322 replies to this topic

[Now in Denton]

Would be nice if Fort Worth were to anchor its own MSA again someday.

 

I don't see how it would not ? Some things simply don't fit or make sense with government guidelines for a MSA. If this calculation is correct. That would mean Austin will overtake Dallas or be very close to doing so by 2020. That would mean one or two cities stand between Fort Worth and Dallas nationally. To me that is shocking ! 

[rriojas71]

Yeah Im not sure that moving up a couple of spots really means a whole lot... Although it looks pretty on paper it has little relevance to anything because of how many square miles the city limits are and pair that with the paltry density numbers we have this becomes another statistic of unwarranted chest thumping... I assume one of the cities FW will move past is SF however when you compare their vibrancy and dynamism there is really no comparison. SF feels like a much bigger city than FW does. I know first hand because I lived there 15 years. Even Dallas is not on the same level.

I love my hometown and I am not trying to knock it, but density should be the true barometer when determining list of largest cities in my book and unfortunately FW falls flat in that category.

[Now in Denton]

Yeah I’m not sure that moving up a couple of spots really means a whole lot... Although it looks pretty on paper it has little relevance to anything because of how many square miles the city limits are and pair that with the paltry density numbers we have this becomes another statistic of unwarranted chest thumping... I assume one of the cities FW will move past is SF however when you compare their vibrancy and dynamism there is really no comparison. SF “feels” like a much much bigger city than FW does. I know first hand because I lived there 15 years. Even Dallas is not on the same level.

I love my hometown and I am not trying to knock it, but density should be the true barometer when determining list of largest cities in my book and unfortunately FW falls flat in that category.

 

Hate it or love it. To each their own how they want to look at this. But as I said on this topic. The number I watch more is the region. And most especially in state rankings. Fort Worth has already passed many well known cities. To me that is old news. Heck Fort Worth could fall back in national rankings. That means  little to me.

 

But to think "Big D" could permanently settle to 4th or 5th largest in Texas ? I never thought that could ever happen. And Dallas has been growing in population like other Texas cities this whole time, just not at the same pace. Plus congressional districts in the Metroplex will be redrawn to favor more representation to the western side of the metroplex.  And to some degree Austin and San Antonio will also affect Dallas federal clout.

[rriojas71]

NID... I agree with you that it is amazing to think that Big D could slip to 5th. If the current numbers keep up with recent growth projections Fort Worth WILL pass Dallas in the not too distant future.

As far as going up on the largest cities list my only hope is that Fort Worth starts to think and prepare itself for denser inner city growth. There is plenty of other land to grab and incorporate, but I don't think we need further sprawl which in turn puts stress on public and city services.

[johnfwd]

12
Jacksonville[9]
Florida
880,619
821,784
+7.16%
747.4 sq mi
1,935.8 km2
1,178/sq mi
455/km2
30.3369°N 81.6616°W
13
San Francisco[10]
California
870,887
805,235
+8.15%
46.9 sq mi
121.5 km2
18,569/sq mi
7,170/km2
37.7272°N 123.0322°W
14
Columbus
Ohio
860,090
787,033
+9.28%
218.5 sq mi
565.9 km2
3,936/sq mi
1,520/km2
39.9852°N 82.9848°W
15
Indianapolis[11]
Indiana
855,164
820,445
+4.23%
361.5 sq mi
936.3 km2
2,366/sq mi
914/km2
39.7767°N 86.1459°W
16
Fort Worth
Texas
854,113
741,206
+15.23%
342.9 sq mi
888.1 km2
2,491/sq mi
962/km2
32.7815°N

 

My copying and pasting from Wikipedia's Census-based population columns leaves a lot to be desired.  The point here is that, if Fort Worth maintains it's "15.23%" growth rate, compared to the 7-9% range of San Francisco and the other cities just below Austin, Fort Worth will become No. 12. 

[Dylan]

Anchoring our own MSA (metro area) would probably help our image more than moving up a few positions in city population rankings.

[Willy1]

I just saw where fw has a projected 2018 population of 894,000, Austin is about 90k ahead of fw and is sitting at approximately 983,000. Which means Austin will likely hit 1,000,000 in 2018 or 2019. FW should hit 1,000,000 in about 2020-2023. Fw will leapfrog over cities currently sitting in 12th-15th place, to become the 12th largest city.

