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SWBTS Developments

Seminary Hill SWBTS Southwestern Baptist Seminary Southside New Construction

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#1 Austin55

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 02:36 PM

SWBTS is a bit of a hidden architectural gem of Fort Worth. I've only even seen the place up close once or twice to be honest, it doesn't get talked about much and it's rare to see photos or news of it in press or social media.  

 

They are working on a $12 million building, you can see the rendering and a live feed of construction here. The building looks to be fully framed and topped out. 



#2 Doohickie

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 06:14 PM

The building looks quite a bit like MacGorman Chapel...

 

macgorman.jpg

 

...with the tower removed.

 

alumni-mathena.jpg?itok=Y2sMeCzg

The Seminary is about the midway point between the Near Southside and my house, and lies right along the route. I've ridden through there hundreds of times.


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#3 dangr.dave

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 09:17 AM

I went there one day to take photos of the buildings, but security stopped me.  Started telling me something about a history of people taking pictures to make the place look bad or something.  I remember them saying something about a fountain with Jesus and Photoshop...who knows...it was several years ago when they stopped me.  Maybe I just looked suspicious that day...I tend to have that effect on people.



#4 John T Roberts

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 10:21 AM

Dave, were you on the city right-of-way, or were you "on campus"?  There have always seemed to be so few students "on campus", I have chosen to take my architectural photographs from the public right-of-way only.  I have never been hassled, but I have been given the "evil eye" by security before. 

 

Since TCU is larger, I have taken several of my photographs "on campus" and inside the public right-of-way.  There is one thing to remember.  These are private campuses and therefore private property.  If you are not a student, or possibly an alumni, you could be considered trespassing. 



#5 Doohickie

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 10:23 AM

I've taken pictures on campus and haven't had anyone hassle me.  As mentioned already, I ride through there quite a bit and make a habit of waving to the security dudes.  Maybe they think I'm part of the campus (student or staff) so they don't bother me.  Or maybe they never noticed me since I don't take a lot of pics at once.


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#6 renamerusk

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 11:21 AM

I went there one day to take photos of the buildings, but security stopped me.  Started telling me something about a history of people taking pictures to make the place look bad or something.  I remember them saying something about a fountain with Jesus and Photoshop...who knows...it was several years ago when they stopped me.  Maybe I just looked suspicious that day...I tend to have that effect on people.

 

Sounds like a case of paranoia.  What do they have to hide? :ninja:



#7 Doohickie

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 12:30 PM

Gotta protect the brand.


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#8 johnfwd

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 03:45 PM

I've taken pictures on campus and haven't had anyone hassle me.  As mentioned already, I ride through there quite a bit and make a habit of waving to the security dudes.  Maybe they think I'm part of the campus (student or staff) so they don't bother me.  Or maybe they never noticed me since I don't take a lot of pics at once.

Judging by your photo (with the bike club), you come across as an imposing figure, so they probably thought you were someone in authority and left you alone.



#9 Doohickie

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 04:23 PM

 

I've taken pictures on campus and haven't had anyone hassle me.  As mentioned already, I ride through there quite a bit and make a habit of waving to the security dudes.  Maybe they think I'm part of the campus (student or staff) so they don't bother me.  Or maybe they never noticed me since I don't take a lot of pics at once.

Judging by your photo (with the bike club), you come across as an imposing figure, so they probably thought you were someone in authority and left you alone.

 

Could be.  Who knows.  Funny thing is when I was a kid in school, even though I was tall I was pretty thin and caught my fair share of bullying.  I don't think of myself as imposing but yeah, every once in a while I'll see myself in a picture and realize how much taller I am than the average person.

 

The only time one of the campus security guys questioned me was when I got a flat one night near Rosemont Park.  I rolled over to the SWBTS campus and changed my tube in their parking lot since it was well lit... and I knew they had armed guards.  One of the security guys pulled up and asked if I was okay or needed help.  I told him I was good and he was on his way.

