34 replies to this topic

[Austin55]

With talk of a new city hall, Fort Worth's existing 1971 Edward Durell Stone designed building might become vacant or re-purposed in the coming years. The building is now just months away from being 50 years old, which is one of the qualifications for historic designation. Do you think the building is worthy of preservation? Is it a brutalist eyesore that should be done away with or a brilliant work of it's era that should be kept? Is the land it sits on too valuable to keep in public hands? 

 

(Photo by John)

 

I've attached a poll, lets see what everyone thinks. 

[JBB]

The map on the post from yesterday has the building labeled as "City Hall Annex North", so I take that to mean they intend to keep it and use it in some capacity.  Personally I would like to see it razed and returned to public use.  That combined with the blocks they seem intent on taking for the new complex makes for nearly a quarter mile of after hours dead space from 10th to Lancaster.

[Doohickie]

The building is now just months away from being 50 years old, which is one of the qualifications for historic designation. Do you think the building is worthy of preservation?

 

I think it's worthy of demolition.  It was a mistake that should be erased from the landscape.

[Jeriat]

Get the wrecking crew...

[txbornviking]

Get the wrecking crew...

 

Bash Brothers reporting for duty!

 

[ramjet]

I happen to find the building interesting and salvageable.  I especially think the interior is interesting.  It all needs a major face lift, though.  I found this interesting interactive on the city halls of FW-D cities.  Fort Worth is second on the list.  Interesting background and history of the existing city hall I thought.

 

https://www.arcgis.c...4016943d95f0dfc

[rriojas71]

It would be interesting if they could just keep the sunken portion and turn it into a civic part with maybe a small building for a coffee shop. Similar to something like Union Square in San Francisco.

https://images.app.g...57CHy4BfPdMqRy9

I know it wouldnt happen but I love open spaces in a downtown that are gathering places.

Edited by rriojas71, 23 August 2019 - 02:28 PM.

[Austin55]

I'll agree with others that the interior spaces are really the most important part, it would be interesting to have an indoor space to gather, especially needed in Texas summers. The exterior, while I would argue is architecturally significant, isn't something that I think needs to stay. Combined with the location, which is prime for either redevelopment of something more friendly to an urban environment, I don't think the building should be landmarked.

[Urbndwlr]

any idea who has been consulting the City on the "8 story building"?  They threw a cost out there, which is always dangerous to do prematurely, so guessing there is at least an architect or other consultants helping guide the program. 

[rriojas71]

any idea who has been consulting the City on the "8 story building"?  They threw a cost out there, which is always dangerous to do prematurely, so guessing there is at least an architect or other consultants helping guide the program. 

I think the consultant is JD Granger

[cbellomy]

I was halfway to writing a defense of keeping it, mindful how close the county courthouse came to demolition when it was this age, when I asked myself if anything particularly historic had ever happened in that building, or if it somehow played a big part of life in Fort Worth during its time with us. That's when it hit me that this is a building that most FWers never even see except when they actually go there. It's completely isolated from the thriving parts of downtown. Not only is the brutalist design discouraging of interaction, the entire land use around it has rendered it almost invisible in our civic life.

Start over, try again.

[Big Frog II]

It's early North Korean architecture.  I say go.  

[rriojas71]

It's early North Korean architecture.  I say go.  

It may be "current" North Korean architecture

[renamerusk]

There are two immediate factors that could be pivotal in the continuance of the building:

 

1. The material content (asbestos) which would significantly raise the costs associated with razing the building

 

  2. The services that City Hall personnel provides have become more digital and less labor intensive.

 

I think the spatial demand for City Hall can be distributed throughout the City (Water/Public Works) in the Felix Complex and to other areas so that where residents live services are available directly and conveniently.

 

Sell the Central Fort Worth Library site to allow development at that location and shift the library services to the current City Hall combining it with a remaining and a smaller presence of City Hall personnel office there now.

[cberen1]

Tear it down.

 

Actually, I'm almost indifferent.  I just wanted to see if I still existed in the user database. 

