222 replies to this topic

[John T Roberts]

I doubt the owners will put any artwork on the building.  This is a Historic Tax Credit project, and if you get restoration money from the government, you have to follow their guidelines.  Although the guidelines allow painted surfaces to be painted any color, they don't allow non-painted surfaces to be painted.  In my opinion, murals or artwork on the building would violate the guidelines.  If you are wondering about the artwork on other historic buildings downtown, those are not tax credit projects, and do not fall under any requirements.

[Crestline]

 

Were these 2015-rendering proposed exterior modifications in a prior proposal a no-go for Historic Tax Credit reasons?

[John T Roberts]

The answer is yes.  Both the 2015 and the current redevelopment were Historic Tax Credit projects.  Back in 2015, the redesign of the facade was proposed before the Texas Historical Commission (THC) ruled on the project.  The THC determined that only minimal changes to the facade that fell within the Secretary of Interiors Standards for Rehabilitation would be allowed if they were to receive the Federal and State Tax Credits.  That former owner then came back with a revised proposal that showed the illuminated lower portion of the building to be achieved with a free standing screen, instead of being attached to the structure.  The THC ruled that the tax credits would be lost if that approach was taken, as well.  Evidently the new owners decided the only thing they could do would be to add a set back rooftop addition and terrace, minimal facade changes to make the building functional, and cleaning the facade.  It is my understanding that these minimal changes were approved by the THC.

 

State Historical Commissions or Preservation Offices act on behalf of the U.S. Department of the Interior in matters of National Register of Historic Places properties and Federal Tax Credits.  That's why the THC has the power in determining the tax credits for the Federal and State levels.  Money going into projects from the City of Fort Worth is determined by the City of Fort Worth Historic and Cultural Landmarks Commission.

[youngalum]

So in other words, it is going to look like an ugly building for eternity. Should have just torn it down and built something that doesn't look like 1950's Russia. 

 

I mean we just have to keep the old brown thing around the base, because it is historic!!!

[steave]

I would argue that redesign is consistent with the original micentury modern aesthetic of the original. It looks like something that could have been built in 1969, maybe if the architect back then had a bigger budget or a client with better taste. Of course I realize that with historic designations I guess it has to be exactly the same or something? Just that in spirit, what a big improvement that facade upgrade would have been.

[John T Roberts]

Nitixope, I think you have raised an interesting point. 

 

I enjoyed looking at the Climate Pledge Arena project and I thank you for posting the link.  Interiors are not covered under the Secretary of Interior's Standards.  Generally, in a designated building at all levels you can do what you want on the inside.  However, when you are dealing with Historic Tax Credits, the THC requires preserving intact interior elements in order to keep the tax credits.

 

I was going to write a reply to Youngalum, but I think that my earlier posts explain the history of the building and the extension of the historic boundaries to include this property.  I can see the rationale behind including the building into the Hotel Texas' historic designations.  However, I do think the extension of the boundary is rather liberal.  This building looks nothing like it did in 1928, even though it was expanded somewhat as it was designed, and the lower floors still retain its historic use.  The original portion was designed by a prominent Fort Worth architect, as was the hotel addition.  Designating this building historic is not cut and dried.  However, the designation has already been made and the owners have to live by that decision if they want to use Federal and State money to help fund their project.

[Crestline]

So in other words, it is going to look like an ugly building for eternity. Should have just torn it down and built something that doesn't look like 1950's Russia. 

 

I mean we just have to keep the old brown thing around the base, because it is historic!!!

 

Take solace that after 969 Commerce tops out across the street it'll be a lot harder to see the Annex. I think that the Annex will blend in pretty anonymously and inoffensively after it's surrounded by newer tall buildings. 

[Jeriat]

 

So in other words, it is going to look like an ugly building for eternity. Should have just torn it down and built something that doesn't look like 1950's Russia. 

 

I mean we just have to keep the old brown thing around the base, because it is historic!!!

 

Take solace that after 969 Commerce tops out across the street it'll be a lot harder to see the Annex. I think that the Annex will blend in pretty anonymously and inoffensively after it's surrounded by newer tall buildings. 

 

I feel like we need a couple more in that pocket of downtown for good measure...

[John T Roberts]

It would be nice to have all of these surface parking lots filled in with tall buildings.

[txbornviking]

I'd be curious if there is a legal reason a city couldn't implement some sort of "parking tax."

my thought being something like $0.10 per day per spot.

 

In Texas it is estimated there are approx 800 private vehicles per 1000 residents. Extrapolating that out to Ft Worth that's an estimated 700k private vehicles.

It's also widely quoted that in the US there are 4 parking spots for every vehicle, so we could assume 2.8 million parking spots in Fort Worth.

