Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Are Enclosed Malls Dying?

Shopping Malls Retail Brick & Mortar Online Shopping

  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,672 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:36 AM

I probably should have started this thread last night when I had more time to think about what I was going to write and how I was going to pose this question.  Are enclosed shopping malls dying?  If so, will there be any left in Tarrant County?  Will there be any left on the Dallas side of things?  What will replace them?  Is the "Lifestyle Center" the answer?  Will brick and mortar stores go away all together?  Will online shopping be the only way to purchase goods that were found in a mall?  When the malls die, how would you redevelop the property? I also want to challenge everyone to visit all of the enclosed malls in Tarrant County to really give an experienced answer.  I think visiting these malls on a weekend would be the best time to do it.  However, I do realize that everyone has busy schedules.  Please post your comments here.



#2 Doohickie

Doohickie

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,335 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:76123

Posted 18 August 2016 - 09:50 AM

Reference material:  This site documents three Dead Malls in Tarrant County.


My blog: Doohickie

#3 Doohickie

Doohickie

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,335 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:76123

Posted 18 August 2016 - 11:22 AM

My take is this:  Malls are changing.  They will need to evolve in the age of online buying, but there is value in being able to see merchandise before buying it.  Clothes sizing, quality assessment, being able to pick things up and turn them over in your hands, etc., are all provide value.  The trick will become how to get customers to pay for that value.

 

Some malls will go out of business for sure.  Others will reinvent themselves along the lines that have been mentioned for Ridgmar Mall- a mix of housing with retail targeted to support the people that live there.  It almost seems fitting that the generation that grew up with the shopping mall will retire into them.  There are clearly advantages to living in a "closed environment," especially if you're old/infirm, but still want to maintain some level of activity.  I can see many malls converted into senior housing with pharmacies, doctors offices, beauty parlors and restaurants contained under the same roof.  Heck, put the seniors on a meal plan like college students; they can eat at Chili's or Applebees or whatever other restaurants that are in the mall.  The restaurants may be enticed if there's a residential population right in the mall.

 

I think there will be other malls that survive just as they are.  Northeast Mall and Hulen Mall have a shot at that.

 

Developers who successfully maintain malls will be copied.  Those who repurpose them successfully will also be copied.  And yeah, some malls will be razed and redevloped from the ground up.


My blog: Doohickie

#4 Jeriat

Jeriat

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,006 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SWFW

Posted 18 August 2016 - 03:00 PM

 

I see Ridgmar joining that list within then next decade...


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#5 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,324 posts
  • Location:Bedford

Posted 18 August 2016 - 03:32 PM

I'm still dumbfounded as to why anyone would say that. It was left for dead when the base closed the first time and it bounced back. It was left for dead before the Rave/Old Navy renovation and it bounced back. It sits in the middle of a booming retail pocket and is a 10 minute drive from an area that people seem to think is going to explode with residential growth in the next 5 years. I'm betting on another bounce back. Granted, it may look a little different, but it won't go away.

Edit: Reading through that after I wrote, yes, I can see why Ridgmar looks dead. Just pointing out that it's looked that way more than once and didn't die.

#6 Doohickie

Doohickie

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,335 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:76123

Posted 18 August 2016 - 06:27 PM

Just pointing out that it's looked that way more than once and didn't die.

 

ZOMBIE MALL.


My blog: Doohickie

#7 johnfwd

johnfwd

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,849 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:southwest
  • Interests:Running, bicycling, bowling, nightclub life, science, technology.

Posted 19 August 2016 - 06:02 AM

This Los Angeles-based article in Fort Worth Business was published about a month ago.  The crux is that future shopping malls may host medical clinics.  I'm not sure this is really a new development in that medical clinics have popped up in shopping centers in Fort Worth and other cities across the country.  Anyone know if our local malls have any medical clinics?

 

Is the health care industry hitching its horse to a dry trough, or do they believe there's a market for patients inside a mall? 

 

http://www.fortworth...1bc98bc93d.html



#8 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,981 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tarrant

Posted 19 August 2016 - 06:19 AM

Re: Dead Malls in Tarrant County - Did Tandy count or was it not exactly considered a mall? Seems like it's urban setting made it fairly different from things like Six Flags Mall,



#9 Doohickie

Doohickie

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,335 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:76123

Posted 19 August 2016 - 07:07 AM

This Los Angeles-based article in Fort Worth Business was published about a month ago.  The crux is that future shopping malls may host medical clinics.  I'm not sure this is really a new development in that medical clinics have popped up in shopping centers in Fort Worth and other cities across the country.  Anyone know if our local malls have any medical clinics?

 

Is the health care industry hitching its horse to a dry trough, or do they believe there's a market for patients inside a mall? 

 

http://www.fortworth...1bc98bc93d.html

 

Appletree Business Park in my hometown of Cheektowaga, NY, (an aging first ring suburb of Buffalo) is a former mall.  Interesting mix of tenants including medical, utilities, insurance, daycare, and a few retail shops.

 

The site never really established itself as a mall (not big enough to compete with another nearby mall) and was transformed into an office park a long time ago (20-30 years).

 

Re: Dead Malls in Tarrant County - Did Tandy count or was it not exactly considered a mall? Seems like it's urban setting made it fairly different from things like Six Flags Mall,

 

No anchors, so not really a mall in my mind.


