228 replies to this topic

[DrkLts]

A posting that inspired this topic...

Dallas people were coming to the AXIS because they booked lots of bands that were popular in Dallas. Several musician friends of mine even commented the bands were dependant on Dallas fans, because FW just isn't a live music type town and just isn't known for supporting rock venues. I lived in FW for two looong years ('98-'99) and I know what he's talking about. Which was the main reason why I had to move. As a young man in my early 20's, moving here from the east coast, FW was just boring. And from what I hear from people in that age range now, it still hasn't changed. People will use phrases like cute and nice to describe downtown, but cool or hip, I've yet to hear. I spend time in FW still because of work and relatives and sometimes just for something different . And I will admit, it has gotten a little, and I mean a little better. But even when I mention I'm going to FW for the weekend, I still get the same old responses like "why??" or "what is there to do in FW?". I'm not from Dallas or FW, so I have no allegiance to either city, but compared to FW, Dallas is like New York City. Where else would people devote this much time discussing a Super Target???

[DrkLts]

FW just isn't a live music type town and just isn't known for supporting rock venues. I lived in FW for two looong years ('98-'99) and I know what he's talking about.

Did someone forget to tell you about the Ridglea Theater or the Ardvark? Both clubs offer regional and national acts that attract big crowds. I been going for years to hear some hard rock. Ridglea has had national acts I've been to such as Stryper, Damageplan, Mudvayne, Powerman5000, Type-O-Negative, H.I.M, CKY, Less than Jake, Insane Clown Posse, Bloodhound Gang, and more.
Switchfoot will be there March 21st & Alkaline Trio April 5th acording to their site.

Yeah Axis might be closed/closing, but so did TREES in Dallas and from what I hear Deep Ellum area is dying. Maybe that's a bit exaggerated, but for a great music scene area, thats not too great a reputation for a HIP & COOL spot

Edited by DrkLts, 30 January 2006 - 04:25 PM.

[cjyoung]

FW just isn't a live music type town and just isn't known for supporting rock venues. I lived in FW for two looong years ('98-'99) and I know what he's talking about.

Did someone forget to tell you about the Ridglea Theater or the Ardvark? Both clubs offer regional and national acts that attract big crowds. I been going for years to hear some hard rock. Ridglea has had national acts I've been to such as Stryper, Damageplan, Mudvayne, Powerman5000, Type-O-Negative, H.I.M, CKY, Less than Jake, Insane Clown Posse, Bloodhound Gang, and more.
Switchfoot will be there March 21st & Alkaline Trio April 5th acording to their site.

Yeah Axis might be closed/closing, but so did TREES in Dallas and from what I hear Deep Ellum area is dying. Maybe that's a bit exaggerated, but for a great music scene area, thats not too great a reputation for a HIP & COOL spot

I don't care what you compare it to, Dallas ain't NYC or Chicago or LA or Miami or even Las Vegas. In fact, having spent time in all of these cities, they can be pretty boring too, if you don't know where to go.

I would ask the person who says that Fort Worth is boring to tell me what you are looking for?
Beautiful women? Yeah, we got them. All night parties (I used to throw the best )? Yeah, we got that. Ballroom dancing ? A place to get messed up drunk? Drugs? Sex? We got them too?

So, if we're such boring ass people, why would you spend time in this forum?

[DrkLts]

I just edited my post that came before cjyoung's reply. In cjyoung reply, he quoted my post quoting "myself"...Ooops! that was SUPPOSE to be me quoting vjackson. It won't show up edited on cjyoung's post, so re-read mine. Did I confuse anyone???

[vjackson]

CJ, chill. Whatever I say is just my opinion, and means nothing. No need to get offended. I visit this forum because urban development is of huge interest to me....even in FW. And for the record, I have a great affection for FW...I just couldn't live there. And yes Drklts, I am very aware of the Ridglea and Aarvark, both of which have good shows occasionally, but they are too infrequent. Deep Ellum is going through a rough period right now, and Trees' closing is unfortunate. But Trees lasted over ten years, how long did the Axis stay open?? Also with the problems in DE, there's now more live music all over town now. I didn't want to piss anyone off with my post and I hate to sound like I don't like FW, because I really do, it just didn't meet my social and entertainment needs. But I lived in a friendly neighborhood, and made many great friends. FW was..and still is just too slow for me.

[DrkLts]

CJ, chill. Whatever I say is just my opinion, and means nothing. No need to get offended. I visit this forum because urban development is of huge interest to me....even in FW. And for the record, I have a great affection for FW...I just couldn't live there. And yes Drklts, I am very aware of the Ridglea and Aarvark, both of which have good shows occasionally, but they are too infrequent. Deep Ellum is going through a rough period right now, and Trees' closing is unfortunate. But Trees lasted over ten years, how long did the Axis stay open?? Also with the problems in DE, there's now more live music all over town now. I didn't want to piss anyone off with my post and I hate to sound like I don't like FW, because I really do, it just didn't meet my social and entertainment needs. But I lived in a friendly neighborhood, and made many great friends. FW was..and still is just too slow for me.

