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#1 Austin55

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 02:30 PM

The T is working to launch a new urban bus connector between downtown and the Cultural District.
 
 

 
 
 
uHMIc6o.jpg
 
 
It is 75% funded and expected to launch in the fall of 2018. It will be called "The Dash" and run every 15 minutes. The T is purchasing new, all electric and "sleek" buses to run the route, which will be the first of their kind with the T.  Buses will have WiFi. It will run 10 - 10 M-th and 10 - 2:30 am on Fri and Sat. The route will connect to the ITC and overlap Molly for a few blocks. I am unsure of a fare price, but I would assume it would be in the $2-4 range.

If the Dash is successful on W7th, plans call for a Southside connector next, followed by Stockyards/Panther Island, and finally Race Street as the final phase.

#2 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 03:22 PM

As I've said in another thread, I hope this service will have its own distinct stops stations, and will act more like a streetcar than a traditional bus.

 

How late into the evening will frequency remain at 15 minutes?

 

Eastbound Route 2 runs every 15 minutes until 7:00 (West 7th area), then there's 45-minute gap until the next bus, then there's a bus 15 minutes after that, then buses run once an hour.


- Dylan


#3 Austin55

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 03:30 PM

My understanding is it will run 15 mins the entire time. 



#4 rriojas71

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 09:21 AM

As I've said in another thread, I hope this service will have its own distinct stops stations, and will act more like a streetcar than a traditional bus.
 
How late into the evening will frequency remain at 15 minutes?
 

I like this idea. I had envisioned something similar to this but using streetcars instead of buses. I'm not sure if the new route, which shows it turning into the Crockett Row area the going south on Currie from W. 7th to Lancaster, is a good idea though. I think it will cause more traffic issues to an already congested area. I liked the previous plan of it using Van Cliburn, but that does mean it would have to go through the worst intersection in Fort Worth.

The routes I imagined would head out from DT to the areas mentioned in the first post. They would be short routes so that they could accommodate shorter wait times. If this is successful then maybe they could switch to streetcars in the future.

Just like you PAS... I hope that some distinct and unique stations appear along it's route to make it stand out to visitors and tourists.

#5 Austin55

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 04:42 PM

I wonder if they could work out some signal prioritization for the buses similar to how the SPUR route works, it would really come in handy especially at the "insanersection".

 

I'm definitely excited for this, it's a step in the right direction for sure.



#6 Russ Graham

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 06:50 AM

the new route, which shows it turning into the Crockett Row area the going south on Currie from W. 7th to Lancaster,


I very lazily googled this & didn't come up with anything, is there a picture of the new route online somewhere that you can post a link to?

#7 Austin55

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 10:41 AM

The new route is the one from the first post.

#8 Russ Graham

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 03:21 AM

Okay, for whatever reason the route didn't show up when I browsed this at work yesterday. Looks like they switched the CD loop to counter-clockwise so they only go through the insanersection (love that term) eastbound. If they came through the other way, they take the chance of getting stuck in the intersection waiting for valets and pedestrians in the road. I think it's a smart adjustment. And it connects to the ITC now, good deal. So our Dallas friends can come visit the Kimbell by train.

#9 Russ Graham

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 03:27 AM

By the way, all-electric buses? That's pretty cool. I wonder how many times a day they need to charge.

#10 Electricron

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 05:12 AM



By the way, all-electric buses? That's pretty cool. I wonder how many times a day they need to charge.

Not all electric buses use batteries. 

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Electric_bus

Proterra's new to the market Catalyst E2 Series bus is advertise at having a range of 350 miles.

https://www.wired.co...les-one-charge/

In stop and go city traffic with the bus averaging less than 30 mph, that's over 12 hours - longer than any driver's shift at work. I'm more worried about how long it will take to recharge its batteries.   



#11 renamerusk

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 12:18 PM

 

As I've said in another thread, I hope this service will have its own distinct stops stations, and will act more like a streetcar than a traditional bus...

 

I like this idea. I had envisioned something similar to this but using streetcars instead of buses. I'm not sure if the new route, which shows it turning into the Crockett Row area the going south on Currie from W. 7th to Lancaster, is a good idea though. I think it will cause more traffic issues to an already congested area. I liked the previous plan of it using Van Cliburn, but that does mean it would have to go through the worst intersection in Fort Worth....

 

In general, I like this idea but think the path should be altered.  I would discourage using 7th Street. - Period!

 

IMO, the better route between Downtown and the Cultural District is one using Lancaster Avenue.

 

Beginning at the T&P Terminal, stops/stations would be placed at Currie @ LA; Rip Johnson @LA; Gendy @ Tandy Burnett;  Harley @ Trail; and ending/returning at Trail @ Montgomery.  Such a route would provide service to the businesses south of 7th Street; the museums; parks and the DA without favoring anyone of them over any other.



#12 Jeriat

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 12:28 PM

 

 

As I've said in another thread, I hope this service will have its own distinct stops stations, and will act more like a streetcar than a traditional bus...

