80 replies to this topic

[RD Milhollin]

Fort Worth Alliance Airport (AFW) approves contract for runway extension:

 

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/article30320979.html 

 

This project has been in preparation phases for many years. The main runway will be extended from 9600 to 11000 feet (2880 to 3300 m) in order to be able to handle the largest commercial cargo planes. This has been a pretty big project and has involved buying up lots of adjacent land and diverting a major rail line and a state highway, FM 156. There was also a lot of dirt moved around to build the base for the future runways, and more of that needs to be done before paving starts. There are the usual bureaucratic hitches for multi-year projects inevitable under our federal funding system, but the extension is slated to be ready in about 3 years. This should probably be good for business at Alliance, which still has space in the former AA maintenance facility to lease as well as plenty of vacant land with runway access available for new facilities.

[Austin55]

I'm curious what sort of planes and operators will be using the extended runway. Most of what Alliance handles is regional/general aviation planes. Alliance already handles some pretty large cargo planes, FedEx A300's, MD-11's, etc. It seems that a larger runway would really only be benefical to flying in only the largest of large planes, 777's and 747's mostly. I guess there's enough of a market to land things like Korean or Eva Air cargo jets out there, perhaps?

[Doohickie]

I'm curious what sort of planes and operators will be using the extended runway. Most of what Alliance handles is regional/general aviation planes. Alliance already handles some pretty large cargo planes, FedEx A300's, MD-11's, etc. It seems that a larger runway would really only be benefical to flying in only the largest of large planes, 777's and 747's mostly. I guess there's enough of a market to land things like Korean or Eva Air cargo jets out there, perhaps?

 

AN-124

 

[Austin55]

It can already handle them and does from time to time.

 

[Doohickie]

Hmmm, maybe the AN-225?  It's the 124's freakin' BIG brother.

[RD Milhollin]

Runway extension project at Alliance Airport finally gets underway. Goal: 11,000 feet x 2 for $61 million

 

http://www.star-tele...le39072471.html

[Citygeek]

I just wonder sometimes......Does Fort Worth ever see the viablility in having their own version of Love Field?  That is before McKinney National starts flying commercial airlines out of Collin County in the coming 5 years?  Meacham would be great as it's close in and would serve all the great development (tourism and business)_ that is coming in the Trinity basin and Stockyards area.  Jet Blue single-handedly resurected Long Beach Int'l airport some years back by opening up service there which had been absent for some time. With SW's endless push for total monopoly control of Love Field other carriers might want to help FW (and themselves) by giving us a third choice.  You guys are always wailing about how FW gets screwed over by Dallas all the time, here's the chance to change that.  I don't want to hear about the lame ass Wright Amendment anymore either.  It should have never been in place--it hurt everybody and it's a joke that DFW 'needed protection.'  No what was actually the real effect was to lock in American at DFW and SW at Love so there is virtually no competition at either airport and we pay some of the highest air fares in the nation as a result.  Just remember, the McKinney folks are still planning on opening up that airport to the big boys and have only temporarily delayed that decision.  Perot owns much of the land around that airport as of course he totally controls Alliance.  We have to think longer term here. Fort Worth will ultimately be larger in population than Dallas since we can annex abd with the estimated 10+ million people in the DFW area we will need tis additional capacity.   We are a region and other similar-sized areas in the U.S. have 3-5 major airports--greater Los Angeles (6 if you add Lindberg in San Diego)  and South Florida (Palm Beach, Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Sarasota-Bradenton, Tampa-St. Petersburg and SW Florida in Fort Meyers.)  All I'm saying is the dynamics are there and if the 10 gates that were removed from Love (stupid and short-sighted) are not replaced than Love is already almost maxed out in the number of flights it can operate under current regulations and restricition s (as in late-night flights).  I know there are real obstacles to be overcome but the ultimate benefit to Fort Worth will be more than worth it.  If it takes half a decade to get this going than so be it.  Everytime I drive my Meacham I think "What a waste of one of the city's greatest assets."  Maybe this can change.  End of rant! lol

[Citygeek]

Sorry.  I should probably have put this on the Meacham thread. 

[Electricron]

Sorry.  I should probably have put this on the Meacham thread.

Yes, you should have.
Never-the-less, the largest obstacle for Meacham becoming a second Love Field is its longest runway being a relatively short 7501 feet, with the second runway being a really short 4006 feet long. FYI: Love Field's two main runways are 8800 feet and 7752 feet long.
Boeing does build 737s for short runways as short as 1500 meters (around 5,000 feet), but the 4,000 feet runway would be too short for them. And that is a reliability problem some airlines will find difficult.

