935 replies to this topic

[Austin55]

Night time view of the south side

[johnfwd]

Good shot!

[Stadtplan]

Those folks better start closing their blinds if Austin55's got good lens out at night!

 

Not to be a Negative Nelly, but several of the units with the drapes open / lights on, look nearly empty or rather minimally decorated.  Actual % occupied = _____?

[roverone]

I think what I'm most curious about is the very different looking interior in the space the floor above the mystery balcony unfinished furdown.  While substantially all of the other apartments are bright and white, that one looks loft-like.  Is that a shared space?

[FortWorthian]

I think what I'm most curious about is the very different looking interior in the space the floor above the mystery balcony unfinished furdown.  While substantially all of the other apartments are bright and white, that one looks loft-like.  Is that a shared space?

 

The mystery "fur"down for the catio!  I think the area you're seeing above that is part of levl 24 Amenities floor.

[Austin55]

Alright well this feels creepy but here's a full crop. That area is the gym/fitness center. Also the unfinished furdown still not finished. Also note the bathtub two floors above, and the office finish out going on inside 777 Main. 

 

[FortWorthian]

I wonder if that's Jackson Walker LP's 22nd Floor renovation at 777 Main (with the ladders shown)?

https://www.tdlr.tex.../TABS2024013720

 

Also, Burns & McDonnel were redoing 24, 25 and 26 after they got the boot from City Hall but I would have thought they wrapped that up by now but it sort of looks like some floors above the one with the ladder has ceiling tiles out of place.

 

https://www.tdlr.tex.../TABS2023022357

 

https://www.tdlr.tex.../TABS2023022368

 

https://www.tdlr.tex.../TABS2023022375

[Austin55]

By my latest count, the building has 222 units available, meaning 80 are taken, which is just over 1/4 of the units. 

 

A month and 10 days later, 11 more units have been leased (91 of 302, w 211 available) meaning the building is 30% leased. 

[FortWorthian]

 

By my latest count, the building has 222 units available, meaning 80 are taken, which is just over 1/4 of the units. 

 

A month and 10 days later, 11 more units have been leased (91 of 302, w 211 available) meaning the building is 30% leased. 

 

 

I asked ChatGPT "what's a normal lease-up rate for a luxury high rise condo building in Texas" and this was the response:

 

In Texas, the lease-up rate for luxury high-rise condo buildings can vary, but on average, developers aim for a rate of about 15-20 units leased per month after the initial launch, with some variation depending on factors like location, market conditions, and unit mix.

 

For luxury condos in prime urban locations (like Austin, Dallas, or Houston), the lease-up pace can often exceed this standard, sometimes leasing up to 25-30 units per month if demand is strong. Lease-up periods for high-rise buildings typically range between 12-18 months, with pre-leasing often beginning 3-6 months before the building's completion to boost early occupancy rates.

 

Economic factors, seasonality, and the appeal of building amenities also play a significant role, so lease-up strategies are frequently tailored to the specific market conditions in each city.

 

Source: The lease-up rate information I provided is based on general industry insights, real estate market analysis practices, and historical trends often observed in high-rise developments in major Texas cities. Typical lease-up rates for luxury condos are influenced by factors like regional market demand, economic conditions, and supply in major metros, which vary but follow common patterns.

 

For a precise rate or real-time market data, consulting recent reports from real estate market research firms like CBRE, JLL, or local Texas developers would offer the most accurate, location-specific insights, as they publish up-to-date analyses on occupancy and lease-up trends for high-end residential developments. If you'd like, I can look up some current market reports for you.

[eastfwther]

So the leasing has been slow???

[Austin55]

 

By my latest count, the building has 222 units available, meaning 80 are taken, which is just over 1/4 of the units. 

 

A month and 10 days later, 11 more units have been leased (91 of 302, w 211 available) meaning the building is 30% leased. 

 

 
My latest count, 8 more leases done so up to 99 total (of 302) so very nearly 1/3rd full. 

