154 replies to this topic

[FunkyTownTay]

Since we all like to look at things how they were before, I highlighted the center on some older picture.  I'm not exactly sure how to attribute these, but I'd expect that they came from the collection at UTA.  I put them up a little bigger so you can make out the details:

 

I used Google's 3d feature and got roughly the same angle as this picture. Quite a difference from then to now!

https://www.google.c...t/data=!3m1!1e3

[John T Roberts]

You did a good job in capturing the comparison.

[txbornviking]

 

Since we all like to look at things how they were before, I highlighted the center on some older picture.  I'm not exactly sure how to attribute these, but I'd expect that they came from the collection at UTA.  I put them up a little bigger so you can make out the details:

 

I used Google's 3d feature and got roughly the same angle as this picture. Quite a difference from then to now!

https://www.google.c...t/data=!3m1!1e3

 

 

Wow. Dizzying to think about.

[txbornviking]

Star-T write up on this today,

https://www.star-tel...e216595180.html

[John T Roberts]

I guess I'm becoming a curmudgeon.  I'm beginning to not like some of the upcoming changes to my general vicinity. 

[JBB]

I don't have as much a dog in this hunt as you, but I just hate to see a unique neighborhood shopping center that's retained so much of its original character go by the wayside.

[Austin55]

This seems like a case where the developer needs to step back and listen to the residents.

[renamerusk]

Question/Suggestion:

 

 Q. Is this the developer associated in any way with the now demolished Westchester Tower?

 

 S.  If so,  the former site of the Westchester Tower is the better location for this ALC.

[Doohickie]

Looking at Westcliff Center as a lost cause (premature maybe), but the major businesses could possibly stay in the area if they desired:

 

Cafe Bella --> The recently closed RJ Gators

Jabo's Hardware --> Is there space available in the industrial area bounded by McCart-Granbury-Seminary (possibly even Seminary West Shopping Center or the building just west of it)?

Albertsons --> Nothing jumps to mind 

 

EDIT:  A thought:  It wouldn't have the same cachet as Westcliff Center, but maybe some of the businesses could move into Southcliff Center (TOD, anyone?) or possibly even where the McCart Thrift is.  If I owned/managed Southcliff Center, I'd be courting the leaseholders from Westcliff right now and remodel/redevelop ahead of the TEX Rail station's arrival.  Bring a grocery store back to Wedgwood!  And a Hardware Store!

[pelligrini]

Question/Suggestion:

 

 Q. Is this the developer associated in any way with the now demolished Westchester Tower?

 

 S.  If so,  the former site of the Westchester Tower is the better location for this ALC.

 

A. From the Star Telegram article that txbornviking linked to: "One of the buyers of the property, Jeff Bryant, declined to talk about the project when contacted by the Star-Telegram.

Bryant was one of the owners of WGH Heritage, which owned Westchester Plaza."

[Doohickie]

Here's a link to the proposed site plan for Westcliff Shopping Center.  It involves a total demolition of the shopping center, then building a new grocery store on the SE corner, the senior living facility (combination of independent and assisted living) on the north half of the parcel, and a couple of small restaurant/retail buildings on the SW corner.  Apparently the current zoning would allow assisted living but not independent living. 

 

The neighbors are not happy.

 

[txbornviking]

Here's a link to the proposed site plan for Westcliff Shopping Center.  It involves a total demolition of the shopping center, then building a new grocery store on the SE corner, the senior living facility (combination of independent and assisted living) on the north half of the parcel, and a couple of small restaurant/retail buildings on the SW corner.  Apparently the current zoning would allow assisted living but not independent living. 

 

The neighbors are not happy.

 

 

The link won't open for me. Anyone else having the same trouble?

[Austin55]

You won't be able to see the link unless you are in the neighborhood on the website.

[Doohickie]

Sorry, I thought it was a link to the fortworthtexas.gov page.  Can you see the screenshot at least?

[Papaw]

It worked for me off your email notice but then again i am on that neighborhood.

[Doohickie]

John Roberts- Over on Nextdoor the suggestion was made to declare the Westcliff Center a historical landmark.  I know you're quite familiar with the various historical designations.  What would the process entail?  (I think they are looking at this as an easy fix without realizing what they're getting into and looking for some information about the process.)

[JBB]

I'm not John, but I believe the quickest way is for the owner to request the designation (and I honestly don't know if it's possible at all without the owner being in agreement).  I doubt that happens in this case and it doesn't necessarily provide enough protection to keep the same fate from happening.

[Doohickie]

Thanks.  That's kind of where I was going on Nextdoor but wanted to make sure I had my facts straight.

