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Texas A&M to build urban satellite campus in Fort Worth

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#51 WTXKid

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Posted 26 May 2022 - 11:56 AM

 

Didnt the island just receive $400M? I would not call that uncertainty. Gdvanc, have you heard of Austin, TX? How about West Campus right next to UT? We can replicate the equation here. That A&M campus could be the biggest decision the city makes for the next 100 years. Austin55, that was my first thought but I eventually realized that Butler is on too much of an island and its only 40 or so acres. Just too small to really make an impact.

 

Yes, I've heard of Austin - believe it or not. When UT was established about 140 years ago, Austin was a very different town. It looked something like this:

Austin-1887-Color.jpg

 

 

 

UT has certainly benefitted from its location and the city has benefitted, but if they were building UT from scratch now, it wouldn't be sited where it is - that land would be too valuable. Right, but the land only became valuable because UT created a talent pipeline for Austin's tech centric economy. UT fed Austin. Where would Austin be today if UT did not exist? Austin would be competing with San Antonio for Texas State students.

 

It's not a great comparison in any case. UT is a top 20 school in several categories with an enrollment of over 50,000 people from around the world, and it finds itself sitting in the capital of a state with a large economy, a city that has successfully attracted a number of high-tech companies and that anchors one of the fastest-growing metropolitan areas in the country. The equation is very, very different. You can argue that UTs presence is part of the draw for some of these things, but I'd respond that this would not change if the campus had been built a couple miles outside of what is now downtown. This A&M campus will sit at the heart of the fastest growing large city in America, in a region that is amongst some of the world's largest economies. So why is the equation so different? I mean UT came before the tech industry but, right? I would argue what we see in Austin today would have never taken place without the talent pipeline being generated by UT. So does Fort Worth want to be a tech centric city or not? That's what I am trying to address. Let's just say we had the A&M campus on Panther Island and it grew to 50K students over 50 to 100 years (UT Dallas is at 30K and I think they are 60 years old - also one of the best and most affordable public universities in the country). What do you think would happen to Fort Worth? What do you think would happen to the regional economy (Tarrant County)? What would happen to downtown? Why couldn't this campus become a top 20 campus over the next 100 years? These are not rhetorical questions. I want to know what you think. 

 

 

Whatever A&M's plans are for their Fort Worth satellite, it is unlikely to ever be that. And whatever benefit it brings to the city, it can provide it where it is now. If it can ever support anything comparable to UT's West Campus, having that in that underdeveloped part of southeast downtown wouldn't be a horrible thing. It would be good for that part of downtown, nearest major transit hubs, to grow. I mean, it's still downtown. Agreed! The current location is a good location for a Satellite campus. However, I think we are missing the opportunity to do so much more. And that's the point of my post. And if Panther Island was so valuable, Developers would have figured it out long ago. Instead, the drive-in movie theater (which I love by the way) just signed a 7 year lease extension. I'm telling you, something is missing and the infrastructure improvements aren't going to build mini Vancouver. Honestly, I don't think we should be altering the Trinity trail/park system. If you look at the proposed plan today almost all of the open space goes. That trail system/river is arguably Fort Worth's best asset Fort Worth. When I see the Panther Island model I think we just want to become Dallas Jr. No, I want to be Fort Worth. We all know what's going to happen. Developers from Dallas are going to develop Panther Island. Get ready for Texas donuts on all 800 acres.

 

I'm not sure you mean when you say that the "A&M campus could be the biggest decision the city makes for the next 100 years." What about this is a city decision? Betsy Price and Jon Goff were the ones that made the call to TAMU leadership. They started to talk about what an expanded TAMU presence meant in Fort Worth. Here's something interesting for you, someone serving on a task force board told me that A&M was originally considering land along east Lancaster for the new campus. So yes, "the city," our leaders had a hand in steering the location of this campus. 

 

I applaud your desire to see Fort Worth shine. I'm pretty sure most forum members do. We're just not all going to agree on how to get there. Or even what that looks like. I agree, and sorry about the "have you heard of Austin?" comment. I appreciate you entertaining the thought. Ultimately, that's the purpose of a forum. The exchange of ideas!

