90 replies to this topic

[Austin55]

Among the many announcements last night was a plan to build a 3-4 story structure behind the existing historic buildings along Magnolia on what is currently surface parking. The plan would be for a pedestrian plaza between the new and historic buildings. The new structure would include a 194 space parking garage and office spaces. The project appears to be quite large, which makes sense given the size of the land available to work with.

 

Developers are Dodson Companes (who did nearby 1455 Magnolia project) and Bryant Commercial, VLK are the architect. 

[renamerusk]

Having trouble finding ample surface parking along Magnolia and then located the site in question. This looks to be as much Hemphill as it is Magnolia.  Anything that improve Hemphill is actually a nice thing also.

 

"Tomato or tomahtoe".

[John T Roberts]

Here's a link to the Staff Report for the case going before the Historic & Cultural Landmarks Commission on Monday, May 11.

 

http://fortworthtexa...48fa7e3dfad.pdf

[renamerusk]

Its reassuring that things are continuing to take place.  It is disappointing that the City of Fort Worth has contemplated delaying the CC Expansion.  I think it would inject a great deal of confidence to demonstrate the willingness to soldier on with the Economic Development Plan that was firing on all cylinders prior to the Corvid19 Pandemic.

[Jeriat]

 

 

[rriojas71]

I like it.  I think more businesses in the future need to incorporate a parking structure in this fashion...  hope it comes to fruition

[Doohickie]

It is disappointing that the City of Fort Worth has contemplated delaying the CC Expansion.

 

They are furloughing employees because they don't have enough money.  How do you expect them to pay for a CC expansion???  Going forward with in this environment would be, to use your own words (from another thread) "bloat and misguided adventuring."

 

I really feel that, even if they had the money, they should wait because we don't know what the post-Covid world will look like.  Building for the pre-Covid landscape might end up being a big mistake.  Tailoring the expansion to a new reality would give Fort Worth a leg up on future convention business, even if it delays construction a year or two.

[Jeriat]

 

It is disappointing that the City of Fort Worth has contemplated delaying the CC Expansion.

 

  Tailoring the expansion to a new reality would give Fort Worth a leg up on future convention business, even if it delays construction a year or two.

 

 

...interesting take. 

Are you saying the city may have to take something away or alter their plans?

[Doohickie]

That's the point.  We don't know.

 

Let's say that going forward, everyone needs to be sanitized or screened in some fashion before they enter large indoor spaces.  They could incorporate a screening hall as part of their entry.  Or one theory is that AC systems keep the aerosolized virus aloft too long, making indoor spaces more likely places of infection.  AC systems will no doubt be adapted to prevent this and the new space can be built with the improved systems in mind.  Bathrooms might be redesigned with sanitization in mind.  Perhaps even designing flooring patterns that indicate 6 foot spacing.  Better to design and build them the new portion of the CC this way than to have to retrofit it at great expense later.

 

I can think of several similar examples.

[renamerusk]

Who isn't disappointed?  What is the context of my quote?

 

If you want to rattle me, or rather to blow me away,  you need to have a reason followed by a more impactful and substantive point.  I am flattered when someone else beats me to saying something or when I have to admit to  wishing to had said it myself. In the past you have blown me away, but this time might be a miss.

 

It is universally credited that the boom in hotel construction in Fort Worth is a result developers anticipating that the CC will be expanded at a particularly time, but to issue a statement that includes the word "indefinitely" provides them with nothing to go by.  Many of the airlines, optimistically or not, have stated that they expect business travel to rebound in 2023. We will see.  Fort Worth could say something like the CC expansion plans will resume 2023.  This is a date that provides some clarity to the developers.

 

If I am correct, the quote that you cited and that are in my own words refers to some in the private sector, I think specifically referring to the airlines who were bloated and have demonstrated that the did not have "$400 to ride out an emergency". There are numerous examples coming to the fore, N-M being the latest purportedly finding itself heavily leveraged.

 

Highlighting that some projects, like the Hemphill/Magnolia mixed-used one, is an optimistic and encouraging sign. It looks like the local private sector will actually lead or provide us with some much needed inspiration.

