12 replies to this topic

[Austin55]

There's already been two big announcements already this year of office buildings getting converted. 

 

By my count, there are 13 pre-war buildings with at least eight floors that were built as office buildings. The Historic Electric Building and Houston Place Building were converted into residential in the 1990s, followed by Neil P and T&P Terminal in the mid-2000s. Recently, the 714 Main, The Sinclair, and W.T. Waggoner buildings went hotel, and plans have been announced to convert the Bob Simpson Building too. That makes 8 of 13 that have been converted. Additionally, the Burk Burnett Building is rumored to have a conversion pending, and the Petroleum Building is currently vacant, and it seems at least part of the Star-Telegram building might go residential. 

 

The only remaining office pre-war highrise offices that are still functioning as offices (and not mentioned above as rumored to be converted) are the Fort Worth Club Building and STS Tower. The STS Tower was recently renovated and seems unlikely to be converted for a while, and has a high occupancy from what I’ve heard. The Fort Worth Club has a nice floorplan for a potential conversion, but due to it’s integration with the 1970’s expansion of the building any conversion seems highly unlikely (though a portion of it is being used as a hotel, but it's a very small part).

 

 

I wrote a post on my site in more detail here: https://www.now.town...nversion-trends

[roverone]

It makes me wonder if, going forward, there is a way to design tall buildings in a way that that anticipates and supports all 3 broad categories of use: office, hospitality, and residential, extending the lifetime and utility of the building.

 

I realize that makes for an expensive design, but it would be a fun exercise to think through what is needed for something like this.  Most might just be providing more: more data capabilities or more plumbing capabilities; modular HVAC.   But other things are more interesting: lobby and elevator needs, floor plate and window designs that are easily adaptable.

 

I know building code tends to treat uses in different ways, but maybe there is some kind of superset that could cover them all.

 

The idea of a building that could take on each use at an almost floor-by-floor granularity is interesting to me.  Were it done in such a way that those uses could shift without too much friction from decade to decade is even more interesting.

[elpingüino]

New York Times wrote an in-depth report about converting office buildings, with interactive graphics of floor plates before and after.
So You Want to Turn an Office Building Into a Home? Cities are eager to do this amid rising remote work. But its harder than you might think.

I didn't know this but it makes sense. Office buildings from the first half of the 20th century make for simpler conversions because the same factors that shaped how they were designed as offices a century ago also determine how apartments are planned today, particularly distance from windows.

[John T Roberts]

elpingüino, you should come on our Downtown Tours, I have mentioned this several times in the ones that I lead.  Most people don't even realize that the older historic office buildings have very small floor plates, and are not full squares or rectangles. 

 

It's going to be interesting to see how the Bob R. Simpson Building (originally First National Bank with 2 additions) is converted into a hotel. My original thought was that a courtyard might be carved in the center, creating an "O" shape, or the last addition might be demolished, creating an "L" shape.

[Stadtplan]

That is a really cool article. Very nicely done.

Its interesting the article acknowledges that remote has created an office glut while addressing a housing shortage.

[Dismuke]

And these conversions aren't just a modern phenomenon.  Historically, the trend was mostly in the other direction, from hotel to office space.

 

One famous example is the Knickerbocker Hotel in Times' Square in New York City. It opened as a luxury hotel in 1906 and was converted into office space in the 1920s.  And, interestingly enough, in recent years, it was converted back into a hotel that now operates under its original name.

 

Here in Fort Worth, the original Worth Hotel was converted into office space and eventually was destroyed by fire in 1945.

 

In Dallas there was an example in the opposite direction - the very impressive looking late 1880s North Texas National Bank building was converted sometime during the 1940s into the Hotel Maurice.  It was demolished in the late 1960s.

 

The trend from hotel to office space made sense at the time.  Hotels have always had a tendency to become perceived as out of date rather quickly.  But that was especially the case in the first part of the 20th century as newer hotels offered innovations such as bathrooms in every guest room.  And, at the time, office buildings had small floor plates as well, so that wasn't an issue.

In the future, I can see how smaller floorplates not being as much of an issue for marketing office space as it has been.  The major issue with a small floor plate is if a tenant has enough employees that it becomes necessary to occupy multiple floors. Time having to be spent on stairs and in elevators is not only a hassle for employees, it translates to lost productivity.   But with everything going digital, there has been a trend for companies needing less square footage of office space than they once would have had.  And the rise of full and part time remote work, as mentioned, is accelerating that trend. 