[JBB]

Alliance building two new hangar for private planes:

http://www.star-tele...medium=facebook

I saw some great aerial shots of their runway extension construction a few weeks ago. It looks like it should be completed soon.

[Bonfire98A]

I would love to see the airport construct a large Doppler radar dome on top of their cone-shaped control tower, and then use LED lighting (a la Arlington's Skymark Tower) to shine appropriate colors on the dome (think mint chocolate chip, orange sherbet, Neapolitan, etc.).  Never mind whether or not it's practical or even necessary, it just sounds fun!

[tamtagon]

Great News. I'm already looking forward to the next runway extension making two cargo airport available to Asia.

 

Having two options for European trade is a big deal, and one that should continue extending the reach of The Metroplex.   

 

https://www.dallasne...beat-texas-heat

 

The industrial-focused airport recently completed a 1,400-foot extension of its main runway out to 11,000 feet, enough to allow FedEx jets and other cargo carriers to take off for mainland Europe on hot days when a shorter runway wouldn’t allow the aircraft to generate the needed lift...."They can get there with a full load of fuel and a full load of cargo,” said Tom Harris, president of Alliance Air/Aviation Services, which operates and manages the city-owned airport....“That's meaningful to FedEx and it's meaningful to us as we promote and market the airport,” Harris said of the extended runways. “Our airport has the same capabilities as any international gateway airport in the country with one exception, commercial passengers.”...Alliance’s initial runways measured 9,600 and 8,200 feet long. By comparison, Love Field’s longest runway is 8,800 feet, while at DFW International Airport four of the seven runways measure 13,400 feet, with the others ranging from 8,500 to 9,300....Further development could see one of Alliance's runway extended to 13,000 feet, potentially enabling fully-loaded freighters to fly nonstop to Asia. But Harris said that's not a pressing need for the airport's current operators and advances in engine technology could help close the gap without lengthening the runway.

 

[Austin55]

I had wondered why the extension. The heat explanation makes sense. 

[txbornviking]

an interesting little write-up about Alliance

 

https://archpaper.co...-logistics-hub/

[Austin55]

There is an oil pipe stonehenge?

[JBB]

I thought that was weird too.  I wonder if he's talking about the aerial structures on the roof of old AA maintenance hangar.  Those aren't oil pipelines, but they could be confused for a Stonehenge-like structure.  Strange how the article is implying that "Alliance, Texas" is a town.  It's a name for the development.

[johnfwd]

I thought that was weird too.  I wonder if he's talking about the aerial structures on the roof of old AA maintenance hangar.  Those aren't oil pipelines, but they could be confused for a Stonehenge-like structure.  Strange how the article is implying that "Alliance, Texas" is a town.  It's a name for the development.

Yeah, we've discussed in the past here about Perot's (I guess it's Perot's) effort to make Alliance a planned community apart from Fort Worth much like Los Colinas apart from Irving.  I don't think it will work in the case of Fort Worth, because north Fort Worth encompasses a lot of territory up there, not just Alliance.  And the airport is still named after Fort Worth.

[Austin55]

As an aside there was an AN-124 at AFW this week.

[Not Sure]

As an aside there was an AN-124 at AFW this week.

I've seen these several times before at Alliance, though it's been a few months since I worked there. Are these uncommon now?

[JBB]

They come through a few times a year. There have been 3 to do fuel stops at DFW in the last 3 days, including 2 on the ground at the same time today.

[Not Sure]

OK. They are hard to miss. Those things are massive.

Yesterday I saw three Blackhawk helicopters land at Meacham all at once. That was an unusual sight.

[JBB]

Amazon opening regional air hub at Alliance next year:

https://www.dallasne...owTghmS4yRoVkVk

No word on if they're moving operations from DFW or just adding the hub. They already run a number of daily flights through there. As best I can tell, this is only their second hub with the other being at Cincinnati.

[Austin55]

Fairly old article but the launch customer for Lockheed's civilian C-130 model (LM-100J) will operate two of them at Alliance,

 

https://www.flightgl...r-lm-13-452647/

[JBB]

They have a website now:

https://www.pallasaviation.com/

One of the certification aircraft spent some time at the local Lockheed plant earlier this year. It may have just been an overnight stay, but I remember seeing photos.

[Austin55]

There is an oil pipe stonehenge?

