72 replies to this topic

[Austin55]

Talking the area squeezed between Forest Park, the river, and the bluff and I30. 

 

There's a property for sale here, and the marketing flyer mentions "Tentative architectural design completed for 10 stories and 245 units", shown here,

 

 

 

 

I've always been curious about this little pocket, it's been industrial for quite a while and likely always will be due to water plant being located there.It's geographically smack in between Downtown, Near South and the Cultural District, but not exactly easy to get to any of those due to the terrain and roads. Do you see potential for this area to turn more towards an urban path?

[John T Roberts]

I could be wrong here, but I don't see this area taking too much more of an urban path.  That is mainly due to access and somewhat isolation.

[renamerusk]

Talking the area squeezed between Forest Park, the river, and the bluff and I30. .....I've always been curious about this little pocket..... Do you see potential for this area to turn more towards an urban path?

 

I could be wrong here, but I don't see this area taking too much more of an urban path.  That is mainly due to access and somewhat isolation.

 

Don't you think or can assume that 

 

(1) the manner in which this is being market indicates that the broker believes that developer(s) should view this as an opportunity where land is cheaper than it would be in the CBD core and is also prime location?  Look closely and there is even a contact number fixed to the side of this speculative property, as though it is already in a preliminary stage.

 

(2)  the ingress/egress is feasible via the West Freeway@11th Avenue; and that the existing Forest Park @ West Peter Smith can be ugraded?

 

So, because of these two assumptions, I do believe that this is yet another example of how many potential "land mines"  "sprouts for growth" there are within the City; and even though these areas can be challenging,speculative capital can be surprising and can find some unexpected opportunities.   I think this area can urbanize; it is near highway, river and entertainment; I am curious why this pocket of restaurants has not expanded northward along Forest Park Avenue.

 

Austin 55, is this a photo shop of an apartments building or is it something that is in the works?

[Urbndwlr]

It is an awkward location, mostly because is totally disconnected from a pedestrian standpoint. 

I dont know if 1.5 acres is big enough, but I could see it becoming a limited service hotel who values highway exposure and cares less about walkable amenities. 

[renamerusk]

....I dont know if 1.5 acres is big enough, but I could see it becoming a limited service hotel who values highway exposure and cares less about walkable amenities. 

 

 I can see that totally. The I30/Forest Park district has always struck me as being underdeveloped.

[Austin55]

Austin 55, is this a photo shop of an apartments building or is it something that is in the works?

 

This is an example being used by the seller to market what a potential buyer could do with the site.

 

It is an awkward location, mostly because is totally disconnected from a pedestrian standpoint. 

I dont know if 1.5 acres is big enough, but I could see it becoming a limited service hotel who values highway exposure and cares less about walkable amenities. 

 

 

​funicular? aerial tram? sarcasm font?

 

I do agree it's a good auto oriented site, there's always going to be a demand for cheaper hotels outside but near the core. Might even be a good site for less costly residences as well.

 

The I30/Forest Park district has always struck me as being underdeveloped.

 

Agreed. I seem to remember it was even included as a site in the HQ2 pitch. Reminds me of the Topgolf area or Butler, very near downtown but disconnected in a lot of ways.

[txbornviking]

 

I do agree it's a good auto oriented site, there's always going to be a demand for cheaper hotels outside but near the core. Might even be a good site for less costly residences as well.

 

 

 

Kind of makes me think of the Hillside Apartments or The Depot just east of downtown. While they are physically closer to the downtown Core, the mental distance seems like a similar hurdle. 

 

One would have to get creative, but there is no doubt some solid potential on a site like this "southwest downtown" area. So easily accessible to the park, the trinity trails, near to downtown (especially if a trail were to link this lower area to the area near the Alexan Summit Apartments)...

[Doohickie]

I was going to respond earlier, then decided not to, but okay, let's put a few thoughts out there:

 

1. According to Google Maps there is a name for this neighborhood besides "far southwest downtown."  It's Sunset Terrace.  Interestingly, the only three single family homes in the area are in the parcel for sale.

 

2. I think it would be more attractive if Daggett were extended between Sunset Terrace and 11th Ave., providing non-freeway access to the area from Summit (not sure if the right-of-way could be secured although it looks like it might be there on Google Maps).

 

3. I know that sometimes water treatment plants can give off strong odors.  If this one does, I don't think this land is suitable for any kind of residential or retail use.  Who would want to go to a stinky neighborhood?  The prevailing south winds would carry any odors away from this spot but on those occasions when it swings back out of the north.... Pew!