 

I don't think that waiting is a bad idea.  I have set a personal wait time for myself as mid-June at the least and until my doctors are seeing us again in their clinics.  To their credit, the professional medical sector has provided me with a definite time for which I can go by.  The pharmaceutical sector has provided us with a time line 12-15 months before a vaccine,perhaps with a major breakthrough, it can be sooner.  At least we have something to go by.

 

While I agree with you that there will be necessary changes and modifications, what we are lacking from leadership locally and nationally is clarity and a plan for when and how we return. 

[Doohickie]

Fort Worth could say something like the CC expansion plans will resume 2023.  This is a date that provides some clarity to the developers.

They could, but the point is, they don't know, so what good is it to post a date with no confidence?  Government projects adhere to different practices than private ones.  If the city really doesn't know when the economy will rebound, then the city doesn't know when the CC expansion will happen.  Fixing a date that the really don't have the information to fix would be irresponsible.

 

On a more personal note, I want to apologize...it seems like I've been criticizing your posts in particular lately.  I noted on a totally different forum that this situation is getting to me.  I'm quicker to lose my temper, quicker to get frustrated.  I'm aware of that now, so I'm going to try to take that into account while posting, and stick to discussing the issues and not messengers.

 

[renamerusk]

I accept your apology.  And even though it is not necessary, it demonstrates courage and comradery; and will be long remembered. Thank you for being a steady, prolific contributor to the FWF.  Speaking for myself, your contributions are always welcomed and I will always read them ASAP.

[Dylan]

Back to the topic of this proposed development...

 

The larger of the two buildings (the one along Hemphill) looks great! The garage doesn't look like a garage, and there's some office space.

 

Unfortunately, the smaller of the two buildings (the one at Magnolia & Travis) doesn't look so great. It's set back from Magnolia and hides behind a fence.

 

Edit: Click the link in post #3, and look for page 31.

Edited by Dylan, 09 May 2020 - 01:00 AM.

[Doohickie]

I don't see a building on Magnolia.  I see the old Southside Bank building, not anything new.  What am I missing here?

 

EDIT:  What I'm missing is that the old Southside Bank building is part of the development.

[Dylan]

The building I'm referring to is on page 31 of the link John Roberts posted. Jeriat didn't post the rendering of it on here. I apologize for not clarifying that.

[Doohickie]

It's in the same style as the rest of the new construction.  Not sure what the objection is.

[renamerusk]

Yes, the style is close or identical. There isn't any changes to the existing structures facing either Magnolia or Hemphill.  The new structure is more or less an annex with an open air plaza connecting the existing with the new.

[panthercity]

This is an exciting project, heres to hoping it works out and stays true to the renderings!

[Dylan]

My objection to the design of the smaller Magnolia Avenue building is that it's set back from the sidewalk by several feet, and there is an ugly fence separating it from the sidewalk.

 

Basically, the design of the smaller Magnolia Avenue building is hostile to pedestrians.

[John T Roberts]

Dylan, I believe that the position of the new building on Magnolia has to do with following the Secretary of Interior's Standards for Rehabilitation of Historic Structures.  The building is locally designated as a City of Fort Worth Historic & Cultural Landmark.  If you look at the site plan, you can see that the building is offset from the front and the back walls of the existing historic building on Magnolia.  The standards suggest that an addition should be offset from the historic building in some form or fashion, and the position of the new retail building does that.  The canopy that comes out from the front goes back to the building line and gives an impression of a facade alignment.  This is the same reasoning for creating a pedestrian mall between the back of the historic building and the new construction.  This separates the new construction from the historic.  One other thing to consider is that the fence appears to be of an historic character.  If the fence is indeed historic, then it should remain in place.  This is an interesting project in that part of it is on an individually designated historic landmark and the other part is not designated.  Because of this, the project is required to be treated as an addition to a historic structure and the entire property is designated.  The site also sits next to the boundary of the National Register and Locally Designated Fairmount Historic District.

