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PBR finals moving to Arlington. Dickies arena not big enough .


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#1 Eastsider817

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 12:30 PM

Looks like Fort Worth has to share PBR with Arlington because Dickies arena isnt large enough. Oh yea and Fort Worth tax payers will still have to pay incentives until 2024. Just another example of how Fort Worth under building is costing the city millions more & exposure.

https://fortworthrep...6c&e=ecedbd6c72

#2 JBB

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 12:43 PM

Crappy about the incentives, but this says nothing about the arena being under sized.  If Dickies had been built to hold 5 times as many people, they still would have lost this event.  The arena was built to the specifications of their main tenant.



#3 youngalum

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 01:05 PM

Crappy about the incentives, but this says nothing about the arena being under sized.  If Dickies had been built to hold 5 times as many people, they still would have lost this event.  The arena was built to the specifications of their main tenant.

Well if one final at at&t stadium had 63k there and dickies holds 17k, it is inferred don't you think?



#4 rriojas71

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 02:20 PM

Just another example of how Fort Worth under building is costing the city millions more & exposure.

https://fortworthrep...6c&e=ecedbd6c72

FW would have had to build another Jerry World to not under build.  Dickies wasn't made for this type of event that occurs one weekend a year.



#5 ramjet

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 05:36 PM

I have absolutely no background info on this, but I'm getting a vibe from the article that there may have been a vision/personality clash among the entities involved. The decisions described don't seem to be collaborative and in good faith.  But, just my opinion.



#6 Eastsider817

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 08:01 PM


Just another example of how Fort Worth under building is costing the city millions more & exposure.

https://fortworthrep...6c&e=ecedbd6c72

FW would have had to build another Jerry World to not under build.  Dickies wasn't made for this type of event that occurs one weekend a year.


Just another example of how Fort Worth under building is costing the city millions more & exposure.

https://fortworthrep...6c&e=ecedbd6c72

FW would have had to build another Jerry World to not under build.  Dickies wasn't made for this type of event that occurs one weekend a year.

Fort Worth didnt anticipate that Dickies Arena would draw as much interest as it has. They were amazed the arena was drawing big events not named the rodeo. The films Yellow Stone & 1883 have done wonders for the city tourism and has brought in a whole new audience to the rodeo. The size of Dickies arena is largely based off of Will Rogers rodeo attendance. Even than they missed the mark. You designed a whole stadium based solely off of your bread and butter attractions rodeo events and still missed the mark. This is an embarrassment. If Dickies was at least the size of the American Airlines center the event would have never left. If you want to play with the big boys, you have to build big boy stadiums. It could mean the difference between hosting a regional March madness game and actually hosting the Final Four. Its ashame the city cant take full advantage of this uptick in interest due shortsightedness.

#7 george84

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 08:15 PM

I agree with you, but all final 4s now are hosted at football stadiums so that wouldnt come here even if the arena was the size of American Airlines. Arlington will host all final 4s that come here.

#8 JBB

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 09:05 PM

If Dickies was at least the size of the American Airlines center the event would have never left.


You either didn't read the article you posted or you don't understand the difference in size between the AAC and AT&T Stadium.

#9 Eastsider817

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Posted 31 May 2023 - 06:58 PM

If Dickies was at least the size of the American Airlines center the event would have never left.

You either didn't read the article you posted or you don't understand the difference in size between the AAC and AT&T Stadium.

I read the article thats why I posted it. I understand that AT&T stadium is bigger than the AAC. Thats common sense. Fort Worth would have had a legitimate argument for PBR not to move the event if Dickies Arena was at least the size of the AAC. As a matter of fact PBR would not have been bold enough to approach Fort Worth about moving the event because Fort Worth would played hard ball with them. Fort Worth response to pontential move would be our NBA size stadium is well equipped to handle the masses, we paid big time incentives for you guys to showcase the event in Fort Worth not Arlington. Moving the event to Arlington is not only a breach of contract but would result in sales tax revenue loss for the city. Sorry but the event must stay in Fort Worth or PBR will face litigations from the city of Fort Worth for breach of contract.

#10 JBB

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Posted 31 May 2023 - 09:00 PM

You're grasping at straws.  They want it in a stadium.  A larger arena in Fort Worth wouldn't have made any difference.