 

I found it. It's part of a paintball course.

 

https://www.google.c...9!4d-97.2485734

[Dylan]

Your link takes me to the Sahara Desert. More specifically, Algeria.

[JBB]

The Amazon hub is set to open next month and one of their 767s landed there today to begin ground crew training.

[elpingüino]

Gulfstream will construct a $35 million aircraft maintenance facility at Alliance, with 200-250 jobs.

https://communityimp...liance-airport/

[johnfwd]

Gulfstream will construct a $35 million aircraft maintenance facility at Alliance, with 200-250 jobs.

https://communityimp...liance-airport/

This is great news!  The move is a partial relocation to Alliance Airport from Love Field in Dallas.  So, I just wish the first sentence of the article would have read:  "The aviation industry continues to grow in the Fort Worth area..."

[Austin55]

Spirit Airlines is using Alliance as storage for grounded planes. 

[renamerusk]

Looks like the City stands to gain some funds that it can apply elsewhere in its aviation budget.

[Austin55]

No idea how long theyve had them but I saw one of the Pallas C-130Js flying over today. It was coming back from College Station and appeared to have done some touch-n-goes at Waco. They are bright white and hard to miss.

[Austin55]

Mountain Lion Aviation is launching a charter service at Alliance. “We can fly you to Big Bend for a hike and have you home before dinner”
 

https://www.dallasne...liance-airport/

[JBB]

The Alliance Air Show had previously announced that they were not bringing back static displays again this year and they went into the reason in a social media post today.  Citing the need to keep businesses at the airport in operation, they are moving the activities and viewing areas outside of the airport fence.  It will feature the similar drive up style as last year, but will have another paid viewing area other than the parking lot.

 

This does not surprise me.  The 2019 show wrapped up much earlier in the day compared to previous shows and the rumor was that it was to avoid interfering with Amazon's operations.  Multiple Amazon aircraft took off during breaks in last year's show.

[Austin55]

Interesting article on Amazon Air. Alliance is the 2nd busiest airport in the whole operation, only behind their "superhub" in Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky. 
https://www.cnbc.com...locations-.html

Edit - maybe this?
https://www.google.c...locations-.html

[johnfwd]

Interesting article on Amazon Air. Alliance is the 2nd busiest airport in the whole operation, only behind their "superhub" in Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky. 
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/04/map-of-amazon-air-locations-.html  

Clicked on article but got a "Not found."

[Stadtplan]

 

Interesting article on Amazon Air. Alliance is the 2nd busiest airport in the whole operation, only behind their "superhub" in Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky. 
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/04/map-of-amazon-air-locations-.html  

Clicked on article but got a "Not found."

 

Try this one:

https://cnb.cx/3yHJcSD

[Stadtplan]

https://www.tdlr.tex.../TABS2022003240

 

PROJECT

Project Name: ZMI Office TI

Project Number:

TABS2022003240

Facility Name:

Aviator Way

Location Address:

13901 Aviator Way #170

Fort Worth, TX 76177

Location County:

Tarrant

Start Date:

11/1/2021

Completion Date:

2/15/2022

Estimated Cost:

$600,000

Type of Work:

Additions to Existing Building

Type of Funds:

This project is privately funded, on private land for private use.

Scope of Work:

Open/privates offices, showroom, conference room, break area, and a work area

Square Footage:

19,906 ft 2

Are the private funds provided by the tenant?

No

Current Status:

Project Registered

PERSON FILING FORM

Contact Name:

Adam Nesbit

 

 

OWNER

Owner Name:

ABP No. 2, LLC

Owner Address:

9800 Hillwood Parkway, Ste 300

Fort Worth, Texas 76177

 

Contact Name:

Doug Johnson

TENANT

Not Assigned

 

DESIGN FIRM

Design Firm Name:

RGA Architects

Design Firm Address:

301 S Oak St #100

Roanoke, Texas 76262

[Stadtplan]

Record PB21-17411: 

Commercial New Building Permit

Record Status: Pending

 

Permit Address

2040 EAGLE PKWY

 

Record Details

 

Project Description:

Paramount Test Cell - Observation Cab (Phase 2)

Installation of an existing observation cab to be used in conjunction with test cell as part of Permit PB21-11599. Construction will be the support plinths for the cab, as well as the connector and the access stair to the cab as well as canopy structure. This was previously part of Permit PB21-11599 submission.