 



#52 Dylan

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Posted 26 May 2022 - 08:18 PM

One big positive about the currently planned location: it's within walking distance of Central Station, so students and faculty will be able to take the train or bus to work.


-Dylan


#53 roverone

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Posted 26 May 2022 - 10:21 PM

I think it is also important to say that the downtown site comes with pre-existing transportation and restaurants and living spaces.

 

A campus in the Panther Island might incentivize those things, but I'm not sure it is reasonable to ask the university build a campus cantilevered, hoping for infill to hold it up, rather than build on top of infrastructure that already exists.



#54 WTXKid

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 05:08 AM

Roverone, interesting comment. As the crow flys, the University would be 1/2 a mile from downtown and 1.8 miles from the heart of the stock yards. I wouldnt consider that to be cantilevered. I also dont think it would depend on infill. I think the campus creates the opportunity for infill on Panther Island and downtown neighborhoods. As proposed, the campus would probably suffer on panther island if it didnt include undergraduate studies and housing. Eventually, Id like to see the campus grow to include division 1 teams. I think we should all recognize A&M for what it is. At 18 billion in the endowment, the university could pull this off. And yes, land is expensive but this is where I would call on the Fort Worth way to get this done. This potential campus could transcend the city limits by attracting donors from all over the US. It would be interesting to see.

#55 WTXKid

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 05:13 AM

Dylan, agreed on the transit connection. However, I think the eventual panther island plan includes a street car that connects to our other downtown stations. So, you would think that alternative modes of transit would still be available.

#56 rriojas71

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 08:34 AM

Dylan, agreed on the transit connection. However, I think the eventual panther island plan includes a street car that connects to our other downtown stations. So, you would think that alternative modes of transit would still be available.

It does include a street car but it is still several years away from happening; if it ever does.  TAMU has the funds now and wouldn't really want to wait on what may be when they already have what they need now.  Maybe if the project wasn't 15 years behind schedule then maybe we would be thinking differently.



#57 WTXKid

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Posted 28 May 2022 - 11:23 AM

Rriojas71, you have a point. Although, building the campus downtown is a double edged sword. Let's say the impact of the campus is super successful and spurs a huge wave of development around it. Then the campus becomes land locked. That is what I call short sighted. Panther Island land remains relatively affordable (the last ad is saw was 3M/11 acres). I think there are enough corporations and individuals interested that the A&M system and elected leaders could raise the money to buy a sizeable portion of Panther Island. 15 years from now we are going to solve our Panther Island issues and then the land will become too expensive. 



#58 roverone

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Posted 28 May 2022 - 06:33 PM

I don't think it is good to overburden development with not only their own intentions, but also the intentions of the city.  As mentioned, if Panther Island had not become mired with dysfunction, it might have been a good choice, but it was mired.

 

They are not required to be the catalyst for what we may or may not want that Panther Island unfulfilled development to be.  As it is, they have strong support not only from the university, but also from an important local developer.  It is not right to think poorly of their decision because we wish to be hopeful for another area.

 

I believe that with all the support they have they will be successful and it will make an important contribution to downtown.

 

I do not believe it is short sighted, but rather it will help fill the new apartments that are already on the books in that downtown area.

 

You could look at it another way: by utilizing this under-utilized part of downtown, the are leaving available land in Pather Island for other developments that would not be suitable for that lonely SE part of downtown.



#59 Crestline

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 06:57 AM

Rriojas71, you have a point. Although, building the campus downtown is a double edged sword. Let's say the impact of the campus is super successful and spurs a huge wave of development around it. Then the campus becomes land locked. That is what I call short sighted. Panther Island land remains relatively affordable (the last ad is saw was 3M/11 acres). I think there are enough corporations and individuals interested that the A&M system and elected leaders could raise the money to buy a sizeable portion of Panther Island. 15 years from now we are going to solve our Panther Island issues and then the land will become too expensive. 