[John T Roberts]

I was going to answer this last night, but somehow, I forgot.  First of all, let's take about designation.  Only the property owner, the Landmarks Commission, the City Council, or the City Manager may initiate the designation process.  If someone other than the property owner initiates designation, and the property owner objects, it will usually die at the first public hearing.  It may even die before that because the Preservation Officer will probably talk to the property owner, and if enough objection is made, it might not even be put on Landmark's agenda. 

 

We saw this with the Stockyards Local Historic District.  At one point, the Mayor said the city would not create a local historic district there.  There was so much citizen protest that the Mayor finally gave in and provided a district.  The developers of the Stockyards in various meetings stated they did not want to be included in the district.  All of their property that was not already locally designated was removed from the boundaries.  Others on the west side of N. Main asked to be removed, and they were, provided they were on the edge.  Other property owners wanted out, but were left in, only if removal of their property made the district discontinuous, or it created a hole in the district. In my opinion, this Council Initiated Historic District was the smallest possible historic district that would work.

 

The short answer is that unless the property owner of Westcliff Shopping Center wanted designation, the chances of getting it approved would be extremely slim.  There is nothing against "the public" from nominating a property, and someone could do the historical research and fill out the paperwork, but if the property owner objected in a meeting, or even before a meeting occurred, that nomination would probably be filed away and would be forgotten.  It certainly wouldn't proceed.  The governing bodies, could proceed with the designation, but with a big objection from the property owner, they probably would not.

[rriojas71]

John Roberts- Over on Nextdoor the suggestion was made to declare the Westcliff Center a historical landmark.  I know you're quite familiar with the various historical designations.  What would the process entail?  (I think they are looking at this as an easy fix without realizing what they're getting into and looking for some information about the process.)

Although I understand the sentiment for this shopping center and it being encapsulated in a neighborhood makes it unique, IMO I feel that wanting a historical designation is a bit over the top. Im not sure what makes it worth saving. At the end of the day is in just an old strip mall.

[Austin55]

 

John Roberts- Over on Nextdoor the suggestion was made to declare the Westcliff Center a historical landmark.  I know you're quite familiar with the various historical designations.  What would the process entail?  (I think they are looking at this as an easy fix without realizing what they're getting into and looking for some information about the process.)

Although I understand the sentiment for this shopping center and it being encapsulated in a neighborhood makes it unique, IMO I feel that wanting a historical designation is a bit over the top. Im not sure what makes it worth saving. At the end of the day is in just an old strip mall.

 

 

Reminds me of San Francisco's ongoing laundromat situation - https://sf.curbed.co...-mission-review

[Doohickie]

 

John Roberts- Over on Nextdoor the suggestion was made to declare the Westcliff Center a historical landmark.  I know you're quite familiar with the various historical designations.  What would the process entail?  (I think they are looking at this as an easy fix without realizing what they're getting into and looking for some information about the process.)

Although I understand the sentiment for this shopping center and it being encapsulated in a neighborhood makes it unique, IMO I feel that wanting a historical designation is a bit over the top. Im not sure what makes it worth saving. At the end of the day is in just an old strip mall.

 

 

I agree and I don't.  Granted, there is nothing architecturally significant enough to warrant a historic designation.  I'm not sure the neighbors really care too much about getting it designated.  It was a simple case of brainstorming possible ways to keep the shopping center intact largely as is.  I asked about the process because I knew it wasn't realistic and wanted to keep people from putting their hope into something that is unrealistic.

 

It does make that neighborhood unique.  You can look through the older neighborhoods in the city and see that many of them had a defined neighborhood center.  Westcliff Center may be the apex of that- older neighborhoods had small grocers like the example on the SW corner of Greene and Devitt, or possibly a few commercial buildings in the middle of the neighborhood like the old Piggly Wiggly in Fairmount that's an antique hardware place now.  Another such center is at Shaw and Adams.

 

Southcliff Center (where Bicycles Inc. is) is a larger shopping center and not buried in the neighborhood.  It's an early example of a modern shopping center.

 

But in that part of town anyway, the only large-ish shopping center in the middle of a residential area that I know of is Westcliff Center.  It is more than just a neighborhood grocer, but not quite a modern shopping center in that it's not on a major thoroughfare.  It's buried in the heart of Westcliff and is a big part of what gives that neighborhood a sense of place.

 

South Hills had something similar, but smaller.  Now it's the Hill School and I think South Hills doesn't have as strong of a sense of place as Westcliff does because it no longer has a shopping center.  So I totally get why Westcliff wants to keep their shopping center as it currently exists.

