171 replies to this topic

[Austin55]

TM is holding a meeting on DASH next tuesday. 

 

 

https://ridetrinitym...018/11/DASH.pdf

[Dylan]

I'm considering whether I should waste my time and share my thoughts upon deaf ears at this meeting.

 

Perhaps I'll send an email that will be ignored instead.

[Austin55]

Care to share your thoughts here?

[renamerusk]

The next big flop!

[Dylan]

The West 7th corridor already has high-frequency bus service. If we're going to spend money on another West 7th route, it ought to act like something different.

 

The Dash ought to act like a streetcar with dedicated stations (not stops). Every station should have a platform, ticket machine, and be clearly labeled on a map.

 

If The Dash ends up acting like a normal bus, it will be a waste of money that could go towards improving other bus routes instead.

 

For the money we're spending, we should spend a little bit more to make this service worth having.

[Jeriat]

Just another reminder that we could have had at least one streetcar line by now . . . 

[renamerusk]

TM determined internally that there is a need for this kind of service and gone ahead with its plan before public input could weigh in.  I agree with the comments that there already exists public transit route that connects Downtown to the Cultural District.

 

So what would be a smarter solution? How about the Downtown Hotels joining together to operate a shuttle system that connects Downtown to the Cultural District and to the FW Stockyards.  The businesses in the Cultural District and FWSY could also chip in to support the shuttle system. There is a role for TM; it is to aid/consult the hotels and CB/FWSY businesses in operating/scheduling the shuttle.

 

TM should be more focus on the needs of the residents of Fort Worth; Businesses can focus best on the needs of their guests.

[Austin55]

 

https://twitter.com/...561624886726658

[Austin55]

Dash launch has been delayed to September this year.

 

http://www.fortworth...17ea0cc9f5.html

[renamerusk]

Stop before it is too late!

 

At $838K/per bus price tag, Trinity Metro continues to plow ahead with more of its kooky ideas --- a Hop-hop bus!

 

Mr. Ballard, how many commuters are hoping on and hoping off Tarrant Express Rail at North Side and North DFW Stations?

 

https://www.dmagazin...needs-a-rehaul/

[CFerguson]

As an occasional No.7 bus rider (TCU - ITC), I've often wondered why Lancaster is its entryway to the city center.  Why not 7th Street?

 

The No, 7 bus actually bypasses the T&P (my preferred train station).

 

Just wondering.

[renamerusk]

I think that Lancaster Avenue is a better and faster entryway into the City Center than West 7th Street.  It is far less congested, it is a direct route between the Cultural District and further south to the FW Zoo and TCU.

 

Ideally, DASH could begin at  ITC,  express down to Lancaster@Currie, Lancaster @ University and terminate at the Fort Worth Zoo. DASH Downtown terminal be

 

Squeezing in a hop and hop service along W7th that duplicates a regularly scheduled route makes little sense and appears to be nothing more than a vanity project of Trinity Metro.

[CFerguson]

I agree Lancaster is quick to the ITC.  Why not route Dash there, loop it all around every museum, hall, and taco truck?  Then let the additional frequency of the No.7 along Seventh Street eliminate the need for Dash there.

 

I've never seen anyone get on or off at University/Lancaster.  University is so wide few pedestrians cross it unless via the herd instinct when there is an event and parking.  Just pick them up on Lancaster to the west of University.

[renamerusk]

I have been advocating for a Lancaster Route ever since DASH was proposed.  If the goal is to connect Downtown with the Cultural District and beyond (Zoo and Arena), then Lancaster provides all of the advantage.

[Austin55]

 

HEARING: NO

SUBJECT:  Authorize Execution of Interlocal Agreement with the Fort Worth Transportation Authority (Trinity Metro) for Funding a Portion of Operational Costs for The Dash Electric Bus Service in the Amount Up to $150,000.00 Per Year for Three Years and Adopt Appropriation Ordinance (COUNCIL DISTRICTS 7 and 9)

RECOMMENDATION:

It is recommended that the City Council:

 

Adopt the attached ordinance increasing estimated receipts and appropriations in the Culture and Tourism Operating Fund (20101) in the amount Up to $150,000.00, from fund balance, for the purpose of funding The Dash Electronic Bus Service; and

 

Authorize execution of an Interlocal Agreement with the Fort Worth Transportation Authority (Trinity Metro) for funding a portion of operational costs for The Dash electric bus service in the amount of $150,000.00 per year for three years.