 

Like I said, I've been through there enough that they may think I'm part of the campus somehow.  Actually, I try to wave and/or ring my bell as I ride through all the neighborhoods.  For all they know, I live right around the corner, not 5 miles away.


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#10 renamerusk

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 07:55 PM

....The only time one of the campus security guys questioned me was when I got a flat one night near Rosemont Park.  I rolled over to the SWBTS campus and changed my tube in their parking lot since it was well lit... and I knew they had armed guards....

 

Geez, this place sounds scary; reminds me somewhat of the Davidians.  I thought Christianity is all about peace, love and welcoming a stranger.



#11 Doohickie

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 08:51 PM

 

....The only time one of the campus security guys questioned me was when I got a flat one night near Rosemont Park.  I rolled over to the SWBTS campus and changed my tube in their parking lot since it was well lit... and I knew they had armed guards....

 

Geez, this place sounds scary; reminds me somewhat of the Davidians.  I thought Christianity is all about peace, love and welcoming a stranger.

 

I think it's more about the neighborhood they're situated in.  I've noted multiple cop cars several times at Rosemont Park just a few blocks away late in the evening.

 

Although honestly, I don't feel unsafe in that neighborhood at all, even near the park.  I think its reputation is worse than the reality.

 

The worst part of riding that area at night is the German Shepherd on Ryan Avenue just south of Biddison.  The owners put it out at night and leave the gate open.  It comes out into the street barking loudly.  It doesn't attack, it's just greeting me, but if I'm not thinking about it, it scares the wits out of me.  (I really should notify Animal Control.)


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#12 renamerusk

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 08:57 PM

I think it's more about the neighborhood they're situated in.....Although honestly, I don't feel unsafe in that neighborhood at all, even near the park.  I think its reputation is worse than the reality.

 

 Perhaps, but isn't correct to say that there are other religious properties in the immediate neighborhood, even in neighborhoods with equally bad reputations in the City who could arms themselves but haven 't.  Really, SWBTS should embrace its neighborhood and make the general public feel that it is welcomed.

 

C'mom, an armed sentry strikes me as being overly protective. :glare:



#13 Doohickie

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 09:58 PM

To be fair, I haven't actually *seen* armed security.  There's definitely a security presence, there are signs that say the campus is patrolled by armed security, but I haven't actually seen any guns.

 

I don't know.  If it were *just* a church I'd say you're right, but you have a bunch of people's sons and daughters and if the neighborhood is sketchy... 

 

I checked and Wesleyan has armed security.


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#14 JBB

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Posted 16 November 2016 - 02:28 PM

Really, SWBTS should embrace its neighborhood and make the general public feel that it is welcomed.
 
C'mom, an armed sentry strikes me as being overly protective. :glare:

I agree completely with your first statement, but it is normal for a college campus to have 24 hour armed security or even fully commissioned police officers.

#15 johnfwd

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 06:41 AM

I have no qualms about the theological seminary campus having armed police, particularly in this day and age when even church's are not sacrosanct when it comes to violent incidents (as we locally are quite aware of).



#16 renamerusk

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 07:01 AM

I have no qualms about the theological seminary campus having armed police, particularly in this day and age when even church's are not sacrosanct when it comes to violent incidents (as we locally are quite aware of).

 

 Cards on the table; I am not religious and do not attend a church, but I do feel that it is scary and would be intimidating to have guns in churches or places that are established as solely as religious institutions.



#17 Doohickie

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 08:04 AM

 

I have no qualms about the theological seminary campus having armed police, particularly in this day and age when even church's are not sacrosanct when it comes to violent incidents (as we locally are quite aware of).

 

 Cards on the table; I am not religious and do not attend a church, but I do feel that it is scary and would be intimidating to have guns in churches or places that are established as solely as religious institutions.

 

But a learning institution run by a church is a different animal.


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#18 renamerusk

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 09:47 AM

But a learning institution run by a church is a different animal.