Speaking for myself, I never got offended at all. I just wanted to make it clear that we do have some good music venues around. David also proves what I see all the time, crowds packing clubs all over downtown. I was there Friday night and saw a line for one club that made one think a rock star was making an appearance. lol I remember reading somewhere on this forum along time ago, someone took a few friends from Dallas over to Sundance Square and had a blast. They now come often as they can I also read. vjackson, your not the only one to think FW isn't too fun, I have lots of friends that would side with your opinion. You're not alone.

I also have a thing about reading travel forums, reading posts from out-of-towners that rate both Dallas and Fort Worth on separate threads and SUPRISINGLY, people find FORT WORTH a BETTER place to visit than Dallas. (Not trying to start a FW vs D) but just reading comments like that prove were arent a sleepy town anymore. Fun & entertainment can be had in FW. I think I will cut and paste some of those comments to share with you guys. You'll be suprised people DO think FW is HIP & COOL.

[DrkLts]

^^^ One of the few times I ever say this.....SAD BUT TRUE
but I argee with you ghughes....weird can be cool

[DrkLts]

As promised, great reviews from visitors to Fort Worth that had LOTS of fun fun fun!
From TripAdvisor.com someone from Chicago posted this.....

mportr1
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17
From: chicago
Posted on: 12:20 pm, Nov 21, 2005

Fort Worth, in general: A
Downtown area was very quiet during the day, but has a very busy nightlife. Great restaurants and bars. The stockyards was a neat place to hang out as well.

Courtyard Blackstone: C
Good location, very friendly staff and great beds BUT the rooms are ridiculously tiny. I know you don't spend much time in your room, but even with just my fiance and I, it was hectic getting ready at the same time because you can barely turn around- it's so small. Also, we were only there for the weekend but we did not get any maid service and the front desk, very friendly, but screwed up our reservation a few times and we had to get our key reset twice. So overall it was not horrible, but not great.

Flying Saucer: A
Loved the atmosphere. So many beers to choose from. We sat in the beer garden (tented off for the colder weather) and listened to a fun band. They say they are trying to branch out to Chicago- I hope so!

Riscky's (BBQ not Steakhouse): B
Food was not bad, not great. Good location.

H3 (Hunters Brothers) restaurant: A+++
Phenomenal! Loved the atmosphere. Fiance had a ribeye and I had the prime rib! Yum. Best I've ever had. And the margaritas! Oh yeah!!! I had a regular margarita for $5.95 and it was really good, but my fiance had the top shelf, $8.50 margarita- again best I've ever had. We loved this restaurant so much we went back for breakfast the next morning. Flapjacks were great. Juice comes in a frosted mug. Soooo good.
White Elephant was cool too, but we didn't stay long- only had a drink while waiting for dinner. Probably a great place in the warmer months so you can hang out on the second floor beer garden and watch the crowds go by.
We wanted to go to Billy Bob's after dinner but food coma set in and changed our minds. Next time!
Overall, we had a good time in Fort Worth. This Chicagoan plans to go back with some friends to go honky tonkin!! TripAdvisor.com FW reviews

[DrkLts]

Again from TripAdvisor a Canadian wrote.....

canadarose
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30
From:canada
Posted on: 8:02 pm, Apr 19, 2005

My husband and i just returned from a visit to texas, and having stayed both in dallas and fw, I have to say FW was definitely our favourite. We went to both sundance area and stockyards. If you like cooutry music, you'll love billy bob's. if you can'stay right in the area, some nearby hotels offer comp shuttles. The whole atmosphere in FW was more pleasant. However, you'll almost certainly have to rent a car. Public transportation as you know it is almost non existent. Everything is very spread out. We hired a car with "neverlost" a satellite system that would guide you to your destination. People there are friendly, food is good, and prices reasonable. hope you enjoy your trip!

[DrkLts]

from Houston.....

nunusguy
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2
From:Houston
Posted on: 2:39 pm, Aug 18, 2005

As a Houstonian who likes N.Texas and likes to visit the area,
I'm always puzzled why Dallas gets so much credit and FtW gets so little ? For example, what attraction is there in Dallas besides the Kennedy memorial ? It is my understanding that
Arlington is part of FtWorth and they have the Rangers and soon will have the Cowboys.

Ft Worth has a vibrant, expanding
downtown while Dallas has a decaying central bus district. The
stockyards, Billy Bobs, and Texas Morter Spedway are all in
Ft Worth. Furthermore, the Amon Carter Museum is the #1
cultural attraction in N.Texas and yup, its in Ft.Worth. And here
is maybe the best one of all, the top component of the N.Texas
econ infrastructure, DFW airport - most of it within the city of
FtWorth, but not 1 sq in is in Dallas city limits. How come Ft Worth doesn't get some credit for all the nice things in N.Texas.

