147 replies to this topic

[elpingüino]

Lately there have been a number of comments hinting at the Central Library moving.

We still don't know where the Library will end up...

While we're at it maybe they consider putting the Central Library in it as well.  Kill a couple of birds with one stone.

  

That said, I don't dislike this move.  It's a huge upgrade to a much more modern facility and it's certainly cheaper than building something new.  I'm not sure where this leaves the library.  If they're stuck keeping the current city hall, maybe a remodel can make room for it there and allow the city to unload that property.

But there hasn't been any discussion on the Forum beyond these occasional references, so I looked it up. Here's some background in a Star-Telegram article from 2019, with the city discussing the idea of selling the property and relocating the library. https://www.star-tel...e234060397.html

[Austin55]

I actually love the idea of using the old City Hall as the new central library.

[Austin55]

The libraries masterplan is online. There is quite a few descriptions for he vision of a new central library.

 

https://www.fortwort...typlan_2019.pdf

[Austin55]

It looks like the central library has been listed for sale... although without much fanfare. I imagine a press release or more info is coming soon. 

[txbornviking]

It looks like the central library has been listed for sale... although without much fanfare. I imagine a press release or more info is coming soon. 

without a replacement lined up, funded, or under construction, that... is... absolutely jaw dropping news

[Jeriat]

 

It looks like the central library has been listed for sale... although without much fanfare. I imagine a press release or more info is coming soon. 

without a replacement lined up, funded, or under construction, that... is... absolutely jaw dropping news

 

 

Could be something in place behind the scenes... 

[Austin55]

Jeriat, I'd like to see you draw up some ideas for this property.

[Jeriat]

Jeriat, I'd like to see you draw up some ideas for this property.

 

I might think of something over the weekend.

[johnfwd]

 

It looks like the central library has been listed for sale... although without much fanfare. I imagine a press release or more info is coming soon. 

 

 

The libraries masterplan is online. There is quite a few descriptions for he vision of a new central library.

 

https://www.fortwort...typlan_2019.pdf

The library master plan posted here states that the central library will be relocated.  See pages 5 and 6 of the plan.  So the listing for sale noted in Post #4 above shouldn't be a surprise.

[GenX]

It's fun to dream. But who are we kidding ? Fort Worth development is so predictable. Just like Fort Worth Summer weather. Hot dry and humid.  We all know it will be replaced with apartment buildings when all is said and done. And it will have a name something along the lines of "Library Apartments" 

[Dylan]

When the new city hall building on Lancaster Avenue was proposed, it was supposed to host the new central library as well.

 

Since the Pier 1 Imports tower is so big, I have to imagine there's plenty of room for a new central library inside of it.

 

So, I suspected that the central library would still relocate and the current site would be sold at some point. Though, I'm surprised by the timing. I suspected this would happen after the library had already relocated.

[Jeriat]

When the new city hall building on Lancaster Avenue was proposed, it was supposed to host the new central library as well.

 

Since the Pier 1 Imports tower is so big, I have to imagine there's plenty of room for a new central library inside of it.

 

So, I suspected that the central library would still relocate and the current site would be sold at some point. Though, I'm surprised by the timing. I suspected this would happen after the library had already relocated.

If it's not that, I'd suspect it would be the "old" City Hall. 

I just feel like the city wouldn't put that building on sale NOW without something lined up already... perhaps they just haven't announced that part, yet.

[elpingüino]

The Star-Telegram reports the library won't move to the Pier 1 building, but to a site closer to 80,000 sqft that's not yet determined. That's almost a third of the current 234,000 sqft site.

https://www.star-tel...e258524123.html

[Jeriat]

The Star-Telegram reports the library won't move to the Pier 1 building, but to a site closer to 80,000 sqft that's not yet determined. That's almost a third of the current 234,000 sqft site.

https://www.star-tel...e258524123.html

 

Thought so.

I knew they wouldn't just sell that spot without something else lined up.

[Crestline]

The Star-Telegram reports the library won't move to the Pier 1 building, but to a site closer to 80,000 sqft that's not yet determined. That's almost a third of the current 234,000 sqft site.

https://www.star-tel...e258524123.html

 

If I hadn't skimmed the facility plan linked above, I would think the significant size reduction was a bad thing. But I learned from the plan that the current 234,000 square footage isn't fully used (the entire top (2nd) floor has been unfinished since it was built 20 years ago!), and what is used is used a bit awkwardly. So, moving to a smaller location could be a real benefit. 

