46 replies to this topic

[Jeriat]

This has been on my mind for a while, and I was going to do this in the Sundance Square thread... but I had more ideas for downtown as a whole, so I'm doing a separate thread, here. These are my thoughts of what could (or should, even) go into these many left over spaces in downtown. 

Feel free to add your own. 
 

I'll just start with these 4 because... I need to get to bed. 

 

 

[Big Frog II]

I think a Dave and Busters is a great idea for that space.

[Doohickie]

Could you really convert the multi-theater into one large one?  Would the building's structure allow it?

[Jeriat]

Could you really convert the multi-theater into one large one?  Would the building's structure allow it?

 

I honestly don't know. Haven't been in there since it was still a multiplex and that was the late 2000s, so I don't have a good gauge on what renovations would be possible. 

[John T Roberts]

The building's structure will not allow it.  There are two sets of columns running down the middle of the tower that corresponds roughly with the sides of the corridor that serves the residential units above.

[Jeriat]

The building's structure will not allow it.  There are two sets of columns running down the middle of the tower that corresponds roughly with the sides of the corridor that serves the residential units above.

Hmm... Okay, well maybe have the theater on one side and classrooms, ballrooms, meeting space, etc. on the other? It's something that I've had in mind for the abandoned TXU power plant, so maybe this would work better? 

Anyway, I think I'll just do 4 at a time. These take up a lot more time than I thought they would. 

 

[Doohickie]

I love the idea of Little Germany where Uno's was.  The other food places are very good ideas too.  You should work for the Sundance team that markets properties to lessees.

[Stadtplan]

For the burger spot, how about something like Johnny Rockets?  They have a 50's diner vibe but is still somewhat fast casual.  My friend's sister worked there at the Mall of America back in the 90's and they sort of dress like they do at In-N-Out.  I think it was table service then, not sure if it still is or if they've changed that.

 

https://www.fatbrand...johnny-rockets/

[rriojas71]

For the burger spot, how about something like Johnny Rockets?  They have a 50's diner vibe but is still somewhat fast casual.  My friend's sister worked there at the Mall of America back in the 90's and they sort of dress like they do at In-N-Out.  I think it was table service then, not sure if it still is or if they've changed that.

 

https://www.fatbrand...johnny-rockets/

How about M&O Burgers?   Or maybe even Twisted Root Burger Co....  I have always liked their burgers.

[Jeriat]

 

For the burger spot, how about something like Johnny Rockets?  They have a 50's diner vibe but is still somewhat fast casual.  My friend's sister worked there at the Mall of America back in the 90's and they sort of dress like they do at In-N-Out.  I think it was table service then, not sure if it still is or if they've changed that.

 

https://www.fatbrand...johnny-rockets/

How about M&O Burgers?   Or maybe even Twisted Root Burger Co....  I have always liked their burgers.

 

Twisted Root would be good, but given its location, I could see an M&O... in fact, I'd prefer it. 

[Jeriat]

*specialty 

 

*Victory Plaza

 

 

[Stadtplan]

You know the place in the West End that Im surprised is still open is Dicks Last Resort. They seem to always have that tourist draw and special events but have survived. Im not a fan but people seem to like it. I do recall them having a pretty decent lunch menu and they will skip the harassment thing if you are a local just on lunch break.

[Jeriat]

You know place in the West End that Im surprised is still open is Dicks Last Resort. They seem to always have that tourist draw and special events but have survived. Im not a fan but people seem to like it. I do recall them having a pretty decent lunch menu and they will skip the harassment thing if you are a local just on lunch break.

I think DLR would work better in/around The Stockyards or Panther Island, which is easy to say, at the moment.

But if there's a space in downtown for it, I could see it in a space not yet built near Sundance.

[TLA]

Thanks for starting this thread, enjoying the creative suggestions. Jeriat - curious what you think would fit in the old Bird Cafe spot?

A concept by Far Out Hospitality (Maria’s, Le Margot, Press Cafe) would do well there. Their menus/food is consistently good, not too pricey. And their design aesthetic is Instagram-worthy - like with Maria’s. Another Press Cafe there would be welcomed. I love the building and want to see it used again.

HTeaO is expanding like crazy, it would be nice and refreshing to have them somewhere in Sundance Square. The old Jamba Juice location would have been a good fit for foot traffic and brand recognition.
https://fwtx.com/eat...bility-and-gro/

[ramjet]

I actually wrote to HTeO last April and suggested they open up in downtown Fort Worth. This was their reply:

Thank you so much for reaching out! We would love to expand into the downtown Fort Worth / Stockyards area! We appreciate your support!