 

I like this idea. I had envisioned something similar to this but using streetcars instead of buses. I'm not sure if the new route, which shows it turning into the Crockett Row area the going south on Currie from W. 7th to Lancaster, is a good idea though. I think it will cause more traffic issues to an already congested area. I liked the previous plan of it using Van Cliburn, but that does mean it would have to go through the worst intersection in Fort Worth....

 

In general, I like this idea but think the path should be altered.  I would discourage using 7th Street. - Period!

 

IMO, the better route between Downtown and the Cultural District is one using Lancaster Avenue.

 

Beginning at the T&P Terminal, stops/stations would be placed at Currie @ LA; Rip Johnson @LA; Gendy @ Tandy Burnett;  Harley @ Trail; and ending/returning at Trail @ Montgomery.  Such a route would provide service to the businesses south of 7th Street; the museums; parks and the DA without favoring anyone of them over any other.

 

 

I'm actually ok with this on West 7th, but if it were a form of light rail, Lancaster.


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#13 Austin55

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 12:37 PM

I really like the route as planned.



#14 renamerusk

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 12:50 PM

 

I'm actually ok with this on West 7th, but if it were a form of light rail, Lancaster.

 

Whether it is form of light rail or motorbus, it should not really matter.  Instead, I believe that the 7th Street path narrowly focuses and favors the development along that single corridor at the expense of other points of interest in the area.

 

A transit corridor in the area must connect all of the points of interest in the area to become an effective means of transportation.  Cramming multiple transportation modes upon one single corridor is problematic in practical terms and is a dereliction of use of other efficient paths to achieve the goal of connecting Downtown to the Near West Side.

 

It is astonishing the small vision that The T routinely demonstrate in its ideas.  If  the FWTA insist upon using 7th Street for the DASH, it  will quickly realize that its plan will become the "DRIBBLE".



#15 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 01:22 PM

 

 

As I've said in another thread, I hope this service will have its own distinct stops stations, and will act more like a streetcar than a traditional bus...

 

I like this idea. I had envisioned something similar to this but using streetcars instead of buses. I'm not sure if the new route, which shows it turning into the Crockett Row area the going south on Currie from W. 7th to Lancaster, is a good idea though. I think it will cause more traffic issues to an already congested area. I liked the previous plan of it using Van Cliburn, but that does mean it would have to go through the worst intersection in Fort Worth....

 

In general, I like this idea but think the path should be altered.  I would discourage using 7th Street. - Period!

 

IMO, the better route between Downtown and the Cultural District is one using Lancaster Avenue.

 

Beginning at the T&P Terminal, stops/stations would be placed at Currie @ LA; Rip Johnson @LA; Gendy @ Tandy Burnett;  Harley @ Trail; and ending/returning at Trail @ Montgomery.  Such a route would provide service to the businesses south of 7th Street; the museums; parks and the DA without favoring anyone of them over any other.

 

 

Completely disagree.

 

By using the Lancaster route, you bypass Left Bank, Trinity Park, Stayton Street, and pretty much everything else east of Foch Street.

 

Your plan also misses Museum Place and the health campus, though a Lancaster line could loop north to serve those.


- Dylan


#16 renamerusk

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 01:51 PM

Completely disagree....By using the Lancaster route, you bypass Left Bank, Trinity Park, Stayton Street, and pretty much everything else east of Foch Street....Your plan also misses Museum Place and the health campus, though a Lancaster line could loop north to serve those.

 

 You chose to pick winners and losers; that should not be the goal of public transit.  There are clear points of interest in the Near West Side.  IMO, Left Bank, Stayton and the Foch Street businesses are not true points of interests, but merely places along the way.  The museums complex, the Will Rogers complex, the Arena complex and the Botanical Gardens/parks are true points of interest.

 

Mass transit does not nor should it be at the doorstep of every development.  It is perfectly acceptable to walk 1-4 blocks to catch a train or a bus.

 

You will have a mess connecting all of the dots that you propose be connected directly by DASH.

Trying to please everyone results in pleasing no one.



#17 AndyN

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 02:43 PM

Man, it's about butts in seats. Identify where your riders are, where they want to go and connect the two places.

 

Battery ZEBs sound good, but what is the environmental cost of the total lifecycle of the batteries? Not sure what flavor battery they are going with but lithium titanate batteries were mentioned on one of the buses electricron linked to. Battery production has issues and then end-of-life recycling and/or disposal need to be looked at in the big picture.

 

Personally, I prefer ETBs, but I realize the T doesn't have a budget for that and many complain the overhead contact system is visual pollution..


Www.fortwortharchitecture.com

#18 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 08:02 PM

 

Completely disagree....By using the Lancaster route, you bypass Left Bank, Trinity Park, Stayton Street, and pretty much everything else east of Foch Street....Your plan also misses Museum Place and the health campus, though a Lancaster line could loop north to serve those.