 

DISCUSSION:

The Fort Worth Transportation Authority (Trinity Metro) has secured funding from the North Central Texas Council of Governments (NCTCOG) in the amount of $6,264,000.00 for five electric buses and charging stations. The buses are expected to arrive in April 2019. Funding for operations of the service will be shared between Trinity Metro (75%), City of Fort Worth, and private entities along the corridor. The estimated annual operating cost is $1.4 million.  The City of Fort Worth will contribute up to $150,000.00 contingent upon final matching fund raising to be raised from the private entities.  

 

The electric bus service (The Dash) is a bus circulator designed to link the Cultural District and downtown Fort Worth by way of West 7th Street. Service will be on 15-minute headways, seven days a week with Sunday through Thursday hours 9:30 a.m. to 10:30 p.m. and Friday and Saturday hours 9:30 a.m. to 12:30 a.m. Service is expected to begin on September 22, 2019. This Mayor and Council Communication will allow the City to enter into an Interlocal Agreement with Trinity Metro to fund its portion of the operational costs for three years.  Funds for future years will be included in the City Manager's proposed budgets in the Culture and Tourism Operating Fund. 

 

http://apps.fortwort...ldate=3/26/2019

[renamerusk]

Over and Under Operations Current Configuration: 3 years Under.

[Austin55]

The first bus is in town - Via Sal Espino

 

Still several months (Sept) before service starts though.

 

 

Another pic

 

[Austin55]

I've seen Dash I'm downtown today, I guess it's testing. The route opens in 1 month.

[Austin55]

Here's a digital brochure of Dash with a map and schedule.

 

https://ridetrinitym...dule-092219.pdf

[roverone]

I think that brochure could have been written a little more clearly.

 

The time table takes more thought that it needs to because they only included 3 start times instead of 4 which would cover each possible 15 minute start increment within a section.

 

The methods to buy tickets is not made clear -- is that cash only?  If you do an all day I assume a day pass is printed.

[txbornviking]

good luck to them...

[renamerusk]

Doomed. If Trinity Metro would simply take public comment instead of internal polling or executive decision making, TM could avoid making the self inflicted blunders that it has the knack of doing.

 

Just my thoughts, but I don't consider the area east of University to the River as the Cultural District.  I believe that DASH is favoring Sundance Square District and Crockett Entertainment District over other deserving districts in the City such as 6-Points, Stockyards and Near South.

[Dylan]

Here's a digital brochure of Dash with a map and schedule.

 

https://ridetrinitym...dule-092219.pdf

 

UGH. Trinity Metro is treating The Dash as a traditional bus route. For this type of specialty service, they ought to be listing every stop on both the map and the schedule.

 

This is basically a shortened Route 2 with fancy branding. It's no better than the existing bus service.

[Austin55]

I'm really curious how it'll do. I don't think there's enough tourists traversing between downtown and the Cultural District to fill it up, and I don't know how many residents will really ride it when Route 2 already exists. Regardless, I'm glad to see TM trying something new, I like the electric buses and hope more come along, and the branding looks great. 

[renamerusk]

Seriously, we need a Citizen's Advisory Committee consisting of citizens from every part of the City.

 

Dash should be an express shuttle via Lancaster Avenue between Fort Worth Central and Cultural District/Dickies Arena along one leg; and an express shuttle via Samuel Avenue-23rdSt- Packer/Niles City Loop between Fort Worth Central and Fort Worth Stockyards along the other leg. Avoid regular routes as much as possible. 

 

Visitors coming into the City using rail can travel in 5-8 minutes to their destination (DA/Museums or Stockyards) with a needless joy ride  to tour Sundance Square or the bar and grill scene of 7th/Crockett; and these same visitors, after attending an event at DA, etc. can board DASH for Fort Worth Central Station to board a train to return home or to the airport.

 

Tickets could be purchased at museums, Tarrant Express/Trinity Express, Stockyards Visitor Center, WRMC/Arena.

[rriojas71]

I wasn't a fan of your initial concept of using it for Lancaster only but after further thought I do like it for that purpose better now and especially with a seperate line going to the Stockyards, although I like Samuels I not totally sold on that.  We really need it now since Molly stopped their Stockyards Service.

[Austin55]

I attended today's launch event, was a good time. The usual ribbon cutting type stuff.

I did attempt to ride but messed up 3 times. The first time I missed the bus at Central because I didn't know which bus bay it would stop at, so I assumed it'd be near Molly. I was wrong, it stops way at the other end of the whole place at Bay L. Another bus came and I was in the right spot, but after it dropped off its passengers it headed for the garage. I think this may have been the bus carrying dignitaries back from Crockett Row. The 3rd time I was at a bus stop on my phone, and it drove right past me. It's so quiet that I never heard it and looked up to acknowledge I'd like to board, so that was really my fault.