[DrkLts]

Yahoo! Travel

I love Cowtown
by A Yahoo! User from New york
04/07/05

Fort Worth, Texas is the best and most livable city, not only in Texas, but in the whole world. Cowtown has exellent museums, I love Camp Bowie Street. University Road is awesome, specially because it's near TCU.
Down Town is the best and the stockyards are so rich in so much that it is very historic and with great detail in architecture. The people are very friendly and it would be nice to live there. I can't wait for the Trinity River Vision and iI can't wait to come back and visit the great Cowtown.
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Way better than Dallas!!!!
by A Yahoo! User from Philadelphia, PA
12/03/05

Ft. Worth is way much better than Dallas! Ft Worth is much safer, laid back, no beggars and panhandlers, and rarely any aggressive drivers! The reasons I liked Ft Worth is lots of great history. It's one of the first livestock areas in the nation, and cattle heard areas. Great Western heritage, the stockyards is a great place to go to! Especially for kids. Sundance Square downtown is a great area and very safe. The people there are so friendly to you and helpful! The only negatives about ft. worth is it's smoggy, and the roads are very bad and deteriorated and need to be fixed especially I-820. Other than that very Reccomended!
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Just moved to Fort Worth
by A Yahoo! User from Fort Worth
01/26/06

I recently moved to Fort Worth, Texas from Charlotte, North Carolina.
Fort Worth is a very beatiful and fun city to live in. There is a lot of things to do in this city all the time. Downtown Fort Worth is so vibrant with a whole bunch of restaurants, theatres, stores, boutiques, shows to watch, cinemas, icecream shops and museums, also known as sundance square.
Camp Bowie is an awesome place to live at and visit.FORT WORTH IS ALSO ONE OF THE MOST SAFEST CITIES. The museums at the cultural district is umbelivable and the stockyards at the historic district.
Fort Worth just keeps on growing in everything including the population.
I really recommend for everyone to move to Fort WORTH, this fine, great city.
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We cant wait to go back
by A Yahoo! User from Curtis, Ohio
09/21/05

Friendly people and lots to do. Close enough to Dallas that there is something for everyone. Never bored. Great food and service. Watch out you might even see an armadillo.
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Probably best city in Texas
by pk20220 from Alexandria, VA
12/26/05

I visited Fort Worth and Dallas this past May for the first time. Like many viewers I believe there is definitely more to see than Dallas. While Dallas is overbuilt and has very little cultural or historical significance, Fort Worth is the opposite. You get a taste of western culture here. I enjoyed the Stockyards. There are lots of museums. There is very little traffic. It has the small town type of feel. Housing is cheap.
________________________________

Best Kept Secret
by A Yahoo! User from Virgina Beach, VA
10/03/05

For the 19th largest city in the US it is incredibly accessible and friendly. You can get from anywhere to anywhere quickly and easily, and there are a lot of places you need to see. 1) the cultural distict with The Modern and Amon Cater Museums are both world class. The surronding area and Camp Bowie Blvd are incredible lots of Returants Pubs and shops. 2) Fort Worth has one of the safest most beautiful and fun downtown areas in the world. 3) Historic Stock Yard district I reccommend this 3rd because if you visit the other areas first you will see that it is no longer just a cowtown an the get an appreciation for the historic architecture and rich western heritage.
________________________________

Anyone impressed with visitor's comments so far?

[DrkLts]

vjackson, I know you moved to Dallas for a more faster pace in fun, but some visitors felt about Dallas as you did about FW in regards to slow paced action (well at least you were nicer about it lol). From Yahoo! Travel Dallas reviews (kinda harsh!). These are their words, not mine.....

Welcome to Ghost-town,USA
by A Yahoo! User from Ohio
01/22/05

I spent 5 days in Dallas and the entire place is a ghost-town after 4pm.The homeless out number everyone else 2 to 1.I've never been to a city where most of the fast food places close at 3pm with the excetion of the 1 Mcdonalds.Very pricy to get around too,the only real nice thing is the weather.
__________________________

Can't Stand Dallas
by Mike from Dallas, TX
03/22/05

After living here for approx. 8 months, I am planning on my next move, preferably to a smaller, saner city. Dallas is okay when visiting for a couple of days, but for living on a daily basis sucks. For somebody that wants more out of life than huge malls, freeways going in every direction, unfriendly people, corporate highrises, lack of culture, etc. look elsewhere. It's funny how there are actually people living here that think Dallas is such a great place! I almost have to laugh. I think I would rather live in the middle of the desert.
__________________________


The big D as in Dump
by A Yahoo! User from Seattle, WA
04/12/05

I am not pleased with Dallas. This city has horrible drivers they cut you off, don't signal and tailgate you! Its too flat,I have never seen so many beggars in my life ask money from you wherever you go! And too many homeless. Oak cliff is a nasty area too ghetto. But the skyline is beautiful at night. And a lot of choices where to eat, and good mall selection. Overall I don't like Dallas. I suggest Arlington/Ft Worth more safer and the people are very friendly!!! And much better drivers! I'd rather live in Chicago than Dallas.
__________________________

Overrated city
by jd from New York, NY
03/26/05

For a person who resides in the cultural wasteland of the Midwest, Dallas can seem like a huge city. Redeeming values of Dallas includes numerous eateries and several excellent Tex-Mex restaurants. Outside the downtown (which is dead after 5:00 p.m.), there is no cool city neighborhoods or unique ethnic enclaves like NYC. In fact, outside downtown, the city of Dallas has a suburban atmosphere with ubiquitous malls, cookie cutter strip-malls, etc. The uptown neighborhood along Mc Kinney Avenue is nothing like Lincoln Park in Chicago or the Village in NYC.