 

4. Putting one apartment building there will not make it a "viable neighborhood."  I think to do that, there would need to be more land available for development... I'm thinking of the parcels bounded by Broadway & I-30, and 11th & 14th Aves., and also by Broadway & Daggett, and 11th & 15th Aves.  It looks like the latter parcel is a City of Fort Worth maintenance facility.  What would really make it viable would be to clear out the industrial buildings between the parcel for sale and Forest Park Blvd. 

 

5. If all the parcels above were cleared for development, I would suggest extending Broadway, Daggett and 15th Ave. to Forest Park Blvd. and make that the "front door" to the neighborhood, with a light at 15th and Forest Park (it looks like there's already a break in the median where 15th would intersect Forest Park).  I'd leave the median intact for the other two streets, allowing for right turns only in and out.  Allowing left turns along that bend, especially with the I-30 exit right there, could snarl traffic.

 

6. Extend 15th Ave. west of Forest Park, but as a bike trail only, and connect it with the planned east bank Trinity Trail.  Having easy access to the trail could make some light retail and eateries along Forest Park viable.

[renamerusk]

This thing [Hilton Garden Inn - Downtown]  has basically disappeared. No signs of construction. I'm curious if it hit a delay or what. They basically went through every needed planning body and even had permits to build.

 

 

It is an awkward location, mostly because is totally disconnected from a pedestrian standpoint. ...I dont know if 1.5 acres is big enough, but I could see it becoming a limited service hotel who values highway exposure and cares less about walkable amenities. 

 

 Should HGI be having some difficulties at its proposed site, this site looks like an excellent alternative.

[Jeriat]

Talking the area squeezed between Forest Park, the river, and the bluff and I30. 

 

There's a property for sale here, and the marketing flyer mentions "Tentative architectural design completed for 10 stories and 245 units", shown here,

 

 

 

 

I've always been curious about this little pocket, it's been industrial for quite a while and likely always will be due to water plant being located there.It's geographically smack in between Downtown, Near South and the Cultural District, but not exactly easy to get to any of those due to the terrain and roads. Do you see potential for this area to turn more towards an urban path?

 

 

Would be a good spot for my Forrest Park Station TexRail idea...

[Volare]

Regarding the water treatment plant, this is a freshwater treatment plant, not a wastewater plant, so no stinky odors around here.

[txbornviking]

Kinda-sorta near here, yesterday I noticed the former Pappas Burgers location has been demolished.

 

Any ideas what's going on there? Surely more than just expanding surface parking for the other Pappas restaurants right?

[Jeriat]

Kinda-sorta near here, yesterday I noticed the former Pappas Burgers location has been demolished.

 

Any ideas what's going on there? Surely more than just expanding surface parking for the other Pappas restaurants right?

 

...wait, what?

When did that happen? 

[Austin55]

Any ideas what's going on there? Surely more than just expanding surface parking for the other Pappas restaurants right?

 

Making room for hq2

[JBB]

Nope.  QT.

[renamerusk]

Nope.  QT.

 

Really?

 

How in the world would you be able to get to it, being that it is largely in a cul de sac.

 

And also, does anyone have any idea about why Parkview Tower Development never fully materialized.  I believed that it was once planned to have multiple buildings, some for which would be mid rises. It certainly could be another Museum Place.

[JBB]

Really?

[youngalum]

And also, does anyone have any idea about why Parkview Tower Development never fully materialized.  I believed that it was once planned to have multiple buildings, some for which would be mid rises. It certainly could be another Museum Place.

 

Environmental cleanup issues are a major hurdle for development in that area

[txbornviking]

Nope.  QT.

 

I thought the proposed QT was on Henderson...

[txbornviking]

 

Kinda-sorta near here, yesterday I noticed the former Pappas Burgers location has been demolished.

 

Any ideas what's going on there? Surely more than just expanding surface parking for the other Pappas restaurants right?

 

...wait, what?

When did that happen? 

 

 

I really think it happened yesterday. I drive west of downtown along I-30 everyday and it was the first I'd seen. 

[JBB]

The QT response was a joke.

[M2guy]

 

Kinda-sorta near here, yesterday I noticed the former Pappas Burgers location has been demolished.
 
Any ideas what's going on there? Surely more than just expanding surface parking for the other Pappas restaurants right?

 
...wait, what?

When did that happen? 
 

 
I really think it happened yesterday. I drive west of downtown along I-30 everyday and it was the first I'd seen. 

