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Residence Inn at "Houston and 8th"

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#51 renamerusk

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 09:34 PM

I'm not saying at all that it's a BAD plan. I personally think it'should weird to have a tower that tall in that space.

 

 I think it would be weirder to have a building prevented from developing properly in that space and that would then come with a greater chance for being unsuccessful.



#52 JBB

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 10:22 PM

It's not the density I'm focused on, here. It's the height... that's it.


There's a 16 story building on the same block and a 20 story building across the street. What's weird about the height?

#53 renamerusk

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 06:59 AM

 

 

I have speculated that the garage can be used by other nearby businesses.  If the proposed hotel is completed, how many floors of the garage would it need/reserve for its guest?

 

 

the main concern I see with this building is not the location, which I actually like because it creates density, but instead the parking situation. Is this building gong to demand yet another parking garage in this area of downtown, which I feel has too many to begin with.

 

 Shortly after announcing the plans for the Landmark Block, XTO sold the project to Houston-based Woodbranch Management, a parking and real estate company.  As it turns out, the XTO project seems to be more a real estate transaction than a parking benefit to its downtown employees.  XTO will likely use a fraction of the Cowtown Plaza Garage with the remaining being contracted and used by the general public by WM. 

 

A 200-suite hotel would and could lease 200 spaces within the garage for valet parking.  The best that I can determine is that the parking requirements to hotel suite ratio is 1:1

 

As to your concerns RRJ71,  read post #47.  It lays out a plausible explanation for the pieces that have already been likely to have taken place or now taking place.



#54 JBB

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 07:19 AM

From the article you linked to above:

 

"The new garage will still be for its employees only, but XTO will lease the space from Woodbranch"

 

It's been pretty clear from the beginning that they don't have any intention to make any of these spaces available to the public.



#55 renamerusk

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 07:52 AM

From the article you linked to above:

 

"The new garage will still be for its employees only, but XTO will lease the space from Woodbranch"

 

It's been pretty clear from the beginning that they don't have any intention to make any of these spaces available to the public.

 

Nothing is etched in stone.  Not even the number of XTO employees; and thus the fixed need for employee parking is fluid. (1) Why didn't XTO simply build the garage for own needs rather than selling to then lease space?

 

If the proposed hotel is going forward without structured parking included, then it must have some alternative parking plan.  WM will be the ideal solution should 200 spaces need to be permanently leased. Otherwise, this proposed hotel is dubious.

 

(2) Where then lies the solution, if not with WM?



#56 Austin55

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 08:04 AM

What about the garage adjacent to the Omni? I've read it only hits full capacity a few days a year, the city could make some spare change leasing out some of it?

This hotel is also proposed 4 1/2 blocks from the ITC and 1 block from convention. I wonder how many convention goers will be arriving by TexRail (from airport) and simply not using a car? Probably not enough to support an entire hotel, but maybe enough to not need a 1 to 1 ratio of parking space per room.

It will be interesting to learn more about this

#57 JBB

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 08:04 AM

There are other garages and surface lots nearby.  I assume there's any number of tax and accounting reasons why it would be beneficial to sell the garage and lease back the space.  It happens all of the time with commercial real estate.  I don't get why it's so hard to take XTO's word at face value on this.  What's their benefit in lying about that?



#58 renamerusk

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 12:27 PM

What about the garage adjacent to the Omni? I've read it only hits full capacity a few days a year, the city could make some spare change leasing out some of it?....This hotel is also proposed 4 1/2 blocks from the ITC and 1 block from convention. I wonder how many convention goers will be arriving by TexRail (from airport) and simply not using a car? Probably not enough to support an entire hotel, but maybe enough to not need a 1 to 1 ratio of parking space per room.....

 

 

There are other garages and surface lots nearby.  I assume there's any number of tax and accounting reasons why it would be beneficial to sell the garage and lease back the space.  It happens all of the time with commercial real estate.  I don't get why it's so hard to take XTO's word at face value on this.  What's their benefit in lying about that?

 

As earlier suggested, it is highly doubtful that the developer has not thought through the parking needs of the hotel and arriving at the conclusion that the developer would not be proceeding without a strategy in place.  

