57 replies to this topic

[801hme]

I was looking for info on the old Zoo rides and found this website about the Forest Park Miniature Railroad, which I did not know was it's proper name. There are pretty in-depth stories of it's history & construction.


http://www.fpmt.us/index.htm

[Saginaw]

Back in the '70s, whenever I wanted to go to the Zoo (which was always on a Sunday), I had a "ritual" of sorts. First, I would ride the rides in the amusement park. Next, I would want to walk through the Zoo, beginning from the front (I believe where the mountain goats were) and working my way to the herpetarium at the end (which I called the "snake house"). But before my Mom and I would leave, I wanted to end my visit with a ride on the miniature train.

It was just one of those experiences that entrances a young mind and soul. Maybe it was the somewhat hypnotic sound of the wheels rolling over the rails, or the fascination of travelling high (it looked high to me!) over the Trinity on the trestle. I did enjoy passing by the crossings and hearing the miniature warning signals. I thought it was cool seeing the cars that had to stop and let us by, and stopping at the little snack bar in Trinity Park. And I really liked the end of the trip, when the train pulled into the long shed with the dim lights before stopping at it's original departure spot. It was like...I dunno....just neat.

I have such fond memories of the miniature train at Forest Park. Thanks for posting this, 801hme!


--Saginaw

[safly]

One day I will make the time to ride that deal. It is always a wonderful welcoming sight along my walk/jog path to the river. The kids and grown ups are always smiling and waiving to me and other park pedestrians crossin the rail near that turn-around. Reminds me of the Brackenridge Park kiddie train in SA, near that Zoo and Museums. Good times.

[LocalYokel]

When I was a kid, the train in Forest Park was known to us all as "The Five Mile Train". Don't know if it was from advertising or what, but to this day I still hear people call it that.

I lived in San Antonio in the 80's while going to college, and we enjoyed the Brackenridge train, although it seemed somewhat dilapidated compared to our memories of the Ft. Worth train. It was a rather famous mini train, having been featured heavily in the news for being quite literally held up by train robbers who relieved the passengers of their wallets and cash. One of the last train robberies on record

http://www.mysananto....2e192dc12.html

[Giraffe]

The Saturday, 5 July 2008 edition of the _Fort Worth Star-Telegram_ has a story about the Forest Park Miniature Railroad. It includes many of the details posted here, and lists some of the changes in the bridges and track layout over the years. Quite impressive!

The last time I rode that train (well over 20 years ago), it looked as though every squirrel for 10 miles around had learned to run towards the train as it chugged through Forest Park and beg for handouts from the riders. I counted well over 30 of those little daylight robbers!

[redblock]

Here is an article/video on the 60th birthday of the Forest Park Miniature Train.

https://www.wfaa.com...67-c6859b082e48

[johnfwd]

I rode the train when I was a kid and was probably helped aboard by Bill Hames.  Today I get waves from the kids whenever my bicycle is running parallel to it on the Trails.

 

I hope this family enterprise doesn't end when the last of the Hames family passes on.  Maybe the city would take it over then.  The train should be especially popular now that a children's playground has been constructed at the park.

[Stadtplan]

FW Report Article: Mr. Hames having health issues and the miniature train has also been out of operation:

https://fortworthrep...X_dH8ZdmOLcf29E

[johnfwd]

Children are most often what makes tourism.  Parents would most likely pass up a tourist spot like Forest Park but for their kids wanting to enjoy the playgrounds.  So it is with the miniature train.  I wholeheartedly agree with the article's headline that the city should keep this tradition chugging along.  City should think about those tourist dollars, too.

[Stadtplan]

Could the zoo operate it and extend it over to the front entrance? Seems like a logical option considering they already have a miniature railroad as well as a full time maintenance staff.

[Jamie]

Could the zoo operate it and extend it over to the front entrance? Seems like a logical option considering they already have a miniature railroad as well as a full time maintenance staff.

It originally terminated next to the front entrance of the zoo when it was on the University side. 

[lcbrownz]

FW Report Article: Mr. Hames having health issues and the miniature train has also been out of operation:

https://fortworthrep...X_dH8ZdmOLcf29E

If Bill Hames started the Texas & Pacific 5-mile miniature train ride in 1959, who created the previous shorter Santa Fe Texas Chief train ride that started during the early 1950s? I have a 1955 photo of it.

