205 replies to this topic

[eastfwther]

Here's a link to the article in the Fort Worth Business Press:

 

http://www.fortworth...56a358491f.html

 

The DMN article stated that the hotel will have 240 rooms.  This will certainly help fill the hotel room gap that we have.

This has always been one of my favorite buildings in DTFW and although I know it will make a beautiful hotel, I loved it as an office building. So I guess this is a testament to downtown's lack of corporate appeal as I guess there was never any attempt to market this building to potential office tenants.  But then again, if we keep turning our office space into hotels, that will keep downtown's office vacancy low.  So hooray.  

[John T Roberts]

I think the XTO Buildings were marketed to everyone.  Any developer that wanted to convert any of these buildings to hotels could do that on their own.  Most of the buildings remained office, while two are going to be converted into hotels. 

[JBB]

Theres a crane set up in the parking lot and what looks like the parts for a construction elevator.

[John T Roberts]

JBB, that makes sense.  The Sinclair had a construction elevator set up in the old alley.

[Austin55]

I sure wish there were more details on this.

[John T Roberts]

The fire escape on the exterior of the building is being used as a landing for the construction elevator.  I took this overall photo of the rear of the building this afternoon.  Also, it is a standard practice to number the floors on the plywood doors at the landings.  When converted to a hotel, the building will not have a 13th floor.  The former 20th floor at the top of the building is now labeled as the "21st Floor".

 

_DSC5027 by jtrobert, on Flickr

[rriojas71]

l don't know why, but I have always found the side with the lack of windows interesting.  I wonder if they have plans to change it

[Doohickie]

Probably not.  Another building could be built right next to it and occlude them.

[John T Roberts]

They will probably not change the window pattern.  The building is listed on the National Register of Historic Places, not as a Texas Recorded Historic Landmark, and only Demolition Delay with the City of Fort Worth.  Demolition Delay allows exterior renovations and changes without going before the Landmarks Commission.  The listing on the National Register also allows exterior changes, but any changes should be approved by the Texas Historical Commission acting as an agent for the National Parks Service.  If the changes were significant, they would express their concerns, but there would be nothing legally stopping changing that rear window pattern.  As Doohickie pointed out, another building could be built on the north side of the building.  However, the entire block was sold with the W.T. Waggoner Building. 

 

One of the reasons for the lack of windows is that there was once an older four story building sitting on the common property line to the north.  That's the reason there aren't any windows below that level.  Another reason there are few windows is that the building's core was located all along the north side.  If you remember, the two wings of the building have a lot of windows to allow light and air into the old offices.  I have been in the building a couple of times, but I never was able to see where those windows were actually located in relationship to the building's core elements.  I do know that immediately to the west of the entrance vestibule is a grand stair.  Then to the west of it are elevators.  The Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps indicate there are four elevators that are centered in the building.  That would lead me to believe that the four rows of windows are in each elevator shaft.  However, that doesn't exactly explain the windows at the half levels, nor the change in those windows to two at the regular floor levels on the upper portions of the building. 

 

Here's my guess on the windows.  The first window on the left is inside the stairway.  The second window is inside the first elevator occurring at every other floor.  The third window in the middle of the building and at the half levels is between elevator 2 and 3.  On the upper floors, the windows are in the shafts as the number jumps to two in this location.  The fourth window is in the final elevator shaft.  Before air conditioning, it was not uncommon to have windows in stairwells and in elevator shafts.  Now here's my explanation on why the window pattern changes from the half level in the middle to the regular level and two windows in the upper floors.  The building was originally planned to have only 16 stories, but the foundation was designed for 20.  The first renderings only show a 16 story building, but during construction, they decided to go ahead and built the upper four floors.  I think the architects changed the window pattern, once they decided to add the upper floors. 

 

Now, let's get back to changing the facade.  I have not seen the plans to the conversion to the hotel, so I can't actually tell you how they plan to bring the building up to the current codes.  This is required when you have a change of use, like from an office building to a hotel.  One thing that I know is that fire escape on the exterior of the building will have to go inside the walls, or become a fully sprinkled and rated stair enclosure on the exterior of the building.  If they don't build this on the north or west sides of the building as an addition, they might convert all of the old public restrooms on each floor into an interior stairway.  If they build a stairway as an addition, the Texas Historical Commission would have to approve the addition because they really couldn't fight the issue of the International Building Code.

[renamerusk]

l don't know why, but I have always found the side with the lack of windows interesting.  I wonder if they have plans to change it

 

Not as interesting as it is presents a real conundrum.

[RD Milhollin]

I could see this as an opportunity for Public Art: What about having a vintage IBM Paper Computer Card painted up the side of the building where the windows are partially lacking?

[renamerusk]

The Waggoner Block (H-T-7-8) will include the hotel but I believe it has the potential for an Residential Tower connected to the hotel and retail at the street levels also to be included.

