93 replies to this topic

[johnfwd]

Does anyone know when, or if, the planned Midtown development near I-30 and Forest Park Boulevard is going to start construction?

[elpingüino]

The project's home page says construction will begin in the middle of this year.

[John S.]

Seems like another West-7th/Montgomery/Trinity Uptown knock-off type project. It is a bit surprising to see this since the former projects have been struggling with the down local economy; however, the location is certainly excellent being mid-way between downtown and the Medical District. Most likely, the Midtown developers are hoping by the time their project nears completion an improved local real estate market will be present. They may be right as a new 122 unit Senior residential "Village" is planned for this year in the Trinity Uptown area by developer Tom Struhs.(see Trinity Bluffs Senior Village thread under "Residential" projects) The important question is, how much additional demand will there be at the time of completion given the recently soft demand in the aforementioned projects? If the Fort Worth urban R.E. market eventually returns to pre-recession levels, then this Midtown project will probably be a slam-dunk success.

[JBB]

Don't hold your breath on this one. It's been in "coming soon" or "construction starts soon" status for the better part of the last 10 years.

[David Love]

Don't hold your breath on this one. It's been in "coming soon" or "construction starts soon" status for the better part of the last 10 years.

I agree!

[cberen1]

Has it really been 10 years? Seems like only five.

Let's pretend it's going to actually happen. Do you think this would spur growth in the interior of the land bounded by Forest Park, Rosedale, 8th and the railroad tracks/SW2NE? What about the North/South rail spur that runs right next to the development site? Does that stay a No Man's Land or can you develop right next to it?

[RD Milhollin]

Let's pretend it's going to actually happen. Do you think this would spur growth in the interior of the land bounded by Forest Park, Rosedale, 8th and the railroad tracks/SW2NE? What about the North/South rail spur that runs right next to the development site? Does that stay a No Man's Land or can you develop right next to it?

That development is most of the developed land in that bounded area you described. The railroad "spur" that runs nort-south is the FWRR line that connects Hodge Station to Cresson, and is the proposed route of the SW2NE commuter line. The Medical District station is going to need to be built right near the area you are describing, so that will eat up some property either near the Medical Center Hospital or south of Rosedale near All Saints Hospital. Once this development is completed it doesn't appear that there will be much vacant land left. There appear to be two lots facing the Jerome Street extension that runs through the Midtown project that back up to the FWRR tracks, and a couple of lots across the tracks, that if not used for the station could be office, clinic or warehouse; don't think people would be too hip on living right next to the tracks (although they are up in the SO7 area!? ... go figure) so apartments might not be a good idea.

[cberen1]

I had a little time to kill this morning so I drove around in that area. The RR takes up a lot more space than I had thought from looking at satelite images. You're right. Most of the space is taken. Unfortunately I think it's an area that will always feel too open and spaced out. I don't think it will ever be pedestrian friendly.

On a side note, I went up to the Pennsylvania and 8th street area and drove around there too. I wonder how much money it would take to buy the apartments right there and West and tear them down? Rent can't be much. It could be a neat little development site.

[RD Milhollin]

It appears things have moved a little past the rumor stage.

http://www.star-tele...adlines-default

[johnfwd]

It appears things have moved a little past the rumor stage.

http://www.star-tele...adlines-default

Great! Good to see commercial retail and hotel development in FW while we recover from the Great Recession. Now, I'm no urban density expert or that knowledgable of the hotel industry, but (at the risk of sounding naive and child-like): Why are there only five-or-six story hotels outside downtown FW while the environs around downtown Dallas have a scattering of 20-to-30 story hotels? Is it just that consumer demand for hotel space is far greater in Big D?

[ron4Life]

It appears things have moved a little past the rumor stage. http://www.star-tele...adlines-default

This is good news indeed..

[Thurman52]

The cut they put in from Forest Park to the development is a steep grade. Very unfriendly from that angle, I guess Rosedale will be at grade. I guess I never realized the elevation change there.

[heinzrx]

We live near this development and have been watching the ongoing construction which is going gangbusters at the moment.

Our only concern is that the site plan as shown on the ClearFork properties website doesn't seem to match what is actually being built. If you look at the pdf link on this website:

ClearFork MidTown

It shows a four-story hotel bordering Forest Park on the west side of the property but it doesn't look like a four-story structure is being built. There are some other differences too but that one is the most glaring.

I emailed ClearFork Properties to ask about an updated site plan but haven't heard back yet.

Does anybody have any late info?

It's kind of frustrating, the lack of accurate information provided by the developers.

Heinz

[JBB]

The hotel that is going up now is 4 stories. They've framed out the bottom floor and, if you'll look next time you're in the area, there is a 4 story cinder block elevator shaft sticking up out of the middle of the structure.

[RD Milhollin]

The website cited above for this development calls the project a "Mixed Use Development". It looks to me that the tenants the buildings are designed for are involved in retail and hospitality industries. Grammatically, "mixed use" describes this development, since more than two types of uses are combined on one parcel of land. But in development language, doesn't "mixed use" carry a more stringent and specific meaning, i.e. that a building (as opposed to a development) is designed to be suitable for commercial and residential use? And doesn't a "mixed use" neighborhood imply that some of the buildings in that area are suited to that sort of dual use? I know there is a literature that uses this sort of distinction in differentiating between various development or redevelopment schemes, but is this a recognized part of planning vocabulary?

