254 replies to this topic

[JBB]

This looks like the closest thing we have to a Ridgmar thread. More bad news, but the owner sounds optimistic about a future re-thinking of the mall:

http://www.star-tele...le53196220.html

[John T Roberts]

This doesn't surprise me.  Earlier in the fall, I needed to go to JCPenney to get something that I normally purchase there, and they didn't have it.  I thought I would check Macy's and the store was completely dead.  Then, on one of the rainy weekends in November, I was going stir crazy because I couldn't walk the dogs or ride bicycles, so I went to Hulen Mall just to walk around.  The Macy's store there was busy.

 

To me, this is an even better chance to revitalize the mall.  However, I would hate for them to tear down the Macy's store, since it is one of the newer buildings in the mall.  If you remember, the old Stripling and Cox store was converted into mall space after it closed, and then it was eventually demolished to build the Foley's (later Macy's) store.  Stripling's building was one of the original department stores constructed with the mall, along with Dillard's and JCPenney.  Neiman Marcus was slated to be an original tenant, but there were startup and construction delays, so it was not ready to open when the mall did, but it followed with it's opening fairly quickly.  The Sears space was left open for about a year, and then they finally committed.  Ridgmar opened in the fall of 1976.

 

With the new residential developments further west, this might be a great opportunity for them to re-position themselves.

 

Also, maybe we should just rename this thread Ridgmar Mall.

[johnfwd]

A similar report in the Fort Worth Business Press (by A. Lee Graham) may provide additional information.

 

http://www.fortworth...088c89cd28.html

 

The above article refers to plans to renovate for a "mixed-use" project.  I recall reading a post here about project design trends away from the traditional mall and towards the mixed-use model.

[John T Roberts]

None of us search this forum very well. There is a Ridgmar Mall thread and the last item of discussion is the new H&M store.

[JBB]

Yeah, I did a search and still didn't find it.

[jefffwd]

Please don't let it go the way of our other metro dead malls...  North Hills Mall, Six Flags Mall, Forum 303, Irving Mall. Prestonwood, Valley View Center...  I am sure I missing some others. 

 

Some area malls are still still successful such as NorthPark, Northeast Mall, Hulen Mall...

 

Teetering on the brink are Galleria Dallas, Collin Creek, Vista Ridge, Parks at Arlington (They could go either way).

 

I am not familiar with Stonebriar, or Willow bend but check this out... 

http://deadmalls.com/stories.html#TX

[John T Roberts]

I merged the old Ridgmar Mall thread with the one about Neiman Marcus leaving.  They are now one.

[jsfslls]

I'd say the Parks Mall is still really popular. WIth all of the growth happening off of I20 near it, as well as the growth going down 360 all the way to Mansfield, the mall stays packed all the time.

From my perspective, I'd easily say it's much more successful than Hulen Mall. There are many things I can find at Parks Mall that I can't find at the Hulen Mall. There were actually a couple of quality things I found at Parks that I couldn't find at Northpark as well.

[JBB]

http://www.star-tele...le53598115.html

S-T editorial on the future of Ridgmar. I remember mentioning in some thread or another over the last year that the growth on the west side and Walsh Ranch make it hard to throw any dirt on the mall's grave just yet.

I agree that the Parks Mall is far from teetering on the brink of anything. The development around it is more spread out than it was 20 years ago, but it was hopping on my last trip there.

[Urbndwlr]

There are a ton of obsolete malls across the country getting re-purposed for other uses. 

 

One example is Highland Mall in Austin - bought I think by Austin Community College for use as... community college.

 

Ridgmar has a lot of land to work with.  If they can assemble some more of the boxes and satellite buildings they'll have even more options in terms of master planning.

[Mr_Brightside526]

Macy's and Neiman's leaving Ridgmar makes the news in this WSJ article.

[Dylan]

Well, that's one way for Fort Worth to make national news.

[Jimmy]

Dillard's is converting their Ridgmar store into a "clearance center" 

 

LINK

[NSFW]

So that will leave John L. Ashe as the only "high end" clothing store option in Ridgmar?

I have found some incredible deals at Dillard's clearance center in Arlington.

[Big Frog II]

Maybe they can turn Ridgmar into a Grapevine Mills type Mall.

[youngalum]

They need to tear the place up be removing some store space to make it more open air and friendly.  

[Jeriat]

Maybe they can turn Ridgmar into a Grapevine Mills type Mall.

 

Honestly, I think a metro area can only have ONE kind of mall like that. 

As for Ridgmar, I'm all in favor of ripping the whole thing up and reusing it as mixed-use apartments, some retail, and maybe even gutting out those big boxes (except the Rave Theater) and using them as some kind of entertainment/convention building. 

[Jimmy]

Maybe they can turn Ridgmar into a Grapevine Mills type Mall.

