294 replies to this topic

[JBB]

I decided to start a new topic since this has changed significantly from an expansion of the law school. Announcement today.

https://fortworthrep...own-fort-worth/

There is no timeline in this article. This is huge news to say the least.

[Doohickie]

[Randall]

My niece Councilwoman Beck, graduated from A&M Law in DTFW. I’m sure she is proud of this expansion for A&M and Fort Worth.

[elpingüino]

There is no timeline in this article. This is huge news to say the least.

Star-Telegram says they'll break ground in mid/late 2022 and the first two buildings will open a year later. https://www.star-tel...e255671946.html

[apearson28]

Always great to see three surface parking lots (from what I can tell) eliminated! 

[John T Roberts]

I guess I will need to add the current building to the list of structures designed to have more floors added, but the additions never occurred, and the building was demolished at the initial construction height.  Of course, this will happen when it is demolished.

[Doohickie]

I would think the law school building will be demolished after the other two buildings are erected.  Move the law school temporarily into one of the new buildings while the law school building is rebuilt.

[JBB]

That's the plan according to the first article.

[txbornviking]

am I wrong in reading this as showing Calhoun being closed between 13th and 16th street? as well as 13th, 14th, 15th, and 16th between Calhoun and Jones?
 

[elpingüino]

am I wrong in reading this as showing Calhoun being closed between 13th and 16th street? as well as 13th, 14th, 15th, and 16th between Calhoun and Jones?
 

Yes, Fort Worth Report says this courtyard pictured "will take over Calhoun Street, which will be shuttered for this project."

[MorganRehnberg]

Closing the road will definitely help improve the campus feel. From these initial renderings, it seems like the buildings will very much face in on the courtyard. The lower floors of the buildings that face FW Central Station look like they will be mostly bare parking structure.

[Crestline]

Wow, this is huge!

[John T Roberts]

Hopefully, when the case goes before the Downtown Design Review Board, the architects will either dress up the bare parking garages, or the DDRB will ask them to improve the appearance of the garages. 

[Big Frog II]

A nice shot in the arm for that part of downtown.

[GenX]

Now those two lots to the south of this future campus looks very appetizing for some kind of development. For expansion ? As some are already hinting for more campus growth.  Or for a high tech company that will want to be next door ? I don't think anyone will miss the street separating the two lots to make it into one. It will be a super block, so what difference will adding two more lots to the campus harm ? 

[JBB]

Anyone think there's a chance that Sundance Square management will have a problem with someone attempting to create another plaza space downtown?

[Jeriat]

Anyone think there's a chance that Sundance Square management will have a problem with someone attempting to create another plaza space downtown?

My personal thoughts:

They can have a "problem" with it all they want . . . 

Downtown needs to grow past Sundance. Period. 

[txbornviking]

 

Anyone think there's a chance that Sundance Square management will have a problem with someone attempting to create another plaza space downtown?

My personal thoughts:

They can have a "problem" with it all they want . . . 

Downtown needs to grow past Sundance. Period. 

 

 

speaking of Sundance, I thought it was interesting John Goff (of Crescent Real Estate) was a prominent speaker. 

I can't recall where I read the "theory" that the reason he from Ft. Worth had never done a project in Fort Worth before was a friendly détente with the Bass family and their Fort Worth interests.

 

Now suddenly here a very prominent figure with 2 very prominent projects in town.

[Jeriat]

 

 

Anyone think there's a chance that Sundance Square management will have a problem with someone attempting to create another plaza space downtown?

My personal thoughts:

They can have a "problem" with it all they want . . . 

Downtown needs to grow past Sundance. Period. 

 

 

speaking of Sundance, I thought it was interesting John Goff (of Crescent Real Estate) was a prominent speaker. 

I can't recall where I read the "theory" that the reason he from Ft. Worth had never done a project in Fort Worth before was a friendly détente with the Bass family and their Fort Worth interests.

 

Now suddenly here a very prominent figure with 2 very prominent projects in town.

 

And that's the direction we need to go...

[Austin55]

Maybe Goff will build the new convention center hotel?

Back to A&M, if they are taking over 4 blocks, including road closures, I wonder if they could build some of the parking underground?

[tamtagon]

Adding to the Water Gardens should be part of this whole deal. 

[Crestline]

Anyone think there's a chance that Sundance Square management will have a problem with someone attempting to create another plaza space downtown?

 

I don't think they would have a problem with the envisioned A&M plaza because it's not competitive: while Sundance Square is a downtown dining and entertainment space, the A&M plaza would be a more staid academic space. In other words, there on the edge of town I don't imagine the A&M plaza being a public draw; it'll just be a nice amenity local to the student and faculty body.

 

Adding to the Water Gardens should be part of this whole deal. 