 

It's fun to dream. But who are we kidding ? Fort Worth development is so predictable. Just like Fort Worth Summer weather. Hot dry and humid.  We all know it will be replaced with apartment buildings when all is said and done. And it will have a name something along the lines of "Library Apartments" 

 

Maybe if the existing structure was a teardown in poor condition. But, I didn't gather from the plan document that this is the case. Is it more likely that the existing structure will be repurposed for commercial / office?

[JBB]

A smaller space makes sense given the migration to electronic resources for research.  Concentrate on a solid area for kids and young people and dedicate funds to low-cost loanable e-readers.

 

And would anyone be that surprised if the city moved forward with a sale of the property without a replacement plan?  The city of FW has a long record of no-baked or half-baked plans for their properties - building Dickies Arena with no plan to fund a revamp of the convention center space, the police facility on Felix, have they actually done anything with the old NBC5 buildings?, how long did they use new event spaces at the WR complex for parking?  That's just what I can remember.

[GenX]

 

The Star-Telegram reports the library won't move to the Pier 1 building, but to a site closer to 80,000 sqft that's not yet determined. That's almost a third of the current 234,000 sqft site.

https://www.star-tel...e258524123.html

 

If I hadn't skimmed the facility plan linked above, I would think the significant size reduction was a bad thing. But I learned from the plan that the current 234,000 square footage isn't fully used (the entire top (2nd) floor has been unfinished since it was built 20 years ago!), and what is used is used a bit awkwardly. So, moving to a smaller location could be a real benefit. 

 

It's fun to dream. But who are we kidding ? Fort Worth development is so predictable. Just like Fort Worth Summer weather. Hot dry and humid.  We all know it will be replaced with apartment buildings when all is said and done. And it will have a name something along the lines of "Library Apartments" 

 

Maybe if the existing structure was a teardown in poor condition. But, I didn't gather from the plan document that this is the case. Is it more likely that the existing structure will be repurposed for commercial / office?

 

 

The place leaks water even on a average rain shower. During heavy rains ? Forget it. It leaks along the walls even down the center walkway by the bathrooms ? But if I recall one of the reason why they put a full top floor decades ago was to solve leaks ? But rain water still finds it's way in ? It's always been a ongoing problem. But still this leaky Library holds a lot of memories for me personally. I don't think or remember if I was ever been at the old one ? 

[GenX]

With the digital age and e-books well established. I wonder if they should not be too quick making the new library smaller ? With Texas A&M coming ? Yes they will have it's own library. But I just hope whatever they build they will factor A&M and even the Junior college in mind as they plan.  

[Jeriat]

How about get the Central Library out of downtown?  Somewhere you could bike up to it or drive up to it, even something with some nice outdoor space for learning perhaps near the Trinity River?  Make it something special, something architecturally inspiring and include it in the TRV project. 

 

I'm sort of thinking about the TRWD offices as a design model for the space but slightly closer to downtown:

https://goo.gl/maps/gKLfMFWJXhht9jRL8

 

Or if it were downtown, this was one project that caught my attention:

 

Minneapolis Central Library - they went for an insane 353,000 SQFT which is probably more than anyone really needs.

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps we could bring back the old model of the TCC East Campus for as an idea . . . 

 

[Austin55]

"Terms of the sale require the buyer to help develop a new, modern Central Library in downtown to better meet the needs of residents."
https://www.fortwort...entral-for-sale

[RD Milhollin]

How about repurposing the old Texas Electric Power Plant on Panther Peninsula as the Central Library? Are there any known structural problems that would make it unfit for the purpose? If not it is probably built more robustly than 95% of the buildings in the area. Probably about as fire-proof as any building of similar size you could name in the city. Can it be fully decontaminated from the inevitable grease, heavy metals, and asbestos that went along with power plants of it's time? Lots of nice surroundings, room for meetings, coffee bar, etc. What else are you going to do with this building?

[Austin55]

Wild dream time/totally fictitious but plausible scenario idea: City could sell the Library site to Fort Worth-based Crescent Real Estate, who have recently begun new developments in the city. Crescent tears down the library and builds a new 2 block mixed-use project with retail, office and residential at the site. City also sells the Convention Center Annex and Convention Center Garage to Crescent. Crescent builds a new library at the site of the garage, adjacent to the new A&M Campus, which Crescent CEO John Goff is helping support. Crescent builds a new 1,000 room convention hotel at the site of the CC annex, as recommended by the CC expansion masterplan. 