 

As someone not as familiar with the Grapevine area and who has never been to that mall, what 'type' is it?

[JBB]

Mostly (but not all) outlet stores with several entertainment attractions. Rainforest Café, an AMC theater that's been partially converted to a movie tavern, Sea Life Aquarium, Lego Discovery Center, Lunar Mini Golf, a carousel. The Stars Center closed awhile back and a Round One is going in. It's a Main Event/Dave and Busters type facility (which is ironic because a similar establishment was removed for the aquarium). Much of the interior of the mall is being or has been renovated.

[Jeriat]

 

Maybe they can turn Ridgmar into a Grapevine Mills type Mall.

 

As someone not as familiar with the Grapevine area and who has never been to that mall, what 'type' is it?

 

 

It's basically a "Super-sized" 1 story mall. 

 

 

I was there when it first opened in '97. 

[gdvanc]

I'd say the Parks Mall is still really popular. WIth all of the growth happening off of I20 near it, as well as the growth going down 360 all the way to Mansfield, the mall stays packed all the time.

From my perspective, I'd easily say it's much more successful than Hulen Mall. There are many things I can find at Parks Mall that I can't find at the Hulen Mall. There were actually a couple of quality things I found at Parks that I couldn't find at Northpark as well.

 

I live fairly close to the Parks Mall (don't hate) and it does indeed stay busy. So busy that we drive to Ridgmar to do a lot of our birthday and Christmas shopping because the parking lots and stores are a lot less crowded. That may not be something the mall owners would be excited to hear.

 

I think the Parks and the Highlands may be feeding off of each other a bit.

[bgh01]

I was walking around Ridgmar last weekend, and it is looking worse than ever. The only business that seems to be doing reasonably well is the movie theater.  Macy's is gone, and to the best of my knowledge, Neiman's is still going. While articles from earlier this year claim that Dillard's is becoming a clearance store, it looked as though they were in the middle of a going out of business sale. The bottom floor is closed off, and the top floor was pretty sparse. Signs all over declaring that "All sales are final". Sears had large open spaces all over the store combined with lots of sales. Penneys had large clearance sections, and an entire section was roped off near the escalator with nothing in it and no visible reasons why.

Many of the escalators throughout the mall were turned off and customers were noticing; I overheard a girl saying "Why aren't any of the freaking stairs working?"

I wonder how long it will continue....

[Mr_Brightside526]

What a slow and painful death. They should just bulldoze Ridgmar and turn it into tract houses. It's just as depressing but serves more of a purpose.

[youngalum]

Yeah that mall is dead and the sooner it dies off the better for FW.  It than can then ne replaced with something that actually works.

 

The only reason I go over there is for Dagwoods for the Reuben sandwich and the beer selections.  The place isn't actually in the mall but on the shopping perimeter. 

[GenE]

I have what is probably a stupid question, and also admit to no knowledge of economics.

 

I attended Weatherford Junior College in 1972-1974.  The mall was already there, although I think some building continued to occur.  So the mall is almost if not in fact 50 some odd years old.

 

Would the cost of the property and construction already be paid off, or would destruction of the mall be a loss that could only be recovered by smart rebuilding of a new structure.  

 

And could changing this into a housing development instead of an independent business structure do anything to prevent a huge financial loss?

[Urbndwlr]

Dagwoods IS good, isnt' it?

I'll add to that.  Woody Creek BBQ is in the same building as Dagwoods and I like it too.

 

As for Ridgmar - H&M and the theater are worthwhile but it is just depressing to walk through a mall that is so empty.

 

Now that H&M is open Downtown, I suspect I'll be hitting that store more often than Ridgmar. 

 

Maybe Ridgmar could become a big tree farm (was it part of the old pecan orchards back in the day??   

[John T Roberts]

I like both Dagwood's and Woody Creek. 

 

The mall opened in the fall of 1976.  It was Fort Worth's first enclosed mall.  Unfortunately, I can't remember when they started construction.  As a guess, I would say they started grading the site in early 1975.  It opened with JCPenney, Dillard's, and Stripling's.  Neiman Marcus followed close behind in 1977.  Sears opened after Neiman's, but according to historicaerials.com, it was there in 1979. 

 

Sometimes malls don't last very long.  Prestonwood Town Center in Dallas was built in the 1979 and it closed in 2000.  It was completely torn down by 2004.

[RD Milhollin]

It seems this could be a prime spot for an urban-type TOD. There is still the vacated rail line running north and south across the west of the property and heading NW toward White Settlement Road. Given some finagling that transit ROW could cut through the development south of I-20, and given some planning could serve the future dense development east of Lake Benbrook. This could also be the location of a future transit line going west to the Walsh Ranch area; the developers wrote somewhere their planning considerations included future transit.