[eastfwther]

 

 

By my latest count, the building has 222 units available, meaning 80 are taken, which is just over 1/4 of the units. 

 

A month and 10 days later, 11 more units have been leased (91 of 302, w 211 available) meaning the building is 30% leased. 

 

 
My latest count, 8 more leases done so up to 99 total (of 302) so very nearly 1/3rd full. 

 

I don't know what is considered a slow lease up for a new apartment building. But if you consider the pre-leasing, this building has been leasing for at least 8 months, maybe a year...and it's only at 99 apartments filled?  This seems slow to me. 

[rriojas71]

 

 

 

By my latest count, the building has 222 units available, meaning 80 are taken, which is just over 1/4 of the units. 

 

A month and 10 days later, 11 more units have been leased (91 of 302, w 211 available) meaning the building is 30% leased. 

 

 
My latest count, 8 more leases done so up to 99 total (of 302) so very nearly 1/3rd full. 

 

I don't know what is considered a slow lease up for a new apartment building. But if you consider the pre-leasing, this building has been leasing for at least 8 months, maybe a year...and it's only at 99 apartments filled?  This seems slow to me. 

 

Yes it is slow and even more slow compared to most apartment buildings because it's a luxury tower with high end lease prices.  High rise apartments do take time, especially in an unproven market.

[johnfwd]

What about the Tower?  Are condominiums more (or less) marketable than high-rise apartment buildings? 

[roverone]

What about the Tower?  Are condominiums more (or less) marketable than high-rise apartment buildings? 

 

I wonder if there is any research that would tell us if purchased high-end condominiums are more favorable to a conservative population than high-end rentals?

 

I know they are not directly related things, but I wonder if there are intermediate shared qualities that tend to particular associations.

[FortWorthian]

 

What about the Tower?  Are condominiums more (or less) marketable than high-rise apartment buildings? 

 

I wonder if there is any research that would tell us if purchased high-end condominiums are more favorable to a conservative population than high-end rentals?

 

I know they are not directly related things, but I wonder if there are intermediate shared qualities that tend to particular associations.

 

 

For what it's worth....I ran into a retired couple probably early 60's that own in the Tower.  I recall she was a realtor by trade, so she knew her $/SQFT figures and I got the vibe in talking to them (assuming they are most likely a higher than average net worth couple based on some of the other places they've owned outside of FW) that they likely would not consider a high-end rental like Deco, purely because they'd rather own and could afford to own, as an investment or just out of principle esp north of $3/SQFT/month.  I don't think it was a "look down our nose" sort of attitude it was just their knee-jerk reaction to: if we can afford to buy, why would we rent?  I also think with ownership, there's likely a different tone as far as having some say in the association of owners, sort of that whole HOA thing where not everything flies, esp like if you're considering some of the association of owner say at Montgomery Plaza, they'd appear to have more of a vested interest in the upkeep and operations of the facility vs a 20-something that just wants a safe, clean, nice place to rent for a few years at this stage in life, even looking for a bit of a party scene in and around where they live. 

[eastfwther]

Yes it is slow and even more slow compared to most apartment buildings because it's a luxury tower with high end lease prices.  High rise apartments do take time, especially in an unproven market.

 

 

 

 

It looks as if Fort Worth might not have enough of the critical mass of people earning enough to lease at these prices.  I know of a very expensive new high rise building near downtown Dallas that a coworker moved into after it was open for six months. After six months, it was already at almost 70% occupancy.  I don't know how this bodes for future high rise apartments in Fort Worth.  There definitely isn't a line of developers offering to build them here. I guess we're stuck with these "Texas Donut" apartment buildings for now. 

[rriojas71]

 

Yes it is slow and even more slow compared to most apartment buildings because it's a luxury tower with high end lease prices.  High rise apartments do take time, especially in an unproven market.