 

Landlocked, sure, but inside what boundary? In theory the new campus could expand from the planned red boundary to this hypothetical orange boundary, right?

 

KrRBEBU.png

 

I know it would be more expensive for A&M to buy out to the edges of the orange boundary than to buy a big chunk of panther island, but my point is that I don't think we should treat the planned red boundary as an absolute limit on the new campus size. 



#60 Austin55

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 08:33 PM

Plus, the A&M System has 80+ acres in Fort Worth already. 



#61 Austin55

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Posted 11 June 2022 - 04:26 PM

Sounds like some utilty prep could begin very soon. 

 

 

The City of Fort Worth Transportation and Public Works Department (TPW) requests the temporary closure of 9th Street between Commerce

Street and Calhoun Street for the construction of two projects by Oncor Electric in close proximity. These projects are the 27-story Deco 969
residence and the future expansion of the Texas A&M School of Law complex. Construction will include constructing two electric vaults; one to
serve Deco 969 between Commerce Street and Calhoun Street and the other at the intersection of Calhoun Street & 9th Street to serve the future
Texas A&M Law School expansion. After this closure expires on August 31, 2022 the Deco 969 project will still occupy the westbound lane of 9th
Street for continued construction activities. 

 

https://fortworthgov...28-35D0B1800845



#62 WTXKid

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Posted 14 June 2022 - 06:05 AM

https://fortworthrep...81807-527651671

#63 Jeriat

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Posted 14 June 2022 - 11:14 AM

 

 

“When the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers completes the Fort Worth Central City project and decommissions the levee, the area for the levees on Panther Island will be able to be developed,” said Dana Burghdoff, assistant city manager. But the core Panther Island property away from the levees and bypass channel can be developed at any time.”

------------------------------------------------

So... what's taking so long for that, then?


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#64 rriojas71

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Posted 14 June 2022 - 02:40 PM

I'm not sure what this has to do with the new A&M campus.  Shouldn't this go under the Panther Island thread?



#65 JBB

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Posted 14 June 2022 - 03:27 PM

WTXKid is unhappy about A&M's decision to build on the land they already own instead of on Panther Island land.



#66 WTXKid

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Posted 14 June 2022 - 05:38 PM

Lol JBB unhappy
More like passionate about the citys future.

#67 WTXKid

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Posted 14 June 2022 - 05:41 PM

Jeriat, this sounds like a classic money grab for consultants. At this point, its going to be 20 years before we reach substantial completion.

#68 WTXKid

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Posted 14 June 2022 - 05:49 PM

Jeriat, thats my point! Especially if land is 9 to 15 sqft. Thats cheap. Okay, so if theres no reason to build then give Developers a reason. TAMU FW at Panther Island.

#69 rriojas71

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Posted 14 June 2022 - 07:05 PM

Jeriat, this sounds like a classic money grab for consultants. At this point, its going to be 20 years before we reach substantial completion.

Unfortunately Kid as much as it pains me to say it; 20 years is being overly optimistic.  It would be doable if all the pieces fall into place and also if we didn't have JD Granger spearheading this for the past 20 years.  At the TRWD tent at Mayfest they were touting 50 years for it all to come together.

 

I like your idea about TAMU but honestly it is never going to happen because they already own the land downtown that they are going to build on.



#70 Austin55

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Posted 16 June 2022 - 04:49 PM

Hopefully, when the case goes before the Downtown Design Review Board, the architects will either dress up the bare parking garages, or the DDRB will ask them to improve the appearance of the garages. 

 

I was having a discussion about the design issues with this project recently and it was brought up that A&M, being a state entity, is not bound by rules set by local municipalities, and therefor might not DDRB approval or even to follow the design standards at all. Is anyone familiar with this?