 

The site itself is about 1/4 the size of Downtown strictly defined. Replacing the meandering ring road with a street grid and to-the-sidewalk mixed-use buildings including apartments and condos above the retail and offices would complete the picture. There is probably a height restriction due to the aircraft operations at the JRB but there might be less of one closer to the eastern perimeter; since the whole site is in a hole (used to be a lake, right?) several stories in all areas are probably allowed (5-6?) Residents could have access to Boaz Park via a pedestrian/bike bridge across I-30. Probably the biggest barrier to living there would be the aircraft noise. Construction quality sufficient to dampen it would likely be expensive, but location, location, location!

[Austin55]

Austin's Mueller development would be a great precedent for what to do with the site.

[Austin55]

Six Flags mall is going to be torn down. Sounds like it will be replaced by a warehouse park. 

 

http://www.arlington...-six-flags-mall

[John T Roberts]

Here's an article in Fort Worth Business about how the closings of Macy's stores may affect shopping malls.

 

http://www.fortworth...b83d5180aa.html

[Jeriat]

I walked around Ridgmar today... 

That mall is as good as dead. 

[Dismuke]

 

 

The mall opened in the fall of 1976.  It was Fort Worth's first enclosed mall.  Unfortunately, I can't remember when they started construction.  As a guess, I would say they started grading the site in early 1975.  It opened with JCPenney, Dillard's, and Stripling's.  Neiman Marcus followed close behind in 1977.  Sears opened after Neiman's, but according to historicaerials.com, it was there in 1979. 

 

Sometimes malls don't last very long.  Prestonwood Town Center in Dallas was built in the 1979 and it closed in 2000.  It was completely torn down by 2004.

 

 

In the grand scheme of things, 40 years is a pretty lengthy run for a retail center to still be functioning with the same purpose and mix of stores as when it opened. 

 

For example, consider the grocery store anchored shopping centers that were built in virtually every part of town during the 1960s through the mid 1970s.   Most of them were obsolete in terms of their original conception by the end of the 1980s.  The whole premise of such centers was that the tenants would draw from the traffic generated by people doing their weekly grocery shopping. But starting in the late 1970s grocery chains were forced to upgrade into supersized food-drug combo stores in order to remain competitive.  When the grocery stores moved out the shopping centers immediately went into decline - and, eventually, it got to the point where most of the non-grocery retailers in such centers became obsolete with the advent of big box stores.  

 

Many of those vintage shopping centers are still in use - but they mostly cater to businesses that need low rent and are not dependent upon drive-by/walk-by traffic.    The only ones you usually see still with the same sort of tenants as when they opened are in affluent areas of the central city where real estate for new retail development is cost prohibitive.  For example, at Preston and Royal in Dallas there are two 1960s shopping centers still going strong - one with a Tom Thumb the other with a small Central Market.  Indeed, the Central Market has brought things full circle:  the previous tenant was a Borders which had gone into a former Safeway building.  When Central Market converted the space back to a grocery store they discovered underneath the fake ceiling the original arched beams that were one of Safeway's 1960s architectural trademarks and incorporated them into the current store. (worth checking out if you are in the area as they give the store a nice retro sort of feel). But centers like those are the exception - in places such as the suburbs where there was room for new development such shopping centers have long since declined.

 

Ironically, things have come back in full circle in a different sort of way:  those old 1960 and early 1970s grocery stores which were obsolete by the 1980s due to their small size are approximately the same size as the Aldi, Trader Joe's and Sprouts that are now considered to be grocery trend setters. But, nevertheless, most of those surviving neighborhood shopping center are still obsolete because they are in locations that are no longer considered desirable in terms of traffic.

 

Also consider the big box stores that were in existence in our area when Ridgmar opened:  Kmart, Target, Woolco and Gibsons.  Only Target remains in business in the area and, to the best of my knowledge, the last 1970s era Target in our area closed a few years back.  Walmart did not enter the Metroplex until the mid 1980s and I am not aware of any 1980s or even 1990s Walmarts that haven't either been relocated or reconstructed into Supercenters.

 

Chain stores and mass market retail did not really begin to evolve until the decades after the Civil War.   If you take any 40 year period of retail history since then you will see dramatic and radical change - and that is even when you include the 20 year period between 1930 and 1950 when many things were more or less frozen in place due to the Depression and then World War II and the period of economic adjustment immediately following the war.

 

So, all things considered, Ridgmar has had a good run to have lasted as long as it has.  And this is certainly not the first time that the way people do their shopping and the retail industry itself has gone through a period of radical change.

[JBB]

Mall owner purchases the Neiman Marcus space:

 

http://www.star-tele...e105646776.html

[Austin55]

Well this thread has been nothing but bad news for the past several months, with ideas of what to do with the mall tossed around. It looks like the mall has looked into ways to turn itself around, which seem to plan on tearing down the southern half of the mall and replacing it with mixed-use midrise buildings surrounding a central open space. InPlace design has shared this proposal. 

