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Residence Inn at "Houston and 8th"

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#1 Austin55

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 03:11 PM

 
 

 

 

Holy cow there's lots of news there but it's all very vague. There's several projects mentioned there.

Where is there available land space for a Canopy by Hilton "near the Convention Center"?

 

 

 

Ofcourse, the W.T. Waggoner building is currently at 8th and Houston, and the remainder of the land on that block is XTO owned and I doubt they'd sell. Perhaps someone confused Houston with Commerce? Could share a block with Winfield Place? Regardless, another hotel is on it's way and the downtown hotel market is booming. 

 



#2 renamerusk

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 09:26 AM

Here's a thought -

 

XTO may be in the preliminary stage of the re-purposing of some of its Downtown holdings to a mix of housing and hospitality use, thus a plausible explanation for building the 800-space garage. 

 

Very telling is the significant downsizing of one of XTO's peers, Devon Energy (OKC) who is shedding staff at its 1.2m sf hdqrts tower. 

 

The W.T. Waggoner Building and its entire block makes for an ideal location for both a conversion to housing and a multi-story inn that is just a few steps away from the CC; and probably places XTO in circumstances that, on paper, look better than its peers.



#3 RD Milhollin

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 02:48 PM

I would think off the top of my head that a new "wraparound" hotel facility on that block would be less expensive, all things considered, especially for a residence (1 week + stay) type facility. XTO may even be having serious second thoughts about the despised parking garage given the energy market right now.



#4 Mr_Brightside526

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 03:49 PM

I would think off the top of my head that a new "wraparound" hotel facility on that block would be less expensive, all things considered, especially for a residence (1 week + stay) type facility. XTO may even be having serious second thoughts about the despised parking garage given the energy market right now.

 

Why doesn't someone just build a couple more floors of parking, then top it with a hotel and a glass facade! Presto!



#5 John T Roberts

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 07:28 PM

I have been tipped off with some information on this project.  The location is correct.  This Residence Inn is scheduled to be built on the northeast corner of Houston & 8th.  The site is currently occupied by Century Plaza, a poorly remodeled 1903 early Fort Worth building.  It's former name was the Reynolds Cattle Company Building.  I checked the TAD website and this property was bought by a lodging developer back in June of 2015.  I have seen a rendering of the building and it looks like it will be something like 22 stories.  Go to this link to see the rendering: http://www.iconlodging.com

 

Here's a current photo of the building:

centuryplaza.jpg

 

Now, here's an old photo showing how the building once looked from the Jack White Collection:

centurylife.jpg



#6 Austin55

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 09:00 PM

It's so crazy how Fort Worth's historic buildings are worth so much less to developers than an empty surface lot (The Hampton which replaced Greyhound, the Park Central getting made over, etc) that its easier/more affordable to tear down and rebuild even in limited space than it is to just build on one of the dozens of 200x200 empty lots near the CC. 

 

Ignoring the loss of Century Plaza, thats an awesome building, decent design, but a ton of versatility for that part of town. Could be about the same height as the U/C River Tower. One question though- Where's the garage? Surely no developer would be comfortable building in Fort Worth without a garage... (To bad XTO did'nt build in extra space...)



#7 renamerusk

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 09:11 PM

... Where's the garage? Surely no developer would be comfortable building in Fort Worth without a garage... (To bad XTO did'nt build in extra space...)

 

 Funny, I was wondering that too.  Guessing that there will be below ground parking; below ground parking is in use at the Hilton, correct?



#8 John T Roberts

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 09:18 PM

Austin, that is why I am a big proponent for either individual local historic designations or local historic districts.  Very few of our downtown "historic" buildings are legally protected against demolition. 

 

I was also wondering about the parking, but maybe they have worked out a deal with a nearby garage.  I doubt there would be parking on the site because the lot is too small.  There is parking below General Worth Square, across 8th Street from the Hilton Hotel.  There is also an underground connection between the two.



#9 JBB

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 09:24 PM

Not bad looking at all.  Am I losing my mind?  Is the Fairfield Inn in DT Fort Worth listed on their website another new hotel?



#10 Austin55

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 09:26 PM

Not bad looking at all.  Am I losing my mind?  Is the Fairfield Inn in DT Fort Worth listed on their website another new hotel?