Crescent precedent and capabilities examples:
Library site mixed-use: McKinney & Olive in Dallas
Convention Center hotel: Embassy Suites and 1 Hotel in Nashville
Library: The Luminary Office building in Dallas

[Crestline]

"Terms of the sale require the buyer to help develop a new, modern Central Library in downtown to better meet the needs of residents."
https://www.fortwort...entral-for-sale

 

I haven't heard of a commercial arrangement like this before, in which a property buyer is required to help the seller develop a new location. Seems like a weird constraint that'll shrink the pool of interested buyers, right? Why not just sell to a first party and then hire a second party as a developer for the new location?

[Dylan]

 

The Star-Telegram reports the library won't move to the Pier 1 building, but to a site closer to 80,000 sqft that's not yet determined. That's almost a third of the current 234,000 sqft site.

https://www.star-tel...e258524123.html

 

Thought so.

I knew they wouldn't just sell that spot without something else lined up.

 

 

Um... it sounds like they don't have something else lined up, since the location of a new site is not determined yet. Yikes.

 

I suppose a central library isn't necessary with so many other libraries. But, as the core population grows, more and more residents will have to leave the core to access a library.

[Dylan]

 

"Terms of the sale require the buyer to help develop a new, modern Central Library in downtown to better meet the needs of residents."
https://www.fortwort...entral-for-sale

 

I haven't heard of a commercial arrangement like this before, in which a property buyer is required to help the seller develop a new location. Seems like a weird constraint that'll shrink the pool of interested buyers, right? Why not just sell to a first party and then hire a second party as a developer for the new location?

 

 

This makes me wonder if the city already has a handshake agreement with a specific developer, and added that stipulation to eliminate unwanted offers.

[Austin55]

This makes me wonder if the city already has a handshake agreement with a specific developer, and added that stipulation to eliminate unwanted offers.

The way this has come together so fast makes me think you are on to something.

[JBB]

That's what I was thinking.  Otherwise this just seems highly unusual. 

[Austin55]

The Star-Telegram reports the library won't move to the Pier 1 building, but to a site closer to 80,000 sqft that's not yet determined. That's almost a third of the current 234,000 sqft site.

For reference, the new-ish Arlington Central Library is exactly that, 80,000 sqft. It was $25 million to build.

I hope Fort Worth, with 2x the population, will build something a bit more grand. No offense to Arlington's space, which is fantastic.

[steave]

Arlington manages to have nicer public facilities despite being smaller. It's also surprising since it is not what you would consider an affluent new suburb. It may be mostly postwar suburbs but its still closer in character to Fort Worth or Dallas proper than say, a Frisco which is uniformly $$$. A lot of it's rather old, run down looking, blue collar, not all white, etc. Doesn't seem like it would have that much more of a tax base(lots of dead retail centers and blight) and those stadiums were an expensive albatross around their neck too.

[JBB]

Arlington is much more well-established and has a much larger population than the area's more affluent suburbs.  It has plenty of affluent areas and a lot more social and economic diversity.  That said, if Fort Worth can't string together a central library in 80k square feet in this electronic age, they're probably doing it wrong.

[elpingüino]

The City posted an announcement with more information: https://www.fortwort...ibrary-For-Sale
It says that once the building is sold, current staff members will be assigned to "a temporary library space in or near downtown" or to other branches.

[Crestline]

Talk about The Cart Before the Horse / Shoot Now; Ask Questions Later.

Is every real estate deal the city makes now, done in haste? Most businesses would not make decisions like this, why is it OK for a municipality to do so?

 

I think the "property buyer is required to help the city develop a new library location" clause in the listing helps to shield the city from this criticism, at least in the instance of this sale. The clause avoids "asking questions later" by instead making answering the question "where does the library go next" an integral part of selling the current location.  In contrast, if this clause were absent, I would agree that the city is putting the cart before the horse by selling the current location without an apparent relocation-development plan.

[JBB]

Bud Kennedys insistence that the buyer is another government entity makes this all make a lot more sense. Probably the county.

[Jeriat]

Bud Kennedys insistence that the buyer is another government entity makes this all make a lot more sense. Probably the county.

 

...any thoughts on what that could be?

[JBB]

They didn't get their bond for the DA's office to pass.  Maybe they could get the money to purchase the library and finish out the space for that use.  Or it could be anything.  I'm sure their need for office space is endless, especially since they've been clear that they won't allow anyone to work from home.

