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"Fort Worth": Going, going...gone?


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#201 Dylan

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 08:33 PM

On TV, Dallas-Fort Worth area news affiliates do a good job of recognizing the market as Dallas-Fort Worth.

 

Unfortunately, the internet is a different story. WFAA's website description doesn't recognize Fort Worth, and CBS DFW recently removed Fort Worth from its website description.

 

It now says: "Dallas News, Weather, Sports from CBS Channel 11 - News, Sports, Weather, Traffic, and the Best of DFW."


-Dylan


#202 roverone

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 10:10 PM

We are lucky that we have held on to the DFW naming as long as we have.

 

Over the last week or two a company named Firefly which offers electronic marketing signs atop ride share and other vehicles has been driving our city displaying a Texas flag and the text saying Hello Dallas.  I have seen different vehicles on Main Street in downtown, and also on CTP.

 

It stabs me in the heart for multiple reasons -- first, just to see the message having the wrong city; but also because it is their business model to provide analytics of where what messages are being shown -- it is unforgivable that they can't get the right message in our city.



#203 renamerusk

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 10:27 PM

Here's what should be done.

 

The City of Fort Worth passes a resolution that media companies may not incorporate the name "Fort Worth" as part of their market rights unless the media company describes itself in equal parts Fort Worth and Dallas.

 

It does less harm to Fort Worth than it does harm to a media company that sells itself to advertisers based upon readership/viewership.  Dallas Area without Fort Worth Area is smaller than Houston Area. 

 

Fort Worth should be ferocious about what it expects when the name of Fort Worth is tagged.



#204 johnfwd

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 09:45 AM

Here's what should be done.

 

The City of Fort Worth passes a resolution that media companies may not incorporate the name "Fort Worth" as part of their market rights unless the media company describes itself in equal parts Fort Worth and Dallas.

 

It does less harm to Fort Worth than it does harm to a media company that sells itself to advertisers based upon readership/viewership.  Dallas Area without Fort Worth Area is smaller than Houston Area. 

 

Fort Worth should be ferocious about what it expects when the name of Fort Worth is tagged.

 

Good idea.  I would go much further than a non-binding resolution, but I suppose that's all the Council can do short of passing an ordinance (which doesn't seem likely or even legally binding on private transactions).  No enforcement there, I believe.  But, as I stated in the Dickie's Arena thread recently, private and public contract negotiators--where it is relevant concerning the brand name "Fort Worth"--could insert a legally binding clause.



#205 JBB

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 10:44 AM

You're a lawyer, so I assume you would know better than me.  Would that not create a free speech issue?  The arena and AT&T stadium are likely another animal since it is likely private entities having an agreement with a performer or a broadcaster, but I would think a government body telling people how to brand something on a public street would be an issue.



#206 johnfwd

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 11:23 AM

You're a lawyer, so I assume you would know better than me.  Would that not create a free speech issue?  The arena and AT&T stadium are likely another animal since it is likely private entities having an agreement with a performer or a broadcaster, but I would think a government body telling people how to brand something on a public street would be an issue.

Sorry if my post in response to the prior post I was quoting was misinterpreted.  I believe you were referring to the post about the "Firefly" marketing sign on the side of vehicles driving on public streets.  Of course, in that regard, you are correct about free speech.   I was focusing on the role of the city strictly in contracting with media companies licensed to perform in public municipally owned venues.  I glanced at the Firefly-related post but was reacting mainly to the post I just quoted.  I guess I had the Dickie's Arena example too much in my mind.



#207 JBB

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 11:30 AM

I'm an idiot.  I didn't read your post or the one you quoted as closely as I should have.  Sorry.  Carry on.



#208 renamerusk

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 12:46 PM

You're a lawyer, so I assume you would know better than me.  Would that not create a free speech issue?  The arena and AT&T stadium are likely another animal since it is likely private entities having an agreement with a performer or a broadcaster, but I would think a government body telling people how to brand something on a public street would be an issue.

 

Like the Senate can and often does, it passes a non-binding resolution known as "A Sense of The Senate".  Fort Worth could do something similar.

 

Wikipedia - a non-binding resolution is a written motion adopted by a deliberative body that cannot progress into a law. The substance of the resolution can be anything that can normally be proposed as a motion.

This type of resolution is often used to express the body's approval or disapproval of something that they cannot otherwise vote on,[1] due to the matter being handled by another jurisdiction, or being protected by a constitution. An example would be a resolution of support for a nation's troops in battle, which carries no legal weight, but is adopted for moral support.