 

At $0.10 per spot, per day, that could generate $102M/yr in tax revenues. Maybe redirect those into densification development grants? bettering the budget for Trinity Metro?

ok... ok... ok... I'll be open to the argument that much of that parking is required by code (IMO #BanParkingMinimums), so maybe just implement that tax in areas of the city that currently do not have parking minimums, ie downtown, and make it $1/day 

[JBB]

Technically that's a sales tax that wouldn't fit under the cap.

[elpingüino]

Remington Hotels has agreed to manage Le Méridien,
https://www.hospital...ws/4109003.html

[Jeriat]

 

Looks like some renovations coming soon to Hilton Hotel 815 Main St.  Not sure yet if it is major or minor work....will post once the permit goes live:

 

06/28/2022

22TMP-067896

Commercial Remodel Building Permit

Hilton Hotel

815 MAIN ST, Fort Worth TX 76102

 

Perhaps a returning retail space to that old Starbucks?

[rriojas71]

 

 

 
Looks like some renovations coming soon to Hilton Hotel 815 Main St.  Not sure yet if it is major or minor work....will post once the permit goes live:
 
06/28/2022
22TMP-067896

Commercial Remodel Building Permit
Hilton Hotel
815 MAIN ST, Fort Worth TX 76102
 

Perhaps a returning retail space to that old Starbucks?

A gift shop?

 

Maybe it will be a Quicktrip?

[John T Roberts]

You are not missing anything.  Since this is a historic tax credit project, no major changes to the facade are allowed to receive the tax credits.  This means the building will always look like the rendering. 

[youngalum]

You are not missing anything.  Since this is a historic tax credit project, no major changes to the facade are allowed to receive the tax credits.  This means the building will always look like the rendering. 

Historically ugly should be the words used here 

[elpingüino]

https://www.star-tel...e264096861.html
Star-Telegram says construction will wrap up in June 2023

[Crestline]

 

So in other words, it is going to look like an ugly building for eternity. Should have just torn it down and built something that doesn't look like 1950's Russia. 

 

I mean we just have to keep the old brown thing around the base, because it is historic!!!

 

Take solace that after 969 Commerce tops out across the street it'll be a lot harder to see the Annex. I think that the Annex will blend in pretty anonymously and inoffensively after it's surrounded by newer tall buildings. 

 

The prophesy has been fulfilled.

 

I now have this weekend's construction photos.  Formwork is almost in place for all of the 13th floor.  Some rebar has been placed for the columns on the 14th floor.  One of the stair cores has the column rebar in place for the 15th floor.  I am not posting a photo from the NW corner, since it now requires an extreme wide angle picture.  I do have a lens that will cover the whole building, but the vertical vanishing point is very severe.

 

deco969-09-11-22-1 by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

[John T Roberts]

I took this construction progress photo on October 22.  It shows that in order to have a new pool, the old one and some of the structure supporting it and the outdoor terrace was removed.  The photo also shows where the steel structure was added on top of the column stubs at the roof of the old Biltmore Garage.  Due to the transition from concrete to steel, the last floor of parking has very low head clearance.

lemeridien-10-22-22 by jtrobert, on Flickr

[John T Roberts]

I wish I had gone back up to the Kimpton Harper Hotel lobby this afternoon when I was taking pictures of Deco 969.  As I was heading back to my car parked on Jones Street between 8th & 9th, I noticed the new rooftop steel structure just starting to be placed on top of the Le Meridien Hotel.  I took this picture from the Fort Worth Central Station.  It's hard to distinguish that this steel is a part of the hotel renovation, due to the elevator shaft and overrun put on top of the Kimpton Harper Hotel to serve the future rooftop terrace on that building.  I think it is interesting that this steel framework is not shown on Austin55's drone shot of Deco 969, but the new apartment building conceals it.

 

lemeridien-11-06-22 by jtrobert, on Flickr

[John T Roberts]

Yes, this rooftop level is very extensive, yet it does meet all of the Secretary of Interior's Standards for Rehabilitation.  Note that the addition is set back from all sides of the building.  The biggest setback is on 8th Street, which is considered the front of the building, even though the address is on Commerce.  The smallest setback from the exterior wall is inside the courtyard/light well.  The reason the THC allowed such a small setback, is that that entire courtyard area is already setback from the street facade.  It appears that the part of the addition with the least setback is where the existing stair is being brought up to the roof to provide the second exit for the roof itself.  That stair is currently on the west wall of the building in the north wing.

[rriojas71]

I wonder if it will add to the overall height of the building?

[John T Roberts]

It will not add to the overall height.  All of the rooftop elements being constructed on the roof are lower than the elevator overrun/stair access penthouse on the west side of the southern wing.  You can even see that from the rendering that Austin55 posted.

