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Texas & Pacific Warehouse

Downtown Historic Buildings Historic Preservation Lancaster Corridor

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#1 David Love

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 10:08 AM

Posted on Wed, Apr. 20, 2005

FOR THE RECORD
Star-Telegram

Fort Worth City Council on Tuesday:

• Agreed to submit an application to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development to use about $870,000 in grants and a $5.6 million loan guarantee for the proposed renovation of the Texas and Pacific Warehouse renovation project. The project calls for 300 apartments and 52,000 square feet for businesses. The funds were originally earmarked to help renovate the Montgomery Ward building west of downtown, but federal rules prevented the grant from being used on that project.

So that's the warehouse not the depot? That's big news then, a whole new project. My favorite derelict building, too.

300 units/5 floors = 60 units per floor, though probably more on lower floors and fewer on higher floors. 50k sf per floor / 60 units = 830 sf per unit. . . sounds about right--you'd have some at 500 sf and some about 1300. Federal money means that probably a good chunk of them will have income restrictions and the rest will be market rate.

I wonder if they've bought the lot behind them owned by Gandy and/or solved the significnat parking problem that building will have.

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#2 safly

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 10:46 AM

An SC connection runs some of that show there. They've been looking forward to ti sprogression in years. I too like it's potential in that area. I'll see if there is a website giving any detail on the project.
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#3 Sam Stone

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 12:55 PM

Whoa, gotta correct myself there: the warehouse is 8 stories, so that would make 7 stories of residential. 300/7 = 42 units per floor which averages to 1190 sf per unit if you assume 50k sf per floor. These will be much bigger units and some very expensive rentals.

John, is 50k sf for the upper floors right? 60k sf minus corridors, stairwells, elevator shafts, HVAC?

Also, what will the noise/view be like for south facing units?

#4 WTx

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 01:11 PM

I know we have discussed this in the past but where will parking be for the residents??? By the way, this is awsome news!!!

#5 David Love

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 02:51 PM

Whoa, gotta correct myself there:  the warehouse is 8 stories, so that would make 7 stories of residential.  300/7 = 42 units per floor which averages to 1190 sf per unit if you assume 50k sf per floor.  These will be much bigger units and some very expensive rentals. 

John, is 50k sf for the upper floors right?  60k sf minus corridors, stairwells, elevator shafts, HVAC? 

Also, what will the noise/view be like for south facing units?

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The building is 611' by 100' which makes each floor, per survey, 61,100 square feet. Subtract exterior walls, no idea how thick those are, but since they’re apartments, the interior walls would be paper thin, right. <_<

Since it was a warehouse, would seem that everything could be designed from scratch, which could make for a really unique place.

#6 AdamB

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 03:25 PM

This is huge!!! Once these two projects are completed, Lancaster will be transformed especially once the Omni goes in as well. New businesses are going to pop up all over the place as well as new retail. This could spur a major southern development of the skyline. I was always hoping that they would put some sort of residential/office use to that building.

#7 John T Roberts

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 04:16 PM

Yes, 61,100 is the overall square footage for a floor. The walls are at least 1'-0" thick. Sam, your 50k is probably a good number for the usable square footage per floor. From what I have seen of the design sketches, the south facing units will overlook either a parking structure or a shopping building. A person living on that side would see the freeway and have some noise, but I didn't find it objectionable when I have walked through the building (twice) with the owner's permission.

#8 gdvanc

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 11:10 PM

That's good news if it works - and I hope it does. My fingers were crossed for some sort of mixed use; that building is so visible from I-30 etc. that having it active all day and lit up a bit at night will be a good thing. Fort Worth sometimes looks dead in the evenings even from the West Freeway.

I had read a summary of the application made (or being made or under consideration to be made or whatever) to HUD in which the city was asking (or thinking of asking) for $1,000,000 of the BEDI funds previously allocated for the Montgomery Plaza project plus $6+ million in loan guarantees - I assume this is the same writ a wee bit smaller. What I'm wondering, however, is whether the property qualifies for BEDI funds. Anybody? I've seen no obvious reason. If that allocation is at-risk, is the project still feasible? I hope so - just in case.

