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Oncor/Old Electric Building Getting Revamp

Downtown Fort Worth National Bank Remodel

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#51 Austin55

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Posted 31 March 2022 - 04:55 PM

How much of that building is empty since Oncor moved into 777 main?

 

33% leased per the sale document



#52 steave

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Posted 31 March 2022 - 05:45 PM

I wonder it would be a good candidate for conversion to residential, then? The floors aren't as deep, and it's the shape of a T, so each apartment or condo unit could have plenty of windows.



#53 John T Roberts

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Posted 31 March 2022 - 05:46 PM

It could also be converted into another hotel.



#54 Austin55

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Posted 31 March 2022 - 05:51 PM

A hotel makes great sense given the proximity to the soon-to-be-expanded convention center, but I do worry we are starting to over-saturate that market. 



#55 Jeriat

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Posted 31 March 2022 - 06:21 PM

A hotel makes great sense given the proximity to the soon-to-be-expanded convention center, but I do worry we are starting to over-saturate that market. 

I would suggest apartments. 


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#56 John T Roberts

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Posted 31 March 2022 - 07:35 PM

Austin, you may be correct on that concern.



#57 John T Roberts

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Posted 22 May 2022 - 05:55 PM

The Subway in the building on Houston Street has closed.  I saw that when I was in Downtown today taking pictures of Deco969.  I was planning to walk around more, but and old friend called me and we talked for 30 minutes.  I parked on one of the concrete retaining walls in General Worth Square to visit.



#58 John T Roberts

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 09:38 PM

The nomination to the National Register of Historic Places was approved a couple of weeks ago.  The building now is officially designated at this level.  The listing in Architecture in Fort Worth has been updated.



#59 Austin55

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Posted 10 January 2023 - 11:53 AM

Sold and residential conversion coming.

https://www.dallasne...rt-worth-tower/

#60 Nitixope

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Posted 10 January 2023 - 12:50 PM

Sold and residential conversion coming.

https://www.dallasne...rt-worth-tower/

 

Thanks for finding this article Austin55.  Steve Brown has really been on top of it lately over at DMN.



#61 John T Roberts

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 04:31 PM

Jenny Rudolph with the Fort Worth Star-Telegram reports the building may have a pool on what is a lower level roof.  Here's the link to her story:

 

https://www.star-tel...e271058352.html



#62 Crestline

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 07:16 AM

From the article, they're planning 300 residential units in this building. It's like another Deco (also around 300 units) just fell out of the sky, sweet! (Deja vu!)



#63 John T Roberts

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 02:33 PM

New owner is probably going for the historic tax credits on this project.  Last year, the building was listed on the National Register of Historic Places.



#64 Crestline

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 04:17 PM

Whats the deal with parking in this building? I dont see any garage entrances on streetview

#65 Austin55

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 04:49 PM

There is not any. 



#66 John T Roberts

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 05:29 PM

Austin is correct.  However, the building at one time did have parking.  The building itself was built for the Fort Worth National Bank.  They were growing rapidly in the late 1940s and early 1950s, so even before they vacated their earlier building at 714 Main, they started construction of a parking garage at 711 Commerce.  The garage opened in 1950 and served both 714 Main when the bank was occupying it and for their new home at 115 W. 7th.  The garage is still standing, but when it was constructed, it didn't even occupy 1/2 of a block.  A 25 foot wide older building at the NE corner of 7th and Commerce was not originally a part of the garage.  Within a few years, that owner sold to the bank and a slight expansion of 25' x 95' was incorporated into the garage.  The bank moved to a bigger building in 1974, now The Tower, and I think the old properties were sold off piecemeal.  I'm not sure of the actual ownership, but the motor bank was located immediately across Main Street to the east.  That building was built in 1961 and the facade matched the bank building to the west.  On top of the motor bank was the ballroom to the Texas Hotel (now Hilton).  I could probably check the FW Star-Telegram archives to see who owned the building originally and when it sold to the hotel.  Getting back to the garage, that property was sold at some point to the developers of 777 Main (originally Continental Plaza), along with the northern half of that block.  When 777 Main was built, the garage was doubled in size to take over the entire block and it now serves as one of the garages to the tower.  So there is a brief history of this building's parking situation.



#67 Crestline

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 09:35 PM

Interesting! I wonder how the residents will park after the residential conversion is completed. I've been cheerleading fewer parking-spots-per-unit in residential construction, and now I guess I get to see how that plays out! 