Yeah yesterday on my way in, there was a excavator parked on the east side of the building.

[Austin55]

Bud Kennedy said the land was cleared for more parking.

[Jeriat]

Bud Kennedy said the land was cleared for more parking.

 

Less exciting, but not surprising, either. 

[txbornviking]

Bud Kennedy said the land was cleared for more parking.

 

As I have lamented elsewhere, as if it's not bad enough how the Pappa's restaurants completely ignore their tremendous waterfront access, it now seems the ownership thinks that an additional 40 parking spaces or so will be more profitable than actually running a full on restaurant.

 

I'm continually astounded how neglected much of the area bounded by I-30, Forest Park, and Parkview Dr. seems to be.

Easy access to downtown and highways.

Great views of the park.

Soon to be trail-side location.

With a few extra bucks a developer could install a lovely pedestrian/cycle bridge between the properties and have the park as an "amenity." 

[renamerusk]

I'm continually astounded how neglected much of the area bounded by I-30, Forest Park, and Parkview Dr. seems to be....With a few extra bucks a developer could install a lovely pedestrian/cycle bridge between the properties and have the park as an "amenity." 

 

 

 Spot on!

[Volare]

 

Bud Kennedy said the land was cleared for more parking.

 

Less exciting, but not surprising, either. 

 

 

Three best/highest land uses in downtown: parking, bank, QT!

[Austin55]

Regarding the water treatment plant, this is a freshwater treatment plant, not a wastewater plant, so no stinky odors around here.

Volare, are you knowledge about this plant? How feasible would it be to relocate or close it?

[renamerusk]

 

Regarding the water treatment plant, this is a freshwater treatment plant, not a wastewater plant, so no stinky odors around here.

Volare, are you knowledge about this plant? How feasible would it be to relocate or close it?

 

 

 Under what circumstances would the City close, for what we know so far is, a productive water treatment plant?  If anything, the facility may need to be expanded to accommodate a growing population Downtown and in the inner neighborhoods. 

 

The problem that the City is bringing upon itself are the those associated with delivering sewer and water and strain caused by the insane and inefficient annexation of every developer's land deal dream that are 20-30 miles from the core of the City. 

[Austin55]

The land in the first post of this thread is going before zoning next week. This is now the 4th building over 10 floors to be proposed in the downtown area since the start of 2022. Note that the rendering in the first post is 10 floors.  

 

Owner / Applicant: Dalal 1000, LLC/ Samer Dalal
Proposed Use: Mixed- Use and Townhomes

Request: From: “J” Mediums Industrial

To: “PD/H” Central Business District with Brewery and Distillery with 10 story

height limit, site plan waived and DUDD overlay

The properties are currently vacant land the applicant would like to develop a 10 story mixed-use building and townhomees. 

https://www.fortwort...-and-docket.pdf



 

[roverone]

It is nice to see the potential of these kinds of projects is heating up.

 

Maybe they have changed the zoning again, but back when I looked things up to compare, I don't recall the language of Brewery and Distillery in the H zoning (although alcohol was a part of it) and it also did not have a height limit.  So I does that mean the actual intent is to include these things?

 

https://www.fortwort...wtopic=7244&hl=

 

I noticed this with my own place just in the last few days, but wandering around on Google Maps Street View, we are in the unusual time when the Street View is newer (last month) than the satellite view.  Looking around this area, you can see that there is a bulldozer that has cleaned a set of properties NE of this site on Broadway.

 

Playing around getting directions to and from this site to various places, the routing can seem circuitous in some cases, but it is not quite as bad as I expected.

[Nitixope]

Even though this is pretty seedy looking, would it be selfish of me to be concerned about how a 10-story plus building might block my view of the cultural district from I-30?

 

[Jeriat]

would it be selfish of me to be concerned about how a 10-story plus building might block my view of the cultural district from I-30?

 

 

 

...a little, yeah. 

[rriojas71]

would it be selfish of me to be concerned about how a 10-story plus building might block my view of the cultural district from I-30?

 
...a little, yeah.

I think it could also allow for an interesting framing affect of the CD when coming around the bend from downtown

[Nitixope]

Anyone know what this is? Is this some kind of non-public city-owned park / walking trail? Looks to be within the water treatment plant.

https://goo.gl/maps/HgsBUJg8CZVJPiTS6

[John T Roberts]

I don't know what it is, but I would guess that it is an open space/walking trail specifically for the use of the Water Treatment Plant employees.