 

 

 

 

A proposed re-positioning of Ridgmar Mall, a traditional enclosed shopping mall. The redevelopment and expansion will include a mixture of retail, restaurants, and residential living in an open air environment with an urban streetscape. A central park serves as the major organizing green space and the primary entertainment venue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Doohickie]

I like the buildings themselves, but the whole thing seems awash in a sea of parking spaces.  To really feel "urban" I think there should be a parking garage or two for that development, and the rest of the land redeveloped, maybe into condos or something.

[Austin55]

It does appear there is a garage on the east side. I would agree with that though. I think this would be an ideal "phase 1" of a total restart of the land the mall sits on. Having the park be a true central part of an entire dense neighborhood could make a great setting.

[Jimmy]

I assume Dillard's, JC Penney and Sears are on board?

 

Also, forgive me if I'm looking at this wrong - does this new plan still involve the movie theater?

[Doohickie]

It looks like the theater stays- it's just to the left of JCP in the second and third images.

[John T Roberts]

First of all, I think that in order to save the mall, this is something that has to be done, and it could be a good "Phase 1" or beginning.   From the site plan, JCPenney, Dillard's, and Sears remain. However, one must consider that Sears is in deep trouble and the Dillard's has already been converted into a clearance center.  I'm really being pessimistic here, but it could very well end up that JCPenney is the only department store anchor left.  The theater is also shown to remain.  Doohickie has correctly identified its location.

[Dylan]

What I see: a few urban buildings in a suburban setting. Meh.

 

That said, this plan would be much better than keeping an abandoned department store.

[Austin55]

I have to wonder if noise is an issue for with this? Being so close to the landing approach of the JRB it seems office and residences might take issue. 

[Doohickie]

There's some pretty high-end residential adjacent to the mall.  So I don't think that will be an issue.

[Mr_Brightside526]

I am very excited for the direction Ridgemar is going. However, I do share the same concern as many of you do with the vast amount of surface parking lots surrounding this development. I can't imagine living in a residence where I look out at all the cars as my view. SO of course I have some thoughts to share .

 

How about if the properties on the corner of Green Oaks Blvd and I-30 were demolished for additional Multi-Family (plus Retail space?) and then the surface lots between the mall and the MF property was converted to a green space. The people living in these units are going to have pets and the city is pushing a healthier lifestyle so it only makes sense to me to bring these amenities into the redesign of a concrete wasteland.

 

There is so much land her the development could even put in a jogging/walking trail for residents.

[Doohickie]

I think there's enough asphalt that demolishing those buildings isn't necessary; just put the multi-use in some of the empty parking lot space.  I do like the idea of more green space.  I know the anchor stores and theater will likely want to retain some surface parking on the north end of the center, but I think there should be some residential development extending eastward from the south end of the truncated mall (the "junior anchors" just south of Sears) out to Green Oaks so it feels more like a contiguous neighborhood (connected somewhat with the residential east of Green Oaks).

 

I'd like to see a jogging trail/multi-use path loop around the whole thing, that would connect with a rails-to-trails conversion of the Bomber Spur.  Some of the old rail infrastructure is still there (old leveled track beds, abutments for bridges, etc.)  A bit off topic, but there used to be a rail bridge over Camp Bowie right by the traffic circle that's been torn down.  The abutments might still be there.  I rode my bike over that bridge several years ago, it was a great piece of infrastructure that could have been used for a bike/pedestrian trail.

[Mr_Brightside526]

I think there's enough asphalt that demolishing those buildings isn't necessary; just put the multi-use in some of the empty parking lot space.  I do like the idea of more green space.  I know the anchor stores and theater will likely want to retain some surface parking on the north end of the center, but I think there should be some residential development extending eastward from the south end of the truncated mall (the "junior anchors" just south of Sears) out to Green Oaks so it feels more like a contiguous neighborhood (connected somewhat with the residential east of Green Oaks).

 

I'd like to see a jogging trail/multi-use path loop around the whole thing, that would connect with a rails-to-trails conversion of the Bomber Spur.

 

I agree that you could put MF any where on the property, I just favor demoing the buildings on that corner because IMO they are an eyesore and it would improve the visual impact as you enter the mall area from that direction.

[Doohickie]

Good point.

 

 

 

(I mean, really.... you don't like ca 1976 retail architecture????  )

[John T Roberts]

That corner area wasn't built until 1979 or 1980.  Historicaerials.com shows it under construction in 1979. 

[Doohickie]

All that tells me is they were following already failing design trends.

[Jeriat]

  I'm really being pessimistic here, but it could very well end up that JCPenney is the only department store anchor left.  

 

Just more opportunities to do something different, as far as I see.