303 replies to this topic

[Electricron]

I'm done with these people and their Mayberry mentality.

Fort Worth always seems to take a two steps forward, step and a half back approach to transportation and development. It's very frustrating to see people with NO vision calling themselves "leaders" of (what is supposed to be) a major city.

Most posters here are urbanists, advocate for higher density residential, and mass transit of all types.

They place blame on others not seeing and building the future they want, Mayberry mentality huh?

 

The fact is that Fort Worth has ZERO true urban residential neighborhoods. Downtown is surrounded by the Trinity River on three compass points, the fourth compass point has the Southside, a fairly large and growing Medical District regenerating into a larger one. It will have fewer and fewer residential units as the Medical District grows.  The Museum District to the west is growing, but it is not a true residential district, and is urbanizing along a few, I repeat, the minimum number of streets. It is located on the opposite side of the Trinity River as downtown. 

 

When you live in suburbia, expect suburban mentalities to rule, even within a large central city. Fort Worth is not Manhattan, Brooklyn, or Queens, it is more akin to New Rochelle, Yonkers, and Long Island suburbs than the heart of New York City. 

 

It is one thing to advocate for more urban style "developments" in Fort Worth, but an entire different thing to expect massive changes to complete urban style "neighborhoods" in Fort Worth. 

 

Developments alone do not make transit systems possible, neighborhoods do. The hardest fact many here should learn is that Fort Worth does not have a single urban residential neighborhood. And if it will make you feel better, the same can be said for every city in Texas, including Austin, Dallas, El Paso, Houston, and San Antonio. 

 

Mass transit requires higher densities than all the cities in Texas have. Austin, Dallas, El Paso, and Houston rail based mass transit are not known for drawing huge passenger numbers. Many on national urban sites laugh at the poor ridership for mass transit in every Texas city. Well, what do you expect with suburban residential neighborhoods?

[rriojas71]

I agree with you Electricon.  The thing that is interesting to me is that many people, even those outside the forum, think that because we have almost a million people that FW should have tons of skyscrapers, a light rail system and an urban layout devoid of parking lots.  However the truth of the matter is that the the central core of the city has maybe 300k-400k people in it and when I say central core I mean the the area within say a 3 mile radius around downtown. As I mentioned here on the forum before city population and density are 2 separate things.  Once a city center gets dense than you can talk about light rail, residential towers and no surface parking lots but FW is far from that point IMO.

 

I lived in Seattle which has about 150K less people than FW but it far denser then FW and the largest metro area in the Pacific NW and it's light rail system is a joke and not used as much as people would think.  I lived in SF with has about less people than FW and is even much denser than Seattle and it has an average light rail system that only serves half of the city.  Most people who live there use buses more than they use BART and MUNI unless you live fairly close to a station.

 

FW, and Texas in general, is a car-centric culture and is extremely spread out.  You are not going to convince people to walk to a station in the summer heat or have them take a non reliable bus to and from their home to a station. People here want the convenience of a car and many believe public transportation is for the poor so they have no intention on spending millions of tax dollars on a light rail system.  I think it would be great to have but let's face it; a line to areas of the city where affluent people live is useless because no one is going to use it.

 

I mean if Austin can't even get a decent light rail system going then what chance do we have.  Let's work on getting more density and self-sufficient neighborhoods into the core before we start talking about light rail.  That is truly what they mean by putting the cart before the horse.  The proof in the pudding is the TexRail line and the Dash.  Ridership for those 2 transportation options is truly a joke.  Light Rail in FW will not happen in any of our lifetimes if ever and I this is coming from someone who is a huge proponent of mass transit.

[Jeriat]

I mean if Austin can't even get a decent light rail system going then what chance do we have...

 

 

 

Austin city council approves light rail finance plan

 

 

 

 

Project Connect vote: Austin residents pass $7.1 billion transit plan

 

 

Not disagreeing with most of what you said, but... there's a way. 

I will disagree with you saying "Light Rail in FW will not happen in any of OUR lifetimes", though. 

[rriojas71]

Jeriat, If it happens in my lifetime I would definitely be excited for it.

