16 replies to this topic

[johnfwd]

The post I just displaced was about an "electric airplane" (apologies to Rename).  Here is possibly another emerging mass transit technology, which we've discussed before:  the Hyperloop.  The fact that North Texas transportation planners have bought on to this concept and want it developed here is, I believe, a remarkable occurrence.  Particularly because it's still basically a concept.  This FWBP article by Neetish Basnet gives an update.

 

 

http://www.fortworth...ed4237324b.html

 

Incidentally, I started this thread under the title "Hyperloop testing here" to replace the previous one I started that had the phrase "Try Chisholm Trail Parkway" in it.  I was scoffing the idea of the Hyperloop then; I'm more serious about it now.

[RD Milhollin]

I would be careful putting any public money behind this, given the haphazard nature of other related projects...

[renamerusk]

The Hyperloop model has me baffled.  Is HL claiming Fort Worth to Laredo in 47 minutes?

[AndyN]

https://dfw.cbslocal...ication-center/

[Electricron]

The Hyperloop model has me baffled.  Is HL claiming Fort Worth to Laredo in 47 minutes?

The driving distance between Fort Worth and Laredo is 421 miles, taking 7 hours and 5 minutes to drive per Travelmath. The car would be averaging 59 mph, far below the maximum allowed speed limits on Interstate 35.  

The Hyperloop would have to average 537 mph to travel that far in 47 minutes. Jets may or may not obtain that over the ground speed depending upon the direction of the winds.  

The Hyperloop test tracks being proposed are around 10 miles in length. How can they test maximum speeds of 537 mph in that short a distance? Not only do they have to accelerate the Hyperloop capsule from zero to 537 mph, they also have to deaccelerate it back down to zero. 

The only place on Earth I'm aware of where land vehicles accelerate and deaccelerate to those speeds is at the Bonneville salt flats in Utah. The salt flats are at their maximum 12 miles long by 5 miles in width, at 47 square miles. Even they have to use parachutes to brake and slow down their vehicles from those speeds over that short a distance. 

So can the Hyperloop test track be testing vehicle with humans aboard at these high speeds?

[renamerusk]

The only times that I believe getting somewhere requires break neck speed is in route to the ER.

 

Why, tell me, would I need to get between Dallas and Fort Worth in under 3 minutes just to be stuck in 90 minutes of traffic?

[johnfwd]

The illogic of air travel fast and end up in rush-hour traffic would also apply to "hyperloop fast" and end up in rush-hour traffic.  For that we have to blame the automobile.

 

Regarding the acceleration and deceleration factors that must be taken into consideration, the point is well taken.  I'm not a scientist or engineer, but I tend to give inventors some leeway in resolving such issues facing a new technological concept such as the Hyperloop.  We all know the old saying--"if God wanted man to fly He would have given him wings"--was used by doubters in the late 19th and early 20th centuries when inventors were working on heavier-than-air flying machines.  Now we take jet travel for granted.  I think Hyperloop may be a feasible alternative to high-speed rail, if and when it's developed.  We shall see.

 

RD, remember that public money was used to get the railroads going in the 19th Century and the fledgling aeronautical industry off the ground in the early 20th Century.

[Electricron]

RD, remember that public money was used to get the railroads going in the 19th Century and the fledgling aeronautical industry off the ground in the early 20th Century.

Not much money was granted to railroads. What was granted was free land around the railroads they built, usually in a checkerboard pattern in areas where few, if any, "white" men lived. The other half of that checkerboard pattern, and far more land was given away to homesteaders free as well. The US government had far more land to give away than money. 

 

The only requirement for eventual ownership of the land was improving it over 7 years or so and paying property taxes on it. The railroads were basically not treated any different than homesteaders. 

The Homestead Act granted land to those who improved the land in their own way, encouraging the growth of the country in a western direction, from sea to shining sea. That's how America's Manifest Destiny was implemented. 

[renamerusk]

 

RD, remember that public money was used to get the railroads going in the 19th Century and the fledgling aeronautical industry off the ground in the early 20th Century.