[Austin55]

I can't help but wonder if the fence was just overlooked when the rendering was made. It should not be deemed historic IMO. 

[renamerusk]

Page 31?

[rriojas71]

Page 31?

Unfortunately, you will have to count them rename.... I didn't see page 31 either

[John T Roberts]

Here is page 31, so everyone will not have to fumble through the PDF file to find it. 

[John T Roberts]

The case was approved by the Historic & Cultural Landmarks Commission yesterday.  Below is a link to the Fort Worth Magazine Article by Samantha Calimbahin.

 

https://fwtx.com/new...ynz_tF_MYqTkTHw

[renamerusk]

Here is page 31, so everyone will not have to fumble through the PDF file to find it. 

 

 So this is setback that is creating a bit of a problem?  I think it is beautifully done and with the HCLC guidelines having to be followed, this is not at all objectionable to me.
 

[renamerusk]

Some further musing.  This really elevates the Magnolia Venue; and along with the FWSY Venue, the two are bringing game to Sundance for local nightlife.  I already love the atmosphere of the open air promenade.

[Fort Worthology]

Keeping the fence there is...awkward. I don't mind the building setback but I'd like to see the fence and its associated concrete ledge get removed.

 

It's not like a huge thing but it just feels a little off to me.

[renamerusk]

I see the fence as a safety instrument.  It is conceivable that some one could make a mistake misjudging the grade and seriously hurt their self.  If not a fence, then a rail would be necessary.

[John T Roberts]

Building codes do require some sort of protection from falling off when there is a significant change in grade.  Some kind of barrier would be required.

[renamerusk]

Building codes do require some sort of protection from falling off when there is a significant change in grade.  Some kind of barrier would be required.

And when you point out that there is a significant change in grade, a couple of things come to mind about this issue:

 

 1 - have the existing buildings on the block sank over time?;

 

 2 - is there a grade between Magnolia and Travis which is why the new construction is elevated in relationship to the existing buildings? If so, can this be the explanation for the setback and the drop off?

 

I would think that the new construction would be in accordance with the plaza and not with Magnolia Avenue.

[John T Roberts]

Rename, I'm addressing your concerns about the site and the project below:

 

1.  I don't think the existing buildings have sunk over time.

 

2.  There is a grade change between Hemphill and Travis.  I think this is part of the explanation for the design.  From Google Street View, it appears that the finish floor inside the buildings step down with the grade, but still force a landing on the sidewalk in places.  New codes would now force the landing to be behind the property line.  Doing this also allows the design to follow the Secretary of Interior's Standards for Historic Buildings by differentiating the addition and the historic building by an offset in the facade.  Also, from what I can tell from the drawings provided, raising the floor of the building to the higher elevation on the plaza does allow the new building to relate to it, rather than directly to Magnolia. 

[renamerusk]

I think the trick will be blending the new plaza with the rear elevations of existing buildings.

[John T Roberts]

Also, heading south on Travis from Magnolia, you are going up hill.  The lowest point of the site is at the northwest corner, which would put you at Travis & Magnolia.  The highest point of the site is on Hemphill Street on the north boundary of Paul's Donuts property. 

[renamerusk]

Well explains the ledge.  The new construction and accompanying plaza will be higher than the existing structures along Magnolia.  The setback and the height of the retaining wall is level with the new construction; not the existing buildings.  All of this makes sense and is not nearly as awkward after further analysis.

[rriojas71]

The fence is a bit awkward but I know the fence and actually really like it...  I just hope that the path between the fence and the building leads to a cool seating area

[renamerusk]

What? Has the fence always been there and predates the new concept?

[John T Roberts]

I'm going to have to go over there to determine if the fence is historic, or not. If it is, then that explains why it was left in place.

[Doohickie]

The fence is a bit awkward but I know the fence and actually really like it...  I just hope that the path between the fence and the building leads to a cool seating area

That was my thought:  It would be an ideal spot for a restaurant patio.