 

 You chose to pick winners and losers; that should not be the goal of public transit.  There are clear points of interest in the Near West Side.  IMO, Left Bank, Stayton and the Foch Street businesses are not true points of interests, but merely places along the way.  The museums complex, the Will Rogers complex, the Arena complex and the Botanical Gardens/parks are true points of interest.

 

Mass transit does not nor should it be at the doorstep of every development.  It is perfectly acceptable to walk 1-4 blocks to catch a train or a bus.

 

You will have a mess connecting all of the dots that you propose be connected directly by DASH.

Trying to please everyone results in pleasing no one.

 

 

Does the current proposed West 7th route look like a mess? The current proposal serves all of those "places along the way."

 

Left Bank is a lot more than 4 blocks away from the closest possible Lancaster stop.


- Dylan


#19 renamerusk

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 08:35 PM

1. Does the current proposed West 7th route look like a mess?

2. The current proposal serves all of those "places along the way."

3. Left Bank is a lot more than 4 blocks away from the closest possible Lancaster stop.

 

1. The proposed route is not a mess; instead it can be described as a disappointing attempt to provide an effective transit option for the area because it is short on providing service for a significant part of the area. Retracting "mess" if I may; it is a disappointment that will lead to a waste.  How could the planners of FWTA design a transit route and miss the key points of interest in the area? And why does the FWTA want to tackle what someone termed the "worst intersection in town" 7th/University/Camp Bowie/Baily?

 

2. The current proposal does not provide service to the DA and other points of interests such as the Botanical and Japanese Gardens to the south.  I would as far as to say that the propose route puts the shuttle at the door steps of  Currie Streets businesses while leaving visitors to the Science and Cowgirl museums with a greater walking distance.  I believe it is more desirable for museum patrons to have better access to these points of interest than for bar and restaurant patrons to have transit at the door.  Bar and restaurants use valet parking; museums do not.

 

3. When did Left Bank become a point of interest?  More importantly, why should transit decisions be determined by private development at the expense of the needs of the entire area.  In its current  configuration, LB is becoming an automobile centered project.

 

And why does the FWTA want to tackle what someone termed the "worst intersection in town" 7th/University/Camp Bowie/Baily?  I would wager that travel between Downtown and the Cultural District is a lot faster via Lancaster than via 7th Street. If you want to be known as the "Dash", you certainly would not use 7th Street.



#20 Austin55

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 09:25 PM

 

1. Does the current proposed West 7th route look like a mess?

2. The current proposal serves all of those "places along the way."

3. Left Bank is a lot more than 4 blocks away from the closest possible Lancaster stop.

 

1. The proposed route is not a mess; instead it can be described as a disappointing attempt to provide an effective transit option for the area because it is short on providing service for a significant part of the area. Retracting "mess" if I may; it is a disappointment that will lead to a waste.  How could the planners of FWTA design a transit route and miss the key points of interest in the area? And why does the FWTA want to tackle what someone termed the "worst intersection in town" 7th/University/Camp Bowie/Baily?

 

The key points of interest are nearly all there. The Cowgirl HoF and Science Museum are ~1,300 feet from the Amon Carter stop. I think only the Botanic is out of quick reach of the route, but I also don't believe it generates enough traffic for a bus every 15 minutes. The light is an issue, but it's possible the buses could come with signal priority similar to the SPUR route along Lancaster or what ambulances & fire trucks. It's also on the far end of the return route, which will probably be less heavily ridden.

 

Another thing, Lancaster has almost nothing going on in downtown. T&P station sees much less traffic and connection opportunities compared to the ITC. 

 

 

 

 

2. The current proposal does not provide service to the DA and other points of interests such as the Botanical and Japanese Gardens to the south.  I would as far as to say that the propose route puts the shuttle at the door steps of  Currie Streets businesses while leaving visitors to the Science and Cowgirl museums with a greater walking distance.  I believe it is more desirable for museum patrons to have better access to these points of interest than for bar and restaurant patrons to have transit at the door.  Bar and restaurants use valet parking; museums do not.

 

Dickies Arena does not even exist yet. I will assume the T has plans for helping connections to the arena when it is completed. The bars & restaurants are much more frequented trip destinations than any of the museum, especially with the concentration of them in the area. Also, the area around Currie has several hundred units of apartments, wouldn't be unusual to see DASH being used by downtown employees who live in W7th, and vice versa. 

 

 

 

 

3. When did eft Bank become a point of interest?  More importantly, why should transit decisions be determined by private development at the expense of the needs of the entire area.  In its current  configuration, LB is becoming an automobile centered project

 

When 1,000 units of apartments and the only grocery store in the area were built there. 

 

 

 

I would wager that travel between Downtown and the Cultural District is a lot faster via Lancaster than via 7th Street. If you want to be known as the "Dash", you certainly would not use 7th Street.

 

7th goes to the core of downtown, Lancaster goes to the edge. 7th has a much higher concentration of places where visitors and commuters might be congregating. 



#21 rriojas71

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 09:43 PM

I guess it all depends on what the goal of the Dash is going after.