My blog: Doohickie

#10 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,981 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tarrant

Posted 19 August 2016 - 07:15 AM

That makes sense. 


Re: Medical and malls, it's interesting that the first phase of Clearfork is a hospital. Well planned perhaps?



#11 eastfwther

eastfwther

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 136 posts

Posted 19 August 2016 - 08:51 AM

 

This Los Angeles-based article in Fort Worth Business was published about a month ago.  The crux is that future shopping malls may host medical clinics.  I'm not sure this is really a new development in that medical clinics have popped up in shopping centers in Fort Worth and other cities across the country.  Anyone know if our local malls have any medical clinics?

 

Is the health care industry hitching its horse to a dry trough, or do they believe there's a market for patients inside a mall? 

 

http://www.fortworth...1bc98bc93d.html

 

Appletree Business Park in my hometown of Cheektowaga, NY, (an aging first ring suburb of Buffalo) is a former mall.  Interesting mix of tenants including medical, utilities, insurance, daycare, and a few retail shops.

 

The site never really established itself as a mall (not big enough to compete with another nearby mall) and was transformed into an office park a long time ago (20-30 years).

 

Re: Dead Malls in Tarrant County - Did Tandy count or was it not exactly considered a mall? Seems like it's urban setting made it fairly different from things like Six Flags Mall,

 

No anchors, so not really a mall in my mind.

 

I was going to say the same thing.  If you take out the stores and add mostly medical facilities and office space, it's not really a mall any longer.



#12 eastfwther

eastfwther

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 136 posts

Posted 19 August 2016 - 08:56 AM

I'm still dumbfounded as to why anyone would say that. It was left for dead when the base closed the first time and it bounced back. It was left for dead before the Rave/Old Navy renovation and it bounced back. It sits in the middle of a booming retail pocket and is a 10 minute drive from an area that people seem to think is going to explode with residential growth in the next 5 years. I'm betting on another bounce back. Granted, it may look a little different, but it won't go away.

Edit: Reading through that after I wrote, yes, I can see why Ridgmar looks dead. Just pointing out that it's looked that way more than once and didn't die.

Repeatedly dying and bouncing back, if anything, makes this mall sound unstable. Eventually, you're not going to bounce back.  The sad thing about Ridgmar is that it has started to lose anchors.  That's always death for a mall.



#13 Doohickie

Doohickie

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,335 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:76123

Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:08 AM

The sad thing about Ridgmar is that it has started to lose anchors.  That's always death for a mall.


Only if they stay empty. There's always some level of turnover, like when Wards left Hulen and was replaced by Sears.


My blog: Doohickie

#14 eastfwther

eastfwther

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 136 posts

Posted 19 August 2016 - 12:41 PM

 

The sad thing about Ridgmar is that it has started to lose anchors.  That's always death for a mall.


Only if they stay empty. There's always some level of turnover, like when Wards left Hulen and was replaced by Sears.

 

Yep, they replaced a dead retailer with a dying one.



#15 jefffwd

jefffwd

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,486 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 20 August 2016 - 12:09 PM

Look at the Galleria in Dallas...  At one time they had three anchors (macy*s, Marshall Field and Saks).  Now look what they are left with a macy*s, belk (which is basically a three story Kohl's with name brand cosmetics and cologne) and the last store is an Old Navy and Gap. 



#16 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,672 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 20 August 2016 - 04:34 PM

Jefffwd, Nordstrom opened in the Galleria in 1996 and I think they are still open.  Still, I can see your point in that the anchors of the Galleria are not as high end as they were in earlier days at the mall.



#17 jefffwd

jefffwd

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,486 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 20 August 2016 - 11:49 PM

You are correct sir...  I totally forgot about Nordstrom.  I wonder if Dallas Midtown will actually come to fruition as imagined...  Replacing what's left of Valley View seems like a good idea but I wonder if the funding will actually come through?  Sadly, I have a feeling that Ridgmar is going to end up going the way of Prestonwood. 



#18 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,672 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 24 August 2016 - 08:36 PM

There was a shooting tonight at the Parks Mall in Arlington.



#19 hannerhan

hannerhan

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 667 posts
  • Location:Ft Worth

Posted 25 August 2016 - 10:17 AM

More fascinating to me than the dying malls (which I believe will eventually be most of them) is the few successful malls that have bucked the trend.  Northpark (Dallas) and The Galleria (Houston) are the two notable Texas examples.  Clearly there is room in these major cities for ONE premier mall, and these two have locked up that spot in their respective cities.  It's impossible to overstate the importance of the vision that the family who owns Northpark has executed over the decades.  From the art to the architecture to the tenants which they are constantly rotating, you just have to sit back and admire how brilliant they have been.



#20 johnfwd

johnfwd

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,849 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:southwest
  • Interests:Running, bicycling, bowling, nightclub life, science, technology.

Posted 26 August 2016 - 03:53 AM

Interesting highlight in Fort Worth Business on J.C. Penny stores emerging as a survivor in malls as Sears and Macy's leave. To the victor go the spoils, if the spoils are still worth having. 

 

http://www.fortworth...e3f11400cc.html







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Shopping, Malls, Retail, Brick & Mortar, Online Shopping

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users