If anyone else has read that application, what did you think? To me they seemed to go a bit over-the-top in trying to drive home that this project was going to end poverty in that part of town. Maybe that's what you have to do to get cash from the HUD piggy bank. Interesting reading, though.

#9 Bretley42

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 08:17 AM

This is great news to me. I've always wanted to see something great happen to this building.

I believe it'll pull two of the more interesting growing areas of Fort Worth together. With the renewed downtown taking off, and Fort Worth South begenning its renewal this could be a great place to be with quick access to both.



plus, it'll be a good project to watch and follow here.


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#10 TexasPacific52

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 08:31 PM

Does the City own the building? I thought it was privately owned. Why is the city kicking in the money and working with HUD on the development?

Does anyone know if the building is to be privately owned and leased out? Did anyone see "Fort Worth Housing Authority" on the HUD paperwork? You do know that the "city" owns another high rise in downtown FTW and it's used by the Fort Worth Housing Authority for low income housing specializing in medical or disabled persons / families. I sure hope this is not the case in this instance.
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#11 David Love

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 09:26 PM

Didn’t the Kirby Building in Dallas have similar beginnings, they’re all rentals but a percentage are set aside for limited income.

What are the qualifications for affordable housing?
Dallas’ Intown Housing program allows for individuals earning 80% of the median income to qualify for special rental rates. The median income is $45,063, making the income level of $36,050 eligible for special rates.



#12 Sam Stone

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 09:27 PM

The building is privately owned. It's been the same owner for quite some time now, too.

Housing policy is not my thing, but the way I understand it is that HUD doesn't usually give money directly to owners/developers. It goes to public entities like the housing authority, and then to the project. There are "the projects" which don't get built anymore but still exist all over the place--I think the building you are referring to downtown is one of these. There are publicly owned complexes--built privately and later bought by housing authorities, then a portion of the residents are low income. And then there are old buildngs previously used for other purposes that have been rehabbed using federal funds--a portion of the units are reserved for people who meet low income requirements and are leased below market rate. The T&P would fall into this last category. I have no idea, though, what percentage of units must be set aside for low income. Any housing wonks out there?

To get back to your question of why HUD is involved, the department's job is to house people. The owner would like to see a return on her investment. And the city would like to get a derelict property back into good (read property tax generating) condition and it's a catalyst for redevelopment of Lancaster. Or to put it another way, HUD has the money.

#13 safly

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 10:34 PM

HUD def. has THE MONEY. Former San Antonio mayor, Henry Cisneros, spearheads the HUD efforts in Texas and at one point the US. He hosted a town hall meeting of sorts in FW some 3 years ago at the 1st Methodist DTFW. He is very passionate about public housing and reviving dilapidated housing, neighborhoods, buildings, and corridors. It makes sense to issue such a unique housing factor for the TNP Warehouse, and I believe it will not affect any land values or the likes of in the DTFW area. Trust me, the owners of the building will make out JUST FINE if this passes. In turn it should free up cash for some commercial development/ subsidy. BINGO.


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#14 redhead

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 11:38 AM

Back to the earlier question about parking: structured parking is currently being constructed at the rear of the building. It actually will form a low barrier between the building and I-30, maybe block some of the traffic noise.

#15 JBB

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 12:33 PM

That parking structure is for the Terminal. This topic is about the warehouse.

#16 Urbndwlr

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 10:53 PM

Are we sure this is the Warehouse? It appears bigger than that. I thought that thing was just too large to convert to residential.

Wouldn't it make sense to do a mix of uses (i.e. eastern 50% hotel/office, western 50% residential)? It would easily accomodate multiple entrances.

Are the floors deep enough and the ceilings high enough for office use? How high are those ceilings?

