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#1 johnfwd

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 11:13 AM

The Star-Telegram article by Bill Hanna below is about the Fort Worth City Council considering changes in the noise ordinance to deal with the noise level created by restaurants, nightclubs, etc. that are located in proximity to residences, particularly on West 7th Street near the Cultural District and other type urban developments. I don't live in these downtown retail/residential projects, so it wouldn't have occurred to me that residents would face a noise nuisance problem. Ah, welcome to the 21st century building design mix and its ramifications!



http://www.star-tele...verhauling.html

#2 David Love

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 01:51 PM

Think it's just a matter of common sense and courtesy, both of which your average Fort Worth business owner has plenty of. Unfortunately when there are areas of friction between those that live downtown or along urban corridors like 7th and businesses, mediation is rarely between the business owner and those being inconvenienced, it's between residents and those working at or managing the business, owners are often in the dark; maybe a better choice of words would be in silent isolation.

Business owners realize those living in mixed use locations potentially spend 1000% or more than those that just visit, people spend money near to where they live, that's generally a big reason they live there, it's close to their favorite shopping. So WHY would any business owner in their right mind want to anger or inconvenience such a huge base of revenue? It's simple, they don't.

Until there are clear channels between business owners and urban residents, ordinances will have to do. It's unfortunate that some working at local businesses find it a source of amusement, at least the few I've overheard discussing the situation.

Better Business Bureau:  A place to find or post valid complaints for auto delerships and maintenance facilities. (New Features) If you have a valid gripe about auto dealerships, this is the place to voice it.


#3 Birdland in Handley

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 01:13 AM

Darn. I thought this topic was about the possibility of ticketing bass-er cars. The Nethrlands does something like ticketing noise. Wish we did.

#4 johnfwd

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 12:12 PM

Darn. I thought this topic was about the possibility of ticketing bass-er cars. The Nethrlands does something like ticketing noise. Wish we did.

Birdland, I totally agree with you. I call these 11:00 p.m. mobile crazies "operation rolling thunder". Fortunately, the noise is a temporary annoyance, unless of course the idiot decides to sit in his vehicle in the driveway and keep listening to that junk.

#5 David Love

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 10:04 AM


Darn. I thought this topic was about the possibility of ticketing bass-er cars. The Nethrlands does something like ticketing noise. Wish we did.

Birdland, I totally agree with you. I call these 11:00 p.m. mobile crazies "operation rolling thunder". Fortunately, the noise is a temporary annoyance, unless of course the idiot decides to sit in his vehicle in the driveway and keep listening to that junk.

I've lived downtown long enough that stuff just rocks me to sleep, 2nd only to sleeping close enough to jets to feel the engine runs, like a kid in a car seat. :z:

Better Business Bureau:  A place to find or post valid complaints for auto delerships and maintenance facilities. (New Features) If you have a valid gripe about auto dealerships, this is the place to voice it.


#6 johnfwd

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:03 AM

I have read that the City Council will consider a tougher noise ordinance at its regular meeting this evening. I’m particularly interested in greater controls on animal noises. I like dogs, but not my next-door neighbor’s pooch who barks at anything or anyone at any time he’s let out in their back yard. What's worse, the dog never stops barking! A property owner’s right to enjoy a consistently noisy pet (?) should not extend beyond the property line.

#7 Brian Luenser

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:42 PM

I have never agreed with anything more in my life.

Your dog can bark all he wants to as long as I am not forced to listen to it at my house. As the world has gone more and more dog crazy there will have to be much greater control on this worst of noise pollution. There is no acceptable reason for a a dog to be allowed to bark if not in the middle of your own 800 acre farm. Surely not for security, which is one of the weakest arguments of many. Dogs are stupid. Barking for 30 minutes at guys picking up trash is not a security function. One dog can ruin a square mile. Completely unacceptable.
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#8 John T Roberts

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:37 PM

Then it sounds like the solution might be to outlaw dogs in the city. I'm only kidding, but barkings dogs don't really bother me. I have lived in an inner city neighborhood all of my life close to an active railroad line, and I consider noise just a part of living in the city. I just think that an owner can do a lot to keep his dogs from barking, but sometimes they are going to bark a lot. Stray cats are a problem in the neighborhood, and many times they are in the alley. All of the dogs on the block are barking at them and unless you get rid of the cats, the dogs are going to bark.

#9 Brian Luenser

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:58 PM

Stray cats are not a good reason for dogs to bark. If if is not a cat it is a bug or a plane or a mailman.