 

The 1:1 ratio is more essential in the auto-centric, underdeveloped transit network that characterizes Texas.  The convention goers, as well as everyday users of the hotel will need rental cars to access the local tourist and business destinations.  TexRail will be used, but many of Fort Worth’s convention tend to be state & regional gatherings that draw conventioneers who originate within a reasonable driving distance.

 

So what explains what XTO has done?

Suppose this scenario: “you own a vacant lot..you improve it by building a home on it.. you then sell the home before it is completed, just to lease it from the buyer so that you can provide your brother (employee) free housing (parking)”.  You do this for tax purposes while foregoing income. Does this explains what XTO is doing?

or

Now suppose this scenario: XTO takes that improved lot and sell it for a profit...XTO and the buyer agrees to set aside a predetermined spaces for your employees, even though XTO does not specify which of its employees get free parking (is all or is it a portion)  and freeing up the remaining spaces so that the buyer can lease the remaining spaces to anyone willing to pay for it 24/7...you say parking for XTO employees which you want to be read as “everyone”  so that none of your employees will have an inkling of when there is a potential a down sizing of personnel. Even when personnel is reduced, both XTO and WM continue to have a revenue stream from the garage.  Does this possibly explains what XTO is doing?

WM must see this project as a rich vein of revenue stream beyond XTO; otherwise, why purchase just to be a leasing agent.  WM will operate this project 24/7; a hotel is a 24/7 business.  Downtown is a 24/7 destination; the hotel is a downtown destination.

The initial rendering of this hotel is glaringly conspicuous for the  lack of two features: a large meeting space and a parking garage.   I suggest that the meeting space will be the new convention center and that the parking will be provided by leasing some of the current (Cowtown Parking Plaza) space.



 



#59 Jeriat

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 01:55 PM

 

It's not the density I'm focused on, here. It's the height... that's it.


There's a 16 story building on the same block and a 20 story building across the street. What's weird about the height?

 

 

Don't worry about it. I'm just looking at it a different way, I guess. 


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#60 johnfwd

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 01:58 PM

Downtowns almost everywhere have tall buildings.  When property owners don't have enough space to build out, they build up.  Economies of scale.  Enough said.



#61 youngalum

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 02:11 PM

It is dang wonder anything gets built in this city with people all over the place saying don't block this view or dumb height restrictions and threatening lawsuits.

 

Small town thinking gets small town results!



#62 John T Roberts

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 03:05 PM

I don't have a problem with the building's height.  Many cities have tall buildings with small floor plates.  I think this will add to the skyline.  It will be rather unique to have a 23 story building at this location.  Based on other hotels, it will probably be around 275 feet tall.  The only two things that concern me is the loss of a early 20th Century commercial building (although radically altered) and the parking issue, which we have beaten to death in the discussions.  I'm pretty sure that a parking deal has been worked out with a garage somewhere in downtown, already. 



#63 rriojas71

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 03:15 PM

I'm pretty sure that a parking deal has been worked out with a garage somewhere in downtown, already.


So is this building going to actually happen or is it still just a proposal?

#64 John T Roberts

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 03:50 PM

It is still just a proposal.  It has to be approved by the Downtown Design Review Board before they can be granted a building permit.



#65 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 05:12 PM

I'm disappointed this is replacing a good building, but I'm happy for the much-needed infill this project would bring to our skyline.

 

That said, almost a year after the rendering was released, I'm still not happy with how the windows shift a little each floor.

 

--------------------------------

 

Unlike a few other people, I don't think a 23-story building here is unreasonable at all.


- Dylan


#66 Jeriat

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 05:17 PM

I take it that some of you are thinking I don't want this tower to be built at all...?


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#67 jefffwd

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 06:36 PM

Just build it and quit thinking small.  The addition of that building and the Frost Tower will make a nice addition to the skyline.  I also think that the proposed hotel in the cultual district should be left at 12 stories.  Just my opinion.



#68 renamerusk

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 07:04 PM

 

I'm pretty sure that a parking deal has been worked out with a garage somewhere in downtown, already.


So is this building going to actually happen or is it still just a proposal?