[txbornviking]

I just saw where fw has a projected 2018 population of 894,000, Austin is about 90k ahead of fw and is sitting at approximately 983,000. Which means Austin will likely hit 1,000,000 in 2018 or 2019. FW should hit 1,000,000 in about 2020-2023. Fw will leapfrog over cities currently sitting in 12th-15th place, to become the 12th largest city.

 

We really, Really, REALLY need to get our public transit act in order. I'd argue we're about 10years to late in making progress, but that doesn't mean it's to late.

 

Now if only we can convince the city council to actually either a) fund the T Master Plan or reject it and outline a preferred direction...

[Austin55]

New census estimates are out. Tarrant County is the 5th fastest growing county in the nation, adding nearly 33k residents over the past 365 days. DFW is the nations fastest growing metro, adding 146k.

 

https://www.census.g...tro-county.html

[johnfwd]

New census estimates are out. Tarrant County is the 5th fastest growing county in the nation, adding nearly 33k residents over the past 365 days. DFW is the nations fastest growing metro, adding 146k.

 

https://www.census.g...tro-county.html

What strikes me is that Tarrant County's total 2017 population estimate (2.05 million) is only about 600,000 fewer people than Dallas County's (2.6 million).  Yet Fort Worth has an estimated 2017 population (854,113), which is about two-thirds less than Dallas's (1.3 million).  This means that half of Dallas County's population consists of the city of Dallas;  only about 43 percent of Tarrant County's population consists of Fort Worth's population.  Stated another way, Tarrant County's population is more evenly distributed among its municipalities.

[JBB]

Also, Dallas is 385 square miles while Fort Worth is 349 square miles.

[Austin55]

Dallas County Density - 2,523 ppsqm
Tarrant County Density - 2,095 ppsqm

[Keller Pirate]

Also, Dallas is 385 square miles while Fort Worth is 349 square miles.

However, Dallas has 45 square miles of water and Fort Worth only has 7 square miles of water, so Fort Worth has a slight edge in land area.

[JBB]

Good point.

Austin - I think you're missing a digit in your Tarrant number.

Tarrant's distributed population isn't necessarily good for Fort Worth. Fort Worth is growing out and that growth isn't sustainable or healthy for the urban center of town.

[Fort Worthology]

Good point.

Austin - I think you're missing a digit in your Tarrant number.

Tarrant's distributed population isn't necessarily good for Fort Worth. Fort Worth is growing out and that growth isn't sustainable or healthy for the urban center of town.

 

Yep.

 

Fort Worth should be reevaluating how it builds all over, not just in a handful of urban villages. The way we're building now is not sustainable, environmentally or economically, in the long term.

[Austin55]

Good point.

Austin - I think you're missing a digit in your Tarrant number.

Tarrant's distributed population isn't necessarily good for Fort Worth. Fort Worth is growing out and that growth isn't sustainable or healthy for the urban center of town.

 

Fixed

 

Agreed

[txbornviking]

 

Good point.

Austin - I think you're missing a digit in your Tarrant number.

Tarrant's distributed population isn't necessarily good for Fort Worth. Fort Worth is growing out and that growth isn't sustainable or healthy for the urban center of town.

 

Yep.

 

Fort Worth should be reevaluating how it builds all over, not just in a handful of urban villages. The way we're building now is not sustainable, environmentally or economically, in the long term.

 

Amen!
Land

Use

Policies

Matter!

[Austin55]

 

 

Good point.

Austin - I think you're missing a digit in your Tarrant number.

Tarrant's distributed population isn't necessarily good for Fort Worth. Fort Worth is growing out and that growth isn't sustainable or healthy for the urban center of town.

 

Yep.

 

Fort Worth should be reevaluating how it builds all over, not just in a handful of urban villages. The way we're building now is not sustainable, environmentally or economically, in the long term.

 

Amen!
Land

Use

Policies

Matter!

 

 

Say it louder for the people in Walsh!

[JBB]

The fact that the land has already been annexed by Fort Worth means the battle is mostly lost.

[johnfwd]

Though I agree that urban management planning is important, I take a contrarian view regarding Fort Worth’s annexation policy.  Some of you may not like to read this, but one of the major reasons for annexation is to keep policy decision-making centralized.  The emergence and growth of suburbs and satellite communities is actually harmful to sound urban management planning on a regional scale.  Regional population growth is inevitable. I believe it is better controlled and managed in the long term by a single centralized governing authority rather than decentralized among numerous municipalities.