[RD Milhollin]

They want to turn this potential tax revenue producing block next to Sundance Square properties into a Police-Prosecutor Compound while with the other hand tearing down the Criminal Courts Building on Belknap over by the jail and courts? Really? Has the Panther Peninsula development gang left the Island and moved over to the mainland? Has anyone seen Kay's kid recently?

[WTXKid]

Maybe the Library could become TCU Law... just speculating here. Don't take me seriously. lol. But it would be cool.

[gdvanc]

The city needed a new city hall and a new central library. One of my disappointments with their city hall decision is that this seemed like an opportunity to create a grand civic space for these and other functions. Instead, for city hall they grab what has to be one of the largest (and newest) available chunks of contiguous Class A office space - in a city that's trying to attract corporate relos - and taking it off the tax rolls.

[gdvanc]

Funny that in FW 20-years old is still considered new office space.  An office tower is pretty much good for one thing: an office tower.

Yeah, that is unfortunate. And it seems like one of the few places where a large relocation could have happened fairly quickly. Oh, well.

 

Man, a new city hall and a new library. Those needs don't come up very often (ideally, anyway). What a missed opportunity. If I were emperor, those would definitely be either in the same space or adjoining each other with some green space or grand plaza. Maybe throw in some sort of History of Fort Worth little mini-museum. Nods to aviation and rail and - yes - even cattle. Learn about Gooseneck Bill and Longhair Jim and Al Hayne... maybe some famous Fort Worthians... maybe a Fort Worth Hall of Fame... learn about the city's past and get a bigger picture of where it is now and the scale of the job the city has in fulfilling its responsibilities... city staff giving demos to kids about city services... That's all vague rambling but it seems like something could have been built that serves multiple needs in an environment that tries to help people learn more about the city's past, to better understand where it is now and to provide opportunities to be more engaged in its future. That would be my 'vision'.

[gdvanc]

Looks about right.

 

Another problem with the current site is the need for a garage (given the sprawling reach of the city limits means that many visitors will be driving in). It would need surface or vertical parking in any case, but if we consider that area near the river a bit of a premium area with the goals of the TRV then that garage will be on a lot that might've otherwise seen higher-value use. Higher-value in the sense of higher property taxes for the coffers. And I'd argue that it would make more sense to have the central library (and the public-facing part of city hall) nearer a nexus of bus routes and, if possible, the limited rail available now (or perhaps the not-too-distant future). The people driving from the municipal hinterlands are going to have to drive and park anyway; at least make it easier for those with fewer options.

[GenX]

The city needed a new city hall and a new central library. One of my disappointments with their city hall decision is that this seemed like an opportunity to create a grand civic space for these and other functions. Instead, for city hall they grab what has to be one of the largest (and newest) available chunks of contiguous Class A office space - in a city that's trying to attract corporate relos - and taking it off the tax rolls.

 

I agree. But I also fully support the city buying Pier One. So without beating around the bush why I support this building for our new city hall. I simply given up that this city will ever get  a new major corporate relocation. Much less two or more. Lord knows I've tried to on social media to explain to city hall for a major rehaul to get those relocation. And I am very disappointed with out new mayor and city council. After months of being in office they given no new strategy plan ? And I given my ideas on what to do on another post. And on another post I pointed out how we cannot even keep small homegrown companies ? But it seems that our city leaders may indeed be "young" in age. But still operate like the same old guard ? 

 

Yea I wished Pier One was still a office tower for private business and that Fort Worth needed office space so bad that we built a second Pier One taller twin ? And built other 30 something office buildings. But that is just a fantasy. Other Texas city own that market. Yes I will still try to prove myself wrong ! But I felt it's time to be more practical and I support Pier One as our city Hall. Corporate companies have not and will not come to Fort Worth. So why not make the best of it ?  

[Austin55]

The Forum mentioned in the Fort Worth Report's latest article on the library. 

https://fortworthrep...ry-is-for-sale/

[Austin55]

City Council will vote to sell the property to Dart Interests, LLC for $18 million. 

 

https://fortworthgov...AC-0903AA251878
 

 

The purpose of this Mayor and Council Communication (M&C) is to authorize the conveyance of land and improvements commonly known as the Central Library, located at 500 West 3rd Street, Fort Worth, Tarrant County, Texas 76102 and being approximately 2.32 acres situated in Block 45R, Fort Worth Original Town Addition (Property) to Dart Interests, LLC, or affiliate (Dart). The Property was purchased by the City of Fort Worth (City) in 1976 for the Central Library (Library) with the original underground structure being completed in 1978. On February 18, 1992 (M&C C13246) Fort Worth City Council (Council) approved the design for a ground floor shell structure to cover the underground Library site to allow for future expansion of the Library and for the construction of improvements to prevent stormwater from entering the Library. On July 29, 1997 (M&C G11957), Council approved the renovation and infrastructure necessary to finish out the first floor of the Library. The renovations to the Library were completed in 1999.