 

 

 

It is still just a proposal.  It has to be approved by the Downtown Design Review Board before they can be granted a building permit.

 

 (1) Should approval by the DDRB on a matter like this be fairly routine? After all,  hotesl are what downtown and the convention center is counting on to house a growing convention business.

 

(2) Though it is a proposal, isn't it the "fish" that the City set it's bait to catch; and only awaits the completion of the Will Rogers Arena when the City has promised turn its focus on a new, expanded convention center?



#69 JBB

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 08:34 PM

I take it that some of you are thinking I don't want this tower to be built at all...?

 

I don't think that and didn't mean to make it seem like that.



#70 Jeriat

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 09:16 PM

I take it that some of you are thinking I don't want this tower to be built at all...?


 
I don't think that and didn't mean to make it seem like that.

It's fine.

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#71 cjyoung

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 02:14 PM

It is dang wonder anything gets built in this city with people all over the place saying don't block this view or dumb height restrictions and threatening lawsuits.

 

Small town thinking gets small town results!

I'm with you there. 

 

I think we are moving slowly but surely.



#72 Urbndwlr

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:43 PM

 

It is dang wonder anything gets built in this city with people all over the place saying don't block this view or dumb height restrictions and threatening lawsuits.

 

Small town thinking gets small town results!

I'm with you there. 

 

I think we are moving slowly but surely.

I am only aware of a few instances (two recent) where there is public outcry over scale of proposed buildings. 

I don't know if that hotel is moving forward but do wish that they would have selected a surface parking site rather than a 100 year old building to demolish. While the building does not look its best right now, Downtown Fort Worth is filled with examples of how older buildings can be brought back to their former glory and really add to our urban fabric.  Many cities have a real challenge of delicate balance of balancing growth and preservation, but Fort Worth has a ton of vacant sites used as surface parking so its a shame to see that proposed site for that hotel.  I'm sure the proximity to the Convention Center and the core of Downtown is the reason for that site selection. 



#73 John T Roberts

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:19 PM

Renamerusk, I'm sorry that I didn't answer your questions a few days ago, but it must have slipped my mind.

 

#1.  Yes, approval by the DDRB should be fairly routine in this case.  They may suggest some slight changes, but I'm betting that it will be approved.

 

#2.  I agree.



#74 Austin55

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:07 PM

Hers's another rendering. The building is 3 floors taller in this one than the last, and has some extra height on the top floor. It is 25 floors in this render. Also shown is a small night time view with the glass section at the top being illuminated. 

ZBnimom.jpg



#75 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 09:30 PM

Nice to see the height extended a little, but I'm still driven crazy by the windows that don't align vertically. Ugh.


- Dylan


#76 rriojas71

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 10:26 PM

I'm glad to hear this is getting taller. I like the nighttime rendering a lot. The windows not aligning is a bit strange and I can see why you don't like it PAS.... however I do think it adds something visually different to the building... not sure if that is a good or bad thing, lol.

I guess we'll have to see what it looks like in person.

#77 johnfwd

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:10 AM

I'm glad to hear this is getting taller. I like the nighttime rendering a lot. The windows not aligning is a bit strange and I can see why you don't like it PAS.... however I do think it adds something visually different to the building... not sure if that is a good or bad thing, lol.

I guess we'll have to see what it looks like in person.

 

This is an impressive project, judging by the artist's drawing.  Not sure what you mean by the non alignment of the windows.  I don't see it.

 

What is really remarkable is that two hospitality-related property owners (Marriott and Hilton). separated by a single city block on Houston Street, are planning to build high-rise hotels.  This isn't like Fort Worth at all!   



#78 John T Roberts

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:44 AM

Johnfwd, the jambs of the windows do not align vertically.

 

Your second comment is also interesting in that the lower floors of the Residence Inn will see the backside of the Canopy by Hilton.  The only part of the hotel that will have great views will be the rooftop pool, or whatever is behind the two story glass section at the very top of the building.  You know, the release of the rendering of the Canopy by Hilton might be the reason the height of the hotel was raised.