#71 Nitixope

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Posted 16 June 2022 - 05:03 PM

As far as I know, they fall under the OFPC (Office of Facilities Planning and Construction). Not sure if since they are a land-grant, sea-grant and a space-grant institution, if that means the Morrill Acts of 1862 and 1890 would allow their design standards to supersede a municipality. Was the land downtown obtained through federal funding? Need to verify.

https://assets.syste...elines63021.pdf

https://www.tamu.edu...ut/history.html

#72 Presidio Interests

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Posted 15 July 2022 - 07:03 PM

IMO Downtown FW Inc has done a great job guiding development design in Downtown.  I have no reason to believe TAMU FW would blow off the design guidelines or the guidance of the people with City Staff and DFWI...

 

BUT, if for some reason TAMU did NOT work closely with City Staff & DFWI, I'd be really concerned since it appears TAMU hasn't built anything in an environment like this and our local teams would increase the chance that the TAMUFW's campus will be successful (meaning, welcoming, attractive to students, etc and fitting in well with Downtown pedestrian environment)



#73 elpingüino

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Posted 15 August 2022 - 07:04 PM

A&M expands its Fort Worth presence with 10K sqft of office space in Burnett Plaza. https://www.tamus.ed...-in-fort-worth/

#74 elpingüino

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Posted 18 September 2022 - 07:34 AM

The Dallas Business Journal continues its very good coverage of Fort Worth with a cover report about A&M's Fort Worth project. No breaking news from the architecture side but it examines in-depth what it all means for the city.

It says Fort Worths "industry titans," such as Alcon to Lockheed Martin, are already discussing with the A&M System how to take advantage of the "sweeping R&D" and "staggering workforce implications" the expansion promises to deliver.

Texas A&M is engineering Fort Worth for the next century

dallas-00613-fullcover2x*600.png

#75 Big Frog II

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Posted 18 September 2022 - 12:19 PM

Any idea when they will break ground?



#76 Nitixope

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Posted 18 September 2022 - 05:16 PM

Is that cover art a new rendering? I didnt realize until now how odd that courtyard is. Maybe its just artwork and not fully designed?

#77 Austin55

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Posted 18 September 2022 - 07:50 PM

Any idea when they will break ground?

 

From this release,

 

"The campus will be built on several blocks adjacent to the existing Texas A&M University’s School of Law building, which is also scheduled to be replaced in 2024. The cost of the Law and Education Building, which is scheduled for 2023 construction, will be paid with proceeds from the Public University Fund. The Research and Innovation Center is scheduled to be built in 2024."

 

 

In more detail, 

 

7kGHzJe.png

 

Is that cover art a new rendering? I didnt realize until now how odd that courtyard is. Maybe its just artwork and not fully designed?

 

I think that was one of the images released at the announcement, just cropped a bit (the last image in the slide deck)

 

https://www.tamus.edu/ft-worth/



#78 BFrog88

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Posted 20 September 2022 - 05:20 PM

A&M expands its Fort Worth presence with 10K sqft of office space in Burnett Plaza. https://www.tamus.ed...-in-fort-worth/


Interesting note from this release:

“The new Texas A&M University System offices will be located in the Burnett Plaza in downtown Fort Worth. Several member institutions will be moving into the lease space this fall. These include Texas A&M AgriLife, Texas Division of Emergency Management, Texas A&M Engineering, the Mays Business School, Tarleton State University, and others. These Texas A&M System members will be among the first entities to join the Texas A&M University School of Law as part of recently planned expansion into Fort Worth.”

Including their business school for administrative offices ahead of the new campus is interesting. I’ve long assumed A&M’s ambitions in Fort Worth would include directly challenging TCU (and others) on their home turf, including in the MBA space. Those programs are big revenue centers. This would seem to be a possible significant step toward launching an A&M MBA in Fort Worth. At public school prices and with their brand and alumni network, they would be an immediate player.

#79 Nitixope

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Posted 20 September 2022 - 08:11 PM

 

A&M expands its Fort Worth presence with 10K sqft of office space in Burnett Plaza. https://www.tamus.ed...-in-fort-worth/


Interesting note from this release:

“The new Texas A&M University System offices will be located in the Burnett Plaza in downtown Fort Worth. Several member institutions will be moving into the lease space this fall. These include Texas A&M AgriLife, Texas Division of Emergency Management, Texas A&M Engineering, the Mays Business School, Tarleton State University, and others. These Texas A&M System members will be among the first entities to join the Texas A&M University School of Law as part of recently planned expansion into Fort Worth.”