In summary, I only enjoy visiting Dallas to see friends and eat Tex-Mex (to Dallas's credit, million times better than Tex-Mex in NYC).
___________________________

It just gets WORSE, but there were few "good and great" comments every now and then.

Like I said, not to be a FW vs D war, but I threw in some "not-so-nice" Big D reviews just to prove that a HIP & COOL city is in the Eye of the Beholder and opinions differ. Not all rumors are true that you have to leave FW to have a real good time

[SurplusPopulation]

Ladies and gentlemen... DrkLts! My new favorite person. Those were great fun. Let's all read through these again sometime. Careful though, some on here will feel it their personal responsibility to search out negative quotes in order to put FtW into the "proper" perspective. But I had a blast reading them because that's how I look at FtW and obviously others get "it".

[Dismuke]

Observe the percentage of those postings in praise of Fort Worth which mention Fort Worth's history and historic architecture.

The historic - particularly the early decades of the 1900s - is where it is at, I tell you, in terms of what is really cool and hip and I think that trend will only continue. The sanitized blandness of post World War II modernism has reached its own dead end. After a point, there was nothing left to further sanitize or strip away. People are yearning for something more substantive and which has a sense of grandeur.

The renaissance in appreciation for good architecture is an early sign of what I think is going to be an ongoing trend. And the good news is, I think, it will eventually find its way into music and night life as well. People will rediscover that the music of the past not only had a good beat - it had melody - and this is what gives music its very wide range of emotional expressiveness. I think the music of the future will be very much inspired by and use as its starting point the music of the past. Being "hip" is NOT "doing what everyone else does." Being "hip" means to be ahead of the trends. Therefore, for several decades, when aesthetic and cultural trends were in a free fall, being "hip" meant increasingly pushing the envelope in terms of being freakish, weird and nihilistic. Thus the scruffier a person's clothes and hair, the more obnoxiously "in your face" they were, the more vulgar their language and the louder the noise they produced, the more stoned out on drugs they were, the more they were considered "hip" and "with it." But since things have probably hit rock bottom and are on their way back up, that will increasingly be less and less the case. Those who seek to wear nice clothes and enhance their appearance, who have nice manners and who come across as articulate and sane, will increasingly be regarded as the "hip" trend setters- and they will listen to a form of music which evokes an entirely different set of emotions. When young people go out for a night on the town, the will be seeking a certain amount of elegance to go along with their fun - something which is very much lacking in most nightclubs these days.

Bookmark this posting and check back in a few decades - I think you will very likely find that I am right.

[DrkLts]

Ladies and gentlemen... DrkLts! My new favorite person. Those were great fun. Let's all read through these again sometime. Careful though, some on here will feel it their personal responsibility to search out negative quotes in order to put FtW into the "proper" perspective. But I had a blast reading them because that's how I look at FtW and obviously others get "it".

Thanks Surplus!
I'm glad you enjoyed, hope others will too. I was worried I was over-doing it. lol
As far as finding the negative comments, I couldn't find any. The only way to find any, is to try your best searching for 'em (not recomended) Haha.

People will use phrases like cute and nice to describe downtown, but cool or hip, I've yet to hear.

Is this close enough?.....

Yeeah-hooo!
by A Yahoo! User from Colorado Springs, Colorado
09/26/05

Fort Worth has some of the friendliest people in Texas. I am not a very aggressive driver so the freeways we a little unnerving for me. Overall they have some of the coolest downtown bars and resturants. not to mention the awsomely serviced hotels.
________________________________
This one is just a bonus I'll thow in.....

Neat Place
by A Yahoo! User from Cross Plains Texas
03/29/05

In many respects Ft. Worth is much better than Dallas for visitors. They have one of the best downtown areas you would want to visit at night, free from the fear of being mugged or robbed, lots of nice restaurants, afine library blocks away, movie theatres on two corners. You can go to downtown Ft Worth and stay there and enjoy yourself.
If you would rather explore, then the highways in Ft. Worth are easily driven without traffic jams. You can get around in Ft. Worth fairly easily.
The only negatives I could see with vacationing in Ft. Worth is the lack of 5 star restaurants, and the lack of various types of hotels. Ft. Worth has only one really nice hotel, the Worthington. It has many smaller hotels, but they are either not the quality or are more expensive than other cities in the area.
When i visit Ft. Worth I usually stay in Arlington and drive to visit Ft. Worth.

[safly]

Look, all of ya'll are just haters. Fw and Dallas have both (-) and (+)'s about it. FW does not have the West End, Gingerman, Farmer's Market, pro-sports or quite the music scene. Case in point AXIS. Dallas does not have the Rodeo bit, Bass Hall, Stockyards complex, and cheaper steaks or marg's.

So both cities have their greatness and shortcomings to ALL. As for AXIS the owner wanted to bring a scene to that end of town, and kudos to that effort, but it just did not work out and now he is back to doing what he does best here, restaurants. It was an experimental effort and I hope one day that end of DTFW does get a huge developmental kick. It was too independent of the DTFW scene. Whereas West End could be near it's own and by Oak Lawn area and survive among it's own market share, apart form Deep Ellum, the AA Center and the Galleria.