#79 rriojas71

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:31 AM

I'm glad to hear this is getting taller. I like the nighttime rendering a lot. The windows not aligning is a bit strange and I can see why you don't like it PAS.... however I do think it adds something visually different to the building... not sure if that is a good or bad thing, lol.
I guess we'll have to see what it looks like in person.

 
This is an impressive project, judging by the artist's drawing.  Not sure what you mean by the non alignment of the windows.  I don't see it.
 
What is really remarkable is that two hospitality-related property owners (Marriott and Hilton). separated by a single city block on Houston Street, are planning to build high-rise hotels.  This isn't like Fort Worth at all!

I really really like this project, but I was just commenting on the windows from People Are Strange's post. If you look at the gray panels between the windows the are not in alignment and each floor looks different without any rhyme or reason. It's not a major concern to me, but I do see what he is talking about.

#80 Austin55

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:38 AM

I dont know if there is a technical term for it, but the mismatching windows look is a popular trend recently. Strikes me as very northern European. 



#81 Jeriat

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 12:09 PM

I dont know if there is a technical term for it, but the mismatching windows look is a popular trend recently. Strikes me as very northern European. 

 

Yeah. Very Holland-ish.


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#82 rriojas71

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 01:44 PM

Would also look good in Oslo or Copenhagen. :D

Also, after looking more at the nighttime rendering I think that is where the off-centered look is what the designer was striving for. I am really digging the lighting.

#83 Now in Denton

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:16 PM

Been burned too many times by buildings not built up to original renderings. And the typical Fort Worth way of doing things  "after further studies the extra floors were not needed"  I hope I am wrong.



#84 Austin55

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:25 PM

Been burned too many times by buildings not built up to original renderings. And the typical Fort Worth way of doing things  "after further studies the extra floors were not needed"  I hope I am wrong.



At least Trinity Terrace actually gained floors after the recession.

#85 renamerusk

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 06:03 PM

Cowtown Plaza will be XTO only.

 

 

 I'm still all in on the "something more" conspiracy when it comes to the XTO garage; believing that there may have already been some negotiation between XTO and Iconlodging, Inc. about sharing the garage.  XTO could earn some additional secured leasing terms for its space.

 

 

 

I have been tipped off with some information on this project.  The location is correct.  This Residence Inn is scheduled to be built on the northeast corner of Houston & 8th.  The site is currently occupied by Century Plaza, a poorly remodeled 1903 early Fort Worth building.  It's former name was the Reynolds Cattle Company Building.  I checked the TAD website and this property was bought by a lodging developer back in June of 2015.  I have seen a rendering of the building and it looks like it will be something like 22 stories.  Go to this link to see the rendering: http://www.iconlodging.com

 

Here's a rendering of the Residence Inn from the Icon Lodging homepage. Apologies that the image is so large. If someone can tell me how to adjust the image size within a post, I'm all ears.

 

Downtown-Fort-Worthzoom.jpg

 

 

 

"The new garage will still be for its employees only, but XTO will lease the space from Woodbranch"....It's been pretty clear from the beginning that they don't have any intention to make any of these spaces available to the public.

 

 

Nothing is etched in stone.  Not even the number of XTO employees; and thus the fixed need for employee parking is fluid. (1) Why didn't XTO simply build the garage for its own needs rather than selling and to then lease space?

 

If the proposed hotel is going forward without structured parking included, then it must have some alternative parking plan.  WM will be the ideal solution should 200 spaces need to be permanently leased. Otherwise, this proposed hotel is dubious.

 

(2) Where then lies the solution, if not with WM?

 

 

 

There are other garages and surface lots nearby.  I assume there's any number of tax and accounting reasons why it would be beneficial to sell the garage and lease back the space.  It happens all of the time with commercial real estate.  I don't get why it's so hard to take XTO's word at face value on this.  What's their benefit in lying about that?

 

Lets just say that I am having a "clicker storm".  I have a love/hate relationship with XTO now ExxonMobil.  Our savior maybe Mr. Simpson who may retake (purchase) his former properties.  I trust him.

 

The way has now been cleared for a timely groundbreaking of Residence Inn; ready-made parking in place.



#86 Austin55

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 10:55 PM

New renderings on this site I have stumbled across. It shows a completely different design from prior renderings. For all I know, these could be just concepts or old, but here they are. 