 

I think the water gardens could easily extend south to the Lancaster sidewalk, but I don't see how they'd extend east into the A&M project. Jump over Commerce and occupy some of the law school building acreage? 

[Austin55]

A&M Fort Worth has it's first Associate Vice Chancellor, Kim McCuistion.

https://www.yourstep...pus/7448223001/

[WTXKid]

Im really excited about the new A&M campus. I just want to see it moved to panther island. This downtown location is too small for what it could potentially become.

[Jeriat]

Im really excited about the new A&M campus. I just want to see it moved to panther island. This downtown location is too small for what it could potentially become.

 

...honestly, that's the first time I've thought about that, and now that I AM thinking about it... that makes more sense. 

[WTXKid]

Oh snap!!! Call me crazy, but I think if we play this thing right we could see another large college campus in DFW. The area is already home to two UT System schools with very large enrollments. Those schools might be 30 to 40 miles away from each other. All Im saying is I would love to see a TCU (frogs) v TAMU FW (panthers) football game in a new college stadium located downtown adjacent. This could also be the economic engine Fort Worth is looking for that powers the city well past the 21st century. If the city and other local bodies can help dedicate enough land the campus could potentially reach 40,000 students on a 50 to 70 year timeline. This campus could truly be our UT Austin strategy. Pump out a large sum of innovative/technical talent in the core and create a more youthful population downtown. In all seriousness, Austin would have never become what it is today without UT. That university did wonderful things for the city. And I know we have an upside down Tax base. So use half the island for the University and the other half for complimenting uses with a doubled density. This could really be our West Campus.

[Doohickie]

I don't see how they'd extend east into the A&M project. Jump over Commerce and occupy some of the law school building acreage?

 
Actually you could probably do something like the TCC River East Campus, where the plaza is below grade.  It could be joined into the Active Pool.

[Stadtplan]

Texas A&M to make over $1 billion investment in Fort Worth

https://www.wfaa.com...d0-0a5f936c2cd3

[txbornviking]

Texas A&M to make over $1 billion investment in Fort Worth

https://www.wfaa.com...d0-0a5f936c2cd3

 
Can someone help me ID what I'm missing...
 
headline says $1B...
 
3rd sentence in story says, $1.5B 
"The Texas A&M University Board of Regents voted to approve a $1.5 billion investment in Fort Worth."
 
5th and 6th sentence then mentions two batches of $85M each
"It's a five-year capital plan that involves $85 million to start construction on a law and education building in 2023. Then in 2024, the public university fund will use another $85 million towards the construction of a research and innovation center in Fort Worth."
 
How is either $1B or $1.5B calculated?

[txbornviking]

 

 

Texas A&M to make over $1 billion investment in Fort Worth

https://www.wfaa.com...d0-0a5f936c2cd3

 
Can someone help me ID what I'm missing...
 
headline says $1B...
 
3rd sentence in story says, $1.5B 
"The Texas A&M University Board of Regents voted to approve a $1.5 billion investment in Fort Worth."
 
5th and 6th sentence then mentions two batches of $85M each
"It's a five-year capital plan that involves $85 million to start construction on a law and education building in 2023. Then in 2024, the public university fund will use another $85 million towards the construction of a research and innovation center in Fort Worth."
 
How is either $1B or $1.5B calculated?

I was wondering the same thing.

 

 

nevermind... I found it, a full rundown of the $1.5B number, a lot of which is projects all over the state/system

https://www.tamus.ed...o-capital-plan/

[johnfwd]

Roughly $160 million for the construction of three buildings--law, education, and research and innovation.  Which will add considerably to density in the southeastern quadrant of downtown.

[rriojas71]

Is the Gateway tower just the old building that has floors added on and a new front entrance?  I know the current building was designed to add additional floors in the future.

 

Also it is strange to look at this development and with all the surface parking it is going to take up there is still a huge swath of lots to the north.  Hopefully this will spur growth to cover the remaining lots in the area.  Now we need some retail spaces to coincide with all the potential growth.

[John T Roberts]

The Gateway Center is a new building.  Even though their existing building was designed to have 14 more floors added to it, the architects have decided to demolish the building and build a new structure.  All of the buildings on this campus are new.

[Austin55]

Those new renderings are nice. I do wish the project was a bit more... ambitious in appearance but regardless I guess it's whats inside that matters here. It looks like Jones St will be the backside of the project but hopefully they can work that out to be as pedestrian friendly as possible. Do we have any indication of who the architect is?

Notable: The A&M Board of Regents meeting was held in Fort Worth at Frost Tower. Pretty cool. 

[WTXKid]

Not to rain on everyones parade, but the location is extremely short sighted. Im super happy the TAMU is coming to downtown, but we could have asked for more! TAMU panther island!! I dont understand why the city/A&M decided to build the campus at its current location. Can someone share a few reasons as to why the city wouldnt push for panther island for the new tamu campus?