I used to be tortured by a neighbors dog that barked at airplanes. As we lived in Arlington at the time (South of DFW Airport) there were a lot of planes overhead. There is not an acceptable excuse for a barking dark. Even if they don't bother some people.
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#10 elpingüino

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 06:58 AM

According to the Star-Telegram's article about the new ordinance, "For barking dogs and crowing roosters, 10 minutes of continuous noise constitutes a violation."

Fort Worth City Council sets decibel standards for noise violations

#11 johnfwd

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 07:11 AM

According to the Star-Telegram's article about the new ordinance, "For barking dogs and crowing roosters, 10 minutes of continuous noise constitutes a violation."

Fort Worth City Council sets decibel standards for noise violations

Good.

#12 bburton

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:46 AM


According to the Star-Telegram's article about the new ordinance, "For barking dogs and crowing roosters, 10 minutes of continuous noise constitutes a violation."

Fort Worth City Council sets decibel standards for noise violations

Good.


As it should be in a civilized society. Throw in car stereos "booming" in driveways, along with the barking dogs, crowing roosters and whatnot, and it's a perfectly reasonable rule for all to abide by.

Bruce Burton
 


#13 mmiller2002

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:12 AM

It all boils down to rudeness and selfishness.


Not specifically a fan, but I saw this today:

http://shine.yahoo.c...-011800123.html

#14 youngalum

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 03:48 PM

There is no acceptable reason for a a dog to be allowed to bark if not in the middle of your own 800 acre farm.

1. you are a documented cat person--me too, just saying that might make you a little biased
2. what about some stranger walking by taking pictures of everything to post of various sites, including local tv stations--maybe the dog thinks you are a criminal? You acknowledged that could happen by the police that were there when you took pictures of the police cars and the broken window in some random downtown building--how does the dog distinguish you from friend or foe?

#15 Brian Luenser

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 05:56 PM

My point exactly. The dog doesn't know anything as I have never had speeding ticket. To a dog, the meter reader and Jack the Ripper are no different.

I do love cats. I care for dogs, very much. (I would have one on my farm.) Not in the city. And I don't think cats should be outside except on one's farm. Cats do not live long outside, anyplace.

And I would never allow either a dog or a cat to breed. For sure. I would fix any of them on their first eligible day. Including the stupid, but cute, cat that has not been out of my condo for 6 years. (this cat doesn't even know ME from Jack the Ripper.) Found her as a 5 week old clinging to a curb of a busy street. (Had her fixed at like 12 weeks. She has never been on a date) Dogs and cats both would like to be fixed. They would much rather concentrate on playing and eating. Increasing the supply of cats or dogs is the worst kind of animal abuse.
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#16 mmiller2002

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:10 AM

My wife saw in facebook the following from Fort Live(?)

"New Noise Violation Ordinance claims it's first victim.... Iron Chef Tim Love's West 7th Fort Worth Love Shack is out of it's lease after May 31st. Chef is looking for a new location..."


@cheftimlove - Unfortunately our lease is expiring. Love Shack so7 moving may 31st. Come get your last dirty love in So7! #neednewlocation!

#17 David Love

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:53 PM

I find it hard to believe that a noise ordinance has anything to do with someone moving their restaurant.

Most landlords get someone in with great rates and let you get established then slowly start jacking rates to a point where you have no choice but to part ways. Works out okay for both parties, now the land lord will be able to tell them of the great run the last place had, and T.Love will be able to find a new location with better lease rates or better yet, good purchase price.

And I don't see how pets could factor into the noise ordinance, it might accidentally ensnare some unfortunate pet owner with an unusably obnoxious dog, which might encourage them to keep them inside after hours. I think the primary target of this ordinance was aimed at obnoxious people.

Better Business Bureau:  A place to find or post valid complaints for auto delerships and maintenance facilities. (New Features) If you have a valid gripe about auto dealerships, this is the place to voice it.


#18 mmiller2002

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:23 AM

The location seems like a dud also...bad parking

Is Barcadia still open?

#19 Now in Denton

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:55 AM

Well I hope this puts a end to the Toy Run. Somehow Santa and his eleves are able get toys to kids without all that noise, And stopping taffic all over Fort Worth Dallas !

#20 cberen1

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 01:00 PM

Well I hope this puts a end to the Toy Run. Somehow Santa and his eleves are able get toys to kids without all that noise, And stopping taffic all over Fort Worth Dallas !


Yeah, I always hated that one morning a year when Christmas cheer got in the way of my curmudgeaning. :angry:

harumph, harumph, harumph, grumble, grumble grumble...