 

Section 253.014 of the Texas Local Government Code allows a municipality to sell City-owned property by contracting with a broker, provided that the property is listed with a multiple-listing service for at least 30 days and that the property is sold to the buyer who submits the highest cash offer. The City contracted with Jones Lang Lasalle Brokerage and the Property was listed for 160 days with a multiple-listing service. The listing required prospective buyers to develop the Property as a mixed-use project including office space and high-rise residential, to provide a lease of space with an option to purchase for a new library within the redeveloped property, and a minimum total capital investment of $100,000,000.00. The City also published notice of its intention to sell the Property in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram once a week for four consecutive weeks.

 

The City reviewed multiple offers and recommends accepting Dart's offer of $18,000,000.00, which was the highest cash offer and included a mixed-use development project. Upon closing, Dart has agreed to lease the Property back to the City for a one-year term with an option to extend for an additional year. The base rent for the first year will be $400,000.00 with the City also being responsible for all taxes, insurance, and operational costs (property taxes are estimated to be in the amount of $445,000.00 and insurance and operating expenses are estimated to be in the amount of $300,000.00) for an estimated total cost of $1,145,000.00. The base rent for the second year, if necessary, would be $810,000.00. The City and Dart agreed to a lease buy-out fee equal to the pro-rated rent amount left for the term with property taxes being paid by the City in full. The proceeds from the sale of the Property will be used to pay for the leaseback, property taxes, insurance, and operating expenses. 

[Austin55]

Council approved the sale. 

[RD Milhollin]

It would be cool if the buyers had negotiated access to the former Leonard's/Tandy subway and were able to partner with other downtown developers to resurrect the line and even extend it. Lots of land available on Panther Island for sale for parking, even for 10 years... It would need a bridge to cross the river, but the parking property could be valuable for redevelopment in a decade or so, assuming the water project stays funded to completion. If the Stockyard developers got onboard there could be a way found to run the streetcar on the surface and across the new river canal into the Stockyards area. The once obvious track up Commerce has been blocked by the Hotel Driver but maybe Joe T's would join in and help route tracks over to "Mule Alley Street" between Stockyards Station and Hyatt Place... Hey, the owners there might be interested in supporting the line. The south end of the line could be extended down Taylor Street into the basement of the Texas and Pacific Warehouse redevelopment (if that ever happens...) perhaps with a stop where someone is bound to redevelop the former City Hall property into hi-rise or semi-hi-rise in the future. The New and Revamped Convention Center is only three short blocks from this possible line at that point. Not sure what it would take to get the route under the UP lines and I-30 to the south, but if done the subway could emerge on the other side as a streetcar running down Jennings Street into the Southside. Lots of potential TOD development along the way to where the line could reverse directions at the north side of Magnolia and Jennings.

[txbornviking]

This project would be of significant size:

[[The listing required prospective buyers to develop the Property as a mixed-use project including office space and high-rise residential, to provide a lease of space with an option to purchase for a new library within the redeveloped property, and a minimum total capital investment of $100,000,000.00.]]

 

was anything mentioned about required time frame in which the developers must begin and complete the project?

[Austin55]

I don't have a subscription here but CoStar news did a write up on this: https://www.costar.c...h-texas-library

[FunkyTownTay]

They have 2 or 3 high-rises in their portfolio. Pretty modern looking stuff.

The mysterious owner of the company, Ken Dart, is also interesting to read about.

https://dartinterests.com/our-work/

[rriojas71]

They have 2 or 3 high-rises in their portfolio. Pretty modern looking stuff.

The mysterious owner of the company, Ken Dart, is also interesting to read about.

https://dartinterests.com/our-work/

If I was a betting man I would put money on it looking more like the Novel Rino or Novel South Capitol.  Something around that size because it is on 2 blocks where a high rise makes less sense.

[FunkyTownTay]

Ah, you're probably right. The Novel RIno had a construction cost of about $180M, so with them being required to invest at least $100M in the Fort Worth site, I guess we shouldn't get our hopes up for anything that'll change the skyline.