[rriojas71]

I could see this as an opportunity for Public Art: What about having a vintage IBM Paper Computer Card painted up the side of the building where the windows are partially lacking?

I was going to say that it reminds me of a scantron card... lol...  However I do like your idea of public art.  It was be a great canvas for that

[renamerusk]

The HT78 Block is too valuable a location but for anything other than residential/retail development.  I'm envisioning a project to eventually come about with a bookcase building of equal height to WTW and this residential building might be associated with the hotel to provide support services to the residential component.  Along the Throckmorton side, parking with perhaps a street level micro plaza facing Throckmorton@7th. 

[Stadtplan]

I sure wish there were more details on this.

 

Austin55, 
I did a quick permit search and found some info on the current non-hotel work going on at 810 Houston.  Would appear the same architect that did AC Hotel is also doing the Sandman.  Would appear they are needing to go before the DDRB too and provide further documentation according to the Commercial New Accessory Structure Plan Review Comments....application submitted 10/26/20.

 

Record PB20-13303: Commercial Remodel Building Permit

 

https://accela.fortw...&agencyCode=CFW

 

Detailed Use: Hotel at levels 2-up Mixed use white box tenant spaces at mezzanine, ground floor, and basement

 

This permit is for plan revisions at basement, white boxing of future restaurant space at ground floor, and plan revisions at mezzanine that were excluded from the previous base building permit. In addition, scope of remodel work on the exterior includes:

• Stairwell addition on the North side of building from third floor to ground floor

• Removal of existing exterior metal fire escape

• Re-striping of parking lot lines (see also PB20-13751 Dumpster and PB20-15601 Porte Cochere)

 

CONSTRUCTION INFORMATION

• Total Job Value: $1,200,000

• Total Square Footage: 10,452

• Estimated Cost: $880,000.00

• Housing Units:0

 

Occupancy Classification:B

• Construction Type:IA

• Square Footage:314

• Occupant Load:21

• Use Description: Lunch Room (Basement)

 

Occupancy Classification:S-1

• Construction Type:IA

• Square Footage:3012

• Occupant Load:5

• Use Description: Storage/Mechanical/Laundry (Basement)

 

Occupancy Classification:B

• Construction Type:IA

• Square Footage: 846

• Occupant Load: 9

• Use Description: Offices/Receptionist (Ground Floor)

 

Occupancy Classification:A-2

• Construction Type:IA

• Square Footage:2604

• Occupant Load:174

• Use Description: Lounge Dining/Lobby/Banquet/Corporate Lounge (Ground Floor)

 

Occupancy Classification: A-2

• Construction Type:IA

• Square Footage:506

• Occupant Load:3

• Use Description: Prep Area/Bar (Ground Floor)

 

Occupancy Classification:A-2

• Construction Type:IA

• Square Footage:0

• Occupant Load:55

• Use Description: Bar Seats/Booth Seats (Ground Floor)

 

Occupancy Classification:B

• Construction Type:IA

• Square Footage:220

• Occupant Load:2

• Use Description: Fire Command (Ground Floor)

 

Occupancy Classification: M

• Construction Type:IA

• Square Footage:86

• Occupant Load:2

• Use Description: Market Place (Ground Floor)

 

Occupancy Classification:B

• Construction Type:IA

• Square Footage:500

• Occupant Load:5

• Use Description: Offices (Mezzanine Level)

 

Occupancy Classification:B

• Construction Type:IA

• Square Footage:981

• Occupant Load:66

• Use Description: All Meeting Rooms (Mezzanine Level)

 

Occupancy Classification:B

• Construction Type:IA

• Square Footage:675

• Occupant Load:14

• Use Description: Gym/Yoga (Mezzanine Level)

 

Occupancy Classification:R-1

• Construction Type:IA

• Square Footage:708

• Occupant Load:0

• Use Description: New North Stair Enclosure (3 floors)

 

TABS shows hotel project estimated at $16M.  That seems way too low.

https://www.tdlr.tex.../TABS2019018146

[John T Roberts]

These are the interior photographs that I took many years ago of the first floor and basement. It seems to me that this old bank lobby lends itself to becoming the lobby for the hotel.

 

http://www.fortworth...aggoner-int.htm

[Austin55]

The DDRB packet for next month has some schematics that give an idea of how the lower floors will be laid out,

 

 

It looks like the surface lot won't be going anywhere anytime soon, as a porte cochere is being built into the lot for vehicles on the West side and an extension for a stairwell on the North side. 

 

 

 

[John T Roberts]

The package looks good.  I was wrong about putting a full height stair addition on the building.  This stair addition is only three stories where the existing three story open stair portion would be separated from the open areas of the building on the lower levels.  It appears the stairway above is already enclosed.  Thanks for providing the link to the entire DDRB packet.  Now, everyone can look at the details on all of the projects.