[Crestline]

$35,000,000 / 189-keys = $185,185.185 / key  (ok, side note, I've never divided 35M/189 but that's really odd result of repeating 185's.  someone with more math know how please explain this)

 

Best I can do is link wikipedia. 

[rriojas71]

 

 

lemeridien-11-06-22 by jtrobert, on Flickr

I'd love to see some artwork or some other treatment done to this blank wall to give the building a little more pop and to break up it's monotonous tone.  I doubt it will happen but one can only hope.

[John T Roberts]

Nitixope just posted the reasons why no changes to the facade can be made due to the loss of Federal and State Tax Credits.  Now, if the building's owners didn't mind losing those tax credits, then they could change the facade.  However, I'm betting that the project would not be economically feasible without those tax credits. 

 

As for the original reason for the blank wall, current building codes do not allow openings in a building directly on the property line, or within 3 feet of it, which this appears to be.  Since I was a 13 year old in 1970, I can't say for sure if the building code at that time did or did not allow windows at that location.  I'm willing to bet that the codes were already toughening up enough that they were not allowed.  I realize that Rriojas only mentioned artwork or some other kind of treatment, but opening up the facade with windows would not be a solution that is allowed by the building code. 

 

You can also see how new buildings are being designed in Downtown that are built right on the property line.  Deco 969's architects decided to back the building off of both sides of Winfield Place, which had existing windows on the property line.  The AC Hotel's architects pocketed the windows in the rooms off of the property line to allow for windows on the south wall.

[John T Roberts]

The steel structure for the elevator now has the elevator shaft penetrating the existing roof.  That's all that has been done visibly on the top of the building.  Down at the pool level, the hole for the new pool hasn't changed.

lemeridien-02-19-23 by jtrobert, on Flickr

[arch-image]

 

  I realize that Rriojas only mentioned artwork or some other kind of treatment, but opening up the facade with windows would not be a solution that is allowed by the building code. 

 

 

 

There is a company does "building Wraps" similar to cars, and can be cool but that's a lot of wall! it's actually pretty cheap to do.  

SD_1 - Photo by Arch-Image, on Flickr

[Stadtplan]

Drive-by an hour ago:

[John T Roberts]

New windows.

[arch-image]

Excited to see how the Lucien and the Otis turn out! 

[John T Roberts]

More steel has been erected on the roof.  This view is from the 24th floor of the Kimpton Harper Hotel.

 

lemeridien-05-21-23 by jtrobert, on Flickr

[John T Roberts]

I think a good bit of the remediation was done by the previous owner.  I toured the building when he owned it, and it was just a shell.  Maybe some remediation was required inside the parking garage and basement.  We didn't walk those areas, except on the 5th floor where the connection was made from 1928 concrete framed garage to the 1970 steel framed vertical expansion.  

 

All of the windows are to be replaced, and most of that work has been completed.  I know that there was supposed to be quite a bit of remodeling work on the first floor to expand the lobby from the old retail spaces that were there, previously.

[arch-image]

Seems like they are not on a fast track schedule with this project. Do you suspect there is remediation inside?

 

Always hard to see the progress when its all inside. As for remediation , when we toured it we were told it was all done. There is always a few bits n pieces that pop up but I would say at least 95% was already done

[ramjet]

 

Seems like they are not on a fast track schedule with this project. Do you suspect there is remediation inside?

 

Always hard to see the progress when its all inside. As for remediation , when we toured it we were told it was all done. There is always a few bits n pieces that pop up but I would say at least 95% was already done

 

 

Marriott website indicates an April '24 opening:

 

https://www.marriott...arshaCode=DALWM

[arch-image]

 

 

Seems like they are not on a fast track schedule with this project. Do you suspect there is remediation inside?

 

Always hard to see the progress when its all inside. As for remediation , when we toured it we were told it was all done. There is always a few bits n pieces that pop up but I would say at least 95% was already done

 

 

Marriott website indicates an April '24 opening:

 

https://www.marriott...arshaCode=DALWM

 

 

Thats totally doable. Only thing would hold them up is if the dockworker's slow down in California delays them getting their furniture. It's getting ugly again. 

[RD Milhollin]

 

 

 

Seems like they are not on a fast track schedule with this project. Do you suspect there is remediation inside?

 

Always hard to see the progress when its all inside. As for remediation , when we toured it we were told it was all done. There is always a few bits n pieces that pop up but I would say at least 95% was already done

 

 

Marriott website indicates an April '24 opening:

 

https://www.marriott...arshaCode=DALWM

 

 

Thats totally doable. Only thing would hold them up is if the dockworker's slow down in California delays them getting their furniture. It's getting ugly again. 