[Electricron]

Jeriat, If it happens in my lifetime I would definitely be excited for it.

So would I. I am excited by every new line DART, DCTA, and Trinity Metro builds. 

I am excited by every TOD (developments) built by the new lines. 

I am excited by the regeneration of neighborhoods, piece by piece. 

Hopefully someday we will have  true urban residential neighborhoods.

People should have choices on how they expect to live.

 

But I do not demand we must have them. 

 

100 years ago, electric interurbans connected Denison to Waco through Dallas and Fort Worth. You could ride the electric trains at speeds over 70 mph while Model Ts were running 20-30 mph speeds over dirt and gravel roads between these north Texas cities. It was really faster to go by train.

But automobile technology was changing, roads were paved and internal combustion engines got more powerful. Within a relatively short 25 years, most of the roads were paved, lanes were added for the increased number of automobiles, and freeways were built. The interurban monopoly was broken up, then forced out of business with fares restrictions. Only the streetcars remained around for another 10 years before they were all replaced by buses. Eventually, the privately ran buses went out of business to be replaced by government subsidized buses. 

Cars are the fastest way to get between Denison and Waco now. It is the only way unless you fly a private plane. Even if we completely rebuilt the interurbans, they would not have the twice the speed advantage they had 100 years ago. To get that speed advantage, the trains would have to be high speed trains, meglevs, or hyperloops. And no one is suggesting building them between Dension and Waco. 

Sure it would be nice if someone did, but should we demand it?

 

I believe new couples wishing to grow a new family should have choices where to set up roots. But I do not think government should step in and tell them where they must live, or how to live their lives. Let the free market make those choices possible. 

[Austin55]

Trinity Metro has significaly expanded the Near Southside Zipzone. It now goes as far Southwest as the Westcliff shopping center, covering all of TCU along the way, all the way to the West 7th core district,  and some of the West side of downtown. 

https://ridetrinitym...t-7th-corridor/

[Austin55]

Trinity Metros reorganized bus routes launch September 5th.

https://ridetrinitym...ter-connection/

[Dylan]

The planned Route 54 (current routes 3 and 14) is very unfortunate. That's two current routes that will pass within a mile of Central Station without stopping at it.

 

Instead, you will have to make a transfer to route 89 in a scary part of town... then make another transfer at Central Station if you intended to make a transfer there.

 

Several other routes are also losing access to Central Station, including 4 and 7. This network will add a second transfer for a lot of people who currently make one transfer.

 

I'm not so sure the new system will be better than the current system. Hopefully, the hours of operation will be better on routes that currently end service late-afternoon.

[Austin55]

P1s on the forum May have noticed Trinity Metro advertising on the ticket recently.

[Austin55]

TM will offer temporary reduced and free fares when the new system 

 

 

To build support of potential riders and mitigate any customer service issues with existing customers, Trinity Metro staff would like to offer a discounted promotional fare to kick off the implementation and build ridership through the end of the calendar year. The proposal is a week of free rides beginning on September 5, 2021. After the initial seven days, the free fare would transition into a reduced option on one-ride fares and multi-ride tickets from September 12 through December 31, 2021. One-ride fares would be $1 system-wide and multi-ride tickets would be 50% off. The promotional fares would be valid on local tickets only.

[Dylan]

Unfortunately, there is no week long extension or countdown pause on my active local 31-day pass.

 

Thanks, Trinity Metro. [/Sarcasm]

 

---------

 

I'm inclined to believe Trinity Metro is reducing fares to keep ridership up, as ridership would likely drop without a fare decrease.

 

This new network dramatically reduces the number of routes converging downtown. It will be a huge burden for many passengers who used to have a convenient transfer downtown, but now have a second transfer.

 

There are a few positives. Route 15 now serves TEXRail's North Side Station. Route 2 was extended to serve more people. Almost every route ends around 10pm instead of 6 or 7pm.

 

But, the number of routes no longer serving downtown will be a greater negative than the above positives for many people.

[Austin55]

TRE link will now connect with TEXRail at Terminal B.

 

https://fortworth.cu...ort-terminal-b/

[Nitixope]

TRE link will now connect with TEXRail at Terminal B.