Those boneheads from Chicago have no idea what they have in their city to offer and to ANTICIPATE a Flying Saucer to move in on RAM'S turf out in Chicago is just mind boggling. Chicago suburbs have more micro-breweries in their NW section than all of N.Texas. Kiddin me.

I love living in FW, but don't mind the latenight scene in The Big "D". That is why we need fast mass transit to and fro til 4am.

I am sure people from outside are hating on Big "D" because it's the Big "D" and everyone has higher expectations from it. It just seemed like FW was more of a discovery to them, I don't think that the intention was to pin it as a destination of choice, just the better one for the vicinity, for the time. I don't recall the posts containing sites visited in Dallas, which is befuddling. Because their are waaaay more sites to visit in Dallas than FW, IMHO.

All do agree that FW is safer in proportion to density and kid-friendly too.

FW should be more ECONOMICAL as far as tourism is concerned. Besides, I don't the whole "Fear of getting mugged part". If you are to venture about in Downtown Dallas, you have a lot more RE to cover than just our DTFW version, Sundance Square. Dallas could create their own pastel colored, coca cola cowboy, whitewashed picket fenced version if they wanted. But I see the Victory Arts center making more of an imposing area of interest in their future. and that micro-managed space will be SAFE to venture about too, much like our SS. So enough with the whole "fear" of being mugged whawhaing. Bunch of babies. I bet if you ventured off to seedy no-lit places near the FW Trinity River or the Medical District area, you might get mugged too. WORD.

[DrkLts]

Look, all of ya'll are just haters. Fw and Dallas have both (-) and (+)'s about it.

safly, yeah common sense tells us that. it's just that it's popular belief to quite alot of people that FW's minus's (laid back cowtown is dull and boring) and Dallas's pluses (party town, glamourous living) is constantly magnified that way. I was just trying to raise FW's minus and lower Dallas's plus to meet somewhere in the middle to show that both cities are't that far apart in opinions about each cities' entertaiment value. No matter how many times I try to put FW on some kind of pedistal, someone kicks at the foot of the base.

[safly]

Well than next time just mention the Dallas Cowboys. Both cities gotta luv them COWBOYS.
That's a common ground to start with. Fashion, nah. Horses, nah.

[Dismuke]

FW should be more ECONOMICAL as far as tourism is concerned. Besides, I don't the whole "Fear of getting mugged part". If you are to venture about in Downtown Dallas, you have a lot more RE to cover than just our DTFW version, Sundance Square. Dallas could create their own pastel colored, coca cola cowboy, whitewashed picket fenced version if they wanted. But I see the Victory Arts center making more of an imposing area of interest in their future. and that micro-managed space will be SAFE to venture about too, much like our SS. So enough with the whole "fear" of being mugged whawhaing. Bunch of babies. I bet if you ventured off to seedy no-lit places near the FW Trinity River or the Medical District area, you might get mugged too. WORD.

The problem Dallas faces, however, is that tourists do not judge a city by how safe it is to walk though its Medical District or in isolated, infrequently visited parks by a river. They do judge a city by its downtown - and in downtown Dallas, that impression is, sadly, not a pleasant one for someone not familiar with the area. I love it - but only because I know where all the cool old buildings are and I overlook the ugly parking lots and ignore the buildings which are abandoned or have doorways which smell of urine. I try to ignore the panhandlers. Tourists have a hard time seeing past such things.

There are people in downtown Dallas working really hard to try and turn it back into a nice place - and I hope they are successful. Part of the difficulty they face is that downtown Dallas does not have quite the concentration of buildings which are attractive to pedestrians and tourists to the degree Fort Worth does. Dallas tore down many such buildings decades ago and replaced them with parking lots and cold and unfriendly modern stuff.

And when you go outside the older parts of the city - ask yourself what Dallas has to offer a tourist that cannot be just as easily found in Atlanta or Houston?

What makes Fort Worth unique is that it is unique as compared to other cities in this part of the country. Because the city, for whatever reason, kind of stagnated economically in the post World War II decades, it was less infected with the sort of buildings which make downtown Dallas less than charming to tourists once they get past its impressive looking skyline and actually start walking the downtown streets. What makes Fort Worth unique and gives it so much charm is its older buildings and older neighborhoods. Without them, Fort Worth would be nothing more than a larger version of Arlington. If Dallas ever wants to become a really unique place, the first thing it needs to do is rediscover its many older neighborhoods - which I think, to some degree, has already started to happen.

I am not, by the way, a Dallas basher. I want to see that city prosper and do well just as much as I want Fort Worth to.

BTW - I was in Houston a few weekends ago. I and some friends explored the section of downtown near the old Rice Hotel where lots and lots of neat old buildings from the late 1800s and early 1900s have been restored and converted into lofts and apartments. Fort Worth is going to soon have some real competition for who has the best downtown in Texas - something which will probably be good for everyone.