[renamerusk]

Looking closer at the conceptual design, there is a "Coca Cola" machine clearly present; so that the space is likely targeted for dining.  Depending upon the layout, an eatery could designate area immediately to the east as a outdoor space between the existing building and the new building and might be the ideal location for a patio. 

 

I would also expect that there will be a some table on the newly created plaza. 

 

I would think that the better use of the front facing Magnolia will be as an entrance to the diner and the space in front as a conduit to the outdoor patio; it is much better to avoid having tables and people seated in this space.

[John T Roberts]

I was planning to look at the fence over the weekend, but I didn't take a look.  I apologize.  I will try to get by there this week.

[renamerusk]

 

Agreed that it is concerning when Fairmount or other residential NHs such as Fairmount seek to effectively expand the density limitations to areas outside of their NH boundaries.  The Magnolia Hotel is an example.  I couldn't believe there was NH opposition over that based on density.  It is something like a 4-5 story building and IMO fit perfectly into the scale of Magnolia Ave.

 

The 701 Magnolia project is the latest to cause a riff.

 

Who is riffing?

 

I think it is time to take to Twitter or IG.

[John T Roberts]

The fence that is on the property today is not historic.  It is definitely new, and has a fence manufacturer label on it.  However, the fence has a historic appearance, so I'm guessing that it is a replacement fence that matched the original that was located on the site.

[Dylan]

Dylan, I believe that the position of the new building on Magnolia has to do with following the Secretary of Interior's Standards for Rehabilitation of Historic Structures.  The building is locally designated as a City of Fort Worth Historic & Cultural Landmark.  If you look at the site plan, you can see that the building is offset from the front and the back walls of the existing historic building on Magnolia.  The standards suggest that an addition should be offset from the historic building in some form or fashion, and the position of the new retail building does that.  The canopy that comes out from the front goes back to the building line and gives an impression of a facade alignment.  This is the same reasoning for creating a pedestrian mall between the back of the historic building and the new construction.  This separates the new construction from the historic.  One other thing to consider is that the fence appears to be of an historic character.  If the fence is indeed historic, then it should remain in place.  This is an interesting project in that part of it is on an individually designated historic landmark and the other part is not designated.  Because of this, the project is required to be treated as an addition to a historic structure and the entire property is designated.  The site also sits next to the boundary of the National Register and Locally Designated Fairmount Historic District.

 

Personally, I think it's a bit ridiculous that a fence can have historic building protections.

 

In regards to new building setbacks, Sundance Square didn't do that when they built the Commerce Building adjacent to the historic Land Title Building.

 

After mulling over the design a while, I still don't like 701 W. Magnolia's setback.

[renamerusk]

Its really hard to understand why you object so.

[John T Roberts]

Dylan, there are several ways that a new building can attach to an existing historic building.  The setback on the common facades is one, another is what they call the hyphen.  That's where you set back for a way, then go back to the original building line.  The preferable material for the setback portion of a hyphen is something that is compatible, but contrasts.  The Commerce Building used the hypen on the street facade, and actually set the building back on the plaza facade.  The last bay of the Commerce Building on the north at the plaza facade jumps back out to align with the back wall of the Land Title Block, which was the former alley right-of-way.  I was going to post pictures, but I think the best way to view this is on the 3D View of Google Maps.

[renamerusk]

I feel like the "setback" adds texture along the street.

[rriojas71]

Yeah I don't think I even noticed the fence at all until you mentioned it Dylan.  Even after you mentioned it I saw it as a non-issue.  I guess it is just a preference thing.

[FTWIK]

Site plan for the project. 

[rriojas71]

I have a good friend who lives in Fairmount and he said that the Neighborhood Assoc is planning on a hard push to stop this project in it's tracks.  That is not his viewpoint as he thinks it would be good to have additional parking to remove cars from the streets but he said most of the people who are against the project are mainly a lot of the new residents who just moved into the area.

 

Kind of ironic that they are pushing against it when the reason they most likely moved to the area to begin with was because of all the new projects that have been added.  I swear I just don't understand how people think and why they always want to push back against development.  Especially something that is going to cover up a parking lot... and a terrible uneven parking lot at that