Including their business school for administrative offices ahead of the new campus is interesting. I’ve long assumed A&M’s ambitions in Fort Worth would include directly challenging TCU (and others) on their home turf, including in the MBA space. Those programs are big revenue centers. This would seem to be a possible significant step toward launching an A&M MBA in Fort Worth. At public school prices and with their brand and alumni network, they would be an immediate player.

 

 

and former student network 



#80 johnfwd

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 10:09 AM

As an attorney engaged in bar association activities I have talked with A&M law students who appear to be very enthusiastic about their campus expansion plans.  It also appears, an anecdotal observation. that this class of A&M law students is inclined to be more active in bar association and community activities than were the former Wesleyan law classes. 



#81 John T Roberts

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Posted 14 October 2022 - 09:40 AM

Texas A&M and Fort Worth want to expedite the construction of the Downtown Campus

 

https://fortworthrep...owntown-campus/



#82 Nitixope

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Posted 14 October 2022 - 10:46 AM

Texas A&M and Fort Worth want to expedite the construction of the Downtown Campus
 
https://fortworthrep...owntown-campus/


I see the Central Plaza has a similar unfolded paper airplane design as the National Juneteenth museum.

https://i0.wp.com/fo...=1200,732&ssl=1

#83 Austin55

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Posted 14 October 2022 - 10:54 AM

Lets do this.

 

Rendering from the RFP: https://www.fortwort...aggieland_north

 

GdiIITb.png



#84 txbornviking

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Posted 14 October 2022 - 11:48 AM

Lets do this.

 

Rendering from the RFP: https://www.fortwort...aggieland_north

 

GdiIITb.png

 

LFG indeed!



#85 Austin55

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Posted 14 October 2022 - 11:52 AM

BTHO parking lots



#86 rriojas71

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Posted 14 October 2022 - 11:58 AM

The concept looks great but as many of us here now know the likelihood of this happening is zero to very little..   if any of that does actually get built then every building in the rendering will be half the size which I would still be ok with because I just want the parking lots gone and replaced by functionality.



#87 tamtagon

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Posted 16 October 2022 - 11:16 AM

I would love an expedited campus expansion of that scale! But far more than that, I would love to see an expedited campus expansion of that scale for a Creative Arts University. Perhaps even UNT could build upon the Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine with a graduate level campus for the Music, Art, Media departments. I've always thought a UNT dream expansion like that would be ideal between Deep Ellum and Fair Park, but positioned between Fort Worth Downtown and Museum District could be even better. The Botanical Garden is better suited to creative students than The Arboretum (although White Rock Lake is dreamy....), I've always enjoyed the setting and collections at the Kimbell, Modern, and Amon Carter more than the DMA and Nasher... and for some reason I think greater downtown Fort Worth would score better for creative students than greater downtown Dallas.

 

I'm totally not trying to rekindle a Fort Worth versus Dallas blackhole hahahaha Just thinking about the options. The lack of a $5, 45 minute train ride between these two areas is ridiculous. 

 

Anyway, more lawyers, Yeah  



#88 WTXKid

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Posted 16 October 2022 - 08:53 PM

We could kill two birds with one stone. Build TAMU Fort Worth on Panther Island. 800 acres is enough room to build AM college station. Could you imagine that right next to downtown? It would be incredible.

I would love an expedited campus expansion of that scale! But far more than that, I would love to see an expedited campus expansion of that scale for a Creative Arts University. Perhaps even UNT could build upon the Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine with a graduate level campus for the Music, Art, Media departments. I've always thought a UNT dream expansion like that would be ideal between Deep Ellum and Fair Park, but positioned between Fort Worth Downtown and Museum District could be even better. The Botanical Garden is better suited to creative students than The Arboretum (although White Rock Lake is dreamy....), I've always enjoyed the setting and collections at the Kimbell, Modern, and Amon Carter more than the DMA and Nasher... and for some reason I think greater downtown Fort Worth would score better for creative students than greater downtown Dallas.