 

https://fortworth.cu...ort-terminal-b/

 

I totally forgot they were dumping passengers off at the rental car lot.  What a shame all these years having the TRE that close to the airport with such a confusing connection process.  During the pandemic, I drove by the south remote lot and I'm not even sure it was operating during that time. 

 

That reminds me, I had to drop something off at the airport post office on Monday over on Rental Car Rd across from the What-a-Burger, and I saw a well-dressed business traveler wandering what seemed to be aimlessly through the parking lots with suitcase in-hand.  Not sure if someone had dropped them off at that gas station thinking there was a terminal connection bus or if they were trying to get to the rental car lot perhaps.  I've been in that situation in Germany where you take public transportation 98% of the way and can see your destination which looks like you're almost there, but really "almost there" is actually about a 3-mile walk once you get into it.

[rriojas71]

TRE link will now connect with TEXRail at Terminal B.

 

https://fortworth.cu...ort-terminal-b/

In other words we could have done this years ago and not have spent money on a TEXrail line that is extremely underused... or used at all.  LOL

 

Hopefully,  TEXrail will add ridership as time passes.

[Nitixope]

 

TRE link will now connect with TEXRail at Terminal B.

 

https://fortworth.cu...ort-terminal-b/

In other words we could have done this years ago and not have spent money on a TEXrail line that is extremely underused... or used at all.  LOL

 

Hopefully,  TEXrail will add ridership as time passes.

 

 

Would have certainly cost less than $1B too!  Could they not have figured out a way to run a people mover from CenterPort to the Terminals and stop by the rental car lot on the way to and from?  Get rid of the buses altogether.  Not like there isn't plenty of land through there, most of which is owned by the airport.

[txbornviking]

 

TRE link will now connect with TEXRail at Terminal B.

 

https://fortworth.cu...ort-terminal-b/

 

I totally forgot they were dumping passengers off at the rental car lot.  What a shame all these years having the TRE that close to the airport with such a confusing connection process.  During the pandemic, I drove by the south remote lot and I'm not even sure it was operating during that time. 

 

That reminds me, I had to drop something off at the airport post office on Monday over on Rental Car Rd across from the What-a-Burger, and I saw a well-dressed business traveler wandering what seemed to be aimlessly through the parking lots with suitcase in-hand.  Not sure if someone had dropped them off at that gas station thinking there was a terminal connection bus or if they were trying to get to the rental car lot perhaps.  I've been in that situation in Germany where you take public transportation 98% of the way and can see your destination which looks like you're almost there, but really "almost there" is actually about a 3-mile walk once you get into it.

 

 

Remote North and South lots are closed.

Customers can park in Express North for a rate of $12/day, Express South for a rate of $10/day, or any of DFW's Terminal parking.

 

https://www.dfwairpo...om/park/remote/

 

 

My wife and experienced this problem in early May and again around Labor Day.... to put it mildly, it was a frustrating experience.

 

I have heard there are similar closures at other airport, Cleveland, Raleigh-Durham, Salt Lake City... while it just feels like a cash grab, I suspect there's something else going on, but it sure as hell is annoying.

[Nitixope]

You can use "The Parking Spot" and do uncovered self park for $5.25 a day with a shuttle ride into the airport.  I've never tried it but if you're on a budget or taking an extended trip and don't want to pay $10/day it's another option.

 

https://www.theparkingspot.com/

[elpingüino]

  Remote North and South lots are closed.
Customers can park in Express North for a rate of $12/day, Express South for a rate of $10/day, or any of DFW's Terminal parking.
 
https://www.dfwairpo...om/park/remote/
 
 
My wife and experienced this problem in early May and again around Labor Day.... to put it mildly, it was a frustrating experience.
 
I have heard there are similar closures at other airport, Cleveland, Raleigh-Durham, Salt Lake City... while it just feels like a cash grab, I suspect there's something else going on, but it sure as hell is annoying.

In Denver at least, airport lots are closed due to shortages of shuttle drivers. Not sure if the problem is the same around here. https://www.denverpo...ia-parking/amp/

[Austin55]

Trinity Metro reporting increased bus ridership after implementing the new system.