[JBB]

If the annexation can't pay for the overextended city services with comparable tax base increases, where's the advantage in centralized control? Everybody loves to point to the pension system, mismanagement, and the police department as the roots of the city's financial problems, but rampant, unsustainable outward growth is just as much to blame. I would rather Fort Worth concentrate on providing better services to a smaller area and make living inside the loop more appealing and affordable than being able to dictate to a neighborhood in Parker County how tall their fences are or what color shingles they can put on their storage shed.

[johnfwd]

I appreciate your concerns about "unsustainable outward growth" but that is a fact of life in our free political, social, and economic market-driven way of life.  People want to live where they choose and a lot of people choose to live out in the countryside rather than in a big city.  Then they demand urban services such as fire prevention and police patrol.  So over the long term civic leaders have three choices:  (1) Leave the area rural and ungoverned and uncontrolled except  by the county and state for their limited resources; (2) leave the area alone and eventually and inevitably it becomes urbanized through the suburban or satellite community process; or (3) the big city annexes the area so that it is governed by a single centralized authority.

 

I prefer No. 3 because it's easier for one governing authority to make decisions to control widespread population growth rather than have that decision-making fragmented over numerous municipalities.  You have only to think about how difficult it is to arrive at a decision regarding a regional transportation scheme when all the communities have to agree on one.

 

If you're worried about lack of services in new areas annexed by Fort Worth that is understandable.  But over time Fort Worth, if governed by wise leaders, will respond by providing those services.  But it takes time.

[elpingüino]

New census estimates are out. Tarrant County is the 5th fastest growing county in the nation, adding nearly 33k residents over the past 365 days. DFW is the nations fastest growing metro, adding 146k.

 

https://www.census.g...tro-county.html

 

Texas Tribune has more details about the growth: https://www.texastri...-texas-suburbs/ The 33K increase in Tarrant County was nearly evenly split between "natural increase within county," aka existing residents having babies, and migration from other areas. Contrast that with Dallas County, whose growth was only 30% migration, and the suburban counties, which were 74% migration.

[JBB]

The problem with Walsh a decade ago or Alliance back in the 90s is that the there was no one moving there and demanding city services.  The city annexed the empty land and subsidized the sprawl.  I have no problem with people living where they choose.  I just don't want the city footing the bill unnecessarily.  We already have a patchwork of city governments bordering the city of Fort Worth.  I'm interested in hearing examples of where it is so terrible that FW annexing the land would have been a better option.  Yes, you're right, the city will find a way to get city services to these areas.  Because the taxes brought in from those areas doesn't cover the cost of spreading city services out that far, they just dilute service and spending across the city and lower quality of life across the board.

[youngalum]

Is it not true that providing city services is a net loser anyway in the city or to far flung areas of the city regardless of tax base for those services?  Making the $ back takes decades even in areas that have high density for those services. 

[JBB]

Yeah, I don't think anyone is making the argument that cities go into the business of providing services for the profit.  Just that spreading them out to the outlying areas dilutes it for everyone.

[mmmdan]

It would be really interesting to see a study like this done for Fort Worth.

https://www.strongto...=value per acre

http://www.urban-thr.../albuquerque-nm

https://www.strongto...ty-has-no-money

 

For all the studies that I have seen, the less dense far flung areas of a city bring in much less tax revenue than the older denser core, and it's the core that ends up subsidizing all of the new development.

 

There's a big difference between infill development which already has all the utilities and services that it needs vs. brand new green field development where everything needs to be built new to support it.

[FW_Drew]

Moved into 13th? Surprised this hasnt been mentioned yet.. http://worldpopulati....com/us-cities/

[johnfwd]

Moved into 13th? Surprised this hasnt been mentioned yet.. http://worldpopulati....com/us-cities/

Interesting.    At its 2.28 percent annual growth rate, Fort Worth's population may surpass Jacksonville's and even Austin's by decade's end.

[elpingüino]

Moved into 13th? Surprised this hasnt been mentioned yet.. http://worldpopulati....com/us-cities/

I was surprised too, then I noticed at the bottom that the list is "2018 Estimate from World Population Review." I'm not familiar with World Population Review but the attention in this forum and in the media usually goes to the estimates from the US Census Bureau.

Here's the page with those official estimates. I bet they'll publish 2018 figures soon.
https://factfinder.c...ity_facts.xhtml

[Now in Denton]

Fort Worth better start landing some high paying white collar jobs quick ! To go with that growing population. 