 

Well, it all depends upon whether you as an institution is welcoming to strangers. From the remarks being made concerning SWBTS, it as an institution that seems to have a fortress mentality. 

 

What I am saying is that isn't it ironic that a stranger might feel intimidated by their overt security while attempting to understand how the teaching of scripture is being learned; and isn't ironic that when as a missionary to the world, you take that same mentality to the streets and pulpits of the real world.

 

As different animals go, learning institutions affiliated or semi-affiliated to religion (TCU, SMU, Baylor) choose to have a balanced perspective about the level of security and being an open institution to the their respective city and neighborhoods.



#19 JBB

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 10:12 AM

I think it's worth pointing out that you're referring to the campus as having a "fortress mentality" based on one person's experience from "several years ago."

#20 renamerusk

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 11:58 AM

... a "fortress mentality" based on one person's experience from "several years ago."

 

Point well made.  Like with "yelp", it is good to remember that there may be a bias or other circumstances to take into account. :unsure:



#21 Doohickie

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 10:58 PM

 

But a learning institution run by a church is a different animal.

 

Well, it all depends upon whether you as an institution is welcoming to strangers. From the remarks being made concerning SWBTS, it as an institution that seems to have a fortress mentality. 

 

What I am saying is that isn't it ironic that a stranger might feel intimidated by their overt security while attempting to understand how the teaching of scripture is being learned; and isn't ironic that when as a missionary to the world, you take that same mentality to the streets and pulpits of the real world.

 

As different animals go, learning institutions affiliated or semi-affiliated to religion (TCU, SMU, Baylor) choose to have a balanced perspective about the level of security and being an open institution to the their respective city and neighborhoods.

 

I don't know.  You seem like you're looking for something that isn't there.  You're projecting something on the college.  Have you been to the campus yourself?


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#22 renamerusk

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 06:58 AM

.......  You seem like you're looking for something that isn't there.  You're projecting something on the college.  Have you been to the campus yourself?

 

    Yes; Yes; and No.

 

    As a person of non-religious affiliation, I would not likely find myself with a need to be on its campus.

 

    Sure I am projecting something on the college, mostly as it seems,  that SWBTS is projecting something towards the immediate neighborhood and therefore, the City at large. 

 

I am  always concerned  when any law officer or semi-law individual confronts and projects their suspicion (profiling) upon an individual without due cause.  Wasn't it somewhere stated in this topic that SWBTS has its suspicion because it believe that it had been the subject of an unflattering expose. In the case of a negative expose, mount a convincing rebuttal to explain any issues; do not stick your head in the sand as if you are an ostrich.

 

If an institution is incapable of taking criticism, then there may be some truth to the story.  How easily, we forget the Tragedy of The Waco Davidians.



#23 JBB

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 07:18 AM

How do you make the hyperbolic leap from, again, one person's anecdotal experience of being approached by security on private property to a heavily armed cult that promoted fanaticism, false teaching, pedophilia, the murder of law enforcement officers under the pretense of self-defense, and mass suicide?

#24 renamerusk

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 07:44 AM

How do you make the hyperbolic leap from, again, one person's anecdotal experience of being approached by security on private property to a heavily armed cult that promoted fanaticism, false teaching, pedophilia, the murder of law enforcement officers under the pretense of self-defense, and mass suicide?

 

 Lets face it, we have no idea if this is an isolated experience or if this is an experience this is repeated but unreported.  We simply do not know.  However, it is probable that the guard has approached strangers in the past; why else would he be there or would he do so?

 

There is a tendency for people who experience forms of confrontation to move on and keep quiet about it; so we will never know, unless and if, there is an event; then the public typically voices it post-event comments.

 

True, there may be nothing here; one hopes so.  I simply do not want people to forget that paranoia is the first step to unanticipated consequences.



#25 Doohickie

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 02:44 PM

 

.......  You seem like you're looking for something that isn't there.  You're projecting something on the college.  Have you been to the campus yourself?