1. Is it a free bus to help visitors get the the museums?

2. Is it a bus to help create a car-less way of living but charges a fare?

3. Is it a case study to see how a potential light rail circulator line might be like?

I think once that is determined then a potential route can be determined.

Also, I think Lancaster line would work if it went all the way to the ITC.... I think if you are downtown and want to access something on the Northern side of Dowmtown then you would use the Molly.

#22 Austin55

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 09:52 PM

Dash has its origins in the 2015 master plan to provide a premium service to dense core areas. It would give downtown and West7th residents and employees a way to quickly and reliably move back and forth between each neighborhood without needing a vehicle and connect tourists as well. 



#23 rriojas71

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 12:31 PM

Dash has its origins in the 2015 master plan to provide a premium service to dense core areas. It would give downtown and West7th residents and employees a way to quickly and reliably move back and forth between each neighborhood without needing a vehicle and connect tourists as well.


With knowing that info I think the route as planned is perfect for that. I think as Linwood and Foundry District grow more and take shape than this route would work well with making access easy for them. Lancaster would make it harder for them to get to.

#24 renamerusk

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 01:33 PM

1. The key points of interest are nearly all there. The Cowgirl HoF and Science Museum are ~1,300 feet from the Amon Carter stop. I think only the Botanic is out of quick reach of the route, but I also don't believe it generates enough traffic for a bus every 15 minutes. The light is an issue, but it's possible the buses could come with signal priority similar to the SPUR route along Lancaster or what ambulances & fire trucks. It's also on the far end of the return route, which will probably be less heavily ridden.

 

2. Another thing, Lancaster has almost nothing going on in downtown. T&P station sees much less traffic and connection opportunities compared to the ITC. 

 

3. Dickies Arena does not even exist yet. I will assume the T has plans for helping connections to the arena when it is completed. The bars & restaurants are much more frequented trip destinations than any of the museum, especially with the concentration of them in the area. Also, the area around Currie has several hundred units of apartments, wouldn't be unusual to see DASH being used by downtown employees who live in W7th, and vice versa. 

 

4. When 1,000 units of apartments and the only grocery store in the area were built there.

 

5. 7th goes to the core of downtown, Lancaster goes to the edge. 7th has a much higher concentration of places where visitors and commuters might be congregating. 

 

 

 1. So it is preferable for the bar scene to be accommodated with ease; and not the museums located considerably south of 7th Street?  1,300 ft is a marathon in hot, steam Texas weather or frigid, wet weather for disable, senior and children.  I see that the concentration of apartments in the Currie Street corridor are equal distance from either 7th or Lancaster; so that is a wash.  Given what happens when an EMS vehicle controls a traffic signal from a distance and the accompanying inconvenience, I think idea of public transit doing the same for 2-3 passengers & driver every 15 minutes would be viewed as a major annoyance at this wildly used intersection.

 

2. I thought DASH is a connector service with the goal to connect Downtown and the Near West Side; not to connect specific businesses.

 

3. DA will exist; so why not establish the connector so that it provide service to existing points of interest that are near DA.  It makes sense to do it; not to assume that it will happen.  Besides, as the DA comes to being, Montgomery Street will likely see it share of bars and restaurants too. Employees already have T bus service to Downtown.

 

4. Aren't there any number of developments with residential and shopping?  Why not a DASH to connect Downtown to Edwards Ranch - Clearfork?

 

5. Not true; harder to prove.



#25 Russ Graham

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 11:40 AM

1. So it is preferable for the bar scene to be accommodated with ease; and not the museums located considerably south of 7th Street?  ...  I see that the concentration of apartments in the Currie Street corridor are equal distance from either 7th or Lancaster; so that is a wash.

 

RR, please examine the route that was posted above!  The proposed route does everything you are asking for.  It serves the museums along Lancaster and the apartments on Currie.

 

West 7th is the most logical route for a variety of reasons - it's the most direct route, the fastest, and the most likely to benefit from reduced congestion when people can use public transit instead of individual cars. 

 

It's also the most photogenic - the West 7th bridge is fast becoming a Fort Worth landmark.



#26 renamerusk

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:18 PM

 

1. The proposed route does everything you are asking for.  It serves the museums along Lancaster and the apartments on Currie.

 

2. West 7th is the most logical route for a variety of reasons - it's the most direct route, the fastest, and the most likely to benefit from reduced congestion when people can use public transit instead of individual cars. 

 

3. It's also the most photogenic - the West 7th bridge is fast becoming a Fort Worth landmark.

 

 

 1. The proposed route is incomplete and stops short.  It serves some but not all the museums; and it doesn't serve the apartments along Currie anymore than a route along LA can do.

 

 2. Not true.  Hard to justify it to be more logical than LA.   The museums are located along LA  and not 7th Street, therefore is a losing argument to assert that  7th Street as the most direct route; it is not geographically true.  Congestion is greater along 7th than LA; and this is observable and provable.