[vjackson]

I enjoyed reading the positive FW posts, I just have to wonder how old the people were that wrote them. I got the feeling the were lots of 50 somethings. Hey I'm glad people find FW fun, I and lots of other people don't. Granted, FW nightlife sucked for so long, I haven't been out late at night downtown for way over a year maybe even two. I don't remember seeing a long line out of anywhere, except that incredibly cheesy club on Commerce st. and the movie theatre. I'll have to give FW another nighttime visit. It just puzzles me how these post are saying one thing and many people I know who still live in FW still say it's still slow paced and somewhat boring. Which make me question the age of the posters of many of those reviews. Post more if you can, I love reading them.

[DrkLts]

^^^ umm, that long line i saw friday night, and last time i was in downtown before that (a month and a half ago) also had a long line even then... was in front of a building that had these signs..... "The Library" (looked like a sports bar type), The Piano Bar, and something that had Pub&Grill in the sign. Anyone know why it's been super packed latley?

[cjyoung]

I enjoyed reading the positive FW posts, I just have to wonder how old the people were that wrote them. I got the feeling the were lots of 50 somethings. Hey I'm glad people find FW fun, I and lots of other people don't. Granted, FW nightlife sucked for so long, I haven't been out late at night downtown for way over a year maybe even two. I don't remember seeing a long line out of anywhere, except that incredibly cheesy club on Commerce st. and the movie theatre. I'll have to give FW another nighttime visit. It just puzzles me how these post are saying one thing and many people I know who still live in FW still say it's still slow paced and somewhat boring. Which make me question the age of the posters of many of those reviews. Post more if you can, I love reading them.

Where are you from?

[safly]

^^^ umm, that long line i saw friday night, and last time i was in downtown before that (a month and a half ago) also had a long line even then... was in front of a building that had these signs..... "The Library" (looked like a sports bar type), The Piano Bar, and something that had Pub&Grill in the sign. Anyone know why it's been super packed latley?

Well for starters it's a new semester for TCU and other area schools. So these types of $1 beer bars are gonna be quite the wait these days. Library is NOT a place to boast about for any interest in DTFW. As for the Piano Bar place, it will have some good nights and some awful cricket chirpin DEAD NIGHTS by my judgement of a waiting line. I have never been, but the many of people that I do know who live in DTFW have been there MAYBE twice a year. I don't see the draw unless you are planning a party, not like big acts head over there to pounce the ivory. Hyena's is another place where I have seen a line, but it's because of the small size and that they have to take tickets or admissions to enter. The Jubilee Theatre in DTFW is something to boast about (loved their production of "Fences"), but then Dallas has their indie style movie theatre too.

From what I have heard but moved here too late to experience was that The Caravan of Dreams was all the hype. ALL killer and no filler. Something with that much talk AFTER it's departure should be priority #1 for making a DTFW comeback.

[DrkLts]

From what I have heard but moved here too late to experience was that The Caravan of Dreams was all the hype. ALL killer and no filler. Something with that much talk AFTER it's departure should be priority #1 for making a DTFW comeback.

I never got to go at all. Just when some acts that actually interested me started playing there, the place was closed and sold soon after.

[vjackson]

Where are you from?

Born in Houston, father worked for the Federal goverment, so we moved around a lot. Lived in Boston, DC, Seattle, Philadelphia, and San Diego, all before I was 18. At 18, my family returned to Houston (Sugarland), and I did a year at University of Houston, before joining the military, where I got to travel a lot overseas.

[vjackson]

"The Jubilee Theatre in DTFW is something to boast about (loved their production of "Fences"), but then Dallas has their indie style movie theatre too. "

The Jubilee is simply amazing and worth the drive over from Dallas. FW should promote it more, not all of those nightmare performances at Casa Manana

[DrkLts]

A great review of FW in an article from.....

National Geographic Traveler

It starts off saying.....
"A trip to Fort Worth used to be a stopover during a visit to Dallas. Now it's the reason to go to North Texas."

[Sam Stone]

I'm sure someone will be able to describe why the Caravan left. I was able to see several great shows there and loved the venue. Always wondered what became of the murals.

Caravan didn't leave, it was owned by someone who had just opened up another larger venue and would rather lease it out to a restaurant than stick with it make the necessary changes to make it a viable club. It might have been on the old forum, but I think I dedicated an entire thread to this subject. As cool as Caravan was, it could have been infinitely cooler had it been owned and operated by someone with the right vision and dedication (read: not distracted by their other properties).

[DrkLts]

Now that the Caravan is now the current location for Reata, has anyone been to eat there??? I haven't heard any comments if the place turned out great.

[rantanamo]

Dallas sucks. Haven't you guys heard.

[AndyN]

Come on, Rant, don't start baiting us. That's all we need is another interforum flame war. I think someone said Dallas sucked on OKCTalklive. Go see what that's about. :-)

I still haven't found the just right pub in downtown Fort Worth yet. It's ok, though. I still enjoy going to bars and restaurants in Dallas and someoday somebody will open a place I like in FW. Maybe me, though.

[vjackson]

While living in FW I wasn't only unhappy with the nightlife, but the shopping left much to be desired. The shopping was less than mediocre and was another reason it seemed I was always in Dallas. And now in cool DTFW there's now a Jos S. Banks, before that there was an outlet mall. Instead of a cool shopping center on the level of Mockingbird Station, FW ends up with the very surburban Montgomery Plaza. Whole Foods market chose Arlington before FW and Angelika put a new theatre in Plano, not FW. I don't want this post to sound negative, this is just an observation, so don't roast me. I think DTFW is great, but these are some of the reasons I just don't find it COOL or HIP. I've always wondered with FW's size why cooler venues don't make it there. I've always thought retailers seem to have little faith that hip/cool outlets will work in FW. I think part of it is the whole cowboy thing.