 

Here's the riderhship of other services,

 

 

 

[Austin55]

Ive noticed new, shorter Trinity Metro buses with wraps that say Mini Mover being used.

[txbornviking]

speaking of Trinity Metro and their never implemented T Master Plan...

 

Miranda Suarez with KERA News has a good piece that in part discusses the pitiful funding for public transportation options here in Fort Worth.

 

https://www.keranews...nities-of-color

[Austin55]

Trinity Metro has made various adjustments to the new route system, show below. 



Ridership dipped a bit in January.

[John T Roberts]

The Bus Yard is getting a $6.5 Million Federal Grant, which will  help upgrade the yard.  Here's a link in the Fort Worth Report.

 

https://fortworthrep...metro-bus-yard/

[Austin55]

Trinity Metro has a new CEO. Richard Andreski was most recently head of the Connecticut Department of Transportation.

https://www.cbsnews....nity-metro-ceo/

[mmmdan]

The Bus Yard is getting a $6.5 Million Federal Grant, which will  help upgrade the yard.  Here's a link in the Fort Worth Report.

 

https://fortworthrep...metro-bus-yard/

 

Am I the only one that is confused that the bus yard requires generators to power the yard?  Am I misinterpreting something?

 

I would think that they would be plugged in to regular grid and then use the generators when the power is out, but the article didn't call them emergency generators.  I would think that it's more efficient/environmentally friendly to be powered off the grid.

[RD Milhollin]

Am I the only one that is confused that the bus yard requires generators to power the yard?  Am I misinterpreting something?

 

I would think that they would be plugged in to regular grid and then use the generators when the power is out, but the article didn't call them emergency generators.  I would think that it's more efficient/environmentally friendly to be powered off the grid.

 

Looks like a lot of roof at that facility; I wonder if solar panels were considered as a part of the energy plan?

[Nitixope]

 

The Bus Yard is getting a $6.5 Million Federal Grant, which will  help upgrade the yard.  Here's a link in the Fort Worth Report.

 

https://fortworthrep...metro-bus-yard/

 

Am I the only one that is confused that the bus yard requires generators to power the yard?  Am I misinterpreting something?

 

I would think that they would be plugged in to regular grid and then use the generators when the power is out, but the article didn't call them emergency generators.  I would think that it's more efficient/environmentally friendly to be powered off the grid.

 

 

I read through that article the other night and it sounds like the guy they quoted was referring to a complete power loss scenario like we had in the big freeze but was over-generalizing the emergency back-up power situation.  I think he's just saying they would want to expand their emergency back-up power capacity to more than just the radio control comms equipment and include the office power and lights, which indicates they have a very undersized generator currently.  If they're wanting more back-up power, I'd look at keeping the servers up and having a dedicated A/C system for those pieces of hardware.  Also, they'd likely need a generator capacity large enough to not only power lights and receptacles but also building heat and AC.  It can be done but it gets super expensive not only the generator but the automatic transfer switch and any sort of electrical labor and materials needed to recircuit / reallocate power to the right breaker panel(s).  I would think second to radio comms would their bus filling equipment.  Aren't those CNG buses...if so they probably have some sort of pump controls and things that need back-up power.  This whole discussion at the end of the article about happy employees and break rooms in the bus barn seems like it should be addressed separately from their operational requirements if that's the route they are going.  There's a pretty long lead time on bigger generators right now, it just depends on their capacity needs. 

[Nitixope]

S-T Public Transportation Survey:

 

https://www.star-tel...e262202607.html

[Jeriat]

My car was in the shop yesterday and it was going to be a 3-5 hour job... so I decided to take the bus around to downtown and West 7th instead of just wait in a room for that time. 

Pretty decent amount of riders on that 51 line (Bryant Irving) to Camp Bowie that morning. 

[Nitixope]

This seems like a good alternative to using larger buses if the ridership doesn't justify a bigger vehicle and is less obtrusive to navigate through neighborhoods / campuses:

 

[360texas]

Did you happen to notice if the MiniMover was Electric, LNGas, Hybrid, gasoline or other fueled ?  I think the buses while larger were LNGas fuel.   