 

For a firm that only has need for a small amount of office space, the small floorplates of vintage buildings are not a problem.  In some respects, they might even be an advantage in terms of being able to have access to more windows and even more corner offices.  With current trends, it occurs to me that in the future smaller tenants might perhaps be a larger and more important percentage of the market for office space than they have been. 

[Stadtplan]

For a firm that only has need for a small amount of office space, the small floorplates of vintage buildings are not a problem.  In some respects, they might even be an advantage in terms of being able to have access to more windows and even more corner offices.  With current trends, it occurs to me that in the future smaller tenants might perhaps be a larger and more important percentage of the market for office space than they have been. 

 

I know someone that offices out of 901 W. Vickery and one of the drawbacks of an old building is they underestimated the liveliness of foot traffic noise on hard surfaces from the above tenants.  In one sense, the above tenants are minding their own business doing their own thing and those downstairs can probably hear every footstep they make, so who's right or wrong?  Strange situation I guess especially if you are high-strung enough for this to be a bother.  Once the above folks know the below folks are annoyed, what's reasonable to expect for foot traffic / shoe choice etc?  Are clogs and high heels out of the question?  Should those downstairs take a chill pill?  Is the noise interrupting meetings, phone calls and such?  I know I would probably be annoyed in a hotel or apartment situation if I heard kids running around constantly, that's why I have gravitated towards newer construction with concrete poured floors on my last several hotel stays.

 

Brand Book if you're interested: https://www.m2gventu...k-digital-1.pdf

[Dismuke]

 

a bother.  Once the above folks know the below folks are annoyed, what's reasonable to expect for foot traffic / shoe choice etc?  Are clogs and high heels out of the question?  Should those downstairs take a chill pill?  Is the noise interrupting meetings, phone calls and such?  I know I would probably be annoyed in a hotel or apartment situation if I heard kids running around constantly, that's why I have gravitated towards newer construction with concrete poured floors on my last several hotel stays.

 

 

 

I can understand why that would be disruptive and annoying.

But isn't this more of a factor in terms of how substantially a wood frame building is constructed than it is of its construction material?  I have been in wood frame buildings where one could hear people moving on the floor above.  But I have also been in others where I did not.

Most of the 5 or so story apartments and hotels that have been going up in recent years are wood frame above the first floor.  I haven't spent enough time in any to know if noise from people moving around on the floor above is a problem or not.

At any rate, pretty much any building over 5 or 6 stories is going to be steel and concrete.  The only sizeable vintage hotel in the area still standing in recent years that was wood frame (load bearing brick walls with wood beams and columns) was the old Ambassador Hotel in Dallas' Old City Park, originally the Majestic and then the Park hotel, which opened in 1905 and was sadly destroyed by fire a few years ago.  It was six stories.

I am trying to think of any vintage wood frame buildings in downtown Fort Worth that are as tall as the modern wood framed apartment blocks that are going up - and am not able to think of any still standing.  Even the 1894 courthouse is steel and concrete.  

 

 

 

[Austin55]

Article from Fort Worth Report on the office conversion subject: https://fortworthrep...housing-crisis/

[John T Roberts]

That's a nice article.  Thanks for posting.

[johnfwd]

It's great that empty offices downtown may be converted to affordable housing.  I'm wondering what the effect will be on the Class A office market downtown.  Obviously, less available office space will mean a tighter market.  Will this mean future high-rise office towers for DTFW?  Or will it just be a continuation of the trend to make downtown, as Andy Taft commented in the article, "a place to live and visit?"

[JBB]

If market conditions are forcing conversion to residential, there's going to have to be a major shift in the other direction to bring about more high rise office space.  You typically can't force demand by reducing supply.

[johnfwd]

If market conditions are forcing conversion to residential, there's going to have to be a major shift in the other direction to bring about more high rise office space.  You typically can't force demand by reducing supply.

That's true about market demand.  And that's why I ponder about the future of downtowns, not just Fort Worth.  Fewer offices and more hotels and residences in demand.  Will that be downtown's "new environment," a phrase borrowed from that article?