609 replies to this topic

[Jeriat]

 

Now I believe the only remaining conspicuous historical structure around downtown needing a facelift is the public market building

Now what do you do with THAT? 

At least with the Warehouse and its location, residential development with retail makes the most sense. 

The Public Market is practically under two overpasses, somewhat disconnected from downtown and the Near Southside.

[johnfwd]

Maybe it can be moved to another location, then rehabilitated for its historical value?  I certainly wouldn't want it demolished.

[Doohickie]

 

 

Now I believe the only remaining conspicuous historical structure around downtown needing a facelift is the public market building

Now what do you do with THAT? 

At least with the Warehouse and its location, residential development with retail makes the most sense. 

The Public Market is practically under two overpasses, somewhat disconnected from downtown and the Near Southside.

 

 

I've noted that in the past.  It's just not connected to.... anything.

[Jeriat]

Maybe it can be moved to another location, then rehabilitated for its historical value?  I certainly wouldn't want it demolished.

I was really phrasing (or trying to phrase) my question as a good challenge.

First thing that came to mind was to convert it into a club or some kind of entertainment venue.

Its location could actually be a factor in creating something out of the box...

[CFerguson]

Any news on T&P Warehouse?

[Austin55]

Here's the article in Fort Worth Business regarding the project.

 

http://www.fortworth...c3095cfee2.html

 

This article mentioned Cleopatra Cleopatra would need to show the TIF board financial documents before December 14th last year. I never heard anything about this happening. 

 

Fast forward to now, have a look at this item of the TIF meeting agenda, set for the 15th of this month. 

 

 

Discussion and consideration of a resolution authorizing termination of the TIF Development Agreement between Tax Increment Reinvestment Zone Number Eight and Cleopatra Investments, Inc. for the redevelopment of the T&P Warehouse as amended.

[John T Roberts]

Austin, I'm glad that you found this.  Thanks for posting.

[johnfwd]

Probably a naïve question:  Does this mean the property owner is unable or unwilling to re-develop their property? 

[youngalum]

She isn't ever going to redevelop the property if she isn't forced too.  She is using it as a tax write-off and nothing more.

[johnfwd]

She isn't ever going to redevelop the property if she isn't forced too.  She is using it as a tax write-off and nothing more.

 

I've posted my thoughts before and I'll say again till blue in the face:  The city, or downtown stakeholders themselves, need to do something here.  I know property ownership is sacrosanct in Texas, but this isn't just a small building in need of repairs inconspicuously located in the CBD.  Here we have a giant dilapidated monstrosity that's visible to all who live, work, and visit downtown, and undoubtedly has been and will continue to be an embarrassment.  It is also a public safety hazard.  The city sued the property owner a few years ago but the suit was dismissed, for some reason unbeknownst to me.  Renewed action must be taken!

[JBB]

Don't worry guys. After I win the Powerball jackpot tonight, I'm gonna buy the building and move into it. I'll have you all over for a house warming.

[Big Frog II]

I would terminate any agreement between the city and this knucklehead.  I would then have the city code officers go after her with every law/rule/violation that this building is breaking.  She has led the city on one wild goose chase after another.  She is not going to ever do anything with this building.  She is beneath contempt.

[Doohickie]

This makes me sad. 

[Mr_Brightside526]

This may be repetitious: http://www.star-tele...le54991050.html

 

Anyone know the results of the meeting?

[johnfwd]

S-T article states that the parties are to mediate in 45 days.  Whether the property owner will mediate in good faith or is just stalling for time, the reaction of the city afterward may give us a clue as to the outcome.

[Big Frog II]

Cleopatra has owned this build for nearly 20 years, and has done nothing.  The city's patience should have worn out by now.  In fact it should have worn out about 10 year ago.  Nothing is going to get done as long as the ownership remains the same.

[johnfwd]

Agreed.  Taking forceful action is needed here.  Incidentally, if it sounds like I've been unduly picking on the condition of this historical building in my past posts it's mainly to stress the dire need for restoration.  It was a beautifully designed and built building in the 1930s and, with good ownership and a reputable contractor, can be so again.

[Big Frog II]

S-T article states that the parties are to mediate in 45 days.  Whether the property owner will mediate in good faith or is just stalling for time, the reaction of the city afterward may give us a clue as to the outcome.

Well, aren't the 45 days up?  

 

Where's the plan, where's the plan? (Borrowed from the Music Man.)

[Austin55]

 

S-T article states that the parties are to mediate in 45 days.  Whether the property owner will mediate in good faith or is just stalling for time, the reaction of the city afterward may give us a clue as to the outcome.

Well, aren't the 45 days up?  

 

Where's the plan, where's the plan? (Borrowed from the Music Man.)

 

 

 

TIF 8 has a meeting tomorrow, we should know more. Agenda.