 

3. Yes; the West 7th Street Bridge(Van Cliburn Bridge) is photogenic, but the LA Bridge has photogenic appeal and could easily be made very photogenic with new lighting. Of course there are the historic homes that sit atop the bluff and the nice view of the river, park and the museums in the near horizon.



#27 rriojas71

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 02:00 PM

Renamerusk... I'm not sure why you are saying that it stops short.

According to map on the initial post the route shows that it will use Lancaster from Currie to Montgomery. I think that serves all the museums and makes the botanical gardens and Dickies Arena within a short walk. Plus it encapsulates W.7th from Currie to the Bridge; something a route using the Lancaster Bridge will not be able to accommodate effectively.

overall it's a win-win

#28 renamerusk

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 03:33 PM

Renamerusk... I'm not sure why you are saying that it stops short.

According to map on the initial post the route shows that it will use Lancaster from Currie to Montgomery. I think that serves all the museums and makes the botanical gardens and Dickies Arena within a short walk. Plus it encapsulates W.7th from Currie to the Bridge; something a route using the Lancaster Bridge will not be able to accommodate effectively.

overall it's a win-win

 

It stops short and is unfair because the DASH places a priority in serving Currie Street establishments (direct convenience) above patrons who would wish to visit the CHoF and Botanic Gardens. DASH would require the latter to have a much longer trek than bar and restaurant patrons.  I think that it is not the duty of public transportation to make private businesses in the W7 project more accessible than its duty to make public institutions like CHoF. S&H Museum and the parks well south of 7th Street more accessible.  The path favors the West 7th Street corridor at the expense of most everything else in the area.  IMO, the DASH should include equal access by extending its route to the southern points of interest that are being disengaged.  If the Currie Street Association would be willing to add a transit surcharge on their patrons check, then I think it would be acceptable.

 

Am I wrong in thinking that there already exist a FWTA route that uses 7th Street?

 

Again, it is not the duty of the FWTA to encapsulate "West 7th" any more than for it to encapsulate any other deserving projects or entertainment district.



#29 rriojas71

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 10:05 PM

Renamerusk... I'm not sure why you are saying that it stops short.
According to map on the initial post the route shows that it will use Lancaster from Currie to Montgomery. I think that serves all the museums and makes the botanical gardens and Dickies Arena within a short walk. Plus it encapsulates W.7th from Currie to the Bridge; something a route using the Lancaster Bridge will not be able to accommodate effectively.
overall it's a win-win

 
It stops short and is unfair because the DASH places a priority in serving Currie Street establishments (direct convenience) above patrons who would wish to visit the CHoF and Botanic Gardens. DASH would require the latter to have a much longer trek than bar and restaurant patrons.
 
Am I wrong in thinking that there already exist a FWTA route that uses 7th Street?
 
Again, it is not the duty of the FWTA to encapsulate "West 7th" any more than for it to encapsulate any other deserving projects or entertainment district.

I understand your rationale, but you're putting an emphasis that the Dash is meant to serve the museums and other attractions in and around WRMC. As someone else noted in an earlier post, the city's goal for Dash is to create an easy and convenient way to move people between downtown and West 7th, the Cultural District & UNTHSC.

As a resident I spend much more time weekly and monthly on and around West 7th, Trinity Park, Museum Place & Downtown. I love the cultural district, but I maybe visit the actual area to participate in it's attractions 4 or 5 times a year. I get what you mean about it not being the duty of the FWTA to favor an area over another, but I believe it is their duty to get people where they want to go especially if we as a city want to create a more pedestrian and public-transit oriented central core.

A line dedicated solely for our city attractions is a great thing to have to help showcase our civic pride, but having convenient transit options for the resident population is much more of a priority in my opinion.

#30 tcecil

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 09:28 AM

Having bounced around 7th Street and downtown for years, I'm very excited about this route.  Yes, there are already routes which go along 7th Street (the 2) and service all the museums (the 57), as well as a bus that goes down Lancaster, then University to get to the botanical gardens and the Zoo (the 7).  All very useful if you have a leisurely day.  But  when you are trying to commute, run from a meeting on one side of town to another, or help friends/clients/colleagues who are taking the TRE into town to meet at unusual times, this seems pretty hard to beat.  Both downtown and West 7th are dense areas where I meet folks and run errands.  The lack of regular, reliable transit along that route meant that I was often limited to what I could carry unless I drove to the grocery store.  With Oliver's out of downtown, an even bigger plus now that I could potentially get service to the front door of Tom Thumb.

 

To me it's a positive. 

 

As for Rename's points, well, I know I'm just one data point, but I don't think I'd be thrilled about a frequent Lancaster bus.  Just wouldn't move my needle - Lancaster is a desert and a frightening spot for pedestrians.  This thing, though - can't wait.



#31 renamerusk

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 10:17 AM

Having bounced around 7th Street and downtown for years, I'm very excited about this route.....As for Rename's points, well, I know I'm just one data point, but I don't think I'd be thrilled about a frequent Lancaster bus.  Just wouldn't move my needle - Lancaster is a desert and a frightening spot for pedestrians.  This thing, though - can't wait.