#68 Austin55

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 10:10 PM

While I never lived downtown, I came very close. My company (also downtown) at the time gave us parking garage access cards, allowing us to come and go as we pleased in our cars. 

My plan when I was looking at a place downtown was to just leave my car in the work garage, which would have just been a few blocks from the apartment. I was told that several tenants of the building I looked at did something similar. 



#69 Nitixope

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 11:36 PM

Could 200 W 8th parking lot be redeveloped into a parking structure?

 

UJ7TFFf.png

 

What's the capacity of P1250?  I'm assuming this is mostly already utilized during the workday?  EDIT: appears to be 800 spaces.

VA4WOUc.png



#70 John T Roberts

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 09:04 AM

200 W. 8th is planned on being used as parking and support for the Sandman Signature Hotel.  The parking lot has been reduced in capacity by the code required exit stairway from the lower floors and by the porte-cochere on the west side of the building for hotel dropoff.  I'm sure the remainder of the lot will be used for hotel or valet parking. 



#71 Dylan

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Posted 14 January 2023 - 02:29 AM

I'm conflicted on this. I'm happy to see more apartments, but hate to see downtown lose even more office space.

 

Over the last decade, there have been a dozen or so office buildings converted into residential or hospitality, and only one new office building built to offset all that loss of office space.


-Dylan


#72 Crestline

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Posted 14 January 2023 - 08:05 AM

Crossing my fingers that this cycle works:

 

1) Conversion of obsolete office space into residential and hospitality leads to

2) Reduction of supply in office space leads to

3) Increased price for remaining supply of office space leads to

4) Developer interest in building additional supply of office space to exploit increased price leads to

5) Construction of modern office space.

6) ... time passes ...

7) Repeat step #1.



#73 steave

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Posted 14 January 2023 - 12:40 PM

That, or at least long-term the skyscrapers which really define the skyline and whose large floors don't really work great for residential can continue to be full of offices.

 

I'd hate for a bunch of modern office space in the form of 7 story buildings like Museum Place to result in City Center or 777 becoming vacant years from now. St. Louis has a large 1980s postmodernist style skyscraper that's been completely empty for years. We know what happens next, see Landmark Tower.



#74 Nitixope

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Posted 24 January 2023 - 03:34 PM

Sold and residential conversion coming.

https://www.dallasne...rt-worth-tower/

 

Another brief article popped up:

https://rejournals.c...-in-fort-worth/



#75 Crestline

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 09:06 AM

I'd hate for a bunch of modern office space in the form of 7 story buildings like Museum Place to result in City Center or 777 becoming vacant years from now. St. Louis has a large 1980s postmodernist style skyscraper that's been completely empty for years. We know what happens next, see Landmark Tower.

 

Makes me wonder if it's a fault of 1980's postmodernist-style skyscrapers that they're just not amenable to change-of-use. Were their architects so shortsighted that they couldn't imagine the buildings becoming obsolete for office use, and then facing conversion to another use, or implosion? What design changes, if any, would have saved Landmark Tower from implosion in favor of residential conversion?



#76 John T Roberts

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 10:39 AM

From what I have been told by people at XTO, nothing could have been done to save the Landmark Tower.  It had major structural deficiencies due to the fact that it was partially completed and opened and the construction resumed with the addition of two more floors and the world's largest revolving clock placed on top, the bank lobby was more or less column free, the aluminum facade was failing and had to be replaced, the former owner gutted all of the building systems, and it was hit and damaged by the 2000 tornado.   These issues were so great that even a company like XTO with deep pockets couldn't save the building from implosion.  



#77 JBB

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 10:48 AM

Maybe my memory is fuzzy, but wasn't there also some sort of major alteration that was going to be needed for stairwells in the building for it to ever be used again?  I may be mixing up two different buildings.
 

Makes me wonder if it's a fault of 1980's postmodernist-style skyscrapers that they're just not amenable to change-of-use. Were their architects so shortsighted that they couldn't imagine the buildings becoming obsolete for office use, and then facing conversion to another use, or implosion? What design changes, if any, would have saved Landmark Tower from implosion in favor of residential conversion?


Not to split hairs, but there was nothing 1980s postmodern about Landmark. It was completed as it stood when demolished in the late 50s, but I get the point you're making.



#78 John T Roberts

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 11:46 AM

Yes, the 31 story fire escape on the exterior of the building was going to either be brought inside, or rebuilt as a structural element and fully enclosed within the envelope of the building.  It would also have to be sprinkled and fireproofed.  Since I don't know all of the details, I can't say exactly what was going to happen to the other stair that was already inside of the skyscraper. 