I'll try again tomorrow, I'm really curious and excited to see how it rides and sounds from inside.

[renamerusk]

I wasn't a fan of your initial concept of using it for Lancaster only but after further thought I do like it for that purpose better now and especially with a seperate line going to the Stockyards, although I like Samuels I not totally sold on that.  We really need it now since Molly stopped their Stockyards Service.

 

  I' glad to be garnering some support for the Lancaster Avenue Route.  I have given a bit of thought about how an effective tourism focused DASH could provide a meaningful and seamless connection to the 3 major tourism centers of Fort Worth: CD/DA, Downtown and FWSY:

 

  1. Start the DASH from the Cultural District/Dickie Arena.

  2.Travel to Downtown/Fort Worth Central Station via Lancaster.

  3. Travel to Fort Worth Stockyards via Jones/Bluff/Samuels to Packers Blvd.

  4. Return to Downtown and Cultural District/Dickie Arena via the same routing.

 

  The DASH would be non-stop to each destination  Tickets would be purchased at a kiosk in CD/DA, FWCS and FWSY.

 

  As it stands now, DASH is being introduced in a poorly thought out concept.

[Austin55]

 

Here's a digital brochure of Dash with a map and schedule.

 

https://ridetrinitym...dule-092219.pdf

 

UGH. Trinity Metro is treating The Dash as a traditional bus route. For this type of specialty service, they ought to be listing every stop on both the map and the schedule.

 

I'd definitely like to +1 this. I I've heard several comments of "Oh I'd never use it, none of the stops are near me" from people who are right on the route but not near one of the timepoints. The Molly map shows all the stops. If we're orienting Dash towards tourists and the transit adverse residents, the map is not doing a good job. They don't even have to show all the stops, just ones near major attractions I'd say. Just put some dots on there!

 

Heck, I've ridden the thing and am pretty familiar with how the buses work here and I don't even know where exactly the stops on Gendy or for the arena are at. 

[renamerusk]

I rank the members on The Forum to be among the most savye of people, so the initial reactions simply confirm what I thought were the obvious flaws of the way DASH is being implemented.

 

DASH should be a compliment to visitors who arrive in Fort Worth via rail (commuter, Amtrak) and who are here to enjoy our museums, the new arena and Fort Worth Stockyards.  The most effective way to do this is to dash along Lancaster Avenue to the CD and to dash along Samuel Avenue to FWSY; and until or unless a change is made, the initial rollout in its current state is both confusing and a wasteful duplication of current TM bus services.

 

Will someone say "I told ya so?"

[Austin55]

Dash free rides extended through the end of the year

[rriojas71]

Dash free rides extended through the end of the year

Needs to be. I have seen it about 5 times driving around town and not a soul on board

[Austin55]

Yeh I've maybe seem one or two but usually no one.

[John T Roberts]

It's the same with me.  They have been empty.

[Thurman52]

Sorry normally pro transit but this was a total miss.

[renamerusk]

Sorry normally pro transit but this was a total miss.

 

  If ever were there better fortune tellers, these are they:  Re: Post #102 thru #110.

[John T Roberts]

I heard today that The Dash averages 400 riders a day. 

[renamerusk]

 

Dash free rides extended through the end of the year

Needs to be. I have seen it about 5 times driving around town and not a soul on board

 

 

 

Yeh I've maybe seem one or two but usually no one.

 

 

It's the same with me.  They have been empty.

 

 

I heard today that The Dash averages 400 riders a day. 

 

 I would like to know who is telling the truth?

 

 And oh by the way, free rides ought not count.

[John T Roberts]

My guess would be that the 400 per day is not an accurate number.  I heard someone say it on the radio, but I did not get the person's name or information.  I'm almost sure it was someone with Trinity Metro because they were praising the service.  Maybe I shouldn't have posted it.

[roverone]

Well, if I'm looking at this correctly, making a trip every 15 minutes from 9:30AM - 10:15PM is 52 trips a day, and if a ride can be as little as stop-to-stop, that is I think 4 possible ride slots, so if the traffic is scattered, it might not be many people on the bus at any one time (and there are more rides on friday and saturday).

[renamerusk]

It could likely be that some riders are using DASH instead of the regularly scheduled bus routed along the way.  Its free, why not? 