[rantanamo]

I was only kidding. Just putting some breaks on some of what was starting to happen. No harm intended.

[DrkLts]

While living in FW I wasn't only unhappy with the nightlife, but the shopping left much to be desired. The shopping was less than mediocre and was another reason it seemed I was always in Dallas. And now in cool DTFW there's now a Jos S. Banks, before that there was an outlet mall. Instead of a cool shopping center on the level of Mockingbird Station, FW ends up with the very surburban Montgomery Plaza. Whole Foods market chose Arlington before FW and Angelika put a new theatre in Plano, not FW. I don't want this post to sound negative, this is just an observation, so don't roast me. I think DTFW is great, but these are some of the reasons I just don't find it COOL or HIP. I've always wondered with FW's size why cooler venues don't make it there. I've always thought retailers seem to have little faith that hip/cool outlets will work in FW. I think part of it is the whole cowboy thing.

I believe that to be 200% true. FW insisting on calling itself COWTOWN and giving off a western image, won't reel in upscale and trendy type retail and clubs. Like fishing, ya gotta use the right bait! People are wondering why Montgomery Plaza can't attract upscale shops. Do you really expect upscale retailers want to locate to a place called COWTOWN??? They want the demographics of a cosmopolitan city, not a western town. With FW doing the cowtown thing, Targets and Walmarts will continue to be the Nordstroms and Saks 5th Ave of Cowtown.

[safly]

vjackson:

in cool DTFW there's now a Jos S. Banks, before that there was an outlet mall. Instead of a cool shopping center on the level of Mockingbird Station, FW ends up with the very surburban Montgomery Plaza. Whole Foods market chose Arlington before FW and Angelika put a new theatre in Plano, not FW.

Yeah, so true. At least Banks is higher end. And don't miss Central Market. Safly ain't the only SA folk to appreciate FW. And the MW plaza comes from a few FW leaders who will roll the city on its back for any development. Hope that's not too graphic.

Although FW is underrated by some retail folks they aren't always the valid weathervanes of cool. I've never been to Whole Foods (although mrs. ghughes loves it) but I do suspect that their continuing to snub us says something. I don't know what, exactly, but it rather cheezes me off. So until they put a store in FW you sure as he11 won't find me at the WF in Arlington!

Club Monaco and Anthropologie won't step foot in this town? Nor a CB2 or Trader Joe's.

I'VE GOTZZ TO HAVE MY IKEA!!!!!!!!

[shipman]

Unfortunately, FW just isn't hip.

It's on it's way up though. But it's a sloooooow process. For me, "hip" is about the cool stuff just outside the mainstream. Funky independent businesses make us "hip", eclectic music venues make us "hip", a range of things to do makes us "hip". We have some stuff going for us, but not as much as in some other similar sized cities, I'd guess.

We have our own vegan restaraunt, Spiral Diner, which is more than a lot of places can say. We have 1919 Hemphill, which is a collectively-owned "radical community space" that has underground shows, movie screenings, discussion groups,- hey the Texas Green Party even meets there. I'd like to see an independent record store that caters to hip/underground music, a progressive bookstore, an indie movie house, and a lot more new funky independent businesses to give us more unique flavor to complement all the new development we'll be seeing in the next 5 years...

I just wish things would move a lot faster. I'm probably going to end up giving up and moving to Austin before it happens...

EDIT: I recently saw an announcement for an indie bookstore opening soon in Denton called Strawberry Fields. I like how they described themselves:

"Hey! Why isn't there a cool indepenent store in Denton where I can buy books that Barnes and Noble wont even keep behind the counter? Or music by my favorite local muscians? Or buy/rent movies that I read are banned in certain nations?"

Well ask those questions no longer! Because Strawberry Fields Books, Music and Video will be opening in our wonderful little town in the not too far future.

What is Strawberry Fields?

Strawberry Fields is a buisness operated by the people for the people specializing in media that your momma doesn't want you to see. We will be dealing in...

fringe, foreign, artsy, fartsy, artsy fartsy, independent, do-dependent, banned, tainted, classic, rebelious, druggy, anarchist, queer, counter-culture, underground, media."

We need stuff like that.

[Y2J]

While living in FW I wasn't only unhappy with the nightlife, but the shopping left much to be desired. The shopping was less than mediocre and was another reason it seemed I was always in Dallas. And now in cool DTFW there's now a Jos S. Banks, before that there was an outlet mall. Instead of a cool shopping center on the level of Mockingbird Station, FW ends up with the very surburban Montgomery Plaza. Whole Foods market chose Arlington before FW and Angelika put a new theatre in Plano, not FW. I don't want this post to sound negative, this is just an observation, so don't roast me. I think DTFW is great, but these are some of the reasons I just don't find it COOL or HIP. I've always wondered with FW's size why cooler venues don't make it there. I've always thought retailers seem to have little faith that hip/cool outlets will work in FW. I think part of it is the whole cowboy thing.