 

It also appears that the height that I have for the building is incorrect on my Tallest Building page.  The height that I had listed is real close to the elevation of the main roof.  However, the mechanical penthouse and the elevator overrun are taller than the roof.

[John T Roberts]

I'm curious to see what the other forum members think about the modest changes to the exterior of the building and the lack of new construction on the remainder of the block.

[Austin55]

Color renderings from the DDRB packet. 

 

 

[Jeriat]

...really hoping they're not just going to leave that remaining lot untouched.

[Dylan]

The proposed canopy leads me to believe they have no intentions of replacing the surface lot with something else.

 

Very unfortunate.

[NThomas]

I'm curious to see what the other forum members think about the modest changes to the exterior of the building and the lack of new construction on the remainder of the block.

Late to the conversation here, but topical with the DDRB meeting today for the porte cochere.

I think the highest and best use for the remainder of the block is still being preserved. There could have easily been a modest low-rise building tacked along Houston Street for back of house or meeting space similar to the the Winfree Building in relation to The Ashton Hotel.

I'm not going to make any friends here with this suggestion, but with the nearly windowless wall and two full two aisles of parking, the north portion of the block is destined (maybe doomed?) for a parking structure similar to Sundance Square Garage 3 and the Chase Building.

[Austin55]

Up in the DDRB again, this time for signage. Two rooftop signs on the North and West sides are part of the proposals and waivers needed. 

https://www.fortwort...gn-review-board

[John T Roberts]

I am against the two large crown of building signs.  They detract from the building, and are not historically accurate.  The building never had signs up there. 

[Stadtplan]

I am against the two large crown of building signs.  They detract from the building, and are not historically accurate.  The building never had signs up there. 

John, have you ever spoken in opposition on any cases at the DDRB? I hear them give that opportunity for those registered to speak in favor or opposition and from time to time will have someone from the community take them up on it.

[Austin55]

The signage looks pretty awful.

[John T Roberts]

Nitixope, I have presented cases being the applicant, supported cases, and opposed cases, before the DDRB.  However, I have not made any presentations since everything went virtual.

[John T Roberts]

The Downtown Design Review Board voted to deny the Crown of Building Signage at the W.T. Waggoner Building and voted to continue the case for the base of building signage. 

[Austin55]

Thank goodness.

[Austin55]

Been a while since we've heard anything on this. It looks like exterior work may be wrapping up fairly soon. Waiting patiently for an opening date!

The DFWI description sounds like the lobby will be preserved. Can't wait to see how it looks. https://www.dfwi.org...signature-hotel
 

 

The W.T. Waggoner Building was built in 1920 for William Thomas Waggoner, owner of Waggoner Ranch, one of Texas’ largest properties when it sold in 2016. It was one of the tallest buildings in the southwestern U.S. at the time of its completion. Architecturally, it is known for its ornate entrance lobby. The high-rise is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

 

New hotel suites are designed for levels 2 through 21, with meeting and fitness spaces on mezzanine level, a restaurant and bar on ground level, and future lease space at basement level. Historic interior finishes are being protected and restored at all common levels and elevator lobbies. The historic exterior design will also remain unchanged and protected.

[John T Roberts]

I always thought the old bank and building lobbies would be preserved.  It would have been crazy for any owner to remove those interior elements.  I don't know if this was a tax credit project, but if it was, that is when the Texas Historical Commission can regulate the work on the historic building on behalf of the State and Federal Governments.  It is also good to know that other historic interior elements are also being preserved. 

 

It sounds like all of the work is similar to what was done on The Sinclair Building.  However, the Sinclair was a tax credit project with all three levels of government.  The W.T. Waggoner Building is not a City of Fort Worth Landmark, so unless they upgrade from Demolition Delay, they will not receive any tax incentives from the City of Fort Worth.

 

For the record, of all of the beautiful downtown buildings, the W.T. Waggoner was the only one with its bank and building lobbies virtually intact, prior to restoration.  All of the other buildings only had anywhere from mostly intact lobbies, to totally demolished lobbies, with some spaces radically altered, in addition to interior demolition.  This is only the case for the bank buildings.  Even though a lot of restoration work had to be done, the Texas & Pacific Railway Terminal's public spaces were basically intact.  When I am referring to radically altered spaces, in addition to interior demolition, I am referring to the infilling of floors from 2 or 3 story lobbies.  Examples of this are the Bob R. Simpson Building (First National Bank), and the Kimpton Harper Hotel (Farmers & Mechanics National Bank).  The Hotel Texas also had its lobby infilled and interior finishes removed, but in 1981, the "space" was opened up and restored to the best of the architect's ability.