[John T Roberts]

My firm had done some of the renovations at Westcliff for the previous owner.  We did not radically alter anything in those buildings.  However, I also wondered if it would even meet the criteria for designation.  First of all the center was built in phases.  I do feel that all of the phases are over 50 years old, so that probably isn't an issue.  The buildings have been altered from their original appearance.  I'm not sure whether those alterations, upon their removal, would have destroyed the architectural character of the buildings.  The current owners have now repainted the brick, and the appearance has changed. 

 

I have posted the Criteria for Designation in other threads, but there have been changes to the Preservation Ordinance recently and the criteria have been changed.  I will post the new criteria here and you all can evaluate whether Westcliff Shopping Center meets at least 2 of the criteria in order to be eligible for designation.

 

A. Significance

1.     Is distinctive in character, interest or value, and exemplifies the cultural, economic, social, ethnic or historical heritage of the City of Fort Worth, State of Texas or the United States.
2.     Is an important example of a particular architectural type or specimen or embodies elements of architectural design, detail, material or craftsmanship that represent a significant architectural innovation in Fort Worth.
3.     Has been identified as the work of an important architect or master builder whose individual work has contributed to the development of Fort Worth.
4.     Has been identified with a person or persons who significantly contributed to the culture and development of the City of Fort Worth, State of Texas or the United States.
5.     Bears a significant relationship to other distinctive buildings, structures, sites, objects or areas, either as an important collection of properties of architectural style, or craftsmanship with few intrusions, or by contributing to the overall character of the area according to a plan based on architectural, historic or cultural motif.
6.     Possesses significant archeological value, which has produced or is likely to produce data affecting theories of historic or prehistoric interest.
7.     Is the site of a significant historic event.
8.     Is designated as a Recorded Texas Historic Landmark, State Antiquities Landmark or an American Civil Engineering Landmark, or is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

B. Integrity

 

    A property’s ability to convey its significance, taking into consideration the following seven factors: location, design, setting, material, workmanship, feeling and association, as set forth in National Register of Historic Places’ Seven Aspects of Integrity.

 

If you want to dig deeper, you can go to the City's website and to the National Trust for Historic Preservation's website.

[Doohickie]

When someone first brought it up on Nextdoor, I offered that there is a difference between sentimental value and historical significance.  The criteria agree.

[Doohickie]

From Nextdoor (with permission of Loren Baxter):
 

District 3 Representative and Developer Update 2018-09-14 - Westcliff Shopping Center
Meeting Location: City Hall

The meeting was requested and led by the District 3 Council Office.

Panteras Development Partners (Alex Bryant, Jeff Bryant, and Jake Proctor) met with Brian Byrd’s District 3 office to update the council office on where Panteras is in the process. District Director Michael Crain was present.

Four neighborhoods were represented: Loren Baxter from Westcliff, Marc Meadows from Westcliff West, Alan Teichelman from Foster Park and Martha Jones from Bluebonnet Hills. Ann Zadeh, District 9 representative and Jocelyn Murphy, Fort Worth Planning and Development were also in attendance.

Panteras has identified candidates for architectural and construction work. These companies specialize in high-end construction techniques and finishes that are appropriate for an Assisted Living and Independent Living clientele. The actual numbers for living quarters may be adjusted but plans for 205 Independent Living apartments with 48 assisted living quarters are expected. The facility would be private pay, no medicare/medicaid or subsidized housing is in the scope of the project.

Some concern about expanding to include the west side of Kell Street in the project was expressed. It was quickly determined that this was a mapping error. The only area of interest (and for sale) is the existing shopping center acreage.

Concerns about future student housing were voiced. There are elements of the residential portion of the project that would make student housing unlikely: 1) Licensed by the State of Texas as an Assisted Living/Independent Living facility, 2) The residential structures will be physically connected as one building, 3) The purpose of the facility, electrical systems, HVAC systems, kitchen services, etc. are all unified systems to support an Assisted Living/Independent Living facility.

We also shared many of the concerns that neighbors have voiced through email and social media platforms. One such concern was about the order of construction - what would be first? The first structure to be built would be the grocery store. Getting this essential resource in place is a clear priority (especially in the eyes of Albertson’s corporate).

Albertson’s is the anchor for the current shopping center and would like to continue to operate at the site but will likely be rebranded as a Tom Thumb. The future of Ace is uncertain as are the interim and future options for the other businesses in the center.

Panteras plans to speak with existing businesses in the coming week to determine future interest in leasing.

What is the timeline for the project?
Meet with businesses in the next week.
Meet with Neighborhood Leaders within the next month.
Meet with Neighborhood for Public Presentation of site plans in 6-8 weeks.
Submit Planned Development to Zoning Commission shortly thereafter (perhaps for the November Zoning Commission Hearing).
Hope to have zoning and city council approval by February 2019.