 

BUY NORTH AMERICAN!

[arch-image]

While I totally agree with the sentiment, tough to "buy American" when there are no manufacturers making any of it here. I just got told last Friday several of the Concrete companies are now buying cement by the literal "boatloads" and shipping it here because there is such a shortage in usa manufacturing. I said 20 years ago, if not more, when all manufacturing began moving overseas that it was the worst thing that could be done. I said then years down the road when other countries controlled us due to having to buy 90 of everything from overseas, and usually not our friends, we would be screwed. ..... Here we are! 

 

 

BUY NORTH AMERICAN!

 

 

 

Marriott website indicates an April '24 opening:

 

https://www.marriott...arshaCode=DALWM

 

Thats totally doable. Only thing would hold them up is if the dockworker's slow down in California delays them getting their furniture. It's getting ugly again. 

 

 

[TLA]

View of the rooftop bar, as of yesterday. 

 

[John T Roberts]

I look forward to see how this project looks when it is completed.

[TLA]

I look forward to see how this project looks when it is completed.

Likewise. Im a sucker for rooftop restaurants and observation decks. The height which we can admire the skyline. Also, the idea of activity not only on the street. Makes the city feel alive.

[John T Roberts]

I was in Downtown last night, and I noticed that installation has begun on the lighting of the facade at the roof.  I didn't take any photographs.  I was driving. 

[Austin55]

I noticed that too - it makes it pop nicely.

[John T Roberts]

I had a chance to get Downtown tonight and I shot this photograph of the new lighting on the Le Meridien Hotel.

lemeridien-night by jtrobert, on Flickr

[John T Roberts]

The lighting really highlights the uneven concrete panels on the blank wall.  I'm wondering if the lighting designers might re-think their decision at some point in the future.  As for the color temperature of the lighting, I do think that it is less than 4,000 Kelvin.  I'm hoping that my cell phone didn't alter the colors too much. 

[Doohickie]

The lighting really highlights the uneven concrete panels on the blank wall. 

I think it makes it look more visually interesting.

[Urbndwlr]

John, would their Historic status prevent the owners from putting a mural of sorts on either or both of the large blank walls?

If not, perhaps art in the form of projected light could be interesting.

[John T Roberts]

Urbndwlr, in answer to your question, I would probably that a mural would not be allowed.  My reasoning is that it would be painting the original pre-cast concrete panels, which could not be easily removed.  In my opinion, this would be altering the facade.  Another reason why I don't think it would be allowed is that the previous owner suggested putting a free-standing screen in front of parts of the lower portion of the building, and that was turned down because it limited the visibility of the historic facade.  You also have to remember that this project is going for the historic tax credits in order to be economically feasible.  The Texas Historical Commission would be reviewing their project. 

 

I do think your alternative would be allowed.  Projecting images on a facade does not alter it in any fashion. 

 

On a related note, the signage package has come up before this month's Downtown Design Review Board, and I received my packet ahead of time this month.  They are going for approval of the entire sign package.  The proposed signs at the crown of the building are higher than 120 feet, so they are seeking a waiver to install them at approximately 138'-6" above the first floor.  This would put the crown of building signs at the very top of the building.  There is one major change from when the project was submitted at the start of the hotel remodel.  Originally, the package had the crown signage on the north and south facades of the building.  The one on the north facade was on the northwest corner of the building.  It will remain where originally shown.  The one on the south facade was on the southeast corner.  This proposal was done before Deco 969 was built.  If the sign were to be installed at that location, it would not be visible from Commerce Street, and only from limited locations on Jones.  The new location is to install it on the east facade near the southeast corner. 

[John T Roberts]

Placement of the sign on the east side of the building is more in line with the historical location of a sign on the annex.  Without checking the Star-Telegram archives, I believe the old Biltmore Garage was purchased by the Hotel Texas and the project was announced to expand it and bring it into the hotel complex before the hotel became branded as a Sheraton.  When Sheraton did take over, the Hotel Texas rooftop sign on the 1921 building was replaced with a larger, "Sheraton" sign with block capital letters.  When the annex expansion was completed, a similar Sheraton sign was centered on the blank east wall, also in block capital letters.  Even though the last Sheraton logo with a serif font and lower case letters has been used since 1937, I don't think every building put signs up with that logo, this one certainly did not. 

[arch-image]

The lighting really highlights the uneven concrete panels on the blank wall.  I'm wondering if the lighting designers might re-think their decision at some point in the future.  As for the color temperature of the lighting, I do think that it is less than 4,000 Kelvin.  I'm hoping that my cell phone didn't alter the colors too much. 

 

I really like the way it Highlights the unevenness of the panels. It at least give it some type of "look" other than just a flat face of concrete.