[John T Roberts]

I thought they posted the yearly estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau after July 1st.

[Cody C]

Guess it's official if the Mayor tweets it. Ha

https://twitter.com/...629229036892161

Here's the Star-Telegram article: 

http://www.star-tele...e211740579.html

[Austin55]

Time to update the thread title

[Volare]

The morbidly obese person brags about packing on another 50 lbs...

 

Hey at least we have less capacity on I-35W than exists currently in Norman Oklahoma! Go Fort Worth!!!

[Austin55]

Here's an interesting note on Dallas from Patrick Kennedy

 

 

 

Based on these 2017 census numbers, Dallas has added 143,259 people since 2010 after having added only 8,000 between 2000 and 2010 census counts. As already mentioned, being landlocked by other munis means that is all infill.

https://twitter.com/...703719343144961

[johnfwd]

FWBP chimed in as well.

 

 

http://www.fortworth...1933c58eb0.html

[Now in Denton]

Still yet another read in "D" Magazine. Good part of it is about Fort Worth. https://twitter.com/...021023062921218

[johnfwd]

I can believe that Fort Worth is one of the fastest growing cities in America, as reported in the FWBP article.  And it's gratifying to see a study that separates Fort Worth from Dallas in its analysis.

 

http://www.fortworth...76d6f13d33.html

[renamerusk]

I take the conclusion of this report to be theatrical.

 

The size and growth of Fort Worth is increasing by the number of inhabitants due to a policy of an out of control annexation of extra territorial  rather then from the density that typically defines a city. What I once called Fort Worth by in large remains placid and is now surrounded by a ring of sprawling commuting households who have the retail, schools, medical and entertainment readily available and therefore very seldom  have a need to venture to traditional Fort Worth.

 

The report simply confirms the a sobering study that defines the City balancing its status between being an urban center and a bedroom community.
 

[johnfwd]

The report is simply a fact-finder about population growth of major cities and does not draw any conclusions. 

[renamerusk]

I can believe that Fort Worth is one of the fastest growing cities in America, as reported in the FWBP article.  And it's gratifying to see a study that separates Fort Worth from Dallas in its analysis.

 

 

The report is simply a fact-finder about population growth of major cities and does not draw any conclusions. 

 

 I don't believe that the statement "Fort Worth is growing fast" is insufficient.

 

 Any a report or an analysis that I have been asked to make came with the understanding that those for whom it presented to shall draw conclusions as there would not be any purpose of issuing a report if it is just to gather dust.

 

What are your thoughts about the findings in the report?

[Austin55]

DFW still #1 in numeric growth.

 

https://www.census.g...rce=govdelivery

[John T Roberts]

According to Channel 8's newscast this morning, Fort Worth has now moved into 13th place.  I don't have any documentation to back this up.

[elpingüino]

We had the third-largest population increase in the nation, the census bureau announced today. https://www.census.g...-estimates.html

Phoenix, Ariz. (25,288)
San Antonio, Texas (20,824)
Fort Worth, Texas (19,552)
Seattle, Wash. (15,354)
Charlotte, N.C. (13,151)

[FWGeek]

According to Channel 8's newscast this morning, Fort Worth has now moved into 13th place.  I don't have any documentation to back this up.

 

Here you go! https://www.star-tel...e230657259.html

[Jeriat]

 

According to Channel 8's newscast this morning, Fort Worth has now moved into 13th place.  I don't have any documentation to back this up.

 

Here you go! https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-worth/article230657259.html 

 

 

Just saw this. Mayor is posting about it... BUT, I'll wait... 

[txbornviking]

 

at what point does our elected leadership decide our "real city" status deserves a real city public transit system?

I don't fault Trinity Metro, I think they're doing about as well as can be expected with their current funding limitations, but our city desperately needs to reevaluate some priorities as we continue to grown.

 

We cannot pour enough concrete or widen enough roads/stroads/highways to accommodate the growth. We must "lean in" to better land-use management programs as well as public transit corridors for job, retail, and housing growth.

[John T Roberts]

I had that same conversation with a cycling friend of mine this morning.

[ramjet]

The continued rapid growth in population of Fort Worth is amazing.  It would be interesting to get a sampling of those who moved to Fort Worth in the past year to see why they moved there.  It would also be interesting to see in what parts of the city they settled.  It is probably in the census data somewhere, but that 19,552 is a net of new arrivals, births, those who left, and deaths.  It would be interesting to see that breakout.