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Fort Worth-Dallas sports rivalry?


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#1 johnfwd

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 07:58 AM

We've discussed here off and on about Fort Worth needing a major sports franchise and the answer has usually been that the big-wigs who decide these things think of Dallas-Fort Worth as one market and so, because Dallas has the franchises, that's all there is to say about it.  Of course geographic proximity didn't stop the NFL from granting franchises to San Francisco and Oakland (12 miles apart). 

 

But I think the big-wigs have lost sight of the pecuniary prospects of creating a Dallas-Fort Worth sports rivalry.  And I'm not talking about TCU versus SMU.  Think on this, Jerry Jones.  If the NFL granted Fort Worth a franchise and our team eventually became formidable it could become a glorious, and profitable, rivalry with the Dallas Cowboys.

 

 

 

 

 

 



#2 roverone

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 09:43 AM

I think that in addition to the tremendous problem with funding this, the biggest problem is the lack of separate media markets -- that lack of separate representation is one of the origin stories / root causes of these identity problems in the first place.  I'm not certain how that is worked out with San Francisco and Oakland.

 

But it is a fascinating thought exercise to imagine the possible benefits of a way to create and focus a strong rivalry between the cities so they each generate separate membership, distinction, and loyalty.  The fact that there is a continuum of metroplex cities between with no large body of water or mountain or even gap, complicates this -- who would the in between residents side with?



#3 Austin55

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:43 AM

  Of course geographic proximity didn't stop the NFL from granting franchises to San Francisco and Oakland (12 miles apart). 

 

DFW is a bigger metro than San Francisco, which has also has 2 MLB teams.

 

Tarrant County on it's own is larger than the Metros of several cities with pro teams, such as Milwaukee, Jacksonville, Memphis, OKC, New Orleans, Buffalo, SLC, and Raleigh.

 

Tarrant, Wise, Parker, Johnson, Hood and 1/2 Denton county added up is 2.6 million, larger than the metros of Nashville, Austin, San Jose, Indianapolis, Columbus, Las Vegas, Kansas City, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Orlando, Sacramento, San Antonio, Pittsburgh, Portland, Charlotte and Denver.



#4 renamerusk

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 01:31 PM

We've discussed here off and on about Fort Worth needing a major sports franchise....

 

  I don't believe that Fort Worth is in need of a major professional franchise.  What need does it resolve?

 

 Professional sport teams, which are actually private owned businesses, do not add to the pool but simply shift enormous amounts of money into their bank accounts at the expense of those monies being distributed into the pockets of small family-owned businesses.

 

One of the most egregious example of the professional owners shifting money for its own enrichment at the expense of others is when a place like AT&T Stadium & the Cowboys opens free admission to the public doing a big game, exception being parking, so that those who might have gone instead out to a local establishment to spend money buying food and beverages spend that the money in a way that goes into the pocket of the owner of the team.

 

Professional sports leagues are cartels which can not be joined by the ordinary fan.  If the teams like the Cowboys were publicly traded so that the public could invest and receive dividends beyond the "thrill" of a meaningless championship, then I might think that Fort Worth and its residents  might benefit having a team to invest in and that might be consider a need.  But for now, there is no actual need for a team......

 

[except for the feel good feelings that comes with a win; and conversely the bad feelings that comes with a loss for which I thankfully grew out of many, many seasons ago.  I guess human nature is what it is, but it is so many other things that a city like Fort Worth needs beyond a football team.]....[One last thought, SMU is not TCU's rival; I would like that the games between TCU and SMU end, just like Baylor, Texas, Tech and the other Texas teams have done.  TCU has one meaningful rival and that is with Baylor; and that is why losing to Baylor anytime is big let down for me; and that is why Baylor feel the same way towards TCU.]

 

I have place a set of brackets around the remarks I think to be too harsh.  They should not have been posted. I apologize for the judgmental rhetoric.  renamerusk.



#5 Dylan

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:06 PM

Fort Worth already has two sports teams if you count Arlington as a Fort Worth suburb. The problem is, they're not named Fort Worth since Arlington is also a Dallas suburb.

 

If Fort Worth had a sports team named after it, it would significantly help in getting people to recognize Fort Worth as a metro anchor.

 

Unfortunately, it's unlikely to ever happen. You'd have to rename a team that's already in the Fort Worth area, and/or attract a team that would compete with another team in the same TV market.


-Dylan


#6 Big Frog II

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 12:57 PM

It would be nice, but I don't see it happening anytime in the next 20 years.  I really don't think we want to spend money building a rich person their very own stadium.  If it happens it probably would me a soccer team.  One thing you do need to have a successful pro franchise is a good corporate base.  Do we have enough?



#7 renamerusk

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 02:51 PM

It would be nice, but I don't see it happening anytime in the next 20 years.

 

(1).   I really don't think we want to spend money building a rich person their very own stadium. ...

 

(2).   If it happens it probably would me a soccer team....

 

(3).  One thing you do need to have a successful pro franchise is a good corporate base.  Do we have enough?

 

(1). I agree.  I would certainly not support the spending of public money to build a rich person a stadium that would be used for the singular purpose of that sport.