 

 

 

 

It looks as if Fort Worth might not have enough of the critical mass of people earning enough to lease at these prices.  I know of a very expensive new high rise building near downtown Dallas that a coworker moved into after it was open for six months. After six months, it was already at almost 70% occupancy.  I don't know how this bodes for future high rise apartments in Fort Worth.  There definitely isn't a line of developers offering to build them here. I guess we're stuck with these "Texas Donut" apartment buildings for now. 

 

That's why we are an unproven market and why buildings like this are used as a template.  When you look at cities like Austin for example, they didn't build the super tall residential buildings initially.  They started much smaller until they got to the point where Austin is now.  However, Austin has several buildings that are less than 50% occupied and they are continuing to build, probably to their detriment at this point.

[eastfwther]

 

 

 When you look at cities like Austin for example, they didn't build the super tall residential buildings initially.  They started much smaller until they got to the point where Austin is now.  However, Austin has several buildings that are less than 50% occupied and they are continuing to build, probably to their detriment at this point.

True, but you've also highlighted another issue....developers take risks in other cities that they simply  NEVER take here. It took 30 years before a developer built a new high rise office building downtown. Let's hope developers are not as timid about high rise residential. 

[rriojas71]

 

 

 

 When you look at cities like Austin for example, they didn't build the super tall residential buildings initially.  They started much smaller until they got to the point where Austin is now.  However, Austin has several buildings that are less than 50% occupied and they are continuing to build, probably to their detriment at this point.

True, but you've also highlighted another issue....developers take risks in other cities that they simply  NEVER take here. It took 30 years before a developer built a new high rise office building downtown. Let's hope developers are not as timid about high rise residential. 

 

Yes, you are correct about the developers not taking risks here.  You are not saying anything we don't already know.  It is what it is.  

[eastfwther]

 

 

 

 

It is what it is.  

Unfortunately, that seems to be the mindset here. 

[rriojas71]

 

 

 

 

 

It is what it is.  

Unfortunately, that seems to be the mindset here. 

 

The majority, if not all, of us here on the Forum would love to see more high-rise development.  However, It doesn't matter what we want it's what developers are willing to risk.  It has more to do with economics not mindset.  So with that out of the way, You are not sharing anything new that you haven't already said 20-30 times in the past.  We get it already.

[FortWorthian]

Dart is promising.

[eastfwther]

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is what it is.  

Unfortunately, that seems to be the mindset here. 

 

The majority, if not all, of us here on the Forum would love to see more high-rise development.  However, It doesn't matter what we want it's what developers are willing to risk.  It has more to do with economics not mindset.  So with that out of the way, You are not sharing anything new that you haven't already said 20-30 times in the past.  We get it already.

 

And I'll keep saying it  till it changes. Most are repetitive on forums. You should see my football forum. 

[Shanedallas76]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is what it is.  

Unfortunately, that seems to be the mindset here. 

 

The majority, if not all, of us here on the Forum would love to see more high-rise development.  However, It doesn't matter what we want it's what developers are willing to risk.  It has more to do with economics not mindset.  So with that out of the way, You are not sharing anything new that you haven't already said 20-30 times in the past.  We get it already.

 

And I'll keep saying it  till it changes. Most are repetitive on forums. You should see my football forum. 

 

 

The high rise is the means to the end of development.

An interesting question is what economic variables are encouraging and discouraging new development from happening, or existing development from relocating to FW. 
 

Most would agree that we need to expand our skilled pool of labor. Having a solid public school system would help as well. The TAMU expansion should bring good talent, which is reasonable to assume will increase the demand for Deco living. 

[Austin55]

 

 

By my latest count, the building has 222 units available, meaning 80 are taken, which is just over 1/4 of the units. 

 

A month and 10 days later, 11 more units have been leased (91 of 302, w 211 available) meaning the building is 30% leased. 

 

 
My latest count, 8 more leases done so up to 99 total (of 302) so very nearly 1/3rd full. 