[Dylan]

400 passengers a day is not many passengers at all, especially for a service that runs every 15 minutes.

 

Assuming 100 runs a day (50 in each direction), that's an average of 4 passengers a run. There may be more than 4 passengers on some runs, and no passengers on others.

 

-------------

 

The problem is, Trinity Metro is marketing this service towards people who don't ride traditional buses, but they treat it like a traditional bus.

 

People who don't ride traditional buses don't understand timepoints or realize that most bus stops are unlisted. The Dash ought to be listing and mapping every stop.

 

Also, there are times you have to do math because only three of four runs an hour are listed for any given stop timepoint.

 

Even traditional routes with 15 minute headways have all four runs an hour listed before saying: "every 15 minutes until..."

[renamerusk]

We should expect Trinity Metro to be managed smart.  I know that I personally can be highly critical, but the impression that I have of the decision makers within Trinity Metro is that there is a level of incompetence even almost everything that Trinity Metro introduces to the public which undermines the way transit is seen by residents and potential users.

 

So, how about this for a reboot.

 

Relaunched DASH during Fort Worth Stock Show & Rodeo Weeks.  Coordinate DASH with TRE and Tarrant Express Rail schedules. Riders from the trains would take DASH directly to and from the Exhibition District and Cultural District or DASH would take riders directly to and from the FWSY.  DASH would also be a shuttle between the Exhibition District, Downtown and FWSY.

[Jeriat]

Might as well just break these out for special events only.... 

[renamerusk]

Might as well just break these out for special events only.... 

 

 I'm suggesting that a better plan would have been to introduce DASH to the public might have been during a time around the FWSSR; not simply for special events. 

 

 

I will continue to believe that DASH should focus on connecting the (1)FWSY-(2) DTFW/Fort Worth Central Station-(3) C&EX District - extending as far south as the (4) FWZoo during the time that the zoo is open.

 

I have made it clear from my previous posts that the initial premise of DASH was poorly thought out.  DASH going down 7th Street to serve the bars and clubs of Crockett Row (a marginal district) was a mistake.

 

DASH could be better justified if it  provided direct connections to the four districts that are indicated in the above paragraph.

 

Less confusion with a more defined mission.

[Electricron]

It’s not fair to criticize Trinity Metro’s management for appeasing the city by creating new services the city is willing to partially subsidize. The city council has early retired previous Trinity Metro’s management before , it is not an independent transit agency. The city is attempting to save face with this battery powered bus service for its’ failure to subsidize an electric powered streetcar line. 

 

Considering the absence of new riders in Dallas with its new electric powered streetcar line, I believe whether it is a streetcar or bus in Fort Worth makes no difference as far as new ridership is concerned, at least Fort Worth has lost far less money than Dallas.

Let’s keep public transit relative usefulness in Fort Worth as compared to New York City in mind. As long as it is easy to drive to and park in downtown Fort Worth, people are going to choose private vehicles over public ones. The reason why public transit is in huge demand in New York City is because it is not easy to drive to and park. Manhattan, Staten, and Long Island are islands surrounded by  water. All the roads, tunnels, and ferries interconnecting them have tolls. It is actually cheaper to ride the train vs driving your own vehicle to Manhattan  - without considering non direct costs like vehicle insurance, registrations, licenses, etc. 

[Austin55]

It really wasn't a major effort of tmet or the city but a variety of advocates that got this from dream to reality.

http://www.fortworth...fa4a87043e.html

Hopefully that same community spirit can support the system.

[renamerusk]

It’s not fair to criticize Trinity Metro’s management for appeasing the city by creating new services the city is willing to partially subsidize.....

 

 

  Appeasing the city is not the basis for my criticism.

 

  True, Fort Worth wants and is willing to subsidize the new technology, which too is not being criticized.  Trinity Metro Management (TMM) is and ought to be criticized for its apparent lack of skill to design an effective transit project.  What does Crockett Row have to do with the goal of DASH?  What did North Fort Worth Station or North DFW Station have to do with Tarrant Express Rail?

 

The answer it seems to me is that TMM places the economic wishes of private or potential development over the simple or the correct willingness of the City to have an efficient way to get from point to point.

[Jeriat]

Yesterday when I went to Oni Ramen for lunch, I played a game called: "People to Bus Ratio" 

I saw 3 buses... and ONE passenger. 

[renamerusk]

Yesterday when I went to Oni Ramen for lunch, I played a game called: "People to Bus Ratio" 

I saw 3 buses... and ONE passenger. 

 

 Sad.