[Nitixope]

Did you happen to notice if the MiniMover was Electric, LNGas, Hybrid, gasoline or other fueled ?  I think the buses while larger were LNGas fuel.   

 

That's a good question.  Usually the CNG vehicles are labeled on the back or side and I see a tailpipe on this bus which leads me to believe it could be regular gas or possibly diesel and not electric.  I'll let you know here if I find out any more info.  

[Dylan]

Since Mini-Mover vans are supposed to serve the same purpose as standard buses, they ought to be painted to look the same as standard buses.

 

Painting Mini-Mover vans to look different than standard buses gives the impression that they're supposed to serve a different purpose.

[Austin55]

New Trinity Metro President & CEO Richard Andreski gave a presentation to the city council regarding 2023 plans as part of the city's budget planning process. 

It's a nice executive summary of how the system is doing and upcoming projects. 

https://www.fortwort...initiatives.pdf

 

[Jeriat]

New Trinity Metro President & CEO Richard Andreski gave a presentation to the city council regarding 2023 plans as part of the city's budget planning process. 

It's a nice executive summary of how the system is doing and upcoming projects. 

https://www.fortwort...initiatives.pdf

 

Where it shows the Medical District extension, I can see where the track can split north to West 7th, if they ever decided to do that . . . 

[Austin55]

Trinity Metro has launched a new online dashboard which shows a number of ridership, reliability and safety metrics. 

 

https://ridetrinitym...oard/ridership/

[John T Roberts]

There is a story in the Fort Worth Report about Trinity Metro's, new, modern bus stops:  Juan Salinas II, wrote the story.

 

https://fortworthrep...public-transit/

[Nitixope]

There is a story in the Fort Worth Report about Trinity Metro's, new, modern bus stops:  Juan Salinas II, wrote the story.

 

https://fortworthrep...public-transit/

 

$8,000 and they don't think these will be vandalized or stolen?  It's a nice thought but it seems like a waste of money.

 

[mmmdan]

It would be interesting to see them upgrade this stop.  This has to be one of the most inaccessible bus stops in the whole network.

https://www.google.c...i8192?entry=ttu

[Austin55]

It would be interesting to see them upgrade this stop.  This has to be one of the most inaccessible bus stops in the whole network.

https://www.google.c...i8192?entry=ttu

 

Funny - that is exactly the one I had in mind when reading your post. Terrible location.

[Jeriat]

It would be interesting to see them upgrade this stop.  This has to be one of the most inaccessible bus stops in the whole network.

https://www.google.c...i8192?entry=ttu

 

It's bad enough in the day.

Imagine what that stop is like at night... 

[JBB]

Having worked in that area for the last 25 years, I've driven by that stop a number of times and had "WTF" enter a thought bubble above of head.

[Doohickie]

They need a flashing pedestrian crossing there, a shelter and a handicap ramp.  To get those in there would probably require removing a shrub or three.

[Nitixope]

Is that the same railroad on the other side of the shrubs that runs through Trinity Park?

[John T Roberts]

Nitixope, it is the same railroad line.

[rriojas71]

They need a flashing pedestrian crossing there, a shelter and a handicap ramp.  To get those in there would probably require removing a shrub or three.

I just think that stop needs to be axed altogether.  I was on 8th today and noticed the stop after it being brought up here and there is another stop about a block south that would be a better place for a stop in that area.  The bench is near Elizabeth St., which services Ryan Place and I don't how many people who live near there are actually using this stop?  I would say little to none.

[FunkyTownTay]

Almost as bad - the one by Granbury Rd and i-20

[txbornviking]

 

There is a story in the Fort Worth Report about Trinity Metro's, new, modern bus stops:  Juan Salinas II, wrote the story.

 

https://fortworthrep...public-transit/

 

$8,000 and they don't think these will be vandalized or stolen?  It's a nice thought but it seems like a waste of money.

 

 

 

IMO, overall, this is a very exciting.

 

Quality shelters help provide a quality marking of place for bus ridership and are a step in showing respect and dignity for bus riders.

