98 replies to this topic

[Thurman52]

The new garage scale is way out of whack for that intersection. Are they going to put a facade on it or just leave the concrete look? Cooks normally does a decent job.

[John T Roberts]

From the renderings I have seen, what you see is what you get.  The garage will feature an exposed concrete façade.

[Dismuke]

That's because of pressure from The Brutalist Society.  Many of its members were admirers of the old imploded building that was previously on the site as it was an early example of the harshness, the brutality, the ugliness and the human-unfriendliness that Brutalism would unleash across the landscape.

Many members were extremely upset that the building was going to be imploded.  But they were on very shaky ground to claim that the building ought to be saved on historical grounds.  You've got to keep in mind that this is the same crowd who mocked and denounced those who were upset at seeing 19th and early 20th century buildings destroyed to make way for Brutalist monstrosities.  They denounced such people as being un-hip, unsophisticated sentimentalists who lived in the past and lacked the "courage" necessary to realize that life sucks, history sucks and human beings suck and to appreciate a "higher" aesthetic that brings such a mindset to a concrete form.  

Therefore, the Brutalist Society is on shaky ground if they come across as sentimental about the old tower or demand it to be preserved on cultural/historical grounds.  To solve that dilemma, they have come up with the Brutalist Doctrine inspired by and based on the old Brezhnev Doctrine from the Soviet Union, land of so much of what they consider to be great architectural masterpieces.   

The Brezhnev Doctrine asserted that once a country is shoved into Communism it must forever be Communist and never be allowed to become anything else.   The Brutalist Doctrine asserts that, once a parcel of land is developed, what is built must never be replaced by anything less harsh, less brutal or less ugly.  Because history sucks you CAN tear a building down. But, because life sucks and human beings suck, if you tear a harsh, ugly building down, you can only replace it with something that embodies that same aesthetic to at least the same degree.

Anyhow, the original plan was to build a really cool looking parking structure on the site.  But, because of protests from the Brutalist Society and the threat that the developers might be denounced as unsophisticated sentimentalists, they caved in and built what we are now seeing.

[Doohickie]

lol wut?

[ramjet]

Doohickie: that's satire, I believe.  A different style from Betty Ann Stout, though.  Anyway, I thought the Brutalist Society had something to do with the threat posed by Popeye.  Personally, I'm glad the Medical Arts Building is dust.  My pediatrician, Dr. Hall, was there.  Along with his nurse, Flo - cat eye glasses on a rope, hair in a bun - yep, not making that up.  Kids got to pick out a small toy after a visit to his office; but, really, looking back, that was no consolation for being vaccinated, or make that impaled, on a large sharp needle in the name of public health.  

[Doohickie]

Yes, I know satire when I see it.

[Fort Worthology]

It is unfortunate that the position of the new building and the parking garage were not swapped.

[Thurman52]

Agreed

[dfwerdoc]

It is unfortunate that the position of the new building and the parking garage were not swapped.

don't they have form based codes ... shouldn't it have been their suggestion. 

[John T Roberts]

This block is one of the few in the area that are not under the form based codes.  I agree with all of you on this.  I'm not defending the project, but the manner in which the project was phased, expedited the construction and the opening date. 

[bryanr]

IF they do this garage like the employee garage on Pennsylvania, it will have some BLUE accent which is inline with the hospital color scheme.  BUT I could not have written a better description of "ugly" than Dismuke!

[dfwerdoc]

somewhere between 30-50 million dollars of ugliness. who was the architect? he should be reported to the aia .... 

 

[Jeriat]

somewhere between 30-50 million dollars of ugliness. who was the architect? he should be reported to the aia .... 

 

Please. 

This city has MUCH worse than that... 

[dfwerdoc]

true enough but it's new money .... and we can always learn from great architectural examples around us. if you're going to blow that kind of money hire someone that cares about designing something meaningful and worthwhile and not just functional to maximize square footage and parking. look how cool this is: 

 

[johnfwd]

As a follow-up to the discussion here about ugly versus worthwhile architecture, where does the proposed Victory Medical Center on South Main rate?  Story about the project in the latest Fort Worth Business Press.

 

http://www.fwbusines...ArticleID=26003

[John T Roberts]

First of all, on the Cook Children's Medical Office building, you are not judging the final product.  The renderings indicate more blue on the building to match the hospital.  The parking garage will be basically colorless.  The second thing I would like to point out is that this thread is starting to go off on a tangent to discuss ugly buildings.  I would suggest a new thread for that discussion.