[NThomas]

Not to rain on everyones parade, but the location is extremely short sighted. Im super happy the TAMU is coming to downtown, but we could have asked for more! TAMU panther island!! I dont understand why the city/A&M decided to build the campus at its current location. Can someone share a few reasons as to why the city wouldnt push for panther island for the new tamu campus?

TAMU does not own any land on Panther Island but they do own 4 contiguous blocks at their current location in downtown. It's as simple as that.

[JBB]

Exactly.  The uncertainty of Panther Island is also likely a deterrent at the moment.

[Austin55]

If A&M is successful and decides to pursue a major expansion in Central Fort Worth, Butler Place might be a viable candidate location.

[gdvanc]

Putting A&M up there on Crony Island would be using state educational funds to take acreage off of the tax rolls in an area one might hope will eventually become high-value real estate.

[WTXKid]

Didnt the island just receive $400M? I would not call that uncertainty. Gdvanc, look at Austin, TX. Look at West Campus right next to UT. We can replicate the equation here. That A&M campus could be the biggest decision the city makes for the next 100 years. Austin55, that was my first thought but I eventually realized that Butler is on too much of an island and its only 40 or so acres. Just too small to really make an impact.

[WTXKid]

NThomas, if the city really willed this they could get it done. Im not giving up on this people. Im telling you, we will always be in Dallas shadow as long as we continue to only think 20 years down the road. An A&M campus on panther island is a 50 to 100 year timeline.

[WTXKid]

Nixitope, agreed. I mean, how does the visioning of panther island make any sense to anyone? Im a Developer by trade. There are already so many vacant lots in downtown and adjacent neighborhoods. What makes the city believe that the improvements to Panther Island will magically convince developers to build something other than donuts on the island? We dont have the major economic driver. We just dont. But a full tier one campus with 40k+ students could really change the city. There is 800 acres on panther island. Half to the university and half to commercial development. We could build our own West Campus on the remaining 400.

[WTXKid]

Im sure we could debate this all day and night. All Im saying is instead of the Panther Island plan imagine UT and West campus in its place. Imagine the liveliness the concentrated college population would bring to downtown and adjacent neighborhoods. The job creation and innovation the disposable income. Im just trying to speak up here. I care about this city and want to see it shine.

[WTXKid]

And no I dont want Fort Worth to become Austin. But we would be foolish not to recognize some of the strategic paths they took to create economic prosperity for their region.

[gdvanc]

Didnt the island just receive $400M? I would not call that uncertainty. Gdvanc, have you heard of Austin, TX? How about West Campus right next to UT? We can replicate the equation here. That A&M campus could be the biggest decision the city makes for the next 100 years. Austin55, that was my first thought but I eventually realized that Butler is on too much of an island and its only 40 or so acres. Just too small to really make an impact.

 

Yes, I've heard of Austin - believe it or not. When UT was established about 140 years ago, Austin was a very different town. It looked something like this:

 

 

 

UT has certainly benefitted from its location and the city has benefitted, but if they were building UT from scratch now, it wouldn't be sited where it is - that land would be too valuable. It's not a great comparison in any case. UT is a top 20 school in several categories with an enrollment of over 50,000 people from around the world, and it finds itself sitting in the capital of a state with a large economy, a city that has successfully attracted a number of high-tech companies and that anchors one of the fastest-growing metropolitan areas in the country. The equation is very, very different. You can argue that UTs presence is part of the draw for some of these things, but I'd respond that this would not change if the campus had been built a couple miles outside of what is now downtown.

 

Whatever A&M's plans are for their Fort Worth satellite, it is unlikely to ever be that. And whatever benefit it brings to the city, it can provide it where it is now. If it can ever support anything comparable to UT's West Campus, having that in that underdeveloped part of southeast downtown wouldn't be a horrible thing. It would be good for that part of downtown, nearest major transit hubs, to grow. I mean, it's still downtown.

 

I'm not sure you mean when you say that the "A&M campus could be the biggest decision the city makes for the next 100 years." What about this is a city decision?

 

I applaud your desire to see Fort Worth shine. I'm pretty sure most forum members do. We're just not all going to agree on how to get there. Or even what that looks like.

[JBB]

Didnt the island just receive $400M? I would not call that uncertainty. 

 

$400 million for final design for a project that was estimated to be over $1 billion before the current cost of materials and labor.  And this project has been in the works for nearly a quarter century.  Encouraging?  Yes.  Certain?  Far from it.

[WTXKid]

 

Didnt the island just receive $400M? I would not call that uncertainty. Gdvanc, have you heard of Austin, TX? How about West Campus right next to UT? We can replicate the equation here. That A&M campus could be the biggest decision the city makes for the next 100 years. Austin55, that was my first thought but I eventually realized that Butler is on too much of an island and its only 40 or so acres. Just too small to really make an impact.