I believe that to be 200% true. FW insisting on calling itself COWTOWN and giving off a western image, won't reel in upscale and trendy type retail and clubs. Like fishing, ya gotta use the right bait! People are wondering why Montgomery Plaza can't attract upscale shops. Do you really expect upscale retailers want to locate to a place called COWTOWN??? They want the demographics of a cosmopolitan city, not a western town. With FW doing the cowtown thing, Targets and Walmarts will continue to be the Nordstroms and Saks 5th Ave of Cowtown.

More 300% true lol

[RD Milhollin]

Unfortunately, FW just isn't hip.

It's on it's way up though. But it's a sloooooow process. For me, "hip" is about the cool stuff just outside the mainstream. Funky independent businesses make us "hip", eclectic music venues make us "hip", a range of things to do makes us "hip". We have some stuff going for us, but not as much as in some other similar sized cities, I'd guess.

We have our own vegan restaraunt, Spiral Diner, which is more than a lot of places can say. We have 1919 Hemphill, which is a collectively-owned "radical community space" that has underground shows, movie screenings, discussion groups,- hey the Texas Green Party even meets there. I'd like to see an independent record store that caters to hip/underground music, a progressive bookstore, an indie movie house, and a lot more new funky independent businesses to give us more unique flavor to complement all the new development we'll be seeing in the next 5 years...

I just wish things would move a lot faster. I'm probably going to end up giving up and moving to Austin before it happens...

Maybe the Fort Worth Longhorn logo could be modified, say... add a tongue piercing

[Y2J]

Thats what I'm talkin about!

[safly]

Perhaps a capital "D" gorged onto one of the horns. Big gnarly grin.

[DrkLts]

Maybe the Fort Worth Longhorn logo could be modified, say... add a tongue piercing

Perhaps a capital "D" gorged onto one of the horns. Big gnarly grin.

Keep the ideas comming! lol

[DrkLts]

From S-T opinions page 2-4-06

What -- no panther?
Star-Telegram

Here's a snippet from American Vertigo: Traveling America in the Footsteps of Tocqueville, by French philosopher and journalist Bernard-Henri Lévy:

"And here I am, in the midst of a most puzzling city, all parks, deserted hotels, highway overpasses with very few cars -- here I am at the center of this empty city where neither the admirable Kimball [sic] Art Museum, by Louis Kahn, nor the Hotel Texas, where John and Jackie Kennedy spent their last night together, seem to attract anyone ..."

The author is referring, of course, to the veritable ghost town of Fort Worth: population 618,600, the 19th-largest city in the United States and one of the fastest-growing big cities in America.

(It's actually the Kimbell Art Museum. And the one-time Hotel Texas is now the Radisson Plaza Hotel.)

Lévy's new book doesn't specify on what date he ventured to Cowtown, nor what hour he visited the Kimbell or Radisson, both of which regularly draw sizable throngs of people.
Most of his remarks about Fort Worth (pp. 144-147) regard a gun show he visited here after state Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn (now a candidate for governor) informed him of America's penchant for backing personal gun ownership.

Cowtown an "empty city"? We find that observation, like Lévy's assessment of Fort Worth, "most puzzling."
At least he didn't claim to see a panther snoozing on Main Street.

[Art Cooler]

Lévy's new book doesn't specify on what date he ventured to Cowtown, nor what hour he visited the Kimbell or Radisson, both of which regularly draw sizable throngs of people.
Most of his remarks about Fort Worth (pp. 144-147) regard a gun show he visited here after state Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn (now a candidate for governor) informed him of America's penchant for backing personal gun ownership.

Cowtown an "empty city"? We find that observation, like Lévy's assessment of Fort Worth, "most puzzling."
At least he didn't claim to see a panther snoozing on Main Street.

Interesting thread. Also nice to see my museum - Amon Carter - (aka my employer) mentioned twice and highly lauded.

Went to see the Gaugin (sp?) exhibit at the Kimbell during a recent rainy weekend. Good crowds. Went a few years back to see Monet. Place was packed to the gills. The Carter recently re-featured photos by Richard Avedon which drew good crowds. Anyone local or visiting should drop in to see the "Patterns of Progress" special exhibition at the Carter...lots of history captured by those bird's eye views.

I lived in Dallas most my my life until last summer. Went to the DMA only once to see art (Georgia O'Keefe) but will grant the Meyerson is a great venue. Nasher's helped a bit with a sculpture garden but Big D still can't compete overall with FW's cultural district.

As for "hipness", that's an endlessly arbitrary discussion. FW appeals to me, for it is slower, less dense, terrain's a bit more interesting (especially W and SW of downtown), drivers a bit more sane, folks not so high strung overall, outlying areas don't look like an endless sea of sanitized suburbia burgeoning with cookie cutter strip malls and McMansions wall to wall, it's got nightlife should I ever get some time to go check it out...may not be everyone's definition of "hip" but to each his/her own. Dallas overall left me behind years ago, but I kept living there until I finally got a chance to escape.

[safly]

Interesting perspective, from a former Dallas-ite. Might have to REALLY take a look at our museums in town.