 

The only requirement for eventual ownership of the land was improving it over 7 years or so and paying property taxes on it. The railroads were basically not treated any different than homesteaders....The Homestead Act granted land to those who improved the land in their own way, encouraging the growth of the country in a western direction, from sea to shining sea. That's how America's Manifest Destiny was implemented.

 

Thanks for pointing the facts.  I learned that historical lesson before  graduating with a high school diploma.  I thought everyone knew that too, but apparently not.

[AndyN]

In Texas,

 

Before 1845, heads of families could get about 4600 acres if they arrived before Mar. 2nd 1836, 1280 acres between Mar. 2, 1836 and October 1, 1836. 640 Acres between 1837 and Jan. 1, 1840 and also 640 acres between Jan. 1 1840 and Jan. 1 1842, but 10 acres had to be in cultivation.

 

Under the preemption grants, from 1845 to 1854, individuals could claim 320 acres, then 160 acres from 1854 until 1856 when the program was cancelled. This was reinstituted in 1866 until 1898. To qualify for these "pre-emption" grants, the settlers had to live on the land for 3 years and make improvements.

 

Military service grants were awarded 320 acres per 3 months of services before Oct. 1, 1837 up to a maximum of 1280 acres. Heirs of fallen soldiers received a full 1280. Frontier guard soldiers received grants from 1838 to 1842.Confederate soldiers who were killed or disabled were given 1280 acres between 1881 and 1883.

 

Loan Scrip was issued to raise funds or pay off loans from $0.50 to $2.00 per acre from 1836 up to 1858.

 

Internal improvement scrip was used to aid development of critical infrastructure. Improvement scrip legislation was repealed in 1882. Scrip certificates of various amounts were awarded for construction of Preston Road from Dallas to the Red River. 320 acres were given for each steamship or steamboat over 50 tons (16 ships were built claiming this award). Constitution of 1876 awarded 10,240 acres of land for every mile of railroad track constructed with the stipulation that alternate sections were to be surveyed and set aside for funding public schools. Scrip was also issued for navigation channel improvements and irrigation canals.

 

Many land scrips were quickly sold for cash and the land never surveyed or occupied by the people who earned it. Land was also given to empresarios who would recruit settlers to immigrate to Texas.

 

The Texas Supreme Court declared in 1898 that there was no more vacant and unappropriated land in Texas. In 1900, all unappropriated land was set aside for the benefit of public schools.

 

The railroads were treated much more generously in terms of acreage, but their costs to claim the certificates was also much higher.

 

For the record, I do not support the idea of issuing land scrip to support private pneumatic tube companies like Hyperloop.

[johnfwd]

Here's an update on Hyperloop technology, an article on the CNBC.com website.  Most notable is that the U.S. Department of Transportation recently initiated the process of implementing regulation of this emerging technology.

 

https://www.cnbc.com...irus-world.html

[johnfwd]

The "Morning Joe" program on MSNBC.com has an updated feature video (about 5 minutes long) on the planned Virgin Hyperloop.  More and more I'm coming to believe this is serious stuff.

 

https://www.msnbc.co...ure-93820997657

[johnfwd]

This new revolutionary mass-transit technology is proceeding slowly but surely.

 

https://www.cnbc.com...er-journey.html

[Austin55]

Virgin Hyperloop lays off 111 staffers as it abandons plans for passenger transport

https://www.engadget...-111823967.html

[txbornviking]

also, NCTCOG has announced they will no longer be considering hyperloop for a Dallas-Ft. Worth connection and will focus solely on high-speed rail as part of its plans to develop the Interstate 30 rail corridor between the two cities.

 

https://www.railtech...igh-speed-rail/

[GenX]

also, NCTCOG has announced they will no longer be considering hyperloop for a Dallas-Ft. Worth connection and will focus solely on high-speed rail as part of its plans to develop the Interstate 30 rail corridor between the two cities.

 

https://www.railtech...igh-speed-rail/

 

Good ! They should not of wasted a penny or second of time on this ridiculous thing in the first place. In my opinion it looked like a giant sewer pipe.  

[Dylan]

I'm glad the NCTCOG is no longer pursuing the technology option that has not been fully developed and would eliminate the possibility of a one seat ride from Fort Worth to Houston.