And what implications does the buildings age and its historic status have regarding the building's redevelopment and the construction?

#17 gdvanc

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 11:17 PM

Are we sure this is the Warehouse?

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Yes, it's the warehouse.

#18 vjackson

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 08:10 PM

"Wouldn't it make sense to do a mix of uses (i.e. eastern 50% hotel/office, western 50% residential)? It would easily accomodate multiple entrances."

I've always imagined the building having several uses also. It's definitely large enough. It would really be nice if they offered some condos along with the apts.

#19 John T Roberts

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 10:05 PM

The discussion of this thread is the T & P Warehouse. That is the incredibly large and long vacant warehouse building sitting to the west of Jennings Avenue and the Post Office. The T & P Warehouse is 8 stories tall. Between it and the railroad tracks is a vacant plot of land. The money earmarked for Montgomery Ward project is being transferred to the T & P Warehouse. Urb, it would make more sense to redevelop the warehouse as a mixed use building since its floor plate is so large and long. There is about 61,100 gross square feet per floor. The floor structure is deep enough to support office space. Remember it was originally a warehouse; therefore, it was designed to handle heavier loads than office requirements and far more loads than residential occupancy will require. Back when I was given access to the building for a redevelopment study, we measured the clear height between the lowest beams and the floor slab and determined that it could work for loft office space, but it would be a tight fit and would require the corridor and service areas to have a dropped ceiling. The building is designated the highest historic status with the city. It is also marked as a Recorded Texas Historic Landmark and is listed on the National Register of Historic Places. Therefore, any alterations to the facade will have to be approved by all entities. Major alterations to the facade will probably not be allowed. The one issue that will come up will be the windows. Although a preservation purist, I don't think that enlarging them to match the office portion is a major alteration to the facade. The building has to be made profitable and if lowering the windows makes the structure more economically feasible and it is the only alternative, then I think it would be appropriate.

The T & P Terminal is the building where originally there were tracks immediately to the rear. Now that area is just paved with concrete. This is where the parking garage is now currently being constructed and the canopy to the east of the building was demolished last fall. A new companion apartment building will be constructed to the east of the terminal. The terminal building sits to the east of the Post Office and is the smaller plan, but taller in height building. It is the one with the magnificent lobby. Although both buildings in the complex are similar in design, there is a distinction between the two. The terminal is taller and more ornate than the companion warehouse.

#20 hooked

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 08:51 AM

Thank you for clearing that up. One of those buildings needs a name change.

#21 John T Roberts

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 11:06 AM

One of those buildings needs a name change.

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Not really. All three buildings on the south side of Lancaster were designed by Wyatt C Hedrick and constructed at the same time. They were all a part of the same development. The only reason that the Post Office was designed in a different style is that the Postal Service wanted a more traditional government building than the Art Deco design of the Terminal and the Warehouse. For many years the Terminal and the Warehouse were operated as a freight and passenger depot for the Texas and Pacific Railway. I will post pictures of the two on this thread tonight to completely eliminate all of the confusion.

#22 AndyN

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 11:59 AM

Thank you for clearing that up.  One of those buildings needs a name change.

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Keeping the names separate is not a problem if you remember that one is the T&P DEPOT or TERMINAL, and the other is the T&P WAREHOUSE.
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#23 hooked

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 02:49 PM

I predict that at least one of those buildings will have the word "ALTA" in its name in the very near future, which should make things much easier for those of us who have trouble remembering to tie our shoes.

#24 safly

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 10:42 PM

Alta will be for the T&P art-deco building for the "T" terminal. Just East of the Post Office.
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#25 mosteijn

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 08:20 PM

Isn't the T&P Lofts development entirely separate from the Warehouse?

#26 David Love

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Posted 03 June 2006 - 12:31 PM

QUOTE(Jonnyrules23 @ May 9 2006, 09:20 PM) View Post

Isn't the T&P Lofts development entirely separate from the Warehouse?