 

M9pR45U.jpg

 

tkmr1BB.jpg



#87 Jeriat

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 11:50 PM

Feels like that's not even the same firm... (or is it?)


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#88 rriojas71

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 01:14 AM

I'm not a fan... I like the prior rendering but I'm not committed to it either. I don't think this looks like a 25 story building so I am hoping that this was just an initial concept.

#89 Austin55

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 09:20 AM

Evidently, this was just a concept. Carry on.



#90 John T Roberts

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 07:52 AM

Bisnow article on the DFW Hotel Market.  A little more than half way down, the article discusses the two downtown hotels proposed where current buildings are located.

 

https://www.bisnow.c...albachdietz.com



#91 johnfwd

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 08:20 AM

I read the Bisnow article (Post#90).  But it doesn't mention the proposed Residence Inn by name.  I do agree with one statement made in the interview with Binford, quoting him that the FW city promoters would prefer "one larger than a few smaller hotels" downtown for hospitality marketing purposes.  Ergo, a 25-story hotel makes good marketing sense (aside from the fact that a tower-sized structure on this narrow tract is probably more cost-efficient).



#92 John T Roberts

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 08:34 AM

I think Binford was referring to the preference of building another Convention Center Hotel.  It concentrates all of the guests in one location, and if it is on the Convention Center property, then the facilities can be shared, with some functions in the hotel and others in the center.  The article doesn't mention the Residence Inn by name, but it's pretty clear to me that he is talking about the Residence Inn and the Canopy by Hilton, both located on Houston Street and both with buildings currently on the sites.  Also, these properties do not indicate where the parking is actually located.

 

I thought this would be as good of a place as any to link to the story.



#93 Austin55

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 12:06 PM

Chatting with employees at Four Star. Said everyone supposed to be out of Century Plaza by year end, building will be torn down.

#94 John T Roberts

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:13 PM

The news doesn't surprise me.  However, it is kind of sad to see one of our oldest multi-story steel-framed buildings being demolished. 



#95 johnfwd

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 07:15 AM

Trivia question:  To be torn down by bulldozer piecemeal fashion (like the old St. Joseph Hospital and the former United Way/bus station building) or a spectacular implosion?  Anyone know why a demolisher chooses to do one way rather another?



#96 John T Roberts

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 07:59 AM

It will probably be demolished piecemeal.  Implosion requires an area to drop the building, as they don't fall straight down.  There is no vacant area next to this one to drop it.  Also, the Oncor Building is anywhere from one inch to 3 feet away.  Del Frisco's is an alley width away.  There would be too much damage to those adjacent buildings for an implosion to be practical.  My guess is that the demolition contractor will pay to close off 8th Street and use that to set up his equipment.  Then the building could be knocked down from the south to the north, with care taken in demolishing the north wall of the building to protect the Oncor Building from damage. 

 

As for why implosion is chosen over conventional methods of demolition, the site, the height, time, and budget all play a role in the determination.



#97 renamerusk

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 07:31 PM

You will need to update the banner soon. Frost will have a bit of time in the limelight before 900 Commerce starts to rise......

 

or even before with the start of Houston@ 8th; its sounding a lot as though the ground work will begin soon after December 2017. :)

 

Chatting with employees at Four Star. Said everyone supposed to be out of Century Plaza by year end, building will be torn down.



#98 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:02 PM

This building looks uglier and uglier every time I look at the rendering. It's going to be an eyesore on our skyline.


- Dylan


#99 rriojas71

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 10:12 AM

Well it's in the middle of three of the ugliest buildings downtown (Burnett Plaza, AT&T building & Oncor Building) so hopefully it will just blend it.

I don't hate the building, but I wish it had a little more personality than just a standard boxy design.

#100 renamerusk

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 10:27 AM

The renderings so far of RI are fine in my opinion and I don't see where its an unattractive building at all.  Juxtapose with the buildings within its immediate surroundings, it fits it well and is much better than would be a glass walled building.

 

I'm thrilled that something is being built especially since Fort Worth has been lagging in development of this kind.

 

Its comes down to personal taste.







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