 

I am not oppose to this idea.  If its goal is to offer patrons an easy and direct connection between Downtown and the Cultural District , then its primary objective is poorly executed.  A route along can have stations at Currie, Rip Johnson; turned down Gendy with a station at Justin/CHof and continue to a west gate to the Botanic Gardens.  It would also be already in place to provide a station at DA when it opens.

 

Yes, West 7th Street is more vibrant than LA, but that is not why DASH is being proposed.  I thought that it is being proposed to bring mainly tourist to the many points of interest that make up the Cultural District.  The FWTA  already addresses the public transportation needs of the 7th Street.  If DASH is duplicating a section of an already existing T-Route#2, then it is miss allocating resources.

 

An out of town tourist wanting to visit the museums, WRMC, the Botanical Gardens would not be interested in seeing the heart of Currie Street and the apartment complex thereby; and seeing them probably does not move the needle for them in anyway.   As a resident, I would not like to pay the extra taxi fare to go the Cultural District via 7th St.; instead the right, quick and direct route to the Cultural District is by way of LA.

 

Fort Worth has a perfectly maintained and vehicular friendly road - LA; and its rather curious to me how easily LA is being ignored as a viable option.   Squeezing additional traffic onto 7th St and butting heads with an 8-pointed, heavily congested intersection is neither convenient or easy; it add additions travel time. What I am hearing is 7th St is interesting but that really does not have much to do with the convenience and ease of getting between DT and CD.

 

It is more important that DASH do this correctly than to do it in a hurry; so yes it can wait for the right path to be put into place.



#32 tcecil

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 12:19 PM

One quick note, rename, my wording was ambiguous. Should have said "I can't wait." Sorry for the confusion there. I'll have to consider the rest of your response. My initial gestalt is that I'd rather wait in traffic and be able to hop on/off on 7th. I work in Museum Place, presently live along 7th, and am moving downtown in a month. Hence my "[I] can't wait" excitement. The city certainly can wait and plan this out deliberately.

There are various issues with the 2 line. The primary one is that if you're headed downtown and you miss the 6:15, you're stuck for a while. I'd have to think more about city priorities and transit to really be able to respond further. Just figured I'd offer my personal motivation (read:selfish?) in the meanwhile.

#33 renamerusk

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 02:04 PM

Again as stated earlier within this thread, I am not oppose to the idea of a specialty shuttle between Downtown and the Cultural District; and eventually adding shuttles to other districts within the City.  What I see is FWTA not giving enough forethought to the route so that it can provide service to the greatest amount of potential ridership.  IMO, the DASH would be able to realize (1) a quicker arrival to CD by using LA;  and would also be able (2) to have the greatest appeal to visitors wanting to get to all of what is the Cultural District simply by adding the Gendy Street corridor to its route.

 

The solution for 7th Street is for the FWTA to somehow increase frequency.



#34 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 03:55 PM

Gotta disagree with the idea that a Lancaster route would have more ridership than a West 7th route. Lancaster bypasses more points of interest.

 

That said, fewer passengers would probably result in faster service. I'll give you that.


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#35 Electricron

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 07:24 PM

There's already are buses on W. 7th Street. Another new line using different buses isn't needed as much as more buses on the existing line.
What FWTA should be looking at implementing is rapid bus services, fewer stops along major boulevards. A rapid bus line on W. 7th extended further out along Camp Bowie could provide faster bus service into downtown Fort Worth from its western neighborhoods. Similar rapid bus lines could work on other major thoroughfares within Fort Worth as well. Circulators should be provided by local bus lines, unless you plan to offer free rides in which case the free circulator should be limited to a very, very small area and very, very small buses.
The major complaint on why passengers don't ride buses is because they are so slow getting anywhere. Rapid bus lines in just one of many solutions for increasing the average speed of buses.

#36 renamerusk

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:17 PM

Gotta disagree with the idea that a Lancaster route would have more ridership than a West 7th route. Lancaster bypasses more points of interest.

 

That said, fewer passengers would probably result in faster service. I'll give you that.

 

There appears to be mass confusion about what this route is intended for.  I take my lead from the title of this thread and apply the following meaning the comments that I post:

 

Oxford English Dictionary - "connector"

1. A thing which links two or more things together.

 

Thing 1 is Downtown; Thing 2 is the Cultural District.  7th Street is not a point of interest; it is a strip of commercial and residential enterprises.  All things between 1 and 2 are irrelevant.

 

For example, in the HSR threads, the things are Downtown Dallas (Fort Worth) and Downtown Houston; and serve as the reason for the HSR connector.  If visiting the many small towns between the two points being connected is what you like, then you take a road trip; but if you want a quick and direct connection between Fort Worth Downtown, Dallas Downtown and Houston Downtown you take the HSR. 

 

A road project having a similar goal is the Lamar - Hemphill Connector which is a link between Thing 1 - Downtown and Thing 2 - Near South.

