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Alamo renovation and the Confederacy


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#1 johnfwd

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 12:15 PM

Renovation of the Alamo has been in the works for years, but now it may be running into the anti-Confederate monument/statue/flag movement.  I sincerely hope not.  As is noted in the FWBP article below, the battle for the Alamo occurred almost a quarter century before the Civil War.  The only tie-in for those wanting to remove the flags, statutes and monuments from public places is that many who fought and died in the Alamo were slaveholders. That makes sense, because most of the Texas heroes heralded from Kentucky, Tennessee, Louisiana, and some other southern states.  But the battle was fought mainly because of the tyranny of rule by Mexico during the 1820s and 1830s.

 

http://www.fortworth...1a0b439264.html



#2 renamerusk

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 12:57 PM

Yes, many of the newly arrived settlers were from the U.S. and were settling into what was Mexico/Texas.  The settlers wanted to import the laws and customs of the U.S., including slavery. 

 

It is questionable that the new settlers were fighting mainly because of tyranny of rule by Mexico. The underlying and more honest reason for the rebellion was to annex Texas to the U.S. and to adopt the culture of the Southern States. The fact is by 1861, Texas would secede from the U.S. and join the C.S.A.  I don't believe that these early Texans should be condemned but I also don't believe that they should be memorialized either. They are individuals of their time; and we are individuals of our time.

 

In the 21st Century, we should be honest about the history of Texas and its relationship to Mexico then and today. This also applies to the history of Texas and the Native Americans who lived here during those times.

 

johnfwd, you should be commended for your willingness to open this discussion, but it is yet another example of an uncomfortable discussion that should be thoroughly understood.



#3 johnfwd

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 06:05 AM

Yes, I know this is a difficult subject to explore.  But it goes to the unpleasant (but often good) reality of history in North America.  Your remark about "individuals of their time; and we are individuals of our time" rings very true.  What I take from the discussion is that we today have attained higher standards of ethics and morality but are tempted to apply our standards to those of yesteryear.

 

Locally we could be talking about Hell's Half Acre and the Stockyards.  Not to change the subject but the current effort is to "modernize" the Stockyards.  That effort is mostly to attract tourists.  Philosophically speaking, is it an effort to cleanse a rough-and-tumble Fort Worth history? The Stockyards was the terminal for the trail drives that brought the drovers to drink, gamble, and fight in the saloons and to entertain themselves in the brothels.  But there were also schools, churches, hotels, and stores, and many good citizens.  But without the initiative, the energy and, albeit the brutality, manifest in the drover's sordid behavior, Fort Worth might not be the prosperous and vital community of today.  We shouldn't be too harsh in judgment of history.

 

I believe we should preserve the history of the Alamo, as well as the Stockyards, without our morally righteous cleansing. 



#4 renamerusk

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 12:49 PM

Yes, I know this is a difficult subject to explore.....Locally we could be talking about Hell's Half Acre and the Stockyards...... The Stockyards was the terminal for the trail drives that brought the drovers to drink, gamble, and fight in the saloons and to entertain themselves in the brothels....We shouldn't be too harsh in judgment of history.

 

I believe we should preserve the history of the Alamo, as well as the Stockyards, without our morally righteous cleansing. 

 

The Alamo:Stockyards equivalency is unfair and

 

Rowdy cowboys, gambling and brothels engaging in morally public nuisances are not the same as individuals who engaged in civil war against a nation.  Yes, again, these are individuals of the time, but these are individuals who actions were not the same in scope.

 

It is not being too harsh to correct the historical record and to pull back on the exultation surrounding the events and the warriors at the Alamo while looking at them in a more enlightened perspective.



#5 Big Frog II

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 01:49 PM

History can be ugly.  However, to not honor the people who died at the Alamo just because they may have owned slaves is ridiculous.  One thing we do know for sure is that they did not fight in the Civil War.  People can not erase history just because they do not like it.



#6 renamerusk

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 07:20 PM

History can be ugly.  However, to not honor the people who died at the Alamo just because they may have owned slaves is ridiculous.  One thing we do know for sure is that they did not fight in the Civil War.  People can not erase history just because they do not like it.

 

 Yes, the did not fight it the U.S. Civil War, they fought as rebels in a civil war against Mexico. The Alamo and the Texas Revolution were fought to gain independence from Mexico, but some of the reasons for that fight can be questioned; and today if those reasons are being questioned and filtered, it is only to properly represent facts and not fiction.

 

The U.S. Civil War was about the right to hold slaves while the earlier fought Texas Revolution against Mexico was about the right to be a slave- holding territory. Eventually, Texas joined the U.S. as a slave holding state and was quickly and agreed upon that the annexation of California as a freehold state to counter Texas' admission. History should be properly logged and not erased; and honor should be properly bestowed.

 

The issue of slavery and its suggestive connection to the Alamo and the Texas Revolution is not at all ridiculous.



#7 hipolyte

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 07:34 PM

The issue of slavery was danced around as early as the Declaration of Independence. It was a divisive issue at the Constitutional Convention.  It is woven through the fabric of the history of this country. It touched and tainted every thing. (The Seminole Wars were inflamed by the attempts to recapture runaway slaves from tribes where they were accepted as equals. It was not until the black members of the tribes were allowed to remain with their adopted tribes that peace with the Seminoles was possible.)

What we need is more education, more honesty, about the noble or impure motives of some of those in the past, and less knee-jerk reaction. Some provocative complimentary sculptures such as the 'Fearless Girl' would be a great addition to some of these old monuments.



#8 renamerusk

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 08:04 PM

The issue of slavery was danced around as early as the Declaration of Independence. It was a divisive issue at the Constitutional Convention.  It is woven through the fabric of the history of this country. It touched and tainted every thing.....

 

Agreed.

 

History is filled mainly by the people of the time and it is better not to judge them for that reason; but it is not a reason either to honor them now that we know the stain that this has and is having on the country today.  .

 

The title of this topic questions why there are connections between the Alamo, the Confederacy and Mexico and appropriateness of doing so. I believe that the connections are plausible.  Now, the Alamo will be tasked to enlighten the public beyond simply glorifying the warriors.






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