#79 Urbndwlr

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 01:59 PM

 

I'd hate for a bunch of modern office space in the form of 7 story buildings like Museum Place to result in City Center or 777 becoming vacant years from now. St. Louis has a large 1980s postmodernist style skyscraper that's been completely empty for years. We know what happens next, see Landmark Tower.

 

Makes me wonder if it's a fault of 1980's postmodernist-style skyscrapers that they're just not amenable to change-of-use. Were their architects so shortsighted that they couldn't imagine the buildings becoming obsolete for office use, and then facing conversion to another use, or implosion? What design changes, if any, would have saved Landmark Tower from implosion in favor of residential conversion?

 

Man, i think its pretty unusual for a developer and therefore their architect to construct a building that is deliberately adaptable to a different use several decades in the future.  I recently saw an article about a mass timber building somewhere and the architect said that structure (as opposed to wood or metal stud walls) is that the floor could be reconfigured for other uses decades in the future. 

I think if it were a zero cost proposition to design allowing likely adaptability, but would be really hard to justify likely design compromises or additional costs because of a potential reuse for an undefined other use in say 40+ years.  

But yes, I think its wise for highrise developers/architects to at a minimum consider this and make it adaptable whenever possible but would be a gift to future generations and maybe enable their creation to last longer.



#80 arch-image

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 07:34 PM

From what I have been told by people at XTO, nothing could have been done to save the Landmark Tower.  It had major structural deficiencies due to the fact that it was partially completed and opened and the construction resumed with the addition of two more floors and the world's largest revolving clock placed on top, the bank lobby was more or less column free, the aluminum facade was failing and had to be replaced, the former owner gutted all of the building systems, and it was hit and damaged by the 2000 tornado.   These issues were so great that even a company like XTO with deep pockets couldn't save the building from implosion.  

That's interesting John. I always wondered why the imploded it. I did figure the big tornado was part of it. I was fortunate enough to photograph it from a nearby parking garage rooftop, was pretty cool until the dust cloud hit lol. As many of these as I Have seen it still amazes me the precision they can bring buildings like this down. The most impressive will always be Orlando's old city hall ass the new one was a mere 4' away from the old one. No damage at all. Filmed and used as the opening in Lethal Weapon 3. 



#81 Nitixope

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Posted 26 January 2023 - 02:20 AM

I was at Landmark implosion too, at street level.

One of my favorite implosion videos was First Baptist Dallas when they tore down building(s) to make room for their expansion and they shot an awesome video revealing the original church that had been nestled in by the other building. Ill try to find the video with the dramatic music but the sun shining on the old church as the dust settles still moves me when I watch this a dozen years later.



#82 John T Roberts

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Posted 26 January 2023 - 08:48 AM

I also attended the Landmark Tower implosion, and my photographs are still here on this website.



#83 JBB

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Posted 26 January 2023 - 09:11 AM

I stood next to city hall on Monroe Street between 10th and Texas.  It gave a nice head on view.  I believe the official viewing area was just to the north next to the federal building.  I didn't get any photos or video since the weather was so terrible and that was pre-smart phone.



#84 John T Roberts

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Posted 26 January 2023 - 10:13 AM

Since Architecture in Fort Worth was a friend of XTO, I was able to ask and be allowed into the official viewing area.  I took my old DSLR, which at the time was sophisticated enough to shoot 5 frames per second. 



#85 youngalum

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Posted 26 January 2023 - 12:54 PM

 

From what I have been told by people at XTO, nothing could have been done to save the Landmark Tower.  It had major structural deficiencies due to the fact that it was partially completed and opened and the construction resumed with the addition of two more floors and the world's largest revolving clock placed on top, the bank lobby was more or less column free, the aluminum facade was failing and had to be replaced, the former owner gutted all of the building systems, and it was hit and damaged by the 2000 tornado.   These issues were so great that even a company like XTO with deep pockets couldn't save the building from implosion.  

That's interesting John. I always wondered why the imploded it. I did figure the big tornado was part of it. I was fortunate enough to photograph it from a nearby parking garage rooftop, was pretty cool until the dust cloud hit lol. As many of these as I Have seen it still amazes me the precision they can bring buildings like this down. The most impressive will always be Orlando's old city hall ass the new one was a mere 4' away from the old one. No damage at all. Filmed and used as the opening in Lethal Weapon 3. 

 

It did blow out windows in the new city hall

https://www.google.c...vid:ZOK8D02RkgQ







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