 

 

As of January 18th, 116 units marked as leased and 186 available up to 38% occupied.

[John T Roberts]

The rate of leasing this building out still seems very slow to me.

[eastfwther]

The rate of leasing this building out still seems very slow to me.

Next month, with preleasing, they've been leasing for a year.  If your building is not even at 50% after a year, that's pretty bad.  Have the leasing prices been lowered? 

[Urbndwlr]

Ive heard someone in the apartment development business say that about 12 months lease up is pretty common and up to 18 months is not uncommon for really large buildings or those that are more niche or high end.  I dont recall the source so take this with a small grain of salt.

[Big Frog II]

I wonder if the new apartments connected to the Crescent Hotel has been a hinderance to leasing more of the apartments at Deco 969.  They both seem to cater to the same upscale market.

[hannerhan]

I wonder if the new apartments connected to the Crescent Hotel has been a hinderance to leasing more of the apartments at Deco 969.  They both seem to cater to the same upscale market.

 

I would very much think so. Museum Place/7th is arguably more walkable than downtown right now, and the Crescent's amenities are unmatched vs. other apartments.

[FortWorthian]

I wonder if the new apartments connected to the Crescent Hotel has been a hinderance to leasing more of the apartments at Deco 969.  They both seem to cater to the same upscale market.

 

I could see the appeal of The Crescent especially if you are not pinching pennies, retired or nearly retired, plus you have a very nice hotel to host out-of-town guests within a stone's throw of your condo as well as some fine dining options.  Are the Crescent apartments supposed to be rent or own? 

 

I bet that 20-something professional crowd looking for a bit more nightlife but probably looking to rent for a year or two and see if they like the vibe either downtown or elsewhere.  If I was in the 20-something crowd, I would gravitate more towards the new developments on Left Bank or Near Southside, you still have some nightlife, dining and the trails (Left Bank) but it's not all the way on the east side of downtown either.  I just wouldn't totally feel safe if I were a young woman taking an early evening jog down E. 4th towards the river trails.  I used to bike through there all the time and I stopped for nothing or no one but still was sort of creepy under the train tracks. 

[hannerhan]

 

I wonder if the new apartments connected to the Crescent Hotel has been a hinderance to leasing more of the apartments at Deco 969.  They both seem to cater to the same upscale market.

 

I could see the appeal of The Crescent especially if you are not pinching pennies, retired or nearly retired, plus you have a very nice hotel to host out-of-town guests within a stone's throw of your condo as well as some fine dining options.  Are the Crescent apartments supposed to be rent or own? 

 

I bet that 20-something professional crowd looking for a bit more nightlife but probably looking to rent for a year or two and see if they like the vibe either downtown or elsewhere.  If I was in the 20-something crowd, I would gravitate more towards the new developments on Left Bank or Near Southside, you still have some nightlife, dining and the trails (Left Bank) but it's not all the way on the east side of downtown either.  I just wouldn't totally feel safe if I were a young woman taking an early evening jog down E. 4th towards the river trails.  I used to bike through there all the time and I stopped for nothing or no one but still was sort of creepy under the train tracks. 

 

 

Crescent is all for rent. To the safety point, it also borders Monticello which is one of the few sidewalked neighborhoods in town that is great for walking year-round (IE lots of trees).

 

Having a 20-something daughter, I can say with confidence that if money was no object she'd live in Museum Place, then Left Bank, then downtown/Southside. Perceived safety being her biggest consideration.

[Urbndwlr]

I wonder if the new apartments connected to the Crescent Hotel has been a hinderance to leasing more of the apartments at Deco 969.  They both seem to cater to the same upscale market.

 
I would very much think so. Museum Place/7th is arguably more walkable than downtown right now, and the Crescent's amenities are unmatched vs. other apartments.

No question the Crescent apartments would put a dent in 969 Deco leasing. They likely target very similar audiences. Nobody had built very high end apartments in FW since Sundance West, so each was intending to pioneer in that market segment... taking the kind of risk that many people complain about not happening on the forum.