 

As to the "freedom of speech" argument, I do not think that it would be a constitutional issue. It is an issue of copyright for the City and I would say that the media behavior in suing it is more akin to the acts of a squatter - taking ownership of something that does not belong to you. This would also seem to be applicable when the NFL, NBA, NHL ,etc. tags Fort Worth as the territorial property of Dallas.  In a one exception, the leagues do demonstrate a sense area inclusiveness by using Minnesota as the name of their teams. And of course, The Rangers are the best giving recognition to all in the North Texas area.

 

I do believe that organizations that tag the name "Fort Worth" for statistical and ratings numbers for monetary gain and then to conveniently omit Fort Worth at their convenience may be viewed as causing tangible and material harm to the City when their actions indirectly favor one city above the other.

 

If you tag "Fort Worth", then always included in your brand; if choose not too, at least ask those who used our name to be factual that the statistics and ratings that you provide are incorrect and misleading.



#209 johnfwd

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 12:58 PM

I'm an idiot.  I didn't read your post or the one you quoted as closely as I should have.  Sorry.  Carry on.

No, you are not an idiot.  Irrespective of your missing the posts you were right on with respect to free speech.  Now, we know free speech is regulated.  Obviously a vehicle on a public street cannot have a sign on its side depicting a pornographic scene.  But I think proper advertising can pass muster constitutionally with respect to what was described in Post #202 above.

 

Rename, can you elaborate on what specifically you are referring to in Post #208 regarding your phrase "copyright for the City?"



#210 renamerusk

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 03:44 PM

Rename, can you elaborate on what specifically you are referring to in Post #208 regarding your phrase "copyright for the City?"

 

Actually, I think that I may have introduced the phrase "copyright" too loosely. I performed a search on the topic and it is generally agreed that the use of the name of a city has very few restrictions

 

I think that there is an overall consensus that we feel aggrieved by the routine behavior of businesses who conveniently omit the proper name "Fort Worth" in their brand while at the same  time establishing both Dallas and Fort Worth as a single proprietorial area.

 

One of the clearest signals given by the City of Fort Worth to a locally based company was presumably a communique (written or verbally,) to American Airlines that it should want to make public assertions of its relationship to Fort Worth (headquartered, flight arrivals, etc.) clear and unambiguous.  American Airlines was quite agreeable to this "Sense of the City" clearly understanding the business and the incentives that it receives from Fort Worth.  Arlington took a tougher and binding step by stipulating that the proper name "Arlington" is the only city name that could be included in a brand of its city owned properties; and this effectively precludes the name "Dallas Cowboys Stadium" from ever being officially used to brand AT&T Stadium.

 

But to return to the concerns that have been frequently repeated about the general omission of "Fort Worth"; it is possible ,should there be the will, for the City to simply make its Sense known to specific companies according to their perceived and special significance and can do in a signal to them that they should want to make public assertions to their ties or relationship to the City of Fort Worth.



#211 eastfwther

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Posted 24 December 2019 - 07:42 AM

The marketing of the Dallas Cowboys has been nothing short of amazing.  As a non-football fan and Dallas Cowboy hater, I'm amazed at how this team remains so popular and profitable.  They haven't been great or seen a superbowl in decades. 

The last time they went to the SB was the year my nephew was born.  He's finished college, working, and has a child of his own.  Every time I hear that "America's Team" moniker, my stomach turns a little. 



#212 renamerusk

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 12:36 AM

I once enrolled into a community college journalism class.  The class covered how journalism works and a lesson covered Associated Press judge to be the proper manner for its stories to be published.  The dateline for all cities was established decades ago.  The AP using its own criteria decided what U.S. Cities would not require the name of the state be included in the dateline. I may have blogged about earlier in a thread.

 

.......Incidentally, most don't know this, but the regional Associated Press is located in Dallas.  So any big news event in our region that is covered by AP gets the location name "Dallas."  It also helps to have all the major TV networks' affiliates identifying themselves as being in Dallas......In my opinion, national public perception, augmented by the national news media, creates a city's identify.  But, back to the sports rivalry idea, I believe our city would profit immensely, money-wise and in terms of national identify, if we have a major sports team to rival Dallas's.

 

 Sunday's shooting in a White Settlement, Texas (Fort Worth) was reported across the globe.  The circumstances surrounding the shooting were horrifying and I am not intending to minimized what happen or the loss of life.  So with

 

Associated Press (AP) filed its report with an interview taken by its reporters with the heroic security guard along with details cited and provided numerous times provided by Dallas' TV Station KXAS,  this is the station we local are familiar with as  Fort Worth.KXAS-TV, virtual channel 5, a NBC owned-and-operated television station licensed to Fort Worth, Texas, United States and serving the Dallas–Fort Worth Metroplex.; and headquartered in Fort Worth, Texas

 

 The one that started here in 1944  (Broadcast Hill)

1024px-FirstWBAP-KXASstudiosandoffices.j

 

The AP reporting is less than perfect.