[Thurman52]

Drove by today, they have a rendering up on the corner looks like they are going to put a "cooks" blue stripe on the corner. Wonder why they did not do like Baylor and put glass along the street

[BlueMound]

I like the decorated 'windows' on the ground floor of the parking garage facing Rosedale. They are decorated with Halloween lights and decorations right now.
Clever way to brighten up a parking garage.

[Fort Worthology]

I still think the entire thing is butt-ugly.  It would look massively better with the building at the most prominent corner.  The garage is just a hideous slab of generic parking garage that they've tried to fancy up with a blue stripe and fake storefront windows jammed with random decorations.  The street trees are in the wrong spot - up against the building instead of separating the street and the sidewalk.  The sidewalk itself is tiny and overwhelmed by the blank concrete walls of the garage.

 

I know, I know...."tell us how you REALLY feel, Kevin."

[Austin55]

No kevin you are absolutely right. I'm baffled someone thought it'd be a good idea to locate that garage there. There must be some unseen reason?

[John T Roberts]

Now since it is finished, I do agree that it is ugly.  In my opinion, I think the two buildings are only a slight improvement over what was there before.  I have not seen it, but I have heard that the Cook Children's Master Plan calls for parking garages to completely ring their campus.  Therefore, almost everything visible from their perimeter streets will be a multi-story parking garage.

 

I'm not defending the construction but the reason they built the office building and parking garage in the manner that they did, it allowed them to occupy the new office building faster.  It was completely framed in steel by the time the Medical Tower was imploded.  They gained several weeks of occupancy by starting the new building on the parking lot first, demolishing the old building next, clearing it away, and then constructing a pre-cast parking garage on the site of the old building last.   

[BlueMound]

Yeah, I'm just not going to get myself too worked up over a parking garage.
It's not the worst thing I've ever seen.

[John T Roberts]

Some of you have commented about the renderings showing a blue stripe on the southwest corner.  For several weeks, I noticed a colorless metal grid running up on the southwest corner of the garage.  Last week, I noticed it had an image of the moon rising on it and what the metal grid is supporting is a grid of LEDs.  In the evenings, the lights are in blue stripes, making it appear solid from a distance. 

[dfwerdoc]

the fake store front windows are something else. it's kitsch

[BlueMound]

The LED grid, that John mentioned earlier, is now flashing different Christmas images at night.
Very nice.

[Fort Worthology]

I guess I'll be the dissenting opinion on the LED sign thing - I think it looks terribly cheesy and tacky.

[John T Roberts]

I think it would have looked better if it was just blue glass like the Municipal Parking Garage.  That way the corner would have some accent color and it wouldn't be cheesy.  Personally, I think the metal grid in the corner is incredibly ugly.

[John T Roberts]

I was by there last night and I don't think the Christmas images look all that bad. 

[Fort Worthology]

To me, they're the electronic equivalent of a berm and hedgerow around a Wal-Mart - I cannot stand the attitude of "we built something completely hideous, so we'll slap on a band-aid or two to try to make you forget about it."  It feels insulting.  The images I've seen rotate through the display look like something that should be on holiday promos for the Hallmark Channel or something equally cheesy.  And they're counting on this huge, over-bright visual slap (and the fake storefront windows crammed full of dollar-store decorations, attempting to distract that they did a terrible job with the garage's street interaction) to try to take attention away from the fact that they built an ugly piece of architecture.

 

I don't mean to go on about it, but I hate feeling like I'm being talked down to, and that sort of thing - sticking something flashy/cheesy on an otherwise terrible piece of architecture to pander to people and try to make it "all better" - is talking down to people in the form of design.  And it's in my 'hood, so I have to see it constantly.

[dfwerdoc]

you speak what i think. I'm tired of gimmick. those night time led lights is putting lipstick on a pig. be authentic ... don't spend 10 million or 20 million or whatever, take up a vital corner and put up an eyesore. im sorely disappointed in cooks architects

[RenaissanceMan]

Agreed with pretty much everything mentioned above. I'll just add that there seems to be something particularly annoying about people thinking that technology (usually for the sake of technology) makes everything better, more exciting, etc. - it's the shiny object that they think will distract or amuse (and it usually fails to do both over the long term, or if it does, it's usually for the wrong reasons). And to be honest it is equally or even more insulting than slapping on a nature bandaid. It's also why I have absolutely no love for the Dallas convention center hotel - shiny object technology for its own sake ends up looking cheap and vulgar in a year's time.