#21 Brian Luenser

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 03:33 PM

Well I hope this puts a end to the Toy Run. Somehow Santa and his eleves are able get toys to kids without all that noise, And stoppingtrafficc all over Fort Worth Dallas !


I hate the toy run. I hate motorcycle gangs whether or not they are for a good cause or a bad cause. Indeed, all they do is wreck traffic patterns, inflict terrible noise upon the innocent public and pollute the air. (Most motorcycles pollute the air much more than most automobiles.)

If you want kids to have a Christmas present, do the right thing and Paypal your $20. to a good cause such as gifts for kids.
( www.speedwaycharities.org/donate/) Nothing says Merry Christmas less then thousands noisy motorcycles wrecking an interstate for a day. I don't care if they do have an exhaust smelling teddy bear wired to their sissy bar.
www.fortworthview.com

#22 David Love

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 06:34 PM


Well I hope this puts a end to the Toy Run. Somehow Santa and his eleves are able get toys to kids without all that noise, And stoppingtrafficc all over Fort Worth Dallas !


I hate the toy run. I hate motorcycle gangs whether or not they are for a good cause or a bad cause. Indeed, all they do is wreck traffic patterns, inflict terrible noise upon the innocent public and pollute the air. (Most motorcycles pollute the air much more than most automobiles.)

If you want kids to have a Christmas present, do the right thing and Paypal your $20. to a good cause such as gifts for kids.
( www.speedwaycharities.org/donate/) Nothing says Merry Christmas less then thousands of hungover slobs on noisy motorcycles wrecking an interstate for a day. I don't care if they do have an exhaust smelling teddy bear wired to their sissy bar.

Then lets do away with all the fun runs and bike races while we're at it, they're a bit inconvenient as well.

Just because it's a form of recreation you don't partake does not mean it's not a worthwhile endeavor. I hear jack hammering all the time during the day, construction has a pass so I don't see why you can't get a pass for worthwhile events.

Better Business Bureau:  A place to find or post valid complaints for auto delerships and maintenance facilities. (New Features) If you have a valid gripe about auto dealerships, this is the place to voice it.


#23 Brian Luenser

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 06:43 PM

That's right, no construction or jackhammering either then. Noise is noise. Please.
www.fortworthview.com

#24 johnfwd

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Posted 21 November 2022 - 06:54 AM

I read on the "Nextdoor.com" forum about a loud concert at Panther Island yesterday.  Apparently, it was so loud residential neighbors miles away could hear it.  Fortunately for me, I live in southwest Fort Worth.  Did anyone in our own forum complain?



#25 rriojas71

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Posted 21 November 2022 - 12:34 PM

I live on the Northside near Panther Island and have heard some concerts they have had in the past... Particularly Ubi-Dubi, but I did not hear anything this weekemd.



#26 Nitixope

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Posted 21 November 2022 - 12:38 PM

I guess they had complaints from Ubi-Dubias far away as Marine Creek according to this video:

 



#27 Dismuke

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Posted 22 November 2022 - 08:24 PM

Sadly, this is nothing new - though the distance involved here is much futher than event noise incidents I have personally experienced over the years.
 
I am not even sure of the various steps that could be taken to mitigate it if an event is held outdoors.  When the noise travels for an unusual distance, very often it is the result of wind direction.  Which way the wind will blow isn't something that is easily predicted as far in advance as such events are usually planned.
 
A couple of years ago I was in my house at around midnight on a Friday or a Saturday evening when an annoying "thud thud" of someone's so-called music became increasingly noticeable and loud. Assuming it was somebody within a few houses from mine I went outside to see where it was coming from so that I could call in a complaint to the police non-emergency line. I understand that, in a residential neighborhood one has to put up with a certain amount of noise that is necessarily associated with home repairs, lawn maintenance emergency vehicles, etc. But it is unacceptable that I should have to endure somebody else's music inside the confines of my own house. But, after walking up and down the block, I soon realized that this was an instance where the sound was being carried by wind from a distance.
 
A few moments later I noticed on the Nextdoor.com forum that johnfwd mentioned a number of postings from other people who were bothered by the sound.  One lady was especially upset because it woke up her baby that she finally managed to get to sleep. Eventually it was determined that the noise was coming from outdoor speakers at two clubs near West 7th and University.  I live about a mile and a half southwest of those clubs. Complaints were being posted by people in areas ranging from the Monticello, Arlington Heights, Alamo Heights and Como neighborhoods.  Como is about three miles from the clubs.
 