 

Now to the DASH Connector - from Downtown Fort Worth, one might board at a Courthouse or a Convention Center station to begin a direct and rapid shuttle to Cultural District stations at LA/Rip Johnson, Gendy/Harley and Trail/Montgomery.  This would constitute a true "connector" service. Ridership should be counted from boarding numbers and unboarding numbers at these 5 stations. 



#37 Doohickie

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 10:45 PM

Can't you just accept that people might disagree with your opinion, renamerusk?


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#38 Austin55

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 11:21 PM

Hey Renamerusk, are you familiar with Route 57? It essentially goes the route you're describing

 

http://www.the-t.com.../direction/FROM

 

 

There's already are buses on W. 7th Street. Another new line using different buses isn't needed as much as more buses on the existing line.
What FWTA should be looking at implementing is rapid bus services, fewer stops along major boulevards. A rapid bus line on W. 7th extended further out along Camp Bowie could provide faster bus service into downtown Fort Worth from its western neighborhoods. Similar rapid bus lines could work on other major thoroughfares within Fort Worth as well. Circulators should be provided by local bus lines, unless you plan to offer free rides in which case the free circulator should be limited to a very, very small area and very, very small buses.
The major complaint on why passengers don't ride buses is because they are so slow getting anywhere. Rapid bus lines in just one of many solutions for increasing the average speed of buses.

 

Do you think there's some value in the marketability of a different sort of bus on this circulator route? I do see it as odd to have two busses that would run every 15 mins (between DASH and Rt 3 anyway) on parts of 7th. Maybe the residents/visitors to the area would be more likely to use a unique/higher quality product? 

I do think simply adding more frequency to route 2 would suffice pretty well, but wouldnt be as exciting or sexy as the new concept proposal.



#39 renamerusk

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:58 AM

1. Can't you just accept that people might disagree with your opinion, renamerusk?

 

 

2. Hey Renamerusk, are you familiar with Route 57? It essentially goes the route you're describing....

 

3. Do you think there's some value in the marketability of a different sort of bus on this circulator route?

 

1. I'm struck by your remark.  The among the reasons for the Forum, is that it is a place where differing opinions can be aired.  It would probably die on the vine if we always agreed.  In the case of this particular thread, it would probably only have one reply if any at all if a differing opinion was not made; instead a number of members have weighed in; and whether or not they agreed with me or not, I believe it has been a fruitful discussion.  What is okay too are "one-liners" and attempts to be humorous even though they are, by in large, loaded with empty calories, they are welcome.  I believe also that JTR agrees with view that I am taking and has in the past posted words to that affect encouraging more comments and opinions to keep the Forum an interesting and vital tool for debating issues important to Fort Worth. As long as the opinions are respectful and civil; and non personal, then I am perfectly comfortable with people disagreeing with me.

 

2. Not really until now.  The established routes are traditional routes that have a different goal from the proposed goal of "DASH".  Comparing Rte#57 to DASH is comparing apples to oranges. A connector is not the same as a traditional route; they each have separate objectives.

 

3. I agree and support this proposal.  Where I disagree is that it will be ineffective in connecting Downtown to the Cultural District if it travels north to 7th Street instead were it to travel south along Gendy Street towards a number of more important points of interest.



#40 Doohickie

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:44 AM

I'm struck by your remark.


Your tone just struck me more contentious than need be.  Like everyone else was having a conversation, and you're arguing a case in court.  Maybe it's just one of those "you can't hear tone of voice through written word" things; maybe I'm reading too much into it.


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#41 renamerusk

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 12:12 PM

 

I'm struck by your remark.


Your tone just struck me more contentious than need be.  Like everyone else was having a conversation, and you're arguing a case in court.  Maybe it's just one of those "you can't hear tone of voice through written word" things; maybe I'm reading too much into it.

 

 Odd interpretation.  Throughout this discussion no one has given any indication that my tone was contentious other than yourself when you then actually weighed in for the first time with the judgement that I "cannot accept" opinions or people who disagree with me.

 

I am not one who will swallow my opinions just to get along with someone; and I hope that this is not the way people behave generally  because when one does not express their own opinion; others will be happy to do or to decide a position for you.

 

 We disagree...we disagree..that is the essence of the Forum.



#42 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 02:41 PM

There's already are buses on W. 7th Street. Another new line using different buses isn't needed as much as more buses on the existing line.
What FWTA should be looking at implementing is rapid bus services, fewer stops along major boulevards. A rapid bus line on W. 7th extended further out along Camp Bowie could provide faster bus service into downtown Fort Worth from its western neighborhoods. Similar rapid bus lines could work on other major thoroughfares within Fort Worth as well. Circulators should be provided by local bus lines, unless you plan to offer free rides in which case the free circulator should be limited to a very, very small area and very, very small buses.
The major complaint on why passengers don't ride buses is because they are so slow getting anywhere. Rapid bus lines in just one of many solutions for increasing the average speed of buses.