#11 SCHMJDT

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Posted 01 June 2023 - 03:36 PM

Provide what little I can here from the inside

 

Endevour is the new parent company of PBR, they also own WWE and UFC.  my guess is the envision growing the world finals into something more akin to WrestleMania, and no doubt will try and pair with an A-List country show.  I also expect this will look like past events at AT&T where the go half house and focus on 42,500 each night and not 90,000, but history shows they draw around 26-27k.

 

https://www.dallasne...from-las-vegas/

 

this is from before the move to Dickies on attendance numbers at Vegas, a slightly larger building, claiming 72,000 over the seven shows

 

If those numbers stayed true, Dickies would be about 100% full.  Big note, the industry as whole reports attendance as 100% of tickets sold plus a percentage of tickets comped, scan count is never given out. Infer from that on the size of the arena what you will.  For this event we held just over 10k for public tickets as we removed alot of seats for uber VIP sections all around the arena. Normal setup would have been 12,500.

 

But yes, Dickies Arena was designed an built with the FWSSR in mind and fits that perfectly.  The other major note to know when talking about building a larger arena is the public known number of $540million would have been closer to $900 million to build a third deck, or would have greatly lesser features and finish to fit under the cap.  The cost for vertical transportation and life safety systems greatly increases, while the value of the seat greatly reduces with each section, i.e., your most expensive seats to build return the least revenue.

 

As a near 20 year veteran in this industry, and someone who moved across the country to work here, I would say the right choices were made in scale and scope for the building and market.  the only miss was lack of press spaces, but that can get resolved in the current footprint. 

 

but follow the state tourism fund to find your answer . . .



#12 Doohickie

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Posted 01 June 2023 - 03:39 PM

You're grasping at straws.  They want it in a stadium.  A larger arena in Fort Worth wouldn't have made any difference.

But if they were given incentives, how is their moving *not* a breach of contract?  Did Fort Worth word the contract that poorly?


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#13 SCHMJDT

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Posted 02 June 2023 - 07:38 AM

 

You're grasping at straws.  They want it in a stadium.  A larger arena in Fort Worth wouldn't have made any difference.

But if they were given incentives, how is their moving *not* a breach of contract?  Did Fort Worth word the contract that poorly?

 

Can't answer what the contract says, but what I would suggest . . . It would not be uncommon in the bid process for a city to aggressively bid on a larger national event with the promise or even guarantee of Tourism Offset to make it more attractive to a group.  If that fails to actualize, I'm not sure how the groups would handle it. My understanding of the Texas Tourism Trust is it can be large or small and is based on the prospective out of town money brought it by the event, and each city works on it differently, so there's also a chance with things like the Colonial, Indy Car and Nascar, that Arlington has a different budget, or at least more experience given their larger bowl game, WrestleMania, CFP and now MLB All-Star Game?  But again with my role, not involved in contracts or details of the decision, was just answering the ones about building size and makeup that I could



#14 JBB

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Posted 02 June 2023 - 10:22 AM

 

You're grasping at straws.  They want it in a stadium.  A larger arena in Fort Worth wouldn't have made any difference.

But if they were given incentives, how is their moving *not* a breach of contract?  Did Fort Worth word the contract that poorly?

 

 

I was referring to saying that the event would have never left if Dickies had the capacity of the AAC.  I don't know anything one way or the other about the contract.  I will say that if they went so far as to announce, they've had some lawyers look everything over to the point that they feel comfortable.



#15 Volare

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Posted 03 June 2023 - 07:52 PM

 

You're grasping at straws.  They want it in a stadium.  A larger arena in Fort Worth wouldn't have made any difference.

But if they were given incentives, how is their moving *not* a breach of contract?  Did Fort Worth word the contract that poorly?

 

Probably the same folks who negotiated Pier 1 place for the City Hall and turned that into a debacle.



#16 Crestline

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Posted 10 June 2023 - 07:54 AM

From the article:

 

The city knew that PBR would eventually move the finals to Arlington, but officials didn’t expect it would happen as early as 2024, Visit Fort Worth CEO Bob Jameson said.

 

“The anticipation was that there would be three years in Fort Worth, depending upon how the event matured,” Jameson said. “Our interest is making sure that they’re holding their events in the right places to help them be successful and create the foundation for a long-term presence in North Texas.”

 

So everyone knew that PBR wouldn't stick around, and now they're leaving after two years instead of three? Doesn't seem like a big deal to me.






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