[lcbrownz]

The Hames Company has been given until December to reopen the train ride or the city will cancel its contract.

[txbornviking]

The Hames Company has been given until December to reopen the train ride or the city will cancel its contract.

 

hmmm interesting.

 

Icbrownz can you share your source on this? and if the contract is cancelled, does that mean the city takes over operation or then has to begin a bid process to find an operator?

The reason I ask, back on Oct 15 I wrote my city councilmember asking about the train and what, if anything, the city was doing to get it back up and running. As the Fort Worth Report reported the city or operator can supposedly end the contract with a six-month written notice but as of June the city was saying they had no current plans to end the contract.

 

The contract says the train is supposed to run every weekend weather permitting.

 

While I can have tremendous empathy for the elderly gentlemen who runs the train and has the contract, at the same time if his private company cannot uphold it's contract one additional concern I have is at what point will the lack of operations or maintenance result in a train that is unable to reopen? 

 

Basically my councilmembers reply boiled down to "there are safety issues involved with the bridge and several entities are working together to bring back the train." (an answer which honestly brings up more worrying questions than it actually answered.)

[Austin55]

It's on today's council worksession agenda,

 

https://fortworthgov...15-26570B1BBB05

[JBB]

https://fortworthrep...13-deadline/

 

https://www.wfaa.com...df-e20266eca2f3

[Stadtplan]

According to the contract, it appears at one point in time there was another operator interested in the gig with the city.  

 

DISCUSSION:

The current license agreement between the City of Fort Worth and Forest Park Rides, Inc., ( FPR) to

operate a miniature train ride within Forest and Trinity Parks expired on July 23, 2006. FPR has a

main station located off Colonial Parkway in Forest Park and from there the train goes through Trinity

Park. The current vendor, FPR, has been operating continually for 48 years since 1958.

Due to expressed interest from another vendor, a Request for Proposal ( RFP) was issued on June 6,

2006, to operate a miniature train ride as an exclusive concession service for the Parks and

Community Services Department ( PACSD). A pre- submittal conference was held June 14, 2006, with

two potential proposers attending. On June 22, 2006, two proposals were received, one from the

current operator, Forest Park Rides, Incorporated and the other from Narrow Gauge Supply,

Incorporated ( NGS).

 

 

I looked this up online:

Narrow Gauge Supply Inc

Desoto, TX 75115

Categorized under Freight or Passenger Train Cars and Equipment.

 

It would appear that the licensee (operator) agrees to "providing a miniature train ride and food and beverage concessions for the enjoyment of the public within Forest Park and Trinity Park" and keeping up with the costs of maintaining the premises at the main train station and area within 5' of the tracks, but I don't see where the operator would have anything to do with maintaining the track itself or the bridge so that must be on the city?  Also interesting is in 2006 is says, "FPR currently pays the City approximately $35,000 per year. This amount should increase under the new agreement when proposed improvements to the station area and concession stands are completed."  So let's say average fare was $6.50 that would be $35,000 / $6.50 = 5,385 rides just to break even on the license fee not to mention paying the engineer and covering insurance and other overhead.  That would be around 104 riders per week minimum.  I don't see how this financially makes sense anymore unless someone else just starts over fresh.  

[JBB]

I would assume "area within 5' of the tracks" includes the track and bridges.  Or at the very least, the track.

[Stadtplan]

I believe they are referring to picking up trash and janitorial not track repairs but I could be wrong. It wasnt clear when I skimmed the agreement.

[Stadtplan]

If FPR defaults by year end, I wouldn't mind seeing the miniature train tracks used for train track pedal cars, maybe they have a single-wide front/back configuration.  That would be fun to do before or after the zoo visit.  They have pedal assist electric motor versions too.

 

https://www.railexplorers.net/

 

 

[Austin55]

Seems Austin is having similiar issues: https://communityimp...r-another-year/

[Stadtplan]

Seems Austin is having similiar issues: https://communityimp...r-another-year/

Sounds very similar. Does anyone know if FPR uses 20 or 24 inch rail?