 

Yes, I've heard of Austin - believe it or not. When UT was established about 140 years ago, Austin was a very different town. It looked something like this:

 

 

 

UT has certainly benefitted from its location and the city has benefitted, but if they were building UT from scratch now, it wouldn't be sited where it is - that land would be too valuable. Right, but the land only became valuable because UT created a talent pipeline for Austin's tech centric economy. UT fed Austin. Where would Austin be today if UT did not exist? Austin would be competing with San Antonio for Texas State students.

 

It's not a great comparison in any case. UT is a top 20 school in several categories with an enrollment of over 50,000 people from around the world, and it finds itself sitting in the capital of a state with a large economy, a city that has successfully attracted a number of high-tech companies and that anchors one of the fastest-growing metropolitan areas in the country. The equation is very, very different. You can argue that UTs presence is part of the draw for some of these things, but I'd respond that this would not change if the campus had been built a couple miles outside of what is now downtown. This A&M campus will sit at the heart of the fastest growing large city in America, in a region that is amongst some of the world's largest economies. So why is the equation so different? I mean UT came before the tech industry but, right? I would argue what we see in Austin today would have never taken place without the talent pipeline being generated by UT. So does Fort Worth want to be a tech centric city or not? That's what I am trying to address. Let's just say we had the A&M campus on Panther Island and it grew to 50K students over 50 to 100 years (UT Dallas is at 30K and I think they are 60 years old - also one of the best and most affordable public universities in the country). What do you think would happen to Fort Worth? What do you think would happen to the regional economy (Tarrant County)? What would happen to downtown? Why couldn't this campus become a top 20 campus over the next 100 years? These are not rhetorical questions. I want to know what you think. 

 

 

Whatever A&M's plans are for their Fort Worth satellite, it is unlikely to ever be that. And whatever benefit it brings to the city, it can provide it where it is now. If it can ever support anything comparable to UT's West Campus, having that in that underdeveloped part of southeast downtown wouldn't be a horrible thing. It would be good for that part of downtown, nearest major transit hubs, to grow. I mean, it's still downtown. Agreed! The current location is a good location for a Satellite campus. However, I think we are missing the opportunity to do so much more. And that's the point of my post. And if Panther Island was so valuable, Developers would have figured it out long ago. Instead, the drive-in movie theater (which I love by the way) just signed a 7 year lease extension. I'm telling you, something is missing and the infrastructure improvements aren't going to build mini Vancouver. Honestly, I don't think we should be altering the Trinity trail/park system. If you look at the proposed plan today almost all of the open space goes. That trail system/river is arguably Fort Worth's best asset Fort Worth. When I see the Panther Island model I think we just want to become Dallas Jr. No, I want to be Fort Worth. We all know what's going to happen. Developers from Dallas are going to develop Panther Island. Get ready for Texas donuts on all 800 acres.

 

I'm not sure you mean when you say that the "A&M campus could be the biggest decision the city makes for the next 100 years." What about this is a city decision? Betsy Price and Jon Goff were the ones that made the call to TAMU leadership. They started to talk about what an expanded TAMU presence meant in Fort Worth. Here's something interesting for you, someone serving on a task force board told me that A&M was originally considering land along east Lancaster for the new campus. So yes, "the city," our leaders had a hand in steering the location of this campus. 

 

I applaud your desire to see Fort Worth shine. I'm pretty sure most forum members do. We're just not all going to agree on how to get there. Or even what that looks like. I agree, and sorry about the "have you heard of Austin?" comment. I appreciate you entertaining the thought. Ultimately, that's the purpose of a forum. The exchange of ideas!

 

[Dylan]

One big positive about the currently planned location: it's within walking distance of Central Station, so students and faculty will be able to take the train or bus to work.

[roverone]

I think it is also important to say that the downtown site comes with pre-existing transportation and restaurants and living spaces.

 

A campus in the Panther Island might incentivize those things, but I'm not sure it is reasonable to ask the university build a campus cantilevered, hoping for infill to hold it up, rather than build on top of infrastructure that already exists.

[WTXKid]

Roverone, interesting comment. As the crow flys, the University would be 1/2 a mile from downtown and 1.8 miles from the heart of the stock yards. I wouldnt consider that to be cantilevered. I also dont think it would depend on infill. I think the campus creates the opportunity for infill on Panther Island and downtown neighborhoods. As proposed, the campus would probably suffer on panther island if it didnt include undergraduate studies and housing. Eventually, Id like to see the campus grow to include division 1 teams. I think we should all recognize A&M for what it is. At 18 billion in the endowment, the university could pull this off. And yes, land is expensive but this is where I would call on the Fort Worth way to get this done. This potential campus could transcend the city limits by attracting donors from all over the US. It would be interesting to see.