[Stadtplan]

Not that this is very accurate, but looks like they could have at least another year left on the construction schedule based on the TDLR entry:

 

PROJECT

Project Name: Waggoner Building Hotel

Project Number: TABS2019018146

Facility Name: Waggoner Building

Location Address: 810 Houston Street

Fort Worth, TX 76102

Location County: Tarrant

Start Date: 9/2/2019

Completion Date: 8/31/2022

Estimated Cost: $16,000,000

Type of Work: Renovation/Alteration

Type of Funds: This project is privately funded, on private land for private use.

Scope of Work: Change of Use from Business Office Tower to Hotel

Square Footage: 91,884 ft 2

[John T Roberts]

On long term construction projects, our TDLR completion estimates are usually not very accurate.  When I fill my TDLR applications out, more often than not, I under estimate the completion date.  I also usually try to pad the time, somewhat, to give the contractor time to finish the construction.  Many times, I have requested an extension for that date.  On my school projects, I am usually very close on the estimation, because school projects usually have to be complete by the start of a school's year in September.  On small projects, I usually don't have any time delays and I hit the mark.

[Stadtplan]

As far as dining options, do you think that one of Northland's other brands will be included in this project?

 

[Shanedallas76]

Would anyone know where I can find the most accurate estimated total cost of this project?

[JBB]

Permit 3 posts up says $16 million.

[Stadtplan]

The Sandman is still under construction? That has to be one of the slowest projects around. 36-months in the construction world is a real slow burner (revenue). Essentially, you end up spreading the revenue over three fiscal years and keeping a team tied up. Loews Hotel has a similar duration but is 888 rooms, ground-up.

DMN mentioned they (Northland) requested up to $8M in improvements from the city for landscaping, utilities and historical preservation.

https://www.dallasne...l-be-new-hotel/

[John T Roberts]

The Sandman is still under construction as of two weeks ago.  That was the last time I was near the building.

[Austin55]

They have yet to share an opening date.

[Stadtplan]

Sandman Hotel Sign Permits:

https://accela.fortw...ShowInspection=
Sign C2 SF illuminated pan sign Sandman
Install (1) SS lighted pan sign that spells "Sandman Hotel" SW elevation

https://accela.fortw...ShowInspection=
Sign A5 Fabric awning on existing canopy
Install (1) fabric awning that spells "Sandman Signature" on existing canopy

https://accela.fortw...ShowInspection=
Sign A1 Illuminated DF blade sign Hotel
Install (1) DF illuminated blade sign that spells "Hotel" on EAST corner of building

https://accela.fortw...ShowInspection=
Sign D1 SF illuminated pan sign Sandman
Install (1) SF illuminated pan sign NW elevation that spells "Sandman Hotel"

https://accela.fortw...ShowInspection=
Sign A4 Non Illuminated plaque historic marker
Install (1) bronze plaque NE elevation that spells "W.T. Waggoner Building"

https://accela.fortw...ShowInspection=
Sign A3 Non Illuminated plaque Sandman
Install (1) SS plaque that spells "Sandman Signature Hotel"

https://accela.fortw...ShowInspection=
Sign A2 Illuminated DF blade sign Musume
Install (1) DF illuminated blade sign that spells "Musume"

[Austin55]

Putting the porte-cochère in now.

 

[John T Roberts]

We briefly talked about the building on yesterday's Downtown Fort Worth Walking Tour while we were heading back to the T&P, but we didn't see the porte-cochère construction on the west side.  With this new element, it appears they are moving forward toward opening.

[Stadtplan]

Are the signs up?

[John T Roberts]

There aren't any signs on the building as of today.

[Austin55]

The Sandman's website is live. The earliest dates available to book it Feb 14, 2023. 

 

https://www.sandmanh...lebration-offer

[roverone]

More porte-cochère progress from yesterday:

 

[John T Roberts]

Back when this case went before the DDRB, I downloaded the file from the City's website.  I was looking at the drawings again this morning, and I didn't even realize that there was an entire section through the building that was cut in the middle floors, just showing the bottom of the building with  the historic lobby and the roof and top of the building.  A VP at XTO told me the building was 230 feet tall.  From looking at it on the skyline, I figured that it was to the main parapet or the main roof.  The dimensioned section of the building actually shows the main level of the roof to be 236 feet above the finished first floor, with the elevator overrun extending upward from that point.  I used my measuring capabilities on my Adobe Acrobat and determined that the penthouse was 19 feet tall from the main roof.  That puts the overall height of the building at 255 feet above the finished floor at the entry.  This moves the building upward a couple of spots on the tallest building list.

[Stadtplan]

The Sandman's website is live. The earliest dates available to book it Feb 14, 2023. 
 
https://www.sandmanh...lebration-offer

This has to be the slowest project on Planet Earth. On Google, their listing says open November but here we are its November. So you think they will be ready in February for a soft opening or is that happening sooner?

[Austin55]

Its been just about 4 years since construction started.
My understanding is February is the planned opening date.