[Crestline]

Does the city own the track and bridge, and license their operation out to FPR, Inc.? Or does FPR, Inc. own them?

[JBB]

My understanding is the vendor owns all of the equipment and the city just leases the space.

[johnfwd]

Aside from who owns and who leases, I have an idea for the future course of the train.  Of course, the tracks at present run through the park, over the river bridge, then back to the park.  Maybe a total mile both ways?   As a kid, I remember being excited by the fact that I was riding on a miniature train. My concept is to increase the length of the train ride and add to the trees-and-river scenery with miniature stores, houses, and a lighted train crossing along the way (like the toy train track sets).  Maybe, too, running the train at night with festive lights along the way.

 

This idea for embellishing the Forest Park ride came from my memory of the exciting ride on the Leonard's Toyland Train at Christmas time.

[Doohickie]

I like that idea.  If a new operator comes in, they may be interested in updating the train.  Possibly could find a sponsor that could pay for updated "scenery" along the tracks.  Or perhaps there could be temporary scenery for different holidays (Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, and the summer patriotic holidays).  Maybe get a different corporation to sponsor each holiday.  It could spur enough interest in the train to run it year round (or nearly so... maybe shut down between Christmas and Easter).

[johnfwd]

I like that idea.  If a new operator comes in, they may be interested in updating the train.  Possibly could find a sponsor that could pay for updated "scenery" along the tracks.  Or perhaps there could be temporary scenery for different holidays (Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, and the summer patriotic holidays).  Maybe get a different corporation to sponsor each holiday.  It could spur enough interest in the train to run it year round (or nearly so... maybe shut down between Christmas and Easter).

We imagine things like this.  Of course, it takes someone with initiative and money, an entrepreneur with imagination.  Doesn't the city realize what a tourist attraction this would be, not to mention a profitable enterprise?

[txbornviking]

the miniature train in Stanley Park in Vancouver seems to do/have a near holiday light overlay

 

https://stanleyparkv...ght-nights.html

 

https://www.youtube.... park christmas

[Austin55]

Star-T reporting has an update on the train. 

https://www.star-tel...e270815372.html

[Stadtplan]

Were they eavesdropping on our Forum lunch at Benitos?

Its interesting the article says she showed the city $250k of invoices. Doesnt say the city was paying for it though?

[txbornviking]

new owners for the Forest Park Miniature Train... will they adhere to the March 23 extension to resume operations received last October or ask for their own extension?

 

https://fortworthrep...iniature-train/

[Doohickie]

I think it was inevitable and the right move.

[JBB]

They seem to be moving in the right direction.  If you have any doubt that this is a delicate game, look at how the city of Austin has handled a similar situation:

 

https://www.kut.org/...park-mini-train

[Stadtplan]

What's amazing is that Tally Amusements exists here in 817 (Haslet) and at the scale of operation and years of existence, 200 years.  They have some pretty bad google reviews, some people complaining about prices, fees others about safety but it's one of those businesses where people want an avenue to vent and complain but not necessary compliment a carnival ride operator.  The one upside is they likely have the maintenance and operations staff to make this happen.  How they run their business and the reception of the general public, time will tell but opening it back up is a good step in the right direction.  One of the Google local guides said this of one of his transaction "So there is a $3 self serve fee, even on cash transactions."  and shows what appears to be a credit card accepting device. Another review said of their carnival operations "Note: Talley Amusement only takes cash, but does provide an ATM. The ATM takes a $5 fee."  I doubt they'll have an ATM at the current depot location but will be interesting to see what they come up with for processing payments or if they go cash only.

 

https://talleyamusements.com/

Pretty good sized operation if this is accurate:

https://www.zoominfo...s-inc/353930505

118 Employees

Revenue: $22.7M

 

As seen on the previous operator's website for the train, "Only CASH is accepted.  We do not accept credit or debit cards or personal checks."  That's always a bit of a head-scratcher for me sort of like Joe T's.  Are you doing this for tax evasion purposes or is it the transaction fees you don't want to pay, if so just pass it on to the customer 3% or whatever but in this day and age not accepting other forms of payment is not only annoying but super sketchy, especially if there's no ATM within walking distance.  You technically don't need power to do card transactions through a tablet / square as long as you keep the tablet charged and use cell signal for processing.