Yes it is, was busy tracking malicious activity... For some reason I get these two mixed up...

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#27 John T Roberts

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Posted 18 July 2007 - 05:14 AM

The city is considering giving money to the developer of the T&P Warehouse for conversion into 260 apartments. Here's the Fort Worth Star-Telegram article: http://www.star-tele...ory/172589.html

#28 WTx

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Posted 18 July 2007 - 05:45 AM

I just saw that and all I can say is WOW! I just hope it can become reality?

#29 Fort Worthology

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Posted 18 July 2007 - 06:41 AM

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#30 vjackson

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Posted 18 July 2007 - 07:16 AM

QUOTE(WTx @ Jul 18 2007, 06:45 AM) View Post

I just saw that and all I can say is WOW! I just hope it can become reality?

Fingers crossed!! I love the idea of the metal scupltures on Lancaster Ave....if it's ever finished!!!

#31 Fort Worthology

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Posted 18 July 2007 - 08:19 AM

QUOTE(vjackson @ Jul 18 2007, 08:16 AM) View Post

Fingers crossed!! I love the idea of the metal scupltures on Lancaster Ave....if it's ever finished!!!


Streetlights and traffic lights are going up. It's starting to come together now, at last.

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#32 JBB

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Posted 18 July 2007 - 08:56 AM

WFAA ran a story on Lancaster last night:

FW's Lancaster Ave. sees renaissance

10:47 PM CDT on Tuesday, July 17, 2007

By DARLA MILES / WFAA-TV

For years, most of the growth in downtown Fort Worth has been on the north end.

But now that growth is reaching to the south end and east of I-35.

This concentration of redevelopment is along Lancaster Avenue.

West Lancaster today is relatively quiet - there are no shops, no restaurants, there is only a subtle buzz from construction taking place along the street.

But in January, the street should look completely different - there will be ornate light poles that punctuate the refurbishment of the historic buildings along the street.

"If you look at those buildings, they are the 20's art deco. There's something so beautiful and long-lasting about the artistic design in those structures," said Wendy Davis, a Fort Worth City Councilwoman.

One structure in particular, is the old T&P warehouse that has been empty for years. But a developer got the green light on Tuesday to transform the historic building into high-end apartments or condos. This activity is helping a renaissance on East Lancaster. A $1.5 million project is also underway at Oakland and Lancaster - a new grocery store and there are talks of a Starbucks.

"I think when I-30 came in it really was a detriment to that corridor, and it has really suffered in recent years," said Mayor Pro-Term, Kathleen Hicks.

Marshall Grain Pet and Plant has been on Lancaster for 60 years and withstood the economic blight that has taken place in the area. Jim Connelley bought the business two years ago.

"A lot of people in Fort Worth perceive this as a high-crime area," he said.

That's because of the three homeless shelters on Lancasters. Connelley has even considered closing shop. But not yet, not with the new growth that's coming in.

"I think that's great. The more that's done, the better it will be," Connelley said.

#33 safly

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Posted 18 July 2007 - 07:37 PM

QUOTE(John T Roberts @ Jul 18 2007, 06:14 AM) View Post

The city is considering giving money to the developer of the T&P Warehouse for conversion into 260 apartments. Here's the Fort Worth Star-Telegram article: http://www.star-tele...ory/172589.html



Perhaps SS should incorporate the same strategy in purchasing that final parking lot across from 8.0. Get the city to help buy the family out.
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#34 MetroCode

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 08:46 AM

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Breathing new life into a historic building
Tax money will help developer create living space in old T&P Warehouse
By ANTHONY SPANGLER
Star-Telegram Staff Writer


Breathing new life into a historic building
The dilapidated T&P Warehouse on the south edge of downtown Fort Worth will get as much as $9.1 million in tax money for renovations and construction of 260 apartments or condominiums under a deal reached with city officials.