Dr. Byrd encouraged us to understand that given market dynamics, a change is likely coming to the Westcliff Center. If this developer doesn’t move forward there will be another. In order to help shape that change, regardless of the developer or the project, we need to have an understanding about what we value as a community so we can express these principles clearly. Developers have also been encouraged to articulate some core principles.

These principles that stand out to this point (we can add more):
Walkable center that engages the neighborhoods,
Protect single family home valuations, No student housing now or in the future,
Preserve key tenants with their accessible and affordable services…
…What else is important/essential?

In summary: Westcliff Shopping Center is for sale, this is a fact. Current tenant rental rates are effectively not sustainable in the long term. We have seen the center’s businesses change over the years as society and the neighborhood has changed. We, as a community, need to participate in rational conversations in order to help shape a transformation that is profitable for property owners, complementary to our needs and creates space for the businesses we support. The center needs some kind of reinvestment so continued vitality and purpose will be realized for the wider community and for future generations.

The entire process for redevelopment of such a critical piece of property for so many across southwest Fort Worth requires numerous conversations. As neighborhood leaders we are committed to having open conversations and transparency about the process. We all have a voice at the table. We also have a good amount of research, listening, and talking to do before we can vote, as a community, about the best way forward. When we do vote it will be important that we work together, along with our neighborhoods to ensure an organized and unified community is heard at zoning and city council hearings.

Respectfully submitted,
Loren Baxter,
President Westcliff Neighborhood Association

[Doohickie]

I found this interesting: 

 

The future of Ace is uncertain as are the interim and future options for the other businesses in the center.

Panteras plans to speak with existing businesses in the coming week to determine future interest in leasing.

 

So apparently the retail component is still in flux; it would be good if they managed to keep Jabo's Ace Hardware in the center.

[John T Roberts]

I would like to see them stay, or move to a better location.

[Doohickie]

I wonder if they would be interested in Southcliff Center?

[John T Roberts]

Doohickie, I don't know if you were around, but Ambrister's Hardware started in Wedgwood Village at Trail Lake & Wedgmont Cir. N. and then later moved to Southcliff Center for a larger space.  They took up the area between King's Liquor and the old A&P Store (later JoAnn Fabrics), including where Bicycles, Inc. is now located.  They eventually closed the business.

[Doohickie]

Yes, I remember.  It doesn't mean Jabo's wouldn't work there.  Demographics are changing in some of these neighborhoods.  What worked twenty years go won't necessarily work today, and vice versa.

[John T Roberts]

That is true.

[Doohickie]

So according to a post on Nextdoor, Westcliff Shopping Center has been sold again, and the plans to build an assisted living center there squashed.  This comes from "reliable sources," but nothing officially published as of yet.

 

Can anyone verify if the property has been sold again?

[Big Frog II]

So according to a post on Nextdoor, Westcliff Shopping Center has been sold again, and the plans to build an assisted living center there squashed.  This comes from "reliable sources," but nothing officially published as of yet.

 

Can anyone verify if the property has been sold again?

I hope you're right.

[Doohickie]

The owner of the center has hired a new management company and is looking at some minor updates to the property, per reports on Nextdoor. 

 

Several businesses have met with the new management company and they are promising some updating to the center and new tenants.

[elpingüino]

BBQ on the Brazos is considering moving into Westcliff Center, Bud Kennedy reports. https://www.star-tel...e230097424.html

[Doohickie]

Meanwhile, Westcliff Animal Hospital is moving out.  They are moving to the RJ Gators building on Trail Lake.

[WileyClarkson]

John,

it's been a while since our last contact.  I'm still researching projects as time permits.  This topic came up when I was searching on a project for J.E. Foster and Son that my grandfather lists as "Office Building: 1948".   I've known about the Westside Shopping Center project for several years but the office building project is a new project that I just discovered today when looking through some old accounting records.  I'm still discovering projects he did but the count of unknown projects still remains at around 1000.  Do you know where this office building was located?  I discovered about 15 unknown projects in those accounting journal pages.

[John T Roberts]

It's good to hear from you again, and I hope you have a Merry Christmas!

 

As far as I know, Westcliff Shopping Center never had an office building.  It was always retail until the old The Fair/Monnig's store was leased out to Cook Children's Hospital for office space.  The only building that I know that was constructed at the center that no longer remains was the Westcliff Theater.  It sat in the middle of the parking lot on the north side of the center, and it was demolished before I was born in 1957.

