267 replies to this topic

[xxturtlequeenxx]

This is a remarkably beautiful building, and i've always been fascinated by it. I was wondering if anyone knows the history to it, if any attempts at preserving it have been made, and what it is being leased for($), and by who. Is this the wrong forum? Thank you all that can help me out with my questions.

[pelligrini]

There was a recent thread on it Here.

I've always like that building too.

[pelligrini]

There is also a page about it on the Main Website.

http://www.fortworth...ublicmarket.htm

[John T Roberts]

This thread should probably be moved to the "Historic Buildings and Preservation" Forum. That said, rumors are floating around town that there is movement to redevelop the building. I haven't been able to confirm those rumors.

Welcome to the forum, Turtlequeen!

[John T Roberts]

It is listed on the National Register, and as a Recorded Texas Historical Landmark. Locally, it has a Demolition Delay designation, but I think the developers are going to have that level raised to either Historic & Cultural Landmark, or Highly Significant Endangered.

[seurto]

Since we don't have to worry about Thistle Hill any more, all us Forum members could pitch in a buy the Public Market building and set up various offices in it - don't ya think, huh....maybe?

[John T Roberts]

The Fort Worth South Newsletter now lists the building in the for sale category. Here is the information that is in their newsletter:

1400 Henderson, Historic 1925 Public Market Bldg. – 40,210 sf building for sale: $3,701,190. Call 817-710-1110.

[Volare]

$3,701,190 huh?

Kind of a strange number.

[cberen1]

Seems high.

Out of my league.

[johnfwd]

No opinion about the sales price. But as the last tenant was the Tarrant County Bar Association a few years ago, I had a chance to see what the interior is like. At that time I reached a layman’s conclusion that a lot of interior structural work needs to be done (much of the flooring is quite rickety, for one thing). But it’s an elegant historical landmark that could become a showcase, just as is its larger counterpart in Oklahoma City. The Oklahoma City Farmers Market has become a venue for public and private events, as their website (below) suggests.

http://www.okcfarmersmarket.com/

[AndyN]

Is restoration on the slate now?

Simpson buys Fort Worth Public Market

[url="http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4263&st=0&p=62721&hl="public%20market"&fromsearch=1&#entry62721"]Forum post[/url] about fire damage to adjoining building

[cberen1]

I think this is an incredibly positive development. I couldn't be happier. What a wonderful steward for one of Fort Worth's real architectural gems.

[Brian Luenser]

King Bob Simpson. I put him ahead of Amon Carter or anybody else for his contributions to Fort Worth.

We don't have to wonder if it is going to become a strip club or a crappy flea market. It won't.
An amazing turn of events for this City.

[ramjet]

Yep. Really great news. Thanks Simpson family (I read where his wife Janice is a partner in these deals, too.) Fort Worth has been so fortunate in its history to have a lot of citizens who are smitten to the core with their city. And luckily, many of them have been rich and generous. The legacy continues...

[renamerusk]

The Plaza in Sundance Square, Shelton Renovation; and now this news; this July just keeps on giving. Don't wake me up from this dream!

[RD Milhollin]

Is restoration on the slate now?

Simpson buys Fort Worth Public Market

Wow! Great news. I wonder if the Simpsons might be interested in a little neglected warehouse a few blocks to the east?

[jefffwd]

http://www.fwbusines...SubSectionID=49

[Doohickie]

Fort Worth has been so fortunate in its history to have a lot of citizens who are smitten to the core with their city.

This really is the difference between Fort Worth and other cities where I've lived. In other cities there is little interest in the urban core if cheap land is available in the suburbs.

[youngalum]

King Bob Simpson. I put him ahead of Amon Carter or anybody else for his contributions to Fort Worth.

We don't have to wonder if it is going to become a strip club or a crappy flea market. It won't.
An amazing turn of events for this City.

I slow way down on saying Simpson has done more for Fort Worth than Carter. Without Carter there would be no buildings for Simpson to buy. Many of those buildings are here because of what Carter personally did and/or his influence brought them to this town.

You obviously have not lived in Fort Worth very long or you are seriously shortchanging one of the cities greatest ambassadors and money men in Fort Worth.

In time Simpson might catch Carter, but as of 2012 it is not even debatable.