#213 johnfwd

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Posted 29 July 2021 - 07:11 AM

I've noticed more and more that Fort Worth's TV stations are becoming Dallas-based in reality.  If you surf the Web you'll see the logo's "CBS Dallas" and "NBC Dallas."  The news departments at Channels 5 and 11 try hard to feature Fort Worth stories, but lately I've watched more stories about Dallas residents, organizations, and businesses, than overwise.   The commercials mostly feature Dallas businesses, which has been the case for as long as I can remember.  I often wonder if Fort Worth businesses even care to advertise on TV.

 

Of course, the backdrop photos for the new anchors and meteorologists alternate between the Dallas and Fort Worth downtown skylines.

 

If this brings a "ho hum" reaction across the metroplex, I don't like it but understand it.  Apathy by Fort Worthians is an abdication of our city's identify in the North Texas region.  Does anyone in Fort Worth care that we no longer have TV stations?



#214 John T Roberts

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Posted 29 July 2021 - 07:41 AM

I do and I always have cared.  I'm pretty sure Amon Carter is spinning in his grave constantly.

 

I'm just thankful that I started Architecture in Fort Worth and the Fort Worth Forum to spread the word to a small select group of people about my hometown.



#215 Nitixope

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Posted 29 July 2021 - 07:43 AM

I frankly could do without broadcast news stations.  It seems like every time I turn it on they're trying to outdo themselves from the previous day's reporting on murder, death and disease.  Quite depressing actually.  Where I grew up they had some amazing photojournalists and almost every evening had a 5-7 minute point of interest special story, some uplifting, some investigative but I don't see much of this in DFW.  As far as advertising, how many car dealership and air conditioning repair commercials can one watch before you tune it all out?  Unless my internet is out, I rarely subject myself to watching broadcast television, it's almost painful to sit through any of that advertising now with SmartTV's apps etc.  I can't think of many Fort Worth-based businesses that do not serve the entire metroplex and vice versa so I'm not sure what we are looking for that is Fort Worth centric?



#216 roverone

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Posted 29 July 2021 - 12:07 PM

I still watch broadcast TV.  I think WFAA still airs a good number of special interest stories including some from Fort Worth.  At least one of their anchors lives in Fort Worth and Bud Kennedy is in their local political coverage each week.

 

They relatively recently replaced their downtown Fort Worth camera and the new one is of high quality and they are often using it during weather segments.  That is not the same as solid representation, but it is something.

 

For sure it was trouble that we let all of the local stations slide east -- I really wish we could have incentivized 1 or 2 to stay hear.  There is always going to be a matter of "out of sight, out of mind" if the news team never gets this far west.

 

It was inevitable to be marginalized for advertisers and other stories -- because over-the-air we are a single market and you have to pay for every eyeball, and if most of them are to the east, it is no longer cost effective if you are only trying to attract people on the west.  ATSC 3.0 might help this with more targeted advertising, or it might just be a disaster.

 

I do wish we had an Amon Carter like advocate for our city again. As John said, this forum is certainly full of people who care about our city -- we are fortunate that he created it.



#217 Nitixope

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Posted 29 July 2021 - 01:21 PM

I still watch broadcast TV.  I think WFAA still airs a good number of special interest stories including some from Fort Worth.  At least one of their anchors lives in Fort Worth and Bud Kennedy is in their local political coverage each week.

 

They relatively recently replaced their downtown Fort Worth camera and the new one is of high quality and they are often using it during weather segments.  That is not the same as solid representation, but it is something.

 

For sure it was trouble that we let all of the local stations slide east -- I really wish we could have incentivized 1 or 2 to stay hear.  There is always going to be a matter of "out of sight, out of mind" if the news team never gets this far west.

 

It was inevitable to be marginalized for advertisers and other stories -- because over-the-air we are a single market and you have to pay for every eyeball, and if most of them are to the east, it is no longer cost effective if you are only trying to attract people on the west.  ATSC 3.0 might help this with more targeted advertising, or it might just be a disaster.

 

I do wish we had an Amon Carter like advocate for our city again. As John said, this forum is certainly full of people who care about our city -- we are fortunate that he created it.

 

I was thinking about this during lunch, and I have watched some wonderful broadcasts on KERA including CEO with Lee CullumThe DaytripperTexas Country Reporter and others that have done spectacular photojournalistic work and interviews.  Not that I have a chance to watch during the week, but Good Morning Texas and some of the midday news broadcasts do a good job of local feature stories and in studio interviews....now if we could convince them to do more stories about Fort Worth, that would be ideal.