 

You mentioned in your last post the "Westside Shopping Center".  Could these have been at different locations?  Also, maybe this office building was planned for Westcliff, but never built?

[terryhill1960]

My dad Bob Hillgartner was the Manager of Davenports. He was good friends with Bob Bolen. The toys back in the 60s were fun and still required you to use your imagination. Davenport was a mini Walmart minus clothing. I was 4-5 yrs old and still remember those fun days.

[John T Roberts]

Welcome to the forum.

[Bill Sievers]

Hi Terryhill1960!  I grew up essentially across the street from the Westcliff Shopping Center on West Biddison in the mid '50's until early 1962.  Yeah, Bob Bolen's place was a REAL toy store alright.  I remember when the variety store opened and I think the name was Devenports rather than Davenports (I could be wrong though).  That opening was either in 1959 or 1960, and I believe it was in the summer of one of those years.

 

Lots of good memories of the Westcliff Shopping Center for me!

[Papaw]

And Remember Ernies delicious hamburgers!

[Bill Sievers]

You bet!  I used to "live" in that place.  Moreland's Drug Store was also a favorite hang-out (soda fountain).  Westcliff was a great shopping center and had almost everything anyone could want.  The only stores missing were a shoe repair place and a real bakery.  You had to got to Blue Bonnet Circle for those!

[Bill Sievers]

Something I thought that the followers of this Westcliff Shopping Center topic might find amusing:  The old Westcliff Hardware store (where I believe where the Dollar General store is today) had a Post Office substation in the back corner of the store.  My mother would often frequent that substation to buy stamps, mail packages, etc.  This was in the time frame from about 1955 through 1961 (We moved to the South Hills in early 1962 and didn't frequent that hardware store much after that).

 

In 1964, we moved to Lexington, Ky., where my parents lived until late summer of 1967 when they moved back to Texas to live in San Antonio.  My mom mentioned to me about 1968, that she had gone into some store there in San Antonio which had a Post Office substation, much like the one in Fort Worth at the Westcliff Hardware store.

 

The clerk there recognized her and said he was the same guy who ran the substation there at the Westcliff HW substation!  Small world indeed! 

[Stadtplan]

https://www.tdlr.tex.../TABS2023012226

 

PROJECT

Project Name: 3584 South Hills Ave Renovation

Project Number: TABS2023012226

Facility Name: 3584 S Hills Ave

Location Address: 3584 S Hills Ave

Fort Worth, TX 76109

Location County: Tarrant

Start Date: 3/31/2023

Completion Date: 9/1/2023

Estimated Cost: $1,800,000

Type of Work: Renovation/Alteration

Type of Funds: This project is privately funded, on private land for private use.

Scope of Work: Interior renovation of existing facility. Includes new finishes, lighting, restrooms and break room, and meeting rooms at 1/2 of space. The remainder of the space will be white box finish out

Square Footage: 38,000 ft 2

 

OWNER

Owner Name: CTO Realty Growth, Inc.

Owner Address:

1140 N. Williamson Blvd Ste. 140

Daytona Beach, Florida 32114

 

DESIGN FIRM

Design Firm Name: Tryba Architects

Design Firm Address:

312 Main Street

Fort Worth, Texas 76102

 

[John T Roberts]

This is the old Fair/Monnig's Department Store.  After Monnig's closed, Cook Children's leased out the building for office space.

[Stadtplan]

Was this tire / automotive center part of the department store?  

 

[Doohickie]

Was this tire / automotive center part of the department store?  

 

I'm going to speculate no, since it looks like it had gas pumps at one time.  It was built as just a straight up gas station, not a dept store tire center... I think.

[Doohickie]

Type of Work: Renovation/Alteration
Type of Funds: This project is privately funded, on private land for private use.
Scope of Work: Interior renovation of existing facility. Includes new finishes, lighting, restrooms and break room, and meeting rooms at 1/2 of space. The remainder of the space will be white box finish out
Square Footage: 38,000 ft

Any indication what the end use will be?

[Stadtplan]

 

Type of Work: Renovation/Alteration
Type of Funds: This project is privately funded, on private land for private use.
Scope of Work: Interior renovation of existing facility. Includes new finishes, lighting, restrooms and break room, and meeting rooms at 1/2 of space. The remainder of the space will be white box finish out
Square Footage: 38,000 ft

Any indication what the end use will be?

 

 

I haven't found any permits for that space yet.  There's some in the strip center east of the tire shop at 3548 South Hills.  A dance academy and a Hotworx.  

 

PDF: https://www.loopnet....0Standalone.pdf

 

https://www.loopnet....th-TX/24920148/

 

https://www.showcase...76109/20458853/