 

Attachments viewable to the public: CABIN LAY-OUT DISCRIPTION (002).pdf

 

Owner:

FORT WORTH, CITY OF

FORT WORTH, TX

 

Legal Description:

AMERICAN AIRLINES AFW MAINTENANCE BASE BLK 1 LOT 1 ACRES 202.0947

[JBB]

The Alliance air show was this weekend and I've heard that this may be the end of the road for the show, at least at Alliance.  The growing Amazon operation is making it increasingly difficult to keep running the show going there.  Hopefully they can figure out a way to move elsewhere since the show is still popular even with a format that doesn't include static displays.  

[Stadtplan]

Sounds like the new hybrid format has some people pretty upset among other things.

 

These were a few of the "most helpful" recent reviews on their FB page. 

 

This Air show is Pathetic.. No static displays or crews to talk too. No ramp access, over priced and lack of selection of food or vendors for kids toys. Show center is for only the rich paying $150 plus a ticket. For us regular people we are 1/2 mile from where planes are flying at show center. I've come to the show since 1992 WORST AIR SHOW EVER!!!

We spent $130 for two cars and could have saved the money and just parked in a lot.  HUGE letdown after years past.  The air show is becoming elitist with extremely high ticket prices being the only real air show experience.  Military planes, and especially blue angels, please take note.  We have all paid for our freedom with our taxes and common man sends more into battle than elitists.  It’s not right what the Alliance Air Show is doing.  Boycott Alliance until they give us back our air show.  Thank you!

Oh.  And how many toddlers were struck by cars this weekend?  We had to put our 2 and 3 year old grandsons in restraints.  They did not like your air show.  They love DFW Founders Park and they really love airplanes.  Why were they disinterested in your show?  Too far away and too dangerous for them to even be there at all with your stay by your car and watch policy.  Everyone was boozing it up and driving.  Where is the common sense in that stupid 2021 Alliance Air Show.  Booooo!

 

My husband and I were incredibly disappointed. We paid $71 to sit in a field. You might as well not pay and sit in the parking lots across the street. It isn’t the same experience as prior shows. The planes aren’t up close. There was one helicopter to look at. Normally there are multiple aircraft to look at. In the two and a half hours we were there, we saw more Amazon Prime planes taking off than actual “air show” planes. I am not sure why arrangements were not made ahead of time to prevent this. What a waste of time and money.

 

 

The lack of being able to have static displays, get up close makes the experience sucks.  Watching the show from off site

Is just a tease.   Totally sucks.

 

 

$60+ to sit in the grass, no static planes on display to check out. More Amazon prime planes then show planes taking off. Denied access to getting water in the vendor area because we were seated in a different area. We ended up leaving early because it was hardly a good show. We did not go last year and will not be attending another show until it is like it used to be. There was no bold explanation of this being a "Hybrid event"! So very misleading.

 

Pathetic...I've been going to the Alliance Air Show, since the early 90's. I remember seeing Mig-29 doing the Cobra maneuver, F-14 etc,... but now it's very expensive to attend and you don't get much for what you pay.  The variety is poor.  Where's the F-35 and F-22, B-1 B-2 bombers to name a few. NAS JRB used to host a much better airshow until they stopped

[Austin55]

Does anyone know why the JRB stopped hosting? 

[JBB]

JRB's shows were sporadic.  Not every year or even every two years, some years they had a headliner, some they didn't.  I think the last one was in 2016 and didn't feature either the Blue Angels or the Thunderbirds.  I went in 2014 and the line up was smaller than what they had at Alliance yesterday and there were no military demos outside of the Blues.  I'm not sure why they haven't had any more shows.

 

As bad as the reviews were for this weekend, people aren't speaking with their wallets or, at least, not yet.  The line up didn't look all that different from what I've seen for other shows this years.  The air shows are at the mercy of the military when it comes to the big demo teams.  They get whatever is sent their way without a lot of input.  Alliance had 3 this year - F-16, C-17, and A-10.  I think they only had one more last year with the F-22 and F-35 being in place of the the F-16.  Plus they had the local F-16 unit do a flyover at the beginning of the show this year. 

 

The lack of static displays is due to the air performance box moving east and pushing the spectators out of the airport perimeter.  The ramp is off limits and it has to move east to accommodate continuous operations on the west side of the runways.  Alliance is a busy industrial airport and not a sleepy general aviation airport that can shut everything down for an air show three days a year.  It sucks, but it's just the way it is.  I don't know where else they can move.  I've seen other suggestions from the area, but they all have similar challenges.  The base seems like the best option (and they handle the logistics way better than Alliance). 

