinterpreted what you were getting at.

 

I know there's development and demand for certain things. I understand somethings (like Sundance Plaza) took years of careful planning and some projects (like The Cassidy) had to be downsized. 

But just the city as a whole, in a big picture stand point, just doesn't seem to think further than what's in the box. We've made great strides, but are still lacking. 

[Fort Worthology]

Yet, last night I saw the City Council jump at all of the chances for development of any type.  One Councilperson even said you can't wait on development to happen and you had to take it when it comes.  Please excuse me, I'm paraphrasing.

 

That is such a massively, massively unhealthy attitude.  It depresses me our council is so big on it.

[John T Roberts]

Kevin, I always hate to get political, but I think this may be a reason to start working to get as many of them out of office as possible.

[youngalum]

Good luck with that.  The problem is people vote and money talks.

[mmmdan]

Actually, in Texas people don't vote.  http://www.sos.state...cal/70-92.shtml

 

You hear people say they don't vote because their one vote doesn't matter, but when voter turnouts are as low as they are here, individual votes really do matter.

 

http://www.nytimes.c...eally.html?_r=0

 

20,000 people decided who is the mayor of Fort Worth.  http://fortworthtexa...t.aspx?id=86206