I realize that how something is described depends to a large part on who the description is written for. If the intended audience for the website describing the Midtown Development is the general public, then the "mixed use" description can be understood, with the reader needing to read a little deeper to discover what the different uses are to be. I would guess that the actual intended audience is the real estate professional, whose understanding of terms like "mixed use" might be different than general usage.

If this reasoning is correct thus far, why would the developers choose to describe the Midtown development as a mixed use project? Does it add the perception of a sort of "green" sheen to their project that really isn't there (at least as regards sustainable, livable, compact, _____ (fill in the adjective)? For all I know the buildings themselves may be "green" as regards energy efficiency, rainwater reuse, LEED compliance, etc. but I didn't notice that is their online literature. It looks to me that this s a fairly generic office park type development, sort of reminiscent of the late 70's and early 80's, but superficially updated with the exterior treatment currently in vogue. Does the term serve to set this development apart from others basically like it, but that don't have the "mixed use" term attached?

My primary question to those who follow these sorts of things: Is this a misuse of the term "Mixed Use"?

[John T Roberts]

JBB has explained it well. There is a four story elevator shaft that has already been constructed with the wood framed hotel rising around it. The entry is being framed in steel. From what I can see by driving by, it appears the building and the site plan are pretty close.

Pup, the real answer to your question is no. However, I think different people could view this differently. As architects, I think we think of "mixed use" pertaining to a building. Meaning a mixed use project would have a building with more than one use inside. Legally, our city's Mixed-Use zoning allows either a building to be mixed use, or the site to be mixed use. Therefore, what is being constructed is a mixed-use development, even though each building houses a single use.

[cberen1]

I'm glad someone brought this topic up. I've driven by a couple of times and thought we needed to revisit the discussion. I'm so thrilled to see new construction right there.

I'm curious what the impact will be on Mistletoe Heights. With this project, there is new development or redevelopment going on in basically every direction. Will this "sqeeze" Mistletoe past the tipping point in redevelopment?

I'm waiting to see a few tear-downs (heretical, I know) in Mistletoe Heights. It's just that some of the properties farthest North and East are worth of a little bull-dozing. They stand in such stark contrast to the properties on the West side of Mistletoe Heights. A few tear downs tells me the land is worth more than the house. Good sign.

[heinzrx]

The hotel that is going up now is 4 stories. They've framed out the bottom floor and, if you'll look next time you're in the area, there is a 4 story cinder block elevator shaft sticking up out of the middle of the structure.

My mistake. I know next to nothing about construction. If it was going to be four stories I expected to see a four-story frame at the start. It still looks like there is only a single floor being worked on but I guess at some point they'll progress to the next level. My initial thoughts about the cinder block "tower" was that it was going to be some sort of decorative tower. I'll just have to be patient and see what develops.

All we know at this point is that there will be two chain hotels, a chain bank, parking garage and medical office space. I'm trying to figure out what other type of business might thrive at that location and maybe add something unique to the area but it really seems to be turning into another generic mixed-use commercial development. I'm also disappointed they bulldozed all of the existing vegetation to get started. Let's hope they add some greenery back in.

And speaking of banks, it seems so odd that, with the crappy economic climate there seems to be a proliferation of tiny banks on every other street corner. Sad to see this development include yet another bank branch office.

Keeping my fingers crossed that it turns out beter than I fear.

Heinz

[John T Roberts]

The parking garage is also going up in the center of the development. It is about 1/2 level above grade right now.

[Thurman52]

With the elevation along Forest Park, the hotel there looks real large. Changing the look of that intersection already. The parking garage seems to be making good progress, what about the rest of the development?

[ron4Life]

The earth moving activity along I30, is that part of this Midtown development?

[JBB]

No, that's for the Chisolm Trail Pkwy.

[renamerusk]

Our only concern is that the site plan as shown on the ClearFork properties website doesn't seem to match what is actually being built.......I emailed ClearFork Properties to ask about an updated site plan but haven't heard back yet.....Does anybody have any late info?

Heinz

The Raymond Group - Midtown

[John T Roberts]

Torchy's Taco's from Austin is going into the development. I just discovered this today.

[Thurman52]

The 2nd hotel is framed up, they sort of sneaked that by me, it's hidden behind the Hilton on the hill. On unrelated note, Midwest Wrecking has their trucks across Forest Park by the tracks, guess that buiding is a target for redevelopment?

[JBB]

I noticed that last week. Both buildings are vacant, but the one closest to the corner doesn't really look like anything is being done to it in the way of preparing it for demolition. They're both still owned by the same company that picked them up from Blackmon Mooring when they moved.

[John T Roberts]

They have been putting the signs up on Torchy's Tacos over the last few days and the Homewood Suites is moving right along.

[JBB]

Midwest Wrecking is making pretty quick time on knocking down both buildings at the old Blackmon Mooring property across Forest Park from Midtown. There's now a sign up for a construction contractor. Anyone heard anything?