[txbornviking]

 

Sounds like the new hybrid format has some people pretty upset among other things.

 

These were a few of the "most helpful" recent reviews on their FB page. 

 

This Air show is Pathetic.. No static displays or crews to talk too. No ramp access, over priced and lack of selection of food or vendors for kids toys. Show center is for only the rich paying $150 plus a ticket. For us regular people we are 1/2 mile from where planes are flying at show center. I've come to the show since 1992 WORST AIR SHOW EVER!!!

We spent $130 for two cars and could have saved the money and just parked in a lot.  HUGE letdown after years past.  The air show is becoming elitist with extremely high ticket prices being the only real air show experience.  Military planes, and especially blue angels, please take note.  We have all paid for our freedom with our taxes and common man sends more into battle than elitists.  It’s not right what the Alliance Air Show is doing.  Boycott Alliance until they give us back our air show.  Thank you!

Oh.  And how many toddlers were struck by cars this weekend?  We had to put our 2 and 3 year old grandsons in restraints.  They did not like your air show.  They love DFW Founders Park and they really love airplanes.  Why were they disinterested in your show?  Too far away and too dangerous for them to even be there at all with your stay by your car and watch policy.  Everyone was boozing it up and driving.  Where is the common sense in that stupid 2021 Alliance Air Show.  Booooo!

 

My husband and I were incredibly disappointed. We paid $71 to sit in a field. You might as well not pay and sit in the parking lots across the street. It isn’t the same experience as prior shows. The planes aren’t up close. There was one helicopter to look at. Normally there are multiple aircraft to look at. In the two and a half hours we were there, we saw more Amazon Prime planes taking off than actual “air show” planes. I am not sure why arrangements were not made ahead of time to prevent this. What a waste of time and money.

 

 

The lack of being able to have static displays, get up close makes the experience sucks.  Watching the show from off site

Is just a tease.   Totally sucks.

 

 

$60+ to sit in the grass, no static planes on display to check out. More Amazon prime planes then show planes taking off. Denied access to getting water in the vendor area because we were seated in a different area. We ended up leaving early because it was hardly a good show. We did not go last year and will not be attending another show until it is like it used to be. There was no bold explanation of this being a "Hybrid event"! So very misleading.

 

Pathetic...I've been going to the Alliance Air Show, since the early 90's. I remember seeing Mig-29 doing the Cobra maneuver, F-14 etc,... but now it's very expensive to attend and you don't get much for what you pay.  The variety is poor.  Where's the F-35 and F-22, B-1 B-2 bombers to name a few. NAS JRB used to host a much better airshow until they stopped

 

 

sounds like quite a few disgruntled folks, but maybe I missed something, it seemed pretty obvious in advance what folks were paying to go see and that static displays like "normal" weren't part of the plan...

[youngalum]

How many Amazon planes are operating per day at Alliance?

[JBB]

Average of 28 according to the CNBC article linked above.  They recently started flying in ATRs for shorter routes, so that number has likely increased.  I've heard that the number is supposed to reach 50 daily at some point.

[Stadtplan]

Also worth pointing out if you want to check live arrivals and departures at AFW, you can see here that their fleet is operated by a couple carriers including ASL, Southern, Air Transport International and Sun Country with a cargo configuration.  Also worth noting AFW gets a lot of traffic by FedEX too.

 

Fleet Info:

https://www.planespo...mazon-Prime-Air

 

KAFW active Arrival and Departures:

https://flightaware....ltime;sort=DESC

[Austin55]

Alliance may get a name change

 

 

At the February 15, 2022 City Council meeting, Councilman Firestone requested the City

consider renaming Fort Worth Alliance Airport (Airport) to Perot Field Fort Worth Alliance Airport

in recognition of Ross Perot, Sr.’s significant contribution to the economic vitality of the City and

the creation of the Airport.
 

The purpose of this report is to outline the steps to rename the Airport to Perot Field Fort Worth

Alliance Airport under the City’s Facility Naming Policy (“Policy”), provide a brief summary and

biography of Ross Perot, Sr. and the contributions he made to the City of Fort Worth during his

lifetime, and to inform City Council of the process and anticipated timeline to receive Federal

Aviation Administration (FAA) approval for renaming an airport. 

https://fortworthgov...FD-63C5C7C5CA87

[Stadtplan]

Meh, sounds like a corporate sponsorship of an MLB stadium or something.

[JBB]

6 words in a name is way too many.  Just call it Perot Field.