 

    Yes; Yes; and No.

 

    As a person of non-religious affiliation, I would not likely find myself with a need to be on its campus.

 

    Sure I am projecting something on the college, mostly as it seems,  that SWBTS is projecting something towards the immediate neighborhood and therefore, the City at large. 

 

I am  always concerned  when any law officer or semi-law individual confronts and projects their suspicion (profiling) upon an individual without due cause.  Wasn't it somewhere stated in this topic that SWBTS has its suspicion because it believe that it had been the subject of an unflattering expose. In the case of a negative expose, mount a convincing rebuttal to explain any issues; do not stick your head in the sand as if you are an ostrich.

 

If an institution is incapable of taking criticism, then there may be some truth to the story.  How easily, we forget the Tragedy of The Waco Davidians.

 

 

I have no connection with the school other than I ride my bicycle across its campus.  All this talking about confrontation and suspicion is, in my experience, completely unwarranted.  I've had dozens, if not hundreds, of encounters with SWBTS security, usually just they pass me while I'm riding through.  Once or twice they've stopped to ask if I'm okay (like when I changed a flat late at night on campus), but I haven't gotten even a whiff of authoritarian overreach from them.

 

Full disclosure:  I'm Christian, not Baptist (and see Baptists in general as WAY too conservative for my taste), but to go so far as to compare them to the Davidians is just ridiculous.


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#26 renamerusk

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 10:41 PM

......but to go so far as to compare them to the Davidians is just ridiculous.

 

 Obviously, it can be read if so inclined from my comments an overstated equivalency to the Waco Atrocity; I get it. However, my comments are feeding upon the totality of comments being made in this topic which have tended to express a concern for something beyond religion.

 

From the beginning,  had the earliest paraphrasing that was attributed to the security person gone like this -

 

”we have a crime problem/concern”; then there would not be a need not to raise any questions about the show of security that is in place. 

 

But, the actual paraphrasing went along this line -”we didn’t like the way that we were/had been portrayed.”  Now that makes me ask this twin edged question: what is it that you did not like and why?

Equally, as curious, is the description of the neighborhood; literally being summed up as having an air of being undesirable which would somehow justify the proactive security stance.  

To me, religion is special because it is suppose to behave and do thing where and when other institutions do not.  Religion is not a public relations game that should concern itself with its self image; to do so is the epitome of idolatry. And even though I am not a person of religious doctrine, it at least is at its best when it is a tool of grace, empathy and institution that welcomes strangers.

 

As it is surely so that I know very little beyond hearsay about what actually occurred regards to this issue, I do sense that SWBT is concerned about how it is viewed.  Would that be a righteous concern to teach and to sermonize the faithful?

Just to make it clear, Merriam -Webster defines paranoia as -  a tendency on the part of an individual or group toward excessive or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of others.

I do find that SWBT(security) may have or appear to have given, at least on this one occasion  if it is to be believed,  a hint or possibly more of paranoia within its confines.  Is this an isolated incident; is this just one security guard perception; or, is this the tip of the iceberg, who knows?

 

What I do find that SWBT and Waco have in common, all be it an inexact portion, is the air of paranoia. I hope that unhealthy paranoia can be spotted and then alleviated.



 



#27 Doohickie

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 08:38 AM

Maybe you should just let it drop.


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#28 elpingüino

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 10:02 AM

The merits of security measures at religious institutions are a valid topic to discuss, but it deserves its own thread. Could a moderator please split off those posts so we can return to discussing the architecture and construction at Southwestern Seminary? Thanks.
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#29 renamerusk

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 02:44 PM

Maybe you should just let it drop.

 

It being settled; I would be for that.



#30 Doohickie

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 08:52 PM

Settled?  :rolleyes:


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#31 John T Roberts

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 10:13 PM

Well, if this is settled, I will leave it alone and we can go back on topic.







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