#218 JBB

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 12:07 AM

I used to be a total local tv news junky.  I kept Fox 4 on in the mornings since they were all local until 9:00am and I watched WFAA at 10:00pm.  Most nights I watched on the DVR so I could fast forward through the commercials, weather, and sports (I get my weather and sports online).  I've preferred Fox 4 for their local focus and WFAA for their professional approach.  NBC5 and CBS11 feel tabloidish and amateur.  

 

Letting the local affiliates is all well and good, but the best approach is to speak with your viewing habits.  None of these outlets are locally owned and the people that run them are concerned with ratings and ad money.



#219 elpingüino

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Posted 16 June 2022 - 09:16 PM

I'm not shocked when the national media inaccurately refer to AT&T Stadium's location, but this is a new low for the Star-Telegram.

How to buy tickets to FIFA 2026 World Cup matches in Dallas

#220 Nitixope

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Posted 16 June 2022 - 10:19 PM

Brayden Garcia even went to UTA and is from Mineral Wells. He ought to know better.

#221 johnfwd

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Posted 17 June 2022 - 08:11 AM

This morning I listened to a KRLD radio report on the cities chosen to host the World Cup matches.  Dallas being one of the cities. Will the World Cup competition be at AT&T Stadium? If so, the city of Arlington--not Dallas--should be recognized as the host.  If I were an Arlington promoter I would be upset at this lack of national recognition.



#222 JBB

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Posted 17 June 2022 - 08:53 AM

8 out of the 16 host stadiums are not in the city limits of the host city.  To be honest, someone from Japan or Spain or Brazil isn't going to know that AT&T Stadium is in Arlington and not Dallas any more than they'll know that Estadio BBVA is in Guadalupe and not Monterrey or that SoFi is in Inglewood and not Los Angeles.  Even if you tell them that, they aren't likely to care enough to remember.



#223 rriojas71

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Posted 17 June 2022 - 01:44 PM

JBB you are correct... No one from outside the US is going to know where Arlington is.  Most of them won't even know where Fort Worth is.



#224 johnfwd

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Posted 15 July 2022 - 10:56 AM

Because Fort Worth is growing, almost exponentially, in population, commerce, and industry, it irks me to make the following observation.  A road trip back from Oklahoma City, along I-35W, over the 4th holiday reminded me of such.  What I mean is that "Fort Worth" figuratively does not exist, as far as the Interstate Highway system is concerned, until you get south of Gainesville.  Every mileage sign I spotted from OKC to Gainesville cites "Dallas."  Never mind that Dallas is actually far southeast of I35W and the largest city immediately south on that highway is Fort Worth.  But it's only when I35E splits from I35W that Fort Worth appears on a mileage sign.  Maybe this doesn't matter to most people.  I guess I'm too sensitive a Fort Worthian to not to notice it.



#225 Jeriat

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Posted 15 July 2022 - 12:17 PM

Because Fort Worth is growing, almost exponentially, in population, commerce, and industry, it irks me to make the following observation.  A road trip back from Oklahoma City, along I-35W, over the 4th holiday reminded me of such.  What I mean is that "Fort Worth" figuratively does not exist, as far as the Interstate Highway system is concerned, until you get south of Gainesville.  Every mileage sign I spotted from OKC to Gainesville cites "Dallas."  Never mind that Dallas is actually far southeast of I35W and the largest city immediately south on that highway is Fort Worth.  But it's only when I35E splits from I35W that Fort Worth appears on a mileage sign.  Maybe this doesn't matter to most people.  I guess I'm too sensitive a Fort Worthian to not to notice it.

 

Honestly... I feel like as Fort Worth has grown and over the last decade and a half, pushed to gain more national attention by bringing in ESPN, building a new arena that's gotten rave reviews by national outlets and created a film commission to where people like Kendrick Lamar films music videos here, I've noticed... at least it seems, that Dallas has been pushing back even harder to present ALL of this area as "Dallas", especially Mayor Johnson over there. 


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#226 Dylan

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Posted 16 July 2022 - 12:20 AM

Unfortunately, Interstate 35 mile markers From Laredo to Gainesville follow 35E through Dallas.

 

Interstate 35W mile markers are numbered as if I-35W were a separate interstate from I-35.

 

If you drive from Gainesville to Dallas, you see mile markers 370... 371... 372... 373... 374... 375... etc.

 

If you drive from Gainesville to Fort Worth, you see mile markers 370... 371... 0... 1... 2... 3... etc.


-Dylan


#227 John T Roberts

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Posted 16 July 2022 - 09:44 AM

It could have been made worse.  At one time, there was discussion about designating I-35E as just I-35 and then designating I-35W as a spur or loop interstate.  That would have made I-35W a 3 digit interstate number with 35 being the last two digits.  Spurs start with an odd number and loops start with an even number.






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