 

Your first two comments are why I'm hoping The Dash will act like a streetcar with stations (all marked on a map), platforms, ticket machines, etc.

 

You're right that The Dash probably won't provide anything much different than route 2. That said, there are many people who won't step foot in a traditional bus that may ride The Dash if it's marketed differently. Hopefully, The Dash will have higher late-night frequency than route 2.


- Dylan


#43 Doohickie

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 03:55 PM

Odd interpretation.


Like I said, it may have just been not being able to interpret tone over the internet.
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#44 Russ Graham

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 06:25 AM

I don't think I'd be thrilled about a frequent Lancaster bus.  Just wouldn't move my needle - Lancaster is a desert and a frightening spot for pedestrians.  This thing, though - can't wait.


I couldn't agree more.

#45 pelligrini

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 09:28 AM

 

 

 

Your first two comments are why I'm hoping The Dash will act like a streetcar with stations (all marked on a map), platforms, ticket machines, etc.

 

You're right that The Dash probably won't provide anything much different than route 2. That said, there are many people who won't step foot in a traditional bus that may ride The Dash if it's marketed differently. Hopefully, The Dash will have higher late-night frequency than route 2.

 

 

Having an easily identifiable bus, especially for the entirely unaccustomed tourist, would probably be a good thing. A quick looping route would probably help as well.

 

I took a quick look at #2 and its frequency and it is similar to the proposed DASH along some sections. If I were on the north side of 7th on a hot day I wouldn't think twice about getting aboard the dash to head downtown, even though it is headed the other direction. But if I hopped on the #2 by mistake it would be quite some time before I made it downtown.

 

I welcome the idea of the DASH, and the proposed route makes a lot of sense to me.


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#46 Austin55

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 12:33 PM

FWBP has the First official word on the Dash. 

 

 

“The Dash is intended to be a great transit option for connecting downtown with the Cultural District during the day and with 7th Street entertainment venues later at night,

 

-It does'nt sound like it will run every 15 all day, only peak hours. Hopefully it stays frequent for the bulk of the day though.

 

-Will charge same as regular bus, $2 for a ride, $5 all day.

 

-it will run 4 buses total.

 

http://www.fortworth...84a8ad438b.html



#47 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 11:02 PM

Bad news: I've been told The Dash would probably use existing bus stops if it happens.

 

Apparently, people will run from a rail station to a bus stop or vise versa if both routes go where they're headed and one shows up before the other.

 

The Dash would essentially be a shortened route 2. In my opinion, FWTA would be better off expanding route 2's schedule.


- Dylan


#48 renamerusk

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 11:21 PM

Molly the Trolley and now DASH.

 

FWTA is demonstrating just how unskilled that it is in doing simple things.  Why not route the DASH along Lancaster Avenue; it is a direct, less confusing and quicker route between Downtown and the Cultural District  than West 7th could ever be.



#49 rriojas71

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 02:36 AM

Molly the Trolley and now DASH.
 
FWTA is demonstrating just how unskilled that it is in doing simple things.  Why not route the DASH along Lancaster Avenue; it is a direct, less confusing and quicker route between Downtown and the Cultural District  than West 7th could ever be.

Because using Lancaster is not as convenient for the people who will most likely use it. Once you are on Lancaster and leave downtown there is not much along Lancaster that people will want to get to. From the intersection at Summit and Lancaster in the upper West side to a potential stop at either Curry or University it is a long distance for a connector to travel without a stop. If your only stop is the Cultural District, UNTHSC or WRMC then Lancaster would be the best route.

However Lancaster is not convenient to riders who want to go to Montgomery Plaza, Left Bank, Foundry District, Trinity Park or Parkside. To most users heading to those areas it would be too far of a walk from Lancaster and a walk made even worse on hot days.

Also, I'm not exactly sure how using West 7th is confusing but I do agree that it would be quicker.

#50 renamerusk

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 08:21 AM

As the stated purpose given in Post#1, DASH is a quick connector between Downtown and the Cultural District.

 

West 7th Street is not the CD; it is a corridor which is a segment  along the way of a longer corridor that provides public transportation to the western neighbors of the City. The convenience to and from all of the developments that peppers the landscape between Downtown and the CD is provided by regular bus.  If additional bus service is demanded, then an increase in regular bus service should be considered.

 

Why should DASH connects all points between Downtown and the CD when it does not connect all points within Downtown (SSQ,Courthouse, CC,etc).  Downtown riders will have to walk comparable blocks within Downtown to board DASH to the CD; is this not inconvenient too?  Is walking two or three blocks north to 7th Street through and within the Curry District so inconvenient.  Is DASH purposed to doorstop every development in West Fort Worth or is it purposed to get riders to the CD where they will have to walk from museum to museum, etc.?

 

To get you riders from Downtown to the CD area that is bound by Lancaster - Camp Bowie - University - Montgomery was the original goal. Presumably DASH target market is the tourist and visitor rider.   FWTA ,as is its typical fashion, is having difficult in identifying its market and its purpose.






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