The developer, Dallas-based Cleopatra Investments, plans to spend at least $35 million on the initial phase of the project, which is expected to be completed by 2012. A second phase, which would bring the project's overall cost to $75 million, might include retail space on the first floor and landscaping 5 acres of property behind the building.

"It is one of the two bookends to the old post office and key to revitalization of the Lancaster corridor," said City Council member Wendy Davis, who represents the downtown district. "It won't make any difference if we put in new light fixtures and a new street if we can't bring the building back to life."

The Fort Worth council was briefed on the deal Tuesday and is expected to vote formally to approve it in coming weeks. The project would be funded through a special taxing district that was created to spur development along Lancaster.

Historic preservation

It has taken city officials nearly four years to reach an agreement with Cleopatra President Ola Assem. The T&P Warehouse was most recently used as a haunted house and had been leased as a paintball arena but otherwise has been largely vacant since the 1970s.

Assem has been working for several years to develop a project for the building.

"It is hard to say what kind of impact it will have on the Lancaster corridor, but it is definitely positive progress," Assem said. "The land faces 742 feet of Lancaster. That would be a major property on any street. But it is a very important building as far as historic Fort Worth architecture."

The warehouse was built in 1931 along with the T&P depot and the old main post office. The site has a historic designation, so renovations will require approval from the Fort Worth Landmarks Commission and the Downtown Design Review Board; to keep tax credits, the plan must also face scrutiny from the federal park service and the Texas Historical Commission.

Attorneys are expected to finalize next week an agreement that would include clauses to preserve the historic facade of the T&P Warehouse and reduce or eliminate tax incentives should the developer convert the space into condominiums.

Condominiums are unlikely, however, because they would eliminate certain tax benefits available to historic buildings, said Jay Chapa, Fort Worth's deputy economic development director.

Lancaster progress

Council members were also briefed Tuesday on other Lancaster Avenue projects.

Assistant City Manager Dale Fisseler said traffic will be moved to the newly constructed lanes of Lancaster Avenue as early as next month. The street construction could be completed as early as October but most likely will not be finished until early 2008, he said.

And plans were unveiled for six 35-foot-high metal sculptures to be placed in the divided median of the new downtown stretch of Lancaster. The sculptures, which cost $220,000 each, will use metal plates that appear transparent at eye level and use reflected light to appear illuminated.

aspangler@star-telegram.com
Anthony Spangler, 817-390-7420

=====================================================================

I spoke with the president of Cleopatra Investments this morning who among things stated:

(1) This article is largely misleading (she'll elaborate more after things are signed off in FTW)

(2) The city is offering and nego. many incentives for her company to step in and make this happen

(3) They are about 4-6 months from doing any movement at all in regards to demo'ing etc.

As more develops on this project, i'll post it!
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#35 Fort Worthology

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 11:40 AM

QUOTE(MetroCode @ Jul 19 2007, 09:46 AM) View Post

I spoke with the president of Cleopatra Investments this morning who among things stated:

(1) This article is largely misleading (she'll elaborate more after things are signed off in FTW)

(2) The city is offering and nego. many incentives for her company to step in and make this happen

(3) They are about 4-6 months from doing any movement at all in regards to demo'ing etc.

As more develops on this project, i'll post it!


You have me intrigued. Do tell more. smile.gif

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#36 FW_Drew

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 07:48 AM

This is great and I hope it happens! Looks like you could burn a few calories hiking groceries back and forth from that parking lot. Heck I might even consider moving in since the close proximity to where I work and I really can't complain about buring a few extra calories either smile.gif

#37 Fort Worthology

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 09:26 AM

Better views of the renderings. That's not a parking lot - it's a parking garage, which surrounds new multi-story additions in the back, which in turn surround a plaza and fountain:

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#38 Sam Stone

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 10:09 AM

Wow! Looks great. So is that retail/restaurant/commercial that surrounds the plaza? Or a mix of that and residential?

#39 pelligrini

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 09:25 AM

That plaza will really need some landscaping, especially trees. It'll be on the South side of the building and the sun will really bake it. There will also be a lot of reflected solar off of the building itself.