 

I'm totally not trying to rekindle a Fort Worth versus Dallas blackhole hahahaha Just thinking about the options. The lack of a $5, 45 minute train ride between these two areas is ridiculous. 

 

Anyway, more lawyers, Yeah  



#89 JBB

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Posted 16 October 2022 - 09:15 PM

I think it's gonna be pretty nice downtown too.  Development in the Panther Island area will happen.  No need to force it by taking more land off of the tax rolls.



#90 Jeriat

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Posted 16 October 2022 - 10:02 PM

 

We could kill two birds with one stone. Build TAMU Fort Worth on Panther Island. 800 acres is enough room to build AM college station. Could you imagine that right next to downtown? It would be incredible.

I would love an expedited campus expansion of that scale! But far more than that, I would love to see an expedited campus expansion of that scale for a Creative Arts University. Perhaps even UNT could build upon the Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine with a graduate level campus for the Music, Art, Media departments. I've always thought a UNT dream expansion like that would be ideal between Deep Ellum and Fair Park, but positioned between Fort Worth Downtown and Museum District could be even better. The Botanical Garden is better suited to creative students than The Arboretum (although White Rock Lake is dreamy....), I've always enjoyed the setting and collections at the Kimbell, Modern, and Amon Carter more than the DMA and Nasher... and for some reason I think greater downtown Fort Worth would score better for creative students than greater downtown Dallas.

 

I'm totally not trying to rekindle a Fort Worth versus Dallas blackhole hahahaha Just thinking about the options. The lack of a $5, 45 minute train ride between these two areas is ridiculous. 

 

Anyway, more lawyers, Yeah  

 

I just don't think we need to have college campuses on Panther Island. That needs to be its own thing.

More residential, more "green", more recreational. 


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#91 Crestline

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Posted 18 October 2022 - 08:41 AM

Lets do this.

 

Rendering from the RFP: https://www.fortwort...aggieland_north

 

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#92 RD Milhollin

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Posted 18 October 2022 - 06:58 PM

 

We could kill two birds with one stone. Build TAMU Fort Worth on Panther Island. 800 acres is enough room to build AM college station. Could you imagine that right next to downtown? It would be incredible.

 

A&M College Station is larger than 5500 acres, much of it is parking lots though



#93 johnfwd

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Posted 19 October 2022 - 12:35 PM

One of the A&M system newcomers to the downtown expansion will be Tarleton State University.  As their principal campus is developing in south Fort Worth, I'll be interested in knowing what kind of facility Tarleton will be bringing to east downtown. 



#94 rriojas71

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Posted 20 October 2022 - 09:16 AM

One of the A&M system newcomers to the downtown expansion will be Tarleton State University.  As their principal campus is developing in south Fort Worth, I'll be interested in knowing what kind of facility Tarleton will be bringing to east downtown. 

Are you saying in addition to their campus in SW FW they are building something near the A&M campus?



#95 elpingüino

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Posted 20 October 2022 - 10:35 AM


One of the A&M system newcomers to the downtown expansion will be Tarleton State University.  As their principal campus is developing in south Fort Worth, I'll be interested in knowing what kind of facility Tarleton will be bringing to east downtown. 

Are you saying in addition to their campus in SW FW they are building something neat the A&M campus?

Correct: https://web.tarleton...own-fort-worth/

#96 rriojas71

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Posted 20 October 2022 - 12:53 PM

 

 

One of the A&M system newcomers to the downtown expansion will be Tarleton State University.  As their principal campus is developing in south Fort Worth, I'll be interested in knowing what kind of facility Tarleton will be bringing to east downtown. 

Are you saying in addition to their campus in SW FW they are building something neat the A&M campus?

Correct: https://web.tarleton...own-fort-worth/

 

It says they will be a part of A&M facilities not that they are building their own.







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