Since that time, I have only heard the noise from the clubs on two or three occasions. My guess is that the reason I don't hear it more often is due to wind direction.  But it makes me wonder about the apartments that are located in the immediate vicinity.  Presumably if I am able to hear it inside my very thick-walled house a mile and a half away when the wind blows just right, they can hear it too, much louder and on a regular basis.
 
One evening a good many years ago I could hear someone's music inside my house much louder than what was coming from the clubs.  At the time, there was a nearby house where the jerk who lived there would crank up the volume extremely loud prompting me to report him. Eventually he stopped, presumably as a result of the police getting weary of responding to repeated complaints. My first assumption was that he was back to his old ways. But when I went outside, I realized the noise was coming from a different direction. I ended up walking about a mile or so through my neighborhood towards the general direction of the sound and felt that I was getting no closer to it before.  Finally I returned home and continued my quest to find where it was coming from by car. 
 
Turned out that there was a live concert either in or very near the zoo in Forest Park.  Not only that, there were several police cars and a bunch of police officers, possibly off duty,  assisting with the concert related traffic and parking. It was at that point that I realized phoning in a complaint to the police would probably not have accomplished anything in terms of getting the noise to stop.  
 
According to Google Maps the zoo is a little under two miles from my house as the bird flies - though it seems further as one must drive further than that due to the way the road grid is set up.  Very close to where that concert was being held there are a number of large, high dollar homes - and, my guess is that, inside some of those houses, the sound was just as loud as the volume that many probably have their televisions set for. My guess is a good many of the people who own those homes tend to be somewhat older than the average population.  I cannot imagine that most of them were particularly appreciative of having a "free" concert involuntarily blasted into their homes.
 
I have zero sympathy for the clubs playing recorded music on outside speakers.  Their music needs to be loud enough for their patrons inside the club and perhaps those on any outdoor patio it might have to be able to hear and enjoy it. Anything louder than that is excessive.
 
I have a bit more sympathy for outdoor venues where, under normal circumstances, the sound travels in a direction where it does not impact any residential areas but suddenly becomes a disturbance to people due to the wind causing the sound to travel either further than usual or in a different direction than usual.  But, at the end of the day, people have a right to the quiet enjoyment of their homes.

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#28 Nitixope

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Posted 22 November 2022 - 09:00 PM

Why do birds sing in the morning?

From hyperlinked article: https://www.wired.co...s-sing-morning/
For many years, scientists theorized that the atmospheric conditions in the early morning typically cooler and drier than later in the day might allow birdsong to travel further through the air. However, recent research shows this isn't the case. Birdsong travels just as far, if not farther, at noon as at dawn.

Although dawn songs don't carry farther, they are clearer and more consistent, and this could be even more important. Individual males have their own signature songs, with slight variations that identify them to their neighbors. If you're a male trying to attract a mate or defend your territory, it's more important to let your fellow birds know that it's you singing than it is to be heard over a long distance. Singing in the morning leads to a more consistent signal and makes it more likely that other birds will be able to identify the singer correctly.

#29 Nitixope

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Posted 22 November 2022 - 09:14 PM

Ive noticed that in winter, highway noise pollution seems louder. I had a different diagram I found years ago but cant find it tonight, basically showing leaves on trees diffusing noise vs leaves off trees along noise pollution to more readily pass through.

noisered.gif

6.4a.jpg

#30 roverone

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Posted 22 November 2022 - 10:02 PM

I also think that in the fall / winter temperature inversions are more common (warmer air over cooler air) and that will bend sound back to the ground that might have radiated up and out under more normal conditions.  It would be possible for there to be a flat donut shape around the sound source that could be slightly quieter than further out under the right conditions.

 

Then there is the wind that can cause its own kind of refraction.

 

Also at low frequencies buildings / structures / walls / rooms can create resonant cavities and make things worse.

 

For traffic noise, much of the noise is from the tires, and I think when things are colder, that noise from the tire flex and tread increases.



#31 johnfwd

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Posted 23 November 2022 - 10:42 AM

I'm very sensitive to "base drum" noise, which sometimes originates from a house down the street of my neighborhood, or from a house on a street in the next block, or from a passing auto that has its speaker blaring "music" for all to "enjoy."  Sometimes I envy people who are deaf or hard of hearing, but I know I should be thankful for having good ears.  Now, come December 31, I'm thinking of spending the night at either my sound-proof office downtown or at some hotel away from those who celebrate with fireworks.






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