[DKinFW]

OK, it is sold, but the "For Sale" poster is still up in front. At least it was two days ago.

[Dismuke]

I think this is an incredibly positive development. I couldn't be happier. What a wonderful steward for one of Fort Worth's real architectural gems.

I agree. And I suspect what he will do with the building will end up being a lot more sensitive to its history than what happened to its sister building in Tulsa - built by the same owner and architect. The Public Market in Tulsa was going to be demolished and replace with a parking lot for a new Home Depot. After a lot of outcry from art deco fans from around the world, Home Depot at least agreed to save the facade of the building. The building itself was demolished and replaced with a smaller strip shopping center built behind the facade. To be fair, the original building behind the facade was very utilitarian - so, in the end, the most architecturally significant aspect of the building was saved. But it is still a shame that a use for the entire building could not have been found.

Here are a few images of Tulsa's Public Market building. It, too, is a very nice building - but I actually think the one if Fort Worth is nicer:






This side view shows the modern strip shopping center building that was built behind the original facade. The original building was much deeper.

[Brian Luenser]

Interesting this building has a Sister in Tulsa. I do think our building looks better. I think our is going to be restored beautifully. One word for you... Bob Simpson.

It is easy to love Fort Worth when you are putting a bunch of money into an old building with an expected payoff to re-coop your investment. For Bob Simpson it is really just his love of Fort Worth. Take the Transport Life Building on Main street for Example. I have no real numbers in front of me. But I can tell you for sure that if Bob paid a million dollars for the building, and put in 50 million restoring it and then is worth 30 million now. WT Waggoner building an even better example. Made no economic sense to put such a huge sum of money into an old building, much of it to faithfully represent the past. That is why I call him, Mr. Fort Worth. Have never met the man but would take a vacation day to wax his car and mow his lawn if he would let me. I still say a much bigger asset to Fort Worth than even Amon Carter. Speeking of Amon Carter, I am excited to see the progress of the Star Telegram Building. (Thanks again Bob...) I see dozens of workers (Hundreds?) pouring in each morning for a days work.

[JBB]

While I don't doubt Mr. Simpson's passion for preserving Fort Worth's historic buildings, I can't imagine the stockholders of a publicly held company like XTO footing the bill on work like that without a return on investment. Even if it just increased the value of the company, it ain't exactly charity work.

[johnfwd]

Interesting this building has a Sister in Tulsa. I do think our building looks better. I think our is going to be restored beautifully. One word for you... Bob Simpson.

It is easy to love Fort Worth when you are putting a bunch of money into an old building with an expected payoff to re-coop your investment. For Bob Simpson it is really just his love of Fort Worth. Take the Transport Life Building on Main street for Example. I have no real numbers in front of me. But I can tell you for sure that if Bob paid a million dollars for the building, and put in 50 million restoring it and then is worth 30 million now. WT Waggoner building an even better example. Made no economic sense to put such a huge sum of money into an old building, much of it to faithfully represent the past. That is why I call him, Mr. Fort Worth. Have never met the man but would take a vacation day to wax his car and mow his lawn if he would let me. I still say a much bigger asset to Fort Worth than even Amon Carter. Speeking of Amon Carter, I am excited to see the progress of the Star Telegram Building. (Thanks again Bob...) I see dozens of workers (Hundreds?) pouring in each morning for a days work.

I wasn't aware of a similarly designed public market in Tulsa. I do know (because I've visited it) of a similar structure on Exchange Avenue in Oklahoma City.

[cberen1]

While I don't doubt Mr. Simpson's passion for preserving Fort Worth's historic buildings, I can't imagine the stockholders of a publicly held company like XTO footing the bill on work like that without a return on investment. Even if it just increased the value of the company, it ain't exactly charity work.

I think this is basically true, but we're also talking about real estate in DTFW. Even expensive real estate is pretty reasonably priced by national standards. I'm not sure anyone would notice on a 10Q filing.

[johnfwd]

Drove by  the public market building the other day.  Still an empty shell.  Thought the new ownership would make a difference.  Anyone know what is or is not happening?

[Doohickie]

Doesn't he have another project going on downtown?  I suspect when that winds up, there will be activity here.

[AndyN]

The former Star-Telegram building is under reconstruction. Perhaps when that is complete.