[Urbndwlr]

I am less opinionated about what to do with current City Hall than I am about the need to build a really great, long-lasting new City Hall.   Havent seen or heard anything on whether the current thinking among Mayor and Council is to really do something impressive or if its just nuts and bolts "we need space to house City Staff".  Lets not screw this up being too short sited.  

[renamerusk]

I am less opinionated about what to do with current City Hall than I am about the need to build a really great, long-lasting new City Hall.   Havent seen or heard anything on whether the current thinking among Mayor and Council is to really do something impressive or if its just nuts and bolts "we need space to house City Staff".  Lets not screw this up being too short sited.  

 

 I think there are issues that must be addressed before the City undertakes a new municipal building:

 

 1. Why is city staff growing while technology is making what they traditionally do less labor intensive. (think how banks are replacing staff with ATM and online banking)

 

 2. Determine if or not there space (empty retail boxes) which can be repurposed for civic services and offices

 

3.  What is the actual cost of demolishing the existing municipal building or what will the real estate market do to fill in the space abandoned by the City

 

4. What is the consensus vision on a "great, iconic lasting" municipal building.  I personally think that much of what is iconic already exists along Lancaster Avenue (Post Office/T&P Warehouse).  Yes, they are not available but the City can be patient until these properties inevitably become available to be re-purposed.

 

I don't see a dire need to do anything at the moment except for decentralizing municipal activities to the multiple council districts where residents live and businesses operate.

[johnfwd]

I'm not really sure what kind of architectural style fits a city hall.  Such a structure is basically a utility for public services, so whether it looks like the Taj Mahal or the T&P Warehouse may be more a matter of esthetic argument than functional usage.

 

Having said the above, I would vote to keep the building.  I am struck by the last sentence of the first post in this thread:  "Is the land it sits on too valuable to keep in public hands?"  Not intending to demean the worthiness of this question, but it implies that the private sector will step in after demolition and replace the old building with something worthy of the "urban environment" (quoted phrase from Post #8).  Well, to see what the private sector is capable of doing to valuable downtown land all we have to do is check out the planned five-story apartment complex bordering Texas Street on the north and Lancaster avenue on the south.  I've previously harangued (in this Forum, that is) the developers of that project and the misguided decisions of the City Council on this particular project, so I will leave it at that.

[Austin55]

I attempted to get some "glamour shots" of City Hall for it's 50th birthday and before it is no longer City Hall.
 

 

 

 

[John T Roberts]

The trees are the only things that give this building any "glamour".  For the record, it appears the building officially opened on October 18, 1971, so it has not achieved the 50 year anniversary.  Hey, on that date, it will qualify for the initial requirement to be designated as a historic building.

[rriojas71]

Nice attempt Austin.  You didn't really have much to work with.

[Austin55]

Some details aboutt he future of City Hall: https://fortworthgov...F5-CD8969C7DEA4
 

 

The relocation of City departments from current City Hall to the future City Hall at 100 Energy Way provides an opportunity to consolidate Police and other City functions at 200 Texas Street. The current City Hall site was obtained from the U.S. Postal Service and must continue to be used for government purposes or be returned to the Federal Government.

 

In January 2022, the City Council approved the allocation of $30 million from Crime Control and Prevention District (CCPD) Capital Projects Funds to reuse portions of current City Hall as a consolidated Police facility and to build an adjacent parking structure (M&C 22-0080). The project will renovate approximately 200,000 square feet of the building, primarily the second and third floors, for Police use and will construct a new parking structure on the City's parking lot south of current City Hall. This project will consolidate the following Police facilities and functions to improve the operational efficiency and effectiveness of the department:

 

• Central Patrol (250 personnel) Terminates two leases for Police patrol and detective offices, resulting in annual savings of more than $700,000 (501 Jones and 1289 Hemphill streets),

 

• 1000 Calvert (175 personnel) Terminates lease for the Calvert Facility (former Police and Fire Training Center) with Tarrant Regional Water District, allowing demolition of facility as part of the Central City Flood Control project,

 

During the programming for 200 Texas Street, staff will also evaluate the opportunity to relocate the Police Communications Division there, while also considering other relocation options:

 

• Communications (150 personnel, 3 shifts) Replaces aging 3000 Bolt Street, 911 call center facility. Due to continued growth in population a long-term solution for a larger, modern space is necessary. The Bolt Street facility can serve as a back-up communications location.