Erik France


#40 bhudson

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 12:11 PM

QUOTE(pelligrini @ Oct 12 2007, 10:25 AM) View Post

That plaza will really need some landscaping, especially trees. It'll be on the South side of the building and the sun will really bake it. There will also be a lot of reflected solar off of the building itself.


Trees would be nice to provide shade, but I've walked around behind that building during the dead of summer (and more recently to see the staked well location) and you'd be surprised at how un-hot it actually is. Grass grows well back there even with no irrigation. I think if they can design the plaza without that huge expanse of concrete/pavestones, heat won't be any more of a problem than it is anywhere else around here.

#41 bhudson

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 07:33 AM

This may not be exactly the best place to post this, but I went walking around the Lancaster area during lunch late last week and it is nice to see progress along the Lancaster corridor. Landscaping is well underway, and I see that they have poured new sidewalks around the memorial in front of T&P station. It is going to look really nice. (On a side note, the curve in south main where it is re-routed to commerce street is dangerous, they need to put much better warnings in place for drivers coming north before median jumping and wrecks ensue).

The Jennings avenue bridge is now reopened and is a wonderfully glass-smooth road. Yesterday, when I left work, I took this route south and explored the Vickery/Pennsylvania/Hemphill/S. Henderson area. I think it is great to see the redevelopment extending from Lancaster into the areas just south of I-30. Redevelopment hasn't reached full-steam down there, but streets and properties have been cleaned up (from what I remember years back) to where the potential is apparent. I hope they clean up the Jennings bridge (and S. Main bridge for that matter) pedestrian pathways and install good lighting. With the exception of the bridge pathways and unfinished Lancaster, this is a very pedestrian friendly area, and I look forward to seeing it continue down that way.

#42 safly

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 02:16 PM

I hear the TNP is 90% spoken for and the attached shell is about 35%. Lookin good, reasonably priced too.
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#43 Fort Worthology

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Posted 11 February 2008 - 12:13 PM

The Texas & Pacific Warehouse is on Preservation Texas's list of Most Endangered Places for 2008 because of "several feet of water" in the basement. More words here:

http://westandclear....ndangered-list/



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#44 Fort Worthology

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 10:40 AM

Activity of some sort - looks like they're pumping the water out of the basement:


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#45 jth

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 05:33 PM

QUOTE (Atomic Glee @ Apr 18 2008, 11:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Activity of some sort - looks like they're pumping the water out of the basement:



My Father was the building engineer for the T&P Complex in the late 60's and early 70's. His office was in the basement of the Warehouse. I really hate that this building has been neglected all these years. I will tell you there will have to be asbestos abatement out the wazoo in that building. The floors were covered in asbestos impregnated bricks. And they're probably still there.


#46 T&PLoftDweller

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:30 PM

Had the opportunity to go in the warehouse back in January and couldn't pass up the chance. Here are some pictures I took on my cell phone:















Some of the pictures are obviously from the east side of the building that was offices, some from the warehouse part, and a few from the rooftop. Many of the areas were too dark to get any pictures. The structure seems to be in great condition, but the elevators have all fallen and it appeared that one of the offices had burned at some point. I'm new at posting, so hopefully the pictures show up!


Asbestos eh? That explains why my lungs hurt the next day...

#47 John T Roberts

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 05:01 PM

Over the last few years, I had the opportunity to tour the building twice. It also appears that nothing has changed on the inside. The building has great potential.

#48 Fort Worthology

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 12:19 PM











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#49 T&PLoftDweller

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 07:15 PM

AG - No quote to go with the images?

I guess most people on here know to check Fort Worthology!

#50 Templeofheaven

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 12:20 PM

Yeah... but it would be nice to be able to find all information that's available, here on the forum, rather than searching through multiple sites.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Downtown, Historic Buildings, Historic Preservation, Lancaster Corridor

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