As a brief and only somewhat related aside, I find it funny that every older generation in history is convinced that the younger generation is obsessed with technology. As any new technology becomes prolific, older generations seem to speak about how "young people today just love gadgets" and that by adding some techno-veneer (e.g. massive LED display) it will somehow be better received by younger people and is therefore automatically more "current." I think a lot of people are confusing the use of available technology with being tech-obsessed. I also am often surprised by just how traditionalist in many ways the Millennials are proving to be - particularly in their views on and preferences of architecture and urban design. (OK rant over).

[360texas]

Was driving NORTH on 8th and stopped at Rosedale.  Everyone but me already knew that the medical building is now a parking structure. 

 

BUT I found interesting was there is now a full height lighted panel of the parking structure can be seen many blocks away. 

 

Blues, green, orange patterns are very entertaining !!  Yes ?

[Austin55]

Someone elsewhere mentioned the displays look like screensavers from windows 95. 

[John T Roberts]

In the daytime, or when it is turned off, it's a gray metal mesh, and I think it is terribly ugly.  At night, I can tolerate it.

[dfwerdoc]

its gimmick. sad. it's like a piñata minus something to bash. spend that 500k and put up an extra 20 trees is my thought 

[Fort Worthology]

I cannot stand that light panel - it's gimmicky, tacky, and the images they play on it are either the cheesiest Hallmark Channel-esque pap (around the holidays) or seemingly completely random (and equally cheesy) images of nothing in particular - a purple starburst!  A random brick wall!  Some flowers!  etc.  Austin's quoted description is terribly accurate - it looks like crappy Windows screensavers from 15 years ago.

 

I think I mentioned this on the thread about the development itself, but I find the whole thing flat-out offensive - Cook's built a hideous eyesore of a parking garage and thinks that slapping these cheesetastic display panel on the corner makes everything OK.  It's condescending.  I would rather have that ugly '70s Medical Tower back.

[John T Roberts]

If you go back and look at the renderings of the project, they have a "Cook's" blue accent on the corner.  Since they certainly need some color and interest on that parking garage, I would have much preferred blue glass, blue plastic panels, or some other type of accent.  With that said, I also wonder how much money the hospital would have lost if they simple "flipped" the plan?  That would have meant demolishing and clearing the Medical Tower before starting on the office building.  Overall, this is probably the most disappointing project within the Near South Side in several years. 

[Austin55]

Anyone have any other more creative ideas on what to display on the screen? 

[Jeriat]

Yeah, that light panel would be better for a place like Time Square. Or, if you want to put something like that here in Fort Worth, Panther Island (future) or maybe West 7th. 

A giant LED screen like that shouldn't be in the Medical District. It sticks out like a sore thumb on a dog....

[dfwerdoc]

what's proposed on the opposite corner ... i like it. better than empty lot 

 

[Austin55]

Its nice to have you getting the inside scoop on all these projects ERDOC. That's a pretty sweet building.

[johnfwd]

Cool-looking (or "awesome" as the kids say) building!  I guess if you're going to have restaurant over-kill in Fort Worth you might as well do with style.

[RenaissanceMan]

Count me as a fan. Good example of how it doesn't necessarily have to be traditional architecture to be good urbanism.

[Fort Worthology]

Yeah, that's actually surprisingly great.  Cool little building.  Has a bit of a Pacific Northwest modernism vibe to it.

[Thurman52]

Is this in front of Starbucks? Or east of the cooks building?

[longhornz32]

what's proposed on the opposite corner ... i like it. better than empty lot 

 

Nice building. So who's the architect? Are they local?

[dfwerdoc]

vlk and what's cool is how they're working the grade down towards starbucks. pitty the view this building gets is the monstrosity of the cooks parking garage. 

[Fort Worthology]

So wait, which corner specifically is that? I'm having a hard time picturing it from the rendering.

[John T Roberts]

It's at the corner of Worth St. and 8th Avenue.  It's north of the Starbucks/Firehouse Subs building.