For a prospective tenant who is new to the city, wants to lease for a year (maybe longer), isn't price sensitive, and is used to a large, very high end apartment/condo... Crescent feels a little more refined with nicer interior and exterior design - perhaps materials too. 969 Deco feels like a step above typical new 5-7 story apartment buildings but Crescent seems like at least a half step above that. Deco is taller so would have more dramatic views though.

[eastfwther]

 

 

I wonder if the new apartments connected to the Crescent Hotel has been a hinderance to leasing more of the apartments at Deco 969.  They both seem to cater to the same upscale market.

 
I would very much think so. Museum Place/7th is arguably more walkable than downtown right now, and the Crescent's amenities are unmatched vs. other apartments.

No question the Crescent apartments would put a dent in 969 Deco leasing. They likely target very similar audiences. Nobody had built very high end apartments in FW since Sundance West, so each was intending to pioneer in that market segment... taking the kind of risk that many people complain about not happening on the forum.

For a prospective tenant who is new to the city, wants to lease for a year (maybe longer), isn't price sensitive, and is used to a large, very high end apartment/condo... Crescent feels a little more refined with nicer interior and exterior design - perhaps materials too. 969 Deco feels like a step above typical new 5-7 story apartment buildings but Crescent seems like at least a half step above that. Deco is taller so would have more dramatic views though.

 

The Crescent apartments definitely have a high-end, luxury look and feel, Deco just doesn't look like the price point they're asking. I know condos are a risky proposition here, but I really think they might have worked at the Crescent. 

[FortWorthian]

 

 

 

I wonder if the new apartments connected to the Crescent Hotel has been a hinderance to leasing more of the apartments at Deco 969.  They both seem to cater to the same upscale market.

 
I would very much think so. Museum Place/7th is arguably more walkable than downtown right now, and the Crescent's amenities are unmatched vs. other apartments.

No question the Crescent apartments would put a dent in 969 Deco leasing. They likely target very similar audiences. Nobody had built very high end apartments in FW since Sundance West, so each was intending to pioneer in that market segment... taking the kind of risk that many people complain about not happening on the forum.

For a prospective tenant who is new to the city, wants to lease for a year (maybe longer), isn't price sensitive, and is used to a large, very high end apartment/condo... Crescent feels a little more refined with nicer interior and exterior design - perhaps materials too. 969 Deco feels like a step above typical new 5-7 story apartment buildings but Crescent seems like at least a half step above that. Deco is taller so would have more dramatic views though.
 

The Crescent apartments definitely have a high-end, luxury look and feel, Deco just doesn't look like the price point they're asking. I know condos are a risky proposition here, but I really think they might have worked at the Crescent. 
 

 
I hope this doesn't sound too snotty....
 
The thought I had was about layout, quantity vs quality....perhaps taller is not always better when it comes to amenities.  Deco is 302 units where all of those residents are using common spaces and amenities where you could likely expect certain features like pool, bar and gym to get a little busy at times.
 
Crescent Fort Worth is a mixed-use development in the Cultural District of Fort Worth, Texas and includes 169 luxury residential units, a 200-room boutique hotel and 168,000 square feet of Class A office space.
 
I'm not certain, but I'd assume that the residents of Crescent vs the hotel guest don't necessarily mix with certain amenities but perhaps might piggyback on the hotel concierge and a few other luxury features?  Point being, knowing that if you're paying for luxury you would want quality of service over fighting for right to use space and perhaps being able to relax a bit more with fewer residents to compete with.
 
If they're designing places to cater to executives and higher earning business professionals, there really needs to be something that sets the development apart as "exclusive" and some reassurance that a bunch of 20-somethings running around at all hours of the night coming in from the clubs, throwing up in garbage cans, yelling and making noise etc. wont end up spoiling the vibe.