[rriojas71]

It is definitely fun to come up with some fun ideas about suggestions for vacant spaces. 

 

Unfortunately businesses are not moving Sundance because they wouldn't want to but there are other forces involved who seem to want Sundance to be something else

[Jeriat]

I'm actually taking a break, tonight. Currently in Celina.

As far as the old Bird spot goes... we don't have a NY style pizza joint, so there's a thought.

[Stadtplan]

Brooklyn style pizza by the slice is always a good idea except at Tannahill Tavern. Somehow they managed to mess that up.

[Jeriat]

 

 

 

No seriously, I NEED this place up here, NOW!!!

 

[Stadtplan]

When I was in Berlin, we always loved eating döner kebabs. I wonder if that would have any appeal?

[george84]

Jeriat I grew up on Phoenicia. The original location was a tiny restaurant on Westheimer across the street from the giant complex they have now with the grocery store and everything. Long before the building in downtown was even built where they opened their second location. Their shawarma is the best in Texas IMO. My parents took me there almost every Saturday in the early 90s. Would love if they opened here.

[elpingüino]

I'm actually taking a break, tonight. Currently in Celina.

Side note, speaking of Celina, I read that it's expected to eventually grow to 350,000 people. https://www.dallasne...rth-texas-city/

[steave]

I've been the Phoenicia on Westheimer in Houston and indeed it has some amazing stuff in the bakery. They had some pastries and stuff from Georgia (the country) and that is super hard to find and a rare type of cuisine even most major cities don't have. That said I don't see these kinds of places making it in downtown Fort Worth. Family run businesses that have carved out a niche, but can't take a huge risk and can't afford expensive real estate. I'm not sure how Phoenicia ended up in downtown Houston but that must have been sort of like a dream project for somebody and not possible to replicate.

 

I think the solution is to figure out why existing empty building owners won't accept any tenants, like how much they need to charge for rent, etc, and figure out if the city can do anything to make it work like subsidizing parking and waiving permit costs, etc.

 

Personally I think the best thing would be something like more fast food, a CVS or a Aldi or bigger 7-11. But really the big score would be if we got an urban Target on the southside. I guess the Super Target at Montgomery Plaza precludes that from ever happening elsewhere.

 

Downtown Seattle has an urban format H-Mart which is also pretty cool but I just can't see that being a Fort Worth thing.

[Jeriat]

When I was in Berlin, we always loved eating döner kebabs. I wonder if that would have any appeal?

 

Sounds like good street food. Could have a good spot next to the Plaza. 

 

 

I'm actually taking a break, tonight. Currently in Celina.
 

Side note, speaking of Celina, I read that it's expected to eventually grow to 350,000 people. https://www.dallasne...rth-texas-city/

 

 

Yuck. 
 

I've been the Phoenicia on Westheimer in Houston and indeed it has some amazing stuff in the bakery. They had some pastries and stuff from Georgia (the country) and that is super hard to find and a rare type of cuisine even most major cities don't have. That said I don't see these kinds of places making it in downtown Fort Worth. Family run businesses that have carved out a niche, but can't take a huge risk and can't afford expensive real estate. I'm not sure how Phoenicia ended up in downtown Houston but that must have been sort of like a dream project for somebody and not possible to replicate.

 

I think the solution is to figure out why existing empty building owners won't accept any tenants, like how much they need to charge for rent, etc, and figure out if the city can do anything to make it work like subsidizing parking and waiving permit costs, etc.

 

Personally I think the best thing would be something like more fast food, a CVS or a Aldi or bigger 7-11. But really the big score would be if we got an urban Target on the southside. I guess the Super Target at Montgomery Plaza precludes that from ever happening elsewhere.

 

Downtown Seattle has an urban format H-Mart which is also pretty cool but I just can't see that being a Fort Worth thing.

I understand all of what you're saying, but this thread is merely just me throwing out "what ifs" based on things I've had in mind for months. 

There should be a downtown grocery store. The closest thing there is, now is Neighbor's House in 500 West 7th, but that kinda feels more like a restaurant, in my eyes. I could maybe see a Royal Blue Grocery, as it has been brought up several times here before, but why do I get the feeling that would work better in the Near Southside?  

I could also see a Whole Foods or something like that around Sundance. 

[steave]

Houston got a Whole Foods on Westheimer near Main in Midtown so surely that could work. Midtown Houston is still such a dump I was surprised that happened.