 

 

A. Update on T&P Warehouse project mediation and related TIF expenditures (Robert Sturns, Director, Economic Development)

[Big Frog II]

 

 

S-T article states that the parties are to mediate in 45 days.  Whether the property owner will mediate in good faith or is just stalling for time, the reaction of the city afterward may give us a clue as to the outcome.

Well, aren't the 45 days up?  

 

Where's the plan, where's the plan? (Borrowed from the Music Man.)

 

 

 

TIF 8 has a meeting tomorrow, we should know more. Agenda.

 

 

A. Update on T&P Warehouse project mediation and related TIF expenditures (Robert Sturns, Director, Economic Development)

 

Did anything ever come out of the meeting regarding this project.

[JBB]

Mediation went nowhere: http://www.star-tele...le76098732.html

Maybe with the complete cancellation of the TIF funding, the city will be more aggressive with pushing code violations. Knowing that TIF money is available and no longer tied to the current owner might make the building more attractive for a buyer.

[jefffwd]

There is nothing good about that building!  Bring in the wrecking ball and put up somthing nice looking!  This has gone on far too long!  Dallas would not allow this to happen.  FW City Council needs to grow a spine and take some action.  I do not care if it is "historic" it is an eyesore that you see from 30 when entering FW.  Ya know FW is a little nuts when it comes to preservation.   

[Jeriat]

There is nothing good about that building!  Bring in the wrecking ball and put up somthing nice looking!  This has gone on far too long!  Dallas would not allow this to happen.  FW City Council needs to grow a spine and take some action.  I do not care if it is "historic" it is an eyesore that you see from 30 when entering FW.  Ya know FW is a little nuts when it comes to preservation.   

 

You forgot the Courier font... 

[JBB]

Yes, Dallas would never allow a massive, historic structure left for dead be beautifully restored into a neighborhood revitalizing masterpiece!

[Big Frog II]

This lady will never complete this building.  It is time to revoke her TIF money and have the city code people do their work.  She needs to sell and stay out of Fort Worth.  Having owned this building for 18-19 years is long enough to show she cannot and will not get the job done.

[johnfwd]

This lady will never complete this building.  It is time to revoke her TIF money and have the city code people do their work.  She needs to sell and stay out of Fort Worth.  Having owned this building for 18-19 years is long enough to show she cannot and will not get the job done.

Good point.  But I think renewed pressure on the City Council is needed here.  if downtown stakeholders signed a petition demanding action?  

[johnfwd]

This lady will never complete this building.  It is time to revoke her TIF money and have the city code people do their work.  She needs to sell and stay out of Fort Worth.  Having owned this building for 18-19 years is long enough to show she cannot and will not get the job done.

 

Well, whadyuhknow!  Either City Council members finally fessed up to the fact that this re-development project is going nowhere or they read this Forum.  Way to go, Big Frog II!

 

http://www.fortworth...982dffe618.html

[Big Frog II]

If they should ever come back to reapply for TIF money, the answer should be a simple NO!.  Only new ownership would have a chance at a new TIF commitment.

 

Now is the time for the city code enforcers to do their job.

[fortworthhorn]

If they should ever come back to reapply for TIF money, the answer should be a simple NO!.  Only new ownership would have a chance at a new TIF commitment.

 

Now is the time for the city code enforcers to do their job.

Not sure who was head of the Lancaster TIF board in 2007, but this does not make that board/the City look good.  I know councilman Jordan was elected in 2005, but not sure if he was head of that TIF in 2007 when the original agreement was made.

[JBB]

As opposed to the Cabela's TIF, I would say this one doesn't look all that bad.  At least it fit the spirit of a TIF to begin with.

[Austin55]

There's a TIF meeting monday. http://fortworthtexa...0160516TIF8.pdf

 

 

A. Update on T&P Warehouse project mediation and Agreement termination (Michael Hennig, Development Coordinator) B. Update on financial position of the Lancaster Corridor TIF and capacity to support future projects (Michael Hennig, Development Coordinator)

[AndyN]

I noticed when I drove by on Tuesday that a crew was pumping water out of the basement.

[Austin55]

Probably to keep a trespasser from drowning and ending up in the news like the silos did recently.

[johnfwd]

I've noticed they do the pumping periodically, as the basement fills with rain water.  Aside from dealing with personal injury liability risks, I'm guessing as a non-structural engineer lay person the owner is concerned about further deterioration of the structure (shows she really truly cares!)

[Volare]

Everyone is still holding their breath, right?

[JBB]

I'm not holding my breath for this owner to get it done, but as Pinnacle gets closer to completion and other projects on the street start coming together, the warehouse will approach a tipping point where selling to a developer that can get it done will be inevitable.

[Big Frog II]

Everyone is still holding their breath, right?

We did and passed out.

[arch-image]

My understanding is they pulled all of the TIF money and Tax Credits ... does anyone know for sure, I googled it but came up empty ... which surprised me. I understood they puled it all but told them they could re-apply although I do not believe they would ever get the city to go with them again. 