 

The Fairfield proposal is just the existing Park Central under a new facade.



#11 Jeriat

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 01:20 PM

Took the liberty of looking at something... 

 

26480135841_19f48a03a9_b.jpg

I think this would work better. 

 

And I didn't realize just how skinny the building would be. 


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#12 RD Milhollin

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 02:19 PM

Why the hell would a developer need to tear down a substantial building in downtown Fort Worth to put up another? If there is an overabundance of any resource there it is surface parking lots. There is something wrong here. With those windows I could see some great loft apartments or condos... or a small hotel. 



#13 Austin55

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 04:11 PM

Parking is more valuable than history unfortunately.

#14 renamerusk

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 06:56 PM

Took the liberty of looking at something... 

 

26480135841_19f48a03a9_b.jpg

I think this would work better. 

 

And I didn't realize just how skinny the building would be. 

 

Why the need to move it? 

 

This 1/4 Block Site necessitated that the project had to be "mid-rise" vertical to be economically functional.

 

Geez, I am psyched just to see something more than 5 story going up in downtown. Cross fingers as there are other 1/4 block sites reasonably priced and that will be determinant for making the land cost:return investment ratio profitable.  Perhaps more 20+ story projects with small footprints.  Jetta/Frost Tower comes immediately to mind.



#15 John T Roberts

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 08:05 PM

RD, there is no incentive to keep the building.  It does not have any historic designations.  One could even argue that the building has lost its historic character by the removal of all of the ornamentation and the stucco covering of the brick.  However, one could also argue that the remodel is historic now.  But, there is even a catch to this.  If you look at the 1950 photograph, you can see that the base was significantly different, and it was altered after that time. 



#16 Jeriat

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 10:07 PM

 

Why does it need to move?

 

Well I just did that from the suggestions of building over one of the many open lots available instead of demolishing Century Plaza.

I think it would be a better option, but it's not my money...


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8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#17 renamerusk

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 10:29 PM

....There is parking below General Worth Square, across 8th Street from the Hilton Hotel.  There is also an underground connection between the two.

 

  How much underground parking exists for the Hilton Hotel/General Worth Square?

 

  Could 8th Street be closed and purposed into additional parking underground to connect with the existing structure?



#18 rriojas71

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 11:49 AM

Well once "Cowtown Plaza".... Uh hmmm... Gets built then there should be significant parking near this corner.

#19 johnfwd

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:50 PM

Well once "Cowtown Plaza".... Uh hmmm... Gets built then there should be significant parking near this corner.

"Cowtown Place"...but no matter, a parking garage by any other name.  Regarding the planned Residence Inn by Marriott at 8th and Houston, the existing structure is attached to the building directly north.  Obviously, demolition at this locale will be a clean cut.

Also, It is such a narrow lot that this Marriott hotel had to be significantly taller.



#20 Austin55

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 01:18 PM

Cowtown Plaza will be XTO only.

#21 renamerusk

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 05:11 PM

Cowtown Plaza will be XTO only.

 

 I'm still all in on the "something more" conspiracy when it comes to the XTO garage; believing that there may have already been some negotiation between XTO and Iconlodging, Inc. about sharing the garage.  XTO could earn some additional secured leasing terms for its space.



#22 gdvanc

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 09:22 AM

Regarding building on available surface parking lots vs. tearing down an existing building: are there any surface lots for sale?

 

I've wondered about the profitability of those lots. It took a long time for Bass to acquire that last little parking lot to build the plaza; was that because of cash flow to the owners or spite? A company that owns a lot for the use of its employees may not be willing to sell for a reasonable price - or at all. As for lots owned by other companies for parking revenues: how profitable are these? It may just be more difficult to acquire them compared to a lot with an old building with expensive maintenance costs if that building has become increasingly unprofitable.

 

If I can win the Power Ball a couple of times, I'll let you know which lots are for sale.



#23 JBB

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 11:05 AM

I think there's no doubt that the lots are profitable. They don't sit empty during business hours. There's a steady stream of income and expenses for maintaining a surface lot are minimal, especially if landscaping isn't involved. I think at this point the market is making those lots too pricey for developers. A tangential benefit of the XTO garage is that getting their employees out of the private surface lots may give the owners some incentive to sell or bring down their price.