[Stadtplan]

Supply chains are pushing back the reopening of Fort Worths Forest Park mini train BY HARRISON MANTAS

https://www.star-tel...=hpdigest_local

[Austin55]

Nothing ever happens on time in Fort Worth

[JBB]

While I would typically agree with that, this one had no chance of making those original deadlines.  I don't think anyone really knew the severity of this situation.

[Volare]

Nothing ever happens on time in Fort Worth

Other than the purchase of Pier 1 tower for a new city hall. That happens in 3 weeks (and then costs triple what they paid for the building in the long run).

[Stadtplan]

Here's some progress shots of the improvements to the Forest Park Miniature Railroad.  So is it up and running again?  When I was over here this evening, everything was locked up, but I noticed gravel on the tracks near the bridge which makes me think they are still working on it.

 

Here's a newly rebuilt turnaround, seen with fresh gravel:

 

Closeup of the track work done on the turnaround:

 

This series of shipping containers is the barn where they house the trains.  I didn't get a shot of the side, but there are several containers lined up end-to-end and the tracks run right through them:

 

Siding from the barn connecting to the main line:

 

Pavilion repainted / freshened-up.  Here's what it looked like before: https://goo.gl/maps/zFzJ1jwGyCJkBNpg7

 

I wonder when the last time this was inspected and by whom?

[JBB]

Not open yet.  They announced an end of June opening on Facebook a couple of weeks ago.

[steave]

I guess when it was built safety rules didn't require making that bridge, you know, not dangerous?

[txbornviking]

Sunday my family visited the zoo and you could see folks working on the railbed along the station

[Stadtplan]

I looked back at streetviews at the turnaround and they really added a ton of gravel.  I guess it needed to come up to level with the rest of the track?  Interesting how the gravel probably just settles in with some use of the train on it.  https://goo.gl/maps/UyPP4LPua34xQAgt8

 

(By the way, that wasn't me parked next to the tracks, I was on my bike Saturday at that point, but I did park in the lot.  I think that car was zoo parking over-overflow as I saw them hop out of another car and jump in and take off while I was photographing.  I assume when the main lot fills and the archery fields fill, they start filling Forest Park.  They will probably need to be careful parking that close to the tracks once it opens though.  I guess they'd need a tow truck to move cars back if push came to shove.  I should have gotten a closer look but it appears that car is nosed right up to the tracks.)

 

 

I also thought it was interesting how they secure the track to the tie.  It appears to be some sort of lag bolt with a heavy duty fender washer.  I didn't get a close-up of the hardware but zoomed in a little bit here and lightened up the shadows a notch.

 

 

[Doohickie]

I guess when it was built safety rules didn't require making that bridge, you know, not dangerous?

 

You haven't lived until you've crossed that bridge after imbibing a few adult beverages.  The uneven spacing of the ties makes the crossing... interesting.

 

 

Allegedly.

[Austin55]

New deadline: September 1: https://www.fortwort...mini-train-july

[txbornviking]

There needs to be fines associated with the ever slipping deadline, everyone a breach of the agreed contract with the city.

[JBB]

While I would normally agree, this required a complete turnover in management and a lot of money.  The equipment was in terrible condition and a ton of visible progress has been made.  I would understand the frustration if there was total inaction, but I feel like the benefit of the doubt is well-warranted here.

[Doohickie]

While I would normally agree, this required a complete turnover in management and a lot of money.  The equipment was in terrible condition and a ton of visible progress has been made.  I would understand the frustration if there was total inaction, but I feel like the benefit of the doubt is well-warranted here.

Also:  Better to do it right than to do it fast.

[Stadtplan]

I noticed more track improvements during my bike ride this past weekend.  Included rebuilding the crossings at the bike paths.  

[Stadtplan]

 

I wonder when the last time this was inspected and by whom?

 

I wonder what specs were used to design this bridge and does it still meet modern standards for this sort of use?  I probably wasn't supposed to be on it but I did notice some lateral movement which struck me as odd / rickety.