 

Shawarma places always seem to do good in downtown areas. I read somewhere there is a company in Chicago that controls most of the supply of the actual shawarma cone things (you know, the rotating meat tornado) so all those places end up being kind of the same. It's a conspiracy.

[Jeriat]

 

 

 

[Jeriat]

 

Also found this on their website. Maybe it's more common than I think, but I found this to be interesting... 


 

 

[Stadtplan]

Go Fish Poke (Las Colinas)
https://goo.gl/maps/ZsA4HfCgbY6cwtZc7

and Halo Poke Bar (Pantego)
https://goo.gl/maps/rkVYb43FXnHhbWqNA

are a couple more ideas.

I have had Sushi Poki (Irving) too and they have an extensive menu.
https://goo.gl/maps/kSnvoH4G5ttYR5uC8

[RD Milhollin]

Las Vegas is saturated with poke, it gas to be really good or won't make it. My Hawaiian friends living on the 9th island will turn up noses at at the mention of a "fake" poke place... If Fort Worth doesn't have a poke kitchen, well, it needs one!

[Jeriat]

Las Vegas is saturated with poke, it gas to be really good or won't make it. My Hawaiian friends living on the 9th island will turn up noses at at the mention of a "fake" poke place... If Fort Worth doesn't have a poke kitchen, well, it needs one!

We have them.

But they're all at least 5 miles away from Downtown.

[Stadtplan]

Dumb question here...but can someone explain to me the difference (if any) between Hawaiian Poke vs Sushi Poke / Poki?  It seems very different but I don't visit these places enough to pretend I know the difference.  One seems authentically Hawaiian while the other seems like a sushi restaurant that also serves bowls with sushi style ingredients.

[Jeriat]

Dumb question here...but can someone explain to me the difference (if any) between Hawaiian Poke vs Sushi Poke / Poki?  It seems very different but I don't visit these places enough to pretend I know the difference.  One seems authentically Hawaiian while the other seems like a sushi restaurant that also serves bowls with sushi style ingredients.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much it. 

[Stadtplan]

Heres the poke menu from Halo with the build your own concept.

[Jeriat]

[Crestline]

 

 

Is this empty? I googled a bit and figured out that a new coworking company has replaced CommonGrounds: https://www.spaceswo.../cowtown-place/ I haven't been by in person to check though.

[Jeriat]

 

 

 

Is this empty? I googled a bit and figured out that a new coworking company has replaced CommonGrounds: https://www.spaceswo.../cowtown-place/ I haven't been by in person to check though.

 

 

I was pretty sure it was... unless I missed something? 

[Crestline]

 

Is this empty? I googled a bit and figured out that a new coworking company has replaced CommonGrounds: https://www.spaceswo.../cowtown-place/ I haven't been by in person to check though.

 

I was pretty sure it was... unless I missed something? 

 

I biked by yesterday and peeked in the windows and saw that the lights were on. Between the deep tint on the windows and the minimalist signage, it's easy to conclude the building is empty, but I think there's a functioning coworking space in there!

[Jeriat]

 

 

Is this empty? I googled a bit and figured out that a new coworking company has replaced CommonGrounds: https://www.spaceswo.../cowtown-place/ I haven't been by in person to check though.

 

I was pretty sure it was... unless I missed something? 

 

I biked by yesterday and peeked in the windows and saw that the lights were on. Between the deep tint on the windows and the minimalist signage, it's easy to conclude the building is empty, but I think there's a functioning coworking space in there!

 

 

I drove by and it looked like there was still a Leasing sign up, but if it's still in use, that's fine.

[Jeriat]

 

[Jeriat]

[Presidio Interests]

Jeriat, good thread and good idea generation. 

 

I'm interested to read people's ideas (same question) for the South Main Village.

I think of the general boundaries of the SMV: 

Pennsylvania Ave (on the south), I-30 (north), Hemphill (west), and RR tracks (east).

 

What uses or specific types of businesses are missing that would likely do well in 2023?

Same question but for 2030?

 

In case it helps think about pace of SMV change, the rough math I have in mind for residential population in SMV is:

Roughly 1,800 residents in SMV currently, and think roughly 2,400 by end of 2025.

One ~150 key select service hotel will be in place 2024-5.

I'd assume zero additional deliveries of additional housing units in the SMV in 2025-6, maybe a bit longer, w/ possible exception of very small or a heavily subsidized/affordable project.

[Jeriat]

Jeriat, good thread and good idea generation. 

 

I'm interested to read people's ideas (same question) for the South Main Village.

I think of the general boundaries of the SMV: 

Pennsylvania Ave (on the south), I-30 (north), Hemphill (west), and RR tracks (east).