[Austin55]

My understanding is they pulled all of the TIF money and Tax Credits ... does anyone know for sure, I googled it but came up empty ... which surprised me. I understood they puled it all but told them they could re-apply although I do not believe they would ever get the city to go with them again. 

I believe this is the most recent news on that - 

 

http://www.fortworth...982dffe618.html

[John T Roberts]

Arch-image, welcome to the forum.  The information in the article that Austin55 posted is the latest that I have heard.

[John T Roberts]

The City of Fort Worth Code Compliance Department is bringing a case before the Historic and Cultural Landmarks Commission on Monday to determine if the Texas and Pacific Warehouse can be rehabilitated.  The PDF file is lengthy, but has interior photographs and drawings.  This link will only be valid for a few days.

 

http://fortworthtexa.../Individual.pdf

 

Within that report is an evaluation on the criteria for designation of the building.  Remember I stated that Will Rogers may be the most important historic building in the city?  Well, it appears the Texas and Pacific Warehouse meets all 10 of the 10 criteria.

[Austin55]

Aw man, the tree is gone? May as well just bring the whole thing down then. 

For real, what does this mean for the future of the building? A quick read through seems to imply this is still the plan. Am I correct in assuming that? 

[rriojas71]

Aw man, the tree is gone? May as well just bring the whole thing down then. 
For real, what does this mean for the future of the building? A quick read through seems to imply this is still the plan. Am I correct in assuming that?

If those future plans come to fruition then I would be more than happy for something that classy. This could become the next Montgomery Plaza, but with more of a Blvd feel to it. I love it and I'd be super excited to see it happen somehow.

However, my enthusiasm quickly exhausted itself with the renderings for the ridiculous phase 2 structure. Could anything be more tacky? I think they are trying to play off the Spring Palace which burned down and was where the Post Office is now, but this atrocity cannot see the light of day. It looks like someone left a section of Winstar casino behind the T&P Warehouse.

[johnfwd]

Holes in the roof  Evidence of excessive moisture within the roof assembly  Parapet deterioration  Openings between roof and parapet wall  Fire-damaged timber structure  Deteriorated original timber floor  Excessive standing water in the basement  Deteriorated/damaged windows  Missing windows  Deteriorated canopy  Openings in the floor  Spalling concrete and corrosion of reinforcement  Exterior masonry deterioration  Extensive graffiti on historic masonry...

 

[Excerpted from the Commission staff report, Post #241]

 

​​And the Code Compliance Department provides the Commission staff with photographs of the deterioration.  As I see it, if this were a building without historic significance, it would have been demolished long ago.  The city's Building Standards Commission would have ordered the owner to actively cure within a specified period of time, after which, if not done, the structure would be razed...at the owner's expense.

 

But the Historic and Cultural Landmarks Commission staff recommends rehabilitation.  So, the Commission will report its recommendation to the City Council...then, what?

 

No more TIF favors from the city. No lawsuit against the property owner, I don't believe (unless the last one was dismissed without prejudice).  But the city can further inspire the property owner to take action because of the building's historical value (it's not as if the property owner hasn't had a few years to be inspired!).  Sounds like we're back to square one.  Vacant.

[John T Roberts]

The Code Compliance Department has brought this case to the Landmarks Commission to determine if the building has lost its integrity and historic character, and if they can demolish the building. 

 

You are correct in your assumption that the city would have demolished the building years ago.  However, as determined by City Staff, it is one of the extremely few buildings that meet all 10 criteria for historic designation, and is currently designated as a City of Fort Worth Highly Significant Endangered Landmark.  I believe that if the Landmarks Commission rules that it has not lost its historic character and integrity, then that recommendation will end there, unless the Code Compliance Department wishes to appeal that decision.  If they rule that it has lost its character and integrity, I also think the city is then permitted to demolish the building. 

 

I do agree with you that the city should not grant any more breaks or concessions to the current owner, and they should be forced to sell the building to someone who can rehabilitate it.

[JBB]

Am I understanding correctly: code enforcement didn't issue a single violation for well over a decade?

 

And in completely random news, I grew up with one of the code enforcement officers listed in the report.  

 

Back to the issue at hand, I suspect that this won't necessarily result in instant action, but it's a step in getting the ball rolling.  If the current owner realizes that the possibility of city assistance is gone and there is a concerted effort to enforce code, the building will keep getting more attractive to sell.

[John T Roberts]

JBB, you are probably right.

[Volare]

If this building were on the north end of downtown instead of the south, it would have already been seized by eminent domain. Is there no way we could extend a canal from the river to here? 

[Austin55]

I'm sure the delays on the Hemphill-Lamar tunnel haven't helped, if that really is such a big issue holding back anything.

[John T Roberts]

I wasn't at today's Historic and Cultural Landmarks Commission Meeting, but I'm hearing that the owner of the warehouse did not show up and the commission voted to continue the case until next month to make sure that they received the notification of the meeting.