 

(2). Again, I agree.  A soccer team with a local Fort Worth fan base is one that I could fully get behind.  I have suggested that Ridgmar Mall be repurposed for a soccer stadium and other X-gen sports venues (bike, swimming, tennis, rock climbing, etc.)  I would also want Ridgmar to be available to collegiate and prep school contests.

 

(3). How about BNSF, Lockheed Martin, AZZ?  There is a stellar corporate home base.



#8 rriojas71

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 08:26 PM

Of course geographic proximity didn't stop the NFL from granting franchises to San Francisco and Oakland (12 miles apart).

 

DFW is a bigger metro than San Francisco, which has also has 2 MLB teams.
 
Tarrant County on it's own is larger than the Metros of several cities with pro teams, such as Milwaukee, Jacksonville, Memphis, OKC, New Orleans, Buffalo, SLC, and Raleigh.
 
Tarrant, Wise, Parker, Johnson, Hood and 1/2 Denton county added up is 2.6 million, larger than the metros of Nashville, Austin, San Jose, Indianapolis, Columbus, Las Vegas, Kansas City, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Orlando, Sacramento, San Antonio, Pittsburgh, Portland, Charlotte and Denver.

Actually Austin, saying DFW is bigger is a bit deceiving. Most of the times they don’t count the San Jose/South Bay area in with SF-Oakland but I lived there and the South Bay always felt like a part of the Bay Area as a whole. People in SF were Sharks fans and Southbay residents follow the Warriors, Niners and Giants... small % follow the A’s, but put together they are slightly bigger than DFW but much more dense.

#9 johnfwd

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 02:47 PM

Fort Worth already has two sports teams if you count Arlington as a Fort Worth suburb. The problem is, they're not named Fort Worth since Arlington is also a Dallas suburb.

 

If Fort Worth had a sports team named after it, it would significantly help in getting people to recognize Fort Worth as a metro anchor.

 

Unfortunately, it's unlikely to ever happen. You'd have to rename a team that's already in the Fort Worth area, and/or attract a team that would compete with another team in the same TV market.

You make a very good point in your second sentence.  I think a lot of us miss the point about a city's identify and the role the national media play, particularly as to sporting events.  Take Dallas, for instance.  I truly believe that, prior to 1963, Dallas was largely viewed across the country as just some city in North Central Texas.  Before that time, too, I doubt if many Americans on the east and west coasts cared much of anything about Texas, except their perception of a land of cowboys, Indians, and rich oil millionaires.

 

Then came two events that put Dallas in the spotlight.  The first, and tragic event, was the Kennedy assassination.  But what lingered longer in the national public eye was the emergence and growing popularity of the Dallas Cowboys football team.  And Dallas's smart marketing of the Cowboys as "America's team" augmented the public perception of Dallas as the home of the Super Bowl-winning Cowboys.

 

Incidentally, most don't know this, but the regional Associated Press is located in Dallas.  So any big news event in our region that is covered by AP gets the location name "Dallas."  It also helps to have all the major TV networks' affiliates identifying themselves as being in Dallas.  Because Dallas has the major sports franchises that are covered nationally it affects just about everything else regarding that city's identity.  Have you ever heard of any news writer or announcer say "Dallas, Texas?"  No, they just say "Dallas."  Like they would say New York or Chicago.  But they say "Fort Worth, Texas."  What about San Francisco, San Diego, Oakland, Boston, New Orleans, on and on?  You never hear the name of the state, like San Diego, California, or Boston, Massachusetts, or New Orleans, Louisiana.  Yes, New Orleans is itself historically unique.  But Oakland or Green Bay have no historical significance.  The only factor that makes Oakland and Green Bay worth noting nationwide is professional football.  And Oakland fans were certainly angry when their pro football franchise left them.

 

In my opinion, national public perception, augmented by the national news media, creates a city's identify.  But, back to the sports rivalry idea, I believe our city would profit immensely, money-wise and in terms of national identify, if we have a major sports team to rival Dallas's.



#10 elpingüino

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Posted 07 May 2022 - 02:41 PM

Think on this, Jerry Jones.  If the NFL granted Fort Worth a franchise and our team eventually became formidable it could become a glorious, and profitable, rivalry with the Dallas Cowboys.
 


Dallas Mayor Johnson wants a 2nd NFL team. But Jerry Jones, Cowboys have the say-so

#11 steave

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Posted 07 May 2022 - 04:00 PM

I hope that Frisco never steals any DFW pro sports team aside from the MLS team it already has. That area is just too far from everything else.



#12 JBB

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Posted 07 May 2022 - 04:17 PM

This is just a headline grab.  Eric Johnson is smart enough to know this will never happen.



#13 Jeriat

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Posted 07 May 2022 - 08:07 PM

 

Think on this, Jerry Jones.  If the NFL granted Fort Worth a franchise and our team eventually became formidable it could become a glorious, and profitable, rivalry with the Dallas Cowboys.
 


Dallas Mayor Johnson wants a 2nd NFL team. But Jerry Jones, Cowboys have the say-so

 

Yeah, no...

If any other Texas city gets an expansion team, it's going to be San Antonio... with Austin as a gradually closer and closer 2nd. 


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