 

What uses or specific types of businesses are missing that would likely do well in 2023?

Same question but for 2030?

 

In case it helps think about pace of SMV change, the rough math I have in mind for residential population in SMV is:

Roughly 1,800 residents in SMV currently, and think roughly 2,400 by end of 2025.

One ~150 key select service hotel will be in place 2024-5.

I'd assume zero additional deliveries of additional housing units in the SMV in 2025-6, maybe a bit longer, w/ possible exception of very small or a heavily subsidized/affordable project.

First, thank you and thank you.

Second, I was thinking of doing this with another neighborhood some time later. 

As far as South Main, and really the Near Southside in general... that's a little harder to come up with, since that entire neighborhood has grown much more organically than West 7th and Sundance, which had heavy corporate influence. 

You could maybe look at places like West Campus in Austin or EaDo in Houston for inspiration. I know they have a couple chains and noted stores like Target here and there, but that's the vibe I get from South Main.

[Dismuke]

There was mention about bringing Whataburger back downtown.

I think the fast-food burger chain that would offer an especially good fit for downtown, if they could be enticed, would be Bruams due to their unique assortment of offerings.

 

For one, they are part conventional fast-food burger place along the lines of Whataburger. My guess is that would probably be busy at lunch time and be popular with tourists who simply want to get a quick, affordable bite to eat.

 

They are part ice cream parlor.  There used to be an ice cream store in Sundance Square where there was usually a constant line of customers in the evenings. I don't know if that ice cream store is still there.  I have always thought that Braums has decent ice cream (which, interestingly, they source from dairy farms they own and operate) and they sell it for a price that is unbeatable.

 

Finally, they operate within their stores a "market" that, in addition to cartons of their ice cream, sells a limited assortment of high demand dairy and grocery items, fruits and vegetables and heat-and-serve type food - a much better assortment of actual grocery type items than one can find at a typical convenience store and at a more reasonable price. 

 

Given the number of people who now live downtown, I suspect that the "market" would prove to be convenient and popular - especially if they were open to expanding their offerings a bit to match the wants of a customer base that will likely quite different than that of their typically suburban locations. 

[John T Roberts]

Dismuke, do you know of any "urban" Braum's locations for reference?

[Dismuke]

Dismuke, do you know of any "urban" Braum's locations for reference?

 

I don't know of any and rather doubt that any exist. If one did exist, it would most likely be here in the Metroplex. 

 

Because the company gets its milk from its own dairy heard, it limits the the locations it opens to within so many miles of where its farms are located near Tuttle Oklahoma, which is southwest of Oklahoma City.  I forget how many miles that is, but it is based on the distance their delivery trucks can travel to and from within a single day.  That's why none show up on a Google Maps search south of Hillsboro.  Other than D/FW the only urban areas that are within that radius for them are Oklahoma City, Tulsa and Wichita Ks - none of which are quite as "urban" as our area.

So I suspect that it would be an entirely new concept for them.  And, perhaps even if they thought it to be likely profitable, they might not have interest simply because of extra management attention it might require to break from their normal cookie cutter.  And, given the chain's strict geographical limitation, it is not as if it could be done as a testing ground for possible expansion to lots of other urban locations.
 

On the other hand, for reasons I mentioned, it does strike me as being more likely to succeed in a location such as downtown Fort Worth than other burger chains - many of which rely on drive-through traffic which would be missing if it were located in the heart of downtown.  Braums locations have a drive through - but my hunch is the drive through is not as large a percentage of their sales volume as other chains. 

 

Obviously, a key test for them and any other fast food restaurant downtown would be whether there would be enough walk-by traffic to generate the necessary volume.  I don't know the answer to that.  But it occurs to me that some fast food restaurants can be profitable with less volume than others - which is why I suspect one sees Subway locations in small towns and downtowns.  Where Braums would fit relative to other chains in terms of volume necessary to be profitable is something I don't know. 

[Stadtplan]

I was thinking 1200 E Weatherford St would make a good site for a fast food location, perhaps a more traditional layout with parking and drive-thru.

https://maps.app.goo...77Tzx56?g_st=ic

I recall visiting an urban McDonalds in San Antonio near the Riverwalk. I liked the layout but there was special rules and access to bathrooms, the place seemed a bit disorganized. Theres of course the downtown McDs in Dallas, next to the bus station. Not exactly my first choice for a place to stop but have used the drive thru window on occasion without incident.

[John T Roberts]

Nitixope, I agree with you on this.  I have visited both the Downtown San Antonio and Dallas McDonald's locations.