 

The lower levels of 200 Texas Street will be programmed for other City functions that would benefit from a downtown location. As these requirements and funding sources are identified, additional recommendations will be forthcoming. 

After ranking the proposals and conducting interviews, the selection team recommends that the City Council authorize the execution of an architectural design contract with Elements of Architecture for 200 Texas Street and the new parking garage. An M&C to authorize a contract with Elements of Architecture, Inc. for programming and schematic design in the amount of $378,800 will be on the June 13 City Council agenda for consideration. 

[Doohickie]

The brutalist architecture of the old city hall works better as a police station.

[JBB]

Using CCPD money to build a parking garage seems like a bit of a stretch.

[txbornviking]

Using CCPD money to build a parking garage seems like a bit of a stretch.

 

In 2009 the "independent board" that was supposed to provide oversight on CCPD spending was disbanded and replaced with oversight by the city council.... the same councilmembers who seek the FWPOA endorsement and campaign money....

 

https://www.fwweekly...olice-spending/

[Austin55]

The item was not discussed much, but it does seem like the building could also host the Central Library, too.

Discussion starts right around 50 minutes: https://fortworthgov...278929ddaaf3baf

[Stadtplan]

The item was not discussed much, but it does seem like the building could also host the Central Library, too.

Discussion starts right around 50 minutes: https://fortworthgov...278929ddaaf3baf

 

I'm sorry, but that building just seems like the most uninspiring place for a library. It looks like some place you'd go to wait in line for an hour at the social security office or to get an x-ray.  I think Arlington did a nice / adequate job with their George Hawkes Downtown Library and Reby Cary Youth Library in FW is pretty cool too.

 

 

 

[JBB]

I wouldn't exactly call the current library any sort of masterpiece for either the exterior or interior.

[Stadtplan]

I wouldn't exactly call the current library any sort of masterpiece for either the exterior or interior.

 

I'd call it "former" library at this point in the process.  When's their official move out date?  I just hope for a big step forward versus two steps back with them tossing millions of dollars around like this, unless the library folks get the short end of the stick in this deal.  This reminds me of those reality TV shows where a group of people go to stay in a house and they need to run to pick bedrooms to see who gets the best ones first, and the library people are just sort of wandering in late and get the double bunk beds in the basement. (OK, weird analogy, but you get my point)

[txbornviking]

 

I wouldn't exactly call the current library any sort of masterpiece for either the exterior or interior.

 

I'd call it "former" library at this point in the process.  When's their official move out date?  I just hope for a big step forward versus two steps back with them tossing millions of dollars around like this, unless the library folks get the short end of the stick in this deal.  This reminds me of those reality TV shows where a group of people go to stay in a house and they need to run to pick bedrooms to see who gets the best ones first, and the library people are just sort of wandering in late and get the double bunk beds in the basement. (OK, weird analogy, but you get my point)

 

 

June 30 is the last day for the current Central Library

[Austin55]

Emily Wolf with Fort Worth Report has a great article out on the future of the building, including as PD Central HQ and as a Library. 

 

https://fortworthrep...library-branch/

[Crestline]

Emily reminds us that the land will go back to the federal government if the city doesn't find a new public use for it. I haven't seen this discussed much; has the press asked the local federal departments what use they could put the building to? There's a pretty big federal footprint downtown and I'm sure they could do something useful with the existing building.

[John T Roberts]

Personally, I think if the city used the building for either the Police Department, or as the Central Library, or both, the land would stay in the city's hands.  Both are public uses.  The Police Department may be less so than the library, but we all need them.

[Crestline]

Personally, I think if the city used the building for either the Police Department, or as the Central Library, or both, the land would stay in the city's hands.  Both are public uses.  The Police Department may be less so than the library, but we all need them.

 

I agree; I think this old city hall building would be a fantastic central library. Just strikes me as odd that no one has checked in with the feds to get their opinion. On the other hand, I guess if they had an urgent need to get this real estate back from the city, we would have heard about it by now. 

[Stadtplan]

Moving vans at City Hall this morning:



Was strange how many leaves have accumulated outside city hall.