[John T Roberts]

Torchy's Tacos, the development's first restaurant, is scheduled to open December 20th.

[John T Roberts]

Here's a review from the Fort Worth Weekly on Torchy's.

http://www.fwweekly....eat-at-torchys/

I have already eaten there twice and I enjoyed both times. I thought the tacos were very good.

[Thurman52]

Ugly banner sign up on the corner they demolished the old Blackmon Mooring buildings with bank logo on it. Bets on new bank on the corner.

[mmiller2002]

Here's a review from the Fort Worth Weekly on Torchy's.

http://www.fwweekly....eat-at-torchys/

I have already eaten there twice and I enjoyed both times. I thought the tacos were very good.

 

good enough food, like one tic up from fuzzy's in price.  what's with the parking layout, work in progress?

[John T Roberts]

Are you talking about the parking on the dirt lot between Torchy's and the Southwest Bank?  That site is planned for an office building.  Parking for the entire development takes place on the development's road system or in the central parking garage, already constructed.  Anything else is just temporary.

[panthercity]

Any pictures coming soon? I've been wondering what it looks like and I don't get to come home for another 8 months.

[John T Roberts]

I think one reason no one has taken pictures is that the individual buildings are really not architecturally significant.  The branch bank, the two hotels, and Torchy's are all very generic and suburban looking.  The parking garage in the center is probably the nicest looking building, but it still looks like a parking garage.

[John T Roberts]

Panthercity, since you asked for photographs, I went out this afternoon and took some. 

 

Here is the parking garage in the center of the development. 

 

Southwest Bank, located on the southeast part of the site.

 

Torchy's Tacos:

 

Hilton Garden Inn:

 

Homewood Suites, under construction with the office building starting in the foreground.

[Jeriat]

They do look pretty suburban... but that area really needs to develop, so I don't mind too much. 

[panthercity]

Wow didn't expect it to be that soon. Thanks a lot John I really appreciate it. I agree it does look very suburban kinda of a let down but it is nice to have something going in there. 

[Austin55]

What is that fairly large structure being built nearby there? I don't know my way around Southside very well

[John T Roberts]

Panthercity, I don't live very far.  I was planning to take some construction photos downtown today, so I just made a slight side trip to catch those.

 

Austin55, I need more specifics on where the structure is located.  There are several buildings under construction in the Medical District right now.

[dfwerdoc]

I think one reason no one has taken pictures is that the individual buildings are really not architecturally significant.  The branch bank, the two hotels, and Torchy's are all very generic and suburban looking.  The parking garage in the center is probably the nicest looking building, but it still looks like a parking garage.

thanks for posting the pics john ... i agree the buildings are cookie cutter boring structures. i can't believe people spend millions and just with a little bit of for-thought they can do something more meaningful with the same amount of money. i think all these architects need to take a trip to europe where land is more precious 

[mmiller2002]

Are you talking about the parking on the dirt lot between Torchy's and the Southwest Bank?  That site is planned for an office building.  Parking for the entire development takes place on the development's road system or in the central parking garage, already constructed.  Anything else is just temporary.

 

Not the dirt.  I'm referring to when you pull in, in front of torchy's, the few spots of parking are angled in the wrong direction.  Then, there's little batches of parking further away, and then the garage.  It just seemed odd.  Like I said, maybe a work in progress that will make better sense when finished.

[John T Roberts]

The spaces in front of Torchy's are angled in the right direction if you are exiting the development.  The other small pockets of parking were intended as streetside parking for the businesses.  The garage carries the bulk of the parking for the development.  However, there is a fairly large parking lot to the northeast of the Homewood Suites.  For more specific details on the site, go here: http://www.clearfork...plan1-25-11.JPG

[Jeriat]

thanks for posting the pics john ... i agree the buildings are cookie cutter boring structures. i can't believe people spend millions and just with a little bit of for-thought they can do something more meaningful with the same amount of money. i think all these architects need to take a trip to europe where land is more precious 

 

They don't even have to go to Europe. They could just take a trip up to Manhattan for examples.... 

[dangr.dave]

I stopped in at Torchy's for lunch one day.  I placed my order and left about 45 minutes later because I couldn't wait any longer on my food.  I was eager to try the food...maybe I'll try again when (if?) the hype dies down.

[urbancowboy]

Well I am tired of saying this but......it could be worse.  I wish there was some retail facing Rosedale and Forest Park.  I will admit that this site seemed like a difficult one to plan for.

[John T Roberts]

Dave, try going at 3 PM.  They are not very crowded at that time.  I realize that you work, but if you have a day off, maybe you could get over there.  I'm sure that around the same time on a Saturday, they might not be too busy.

[Volare]

Torchy's has some very tasty tacos. But the parking situation is terrible.

[JBB]

There's a garage with a few hundred spaces right there.  The parking situation isn't all that bad if you're willing and able to walk more than 100 feet to the door.

[John T Roberts]

I guess that's what I don't understand.  It's obvious to me that there is limited street parking and you are supposed to park in the garage that was placed in the center of the entire development.