[cberen1]

Superman doesn't get to take a day off.  Come on Bob. 

[Doohickie]

Yeah, that's the same owner.... Simpson, right?

[John T Roberts]

Yes, Bob Simpson is restoring the old Star-Telegram Building and he now owns the Public Market.

[dangr.dave]

FYI - I drove by the Public Market building this morning and there were quite a number of cars there and people in safety vests.  I guess they are going to start the renovations very soon.

[MrsJimHarper]

I've been in love with this building my whole life. Would love to see something come of it! I work right by there, so I'll keep an eye out for progress.

[dangr.dave]

FYI, I "like" the Pantagleize Theatre Company on Facebook.  As you probably know (you probably don't, but that's okay), they are currently located right behind the Public Market building.  Today, on their Facebook page, they posted the following:

 

"It's time for Pantagleize to leave its current digs and move into its future! The wrecking ball has loomed over that old building for a year now, waiting to reduce the birthplace of Stage West and the old Meeting Place to rubble to provide a staging area for the restoration of the Public Market."

 

So, we will soon see some demolition and staging, which means that the restoration of the Public Market building should get going soon!

[John T Roberts]

Dave, thanks for the information.  I would imagine that when restoration is complete, they will use the site of Pantagleize as parking for the building.

 

Here is one of my recent shots of the building.

[dangr.dave]

I like the boldness of the sky, John!

[johnfwd]

When Simpson purchased the property his desire was to return the public market to its original use (sale of fruits and vegetables, etc.). No quarrel about that but wish it could be a venue for live performances and other arts and cultural uses.

[Doohickie]

The two uses are not mutually exclusive.

[John T Roberts]

Dave, I used a polarizing filter to pop the sky.

[Austin55]

Sold again, new buyer intends restoration. 

 

http://www.star-tele...ublic.html?rh=1

 

Personally I'd tear it down... piece by piece and move it to somewhere proper. It's location is surrounded on all side by freeway and is just terrible for it. Put her on South Main or Magnolia or something. That's obviously something I hiiiighly doubt would happpen, but would be nice. Alternatively redesign those ridiculous and wasteful flyover freeway ramps.

[cberen1]

That sounds like a great deal.  Thank you Bob Simpson for the deed restriction.

[Volare]

Uh oh, it's been sold again:

 

http://www.star-tele...rth-public.html

 

"The deed carries a restriction that the main building can’t be demolished and the outside cannot be materially changed before June 12, 2084."

 

Sounds like they have the expertise to do the masonry work required on the outside of the building. Perhaps they can set their sights on another larger brick building just a bit to the east once they finish the PM building.

Read more here: http://www.star-tele...#storylink=cpy"

[johnfwd]

At least the buyer sounds aggressive about doing the renovation.  Once the structure is restored, he'll have to worry about ingress and egress at this sorry location.

[John T Roberts]

The new owners have been masonry sub-contractors on several of my architectural projects over the years. 

[cerebralshrike]

They're gonna turn it into office space. I dunno, I kinda wanted to see it opened up either the public market again, or some other fun project. 

[johnfwd]

Believe it or not, the last tenant in this building was the Tarrant County Bar Association.  I remember walking along rickety wooden floors in the interior, so I believe it needs some work done on the inside as well.

[Fort Worthology]

I, too, would love to see the Public Market used for something more interesting than office space.  However, given how it's been left in a soul-sucking concrete void by I-30 and its various ramps, I don't believe that will ever be the case again - it's just not a place anybody would want to go.  It has no surroundings, it has no connections.  It is no longer walkable, it is no longer pleasant to be around.  Office space is about the best we could hope for in its current location, barring somebody magically moving it to somewhere like Magnolia or South Main or something.

[johnfwd]

Interesting comparison (from TAD) of two of FW's notable downtown historic preservation buildings:  Public Market, 40,210 sq. ft., tax appraised value $2.4 million; T&P Warehouse, 549,452 sq. ft., $1.2 million tax appraised value.  Size isn't everything, I guess.  Of course, one was a railroad company warehouse, circa 1931; the other a public market, circa 1925.  Just FYI.

 

Can the new owners of the Public Market do anything to improve ingress and egress, parking etc.?