 

$10k per shelter may seem expensive, but it's a pretty good cost when compared to national numbers. The additional $8k for the digital ink signs however does seem high .

I'd love to read more about how much total budget would be allocated to this program, how many of the 1,714 stops would receive these shelters, and time frame for project completion.

 

In 2014 San Antonio began a 3yr, $12M, plan to install shelters at 1,000 bus stops! 95% of all boarding's now take place at a stop with a shelter!

https://transitcente...menities at VIA.

[Austin55]

Trinity Metro is planning to expand ZipZone into Forest Hill and Mansfield. 

 

 

Over the last several months, Trinity Metro staff, along with the North Central Texas Council of Governments (NCTCOG), have been working with the City of Mansfield and the City of Forest Hill regarding the implementation of ZIPZONE service to address the lack of transportation options for their residents. Through the Transit Strategic Partnership Program administered by NCTCOG, local governments, public transportation providers, and nonprofit organizations can submit innovative transit project proposals for federal funding eligibility. The Regional Transportation Council has approximately $11.8 million in federal funds available to award eligible transit projects.

 

The City of Mansfield and the City of Forest Hill have committed to submit project proposals through the Transit Strategic Partnership Program to implement the ZIPZONE service that could begin in the Fall of 2023. The Trinity Metro staff have prepared draft Interlocal Agreements for both cities in anticipation of receiving the federal award grant. The term of the Agreement would be for thirty-six (36) months with optional years available to each city if they wish to continue service. There is no cost associated to Trinity Metro as federal funding and a local match contribution from both cities will cover all expenses. Trinity Metro will add a small fee to administer the Program, and we will incorporate the marketing of the OnDemand Services into its overall marketing plan.  

 

Also, route 25 will have a service frequency increase,

 

 

Route 25 Miller/E. Seminary was identified as part of the “A Better Connection” system redesign study (2019-2021) as warranting an increase in frequency but was not implemented at that time due to budget constraints.  It was the consultant’s recommendation to implement as soon as budget allowed.  Route 25 Miller/E. Seminary will increase service from 30 minute to 15 minute frequencies between the hours of 7:04 am to 7:04 pm on weekdays and from 60 minute to 15 minute frequencies on weekends.

 

https://ridetrinitymetro.org/meetings/

[txbornviking]

Trinity Metro is planning to expand ZipZone into Forest Hill and Mansfield. 

 

 

Over the last several months, Trinity Metro staff, along with the North Central Texas Council of Governments (NCTCOG), have been working with the City of Mansfield and the City of Forest Hill regarding the implementation of ZIPZONE service to address the lack of transportation options for their residents. Through the Transit Strategic Partnership Program administered by NCTCOG, local governments, public transportation providers, and nonprofit organizations can submit innovative transit project proposals for federal funding eligibility. The Regional Transportation Council has approximately $11.8 million in federal funds available to award eligible transit projects.

 

The City of Mansfield and the City of Forest Hill have committed to submit project proposals through the Transit Strategic Partnership Program to implement the ZIPZONE service that could begin in the Fall of 2023. The Trinity Metro staff have prepared draft Interlocal Agreements for both cities in anticipation of receiving the federal award grant. The term of the Agreement would be for thirty-six (36) months with optional years available to each city if they wish to continue service. There is no cost associated to Trinity Metro as federal funding and a local match contribution from both cities will cover all expenses. Trinity Metro will add a small fee to administer the Program, and we will incorporate the marketing of the OnDemand Services into its overall marketing plan.  

 

Also, route 25 will have a service frequency increase,

 

 

Route 25 Miller/E. Seminary was identified as part of the “A Better Connection” system redesign study (2019-2021) as warranting an increase in frequency but was not implemented at that time due to budget constraints.  It was the consultant’s recommendation to implement as soon as budget allowed.  Route 25 Miller/E. Seminary will increase service from 30 minute to 15 minute frequencies between the hours of 7:04 am to 7:04 pm on weekdays and from 60 minute to 15 minute frequencies on weekends.

 

https://ridetrinitymetro.org/meetings/

 

absolutely LOVE this boost to 15min frequencies, ESPECIALLY on weekends.