[Austin55]

Ken Schaumberg is behind this. No renderings were shown, but he did say the building would be a striking, modern design. The 10-floor building would be 4 floors of parking, contain medical office, condos and, interestingly, a rooftop restaurant. The 26 townhomes would each be 3 floors.

 

[txbornviking]

Ken Schaumberg is behind this. No renderings were shown, but he did say the building would be a striking, modern design. The 10-floor building would be 4 floors of parking, contain medical office, condos and, interestingly, a rooftop restaurant. The 26 townhomes would each be 3 floors.

 

 

ambition 

[WTXKid]

The rooftop restaurant! Thats going to be a great view.

[JBB]

Ken Schaumberg is behind this. No renderings were shown, but he did say the building would be a striking, modern design. The 10-floor building would be 4 floors of parking, contain medical office, condos and, interestingly, a rooftop restaurant. The 26 townhomes would each be 3 floors.

It checks off a lot of boxes on your Schaumberg bingo card. Something could go in there soon, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on this one.

[roverone]

I just noticed that on that drawing it is labeled as Building 1-6.  Four of one size and then the two different narrower center buildings.

 

It is interesting to imagine how this works with the parking and building height.

[Jeriat]

This could finally be the spark that section of downtown needs. 

Now... as far as connectivity to the rest of downtown goes, I can see two ways:

- Work something out with St. Paul Lutheran and the adjacent neighborhood to the east for a pathway to Summit, or...

- Build a pathway along Forest Park and up to either Lancaster, West 7th or both. 

Either way, it would be a pain and just another small reminder of how short-sighted this city has been when it comes to development, but you would have a true connection. 

[Crestline]

Now... as far as connectivity to the rest of downtown goes, I can see two ways:

- Work something out with St. Paul Lutheran and the adjacent neighborhood to the east for a pathway to Summit, or...

- Build a pathway along Forest Park and up to either Lancaster, West 7th or both. 
 

 

You left out: extend Fournier Street south through a new tunnel excavated under Lancaster. 

[Jeriat]

 

Now... as far as connectivity to the rest of downtown goes, I can see two ways:

- Work something out with St. Paul Lutheran and the adjacent neighborhood to the east for a pathway to Summit, or...

- Build a pathway along Forest Park and up to either Lancaster, West 7th or both. 
 

 

You left out: extend Fournier Street south through a new tunnel excavated under Lancaster. 

 

I was thinking about doing it "the Fort Worth Way"... by which I mean finding the cheapest way possible. 

[JBB]

I saw something on a Twitter thread from this week's council meeting about a zoning case for a brewery in this area.  I've seen nothing else about it, so I'm not sure who it is and if it entails anything other than a brewery itself like a tap room.  I think it was on the corner of Wenneca and 14th if my memory serves me correctly.

[Nitixope]

I saw something on a Twitter thread from this week's council meeting about a zoning case for a brewery in this area.  I've seen nothing else about it, so I'm not sure who it is and if it entails anything other than a brewery itself like a tap room.  I think it was on the corner of Wenneca and 14th if my memory serves me correctly.

 

There's a Colonial Savings Warehouse planned at Wenneca Ave & 14th.

 

Record UFC21-0111: 

Urban Forestry

Record Status: Approved

https://accela.fortw...ShowInspection=

 

https://accela.fortw...ShowInspection=

 

2104 Wenneca Ave

[Austin55]

Kens project has a stipulation to include a brewery

[Doohickie]

This could finally be the spark that section of downtown needs.

 

There is a potential advocate nearby too.  Jim Zedah's law office is between this area and Summit Avenue, and will looking that area there's another law office:  Quentin McGown IV.  Is that the forum's own qmcgown?  But back to Jim Zedah, most of you probably know that he is Ann Zedah's husband, and Ann is all about encouraging urbanism.  So I wonder if Ann and Jim might get more involved in this little area.

[John T Roberts]

The Forum's qmcgown is indeed, the attorney.

[Volare]

 

Regarding the water treatment plant, this is a freshwater treatment plant, not a wastewater plant, so no stinky odors around here.

Volare, are you knowledge about this plant? How feasible would it be to relocate or close it?

 

 

Sorry I missed this question from 2018. Just noticed it now as the thread is resurrected. I toured the plant a few years back with someone who worked on some of the treatment systems under a contract from the city. It is a very old but integral plant, supplying the freshwater to the majority of the center city of Fort Worth. I think the prospects of closing it or moving it are about the same as closing or moving the UP Railyard located just a bit more to the west- nil.