#24 youngalum

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 03:33 PM

I think the surface lot that it took the Bass family years to obtain was because the heirs of the original owner lived out of town--Chicago?--and one of them liked the income and didn't care for FW for some reason.  I seem to recall he had to die for the lot to finally open to the square we have now.


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#25 gdvanc

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 12:28 AM

Yes, I expect they're profitable. What I should have said is that I wonder how profitable. Given the net revenues, how much would I have to pay for a piece of a city block that is currently paid parking (if I could find a willing seller) vs. how much they spent on the 8th & Houston property? I'm really curious about the cash flows for properties downtown in general, and how they compare for different uses.

 

I also wonder, if I were in a position to finance construction of a building, which properties are even available for sell at a reasonable price? We can look around at where we think the best site for something would be, but not every property is for sale for what it's worth to a developer.

 

I started looking through the 10-K from SP+ (who I think owns the Central Parking brand you see downtown) to see if I could get anything out of it, but I am way to sleepy for that right now.



#26 renamerusk

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 06:03 PM

Ignoring the loss of Century Plaza, thats an awesome building, decent design, but a ton of versatility for that part of town....

 

 From what I am able to surmise, the Downtown Residence Inn Tower (DTFWRI) will stand out as being their signature project.  As of this date, Icon Lodging projects have all been very suburban, motor-oriented styled inns.



#27 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 09:18 PM

I'm a little bothered by how the windows shift a little each floor. The building would look a little bit taller and better if all the windows were aligned.

 

That said, I'm happy to see more infill planned for the Fort Worth skyline. :)


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#28 Urbndwlr

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 03:31 PM

As mentioned earlier, I cannot believe that buying a building like that, (abating the asbestos) and then building on that tiny site is the best, most cost effective option.

I like Jeriat's idea of the surface lot to the east by the building where Purple Land has its offices. 

 

SURELY building on a surface lot is more cost effective (and something we all want to see) than eliminating that building - which has renovation potential - as SOMETHING. 

 

I am glad to see a slender structure proposed, but in my opinion, the facade could be designed with a more enduring design.  It's not terrible, however I'm afraid that particular design will not age very gracefully. 



#29 JBB

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 04:59 PM

I hate to be the simpleton of the group, but if it was more cost effective to build elsewhere, they would.  There's a number of factors involved in why they're building where they are, but I have trouble believing they would go out of their way to tear down a historic building if they could do it differently and make more money.



#30 renamerusk

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 09:05 PM

Granted there is a surplus of vacant lots in Downtown but location is one of the pillars of real estate.

 

At this time, a Houston Street/Main Street address is more desirable than either Jones or Calhoun Streets, regardless of the  over-rated "creds" attributed to the ITC.



#31 gdvanc

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 10:54 PM

Granted there is a surplus of vacant lots in Downtown but location is one of the pillars of real estate.

 

Another one is: "Not every lot is for sale."

 

Just because a site would work better for your project doesn't mean they have to sell it to you.*

 

 

*- for a reasonable price.**

 

** - ...or at all.



#32 elpingüino

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 02:11 PM

I have been tipped off with some information on this project.  The location is correct.  This Residence Inn is scheduled to be built on the northeast corner of Houston & 8th.  The site is currently occupied by Century Plaza, a poorly remodeled 1903 early Fort Worth building.  It's former name was the Reynolds Cattle Company Building.  I checked the TAD website and this property was bought by a lodging developer back in June of 2015.  I have seen a rendering of the building and it looks like it will be something like 22 stories.  Go to this link to see the rendering: http://www.iconlodging.com

 

Here's a rendering of the Residence Inn from the Icon Lodging homepage. Apologies that the image is so large. If someone can tell me how to adjust the image size within a post, I'm all ears.

 

Downtown-Fort-Worthzoom.jpg



#33 Doohickie

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 09:21 PM

Go to this link to see the rendering: http://www.iconlodging.com

 

At that link I noticed a Townplace Suites and a Fairfield Inn & Suites in Downtown Fort Worth as well.  Do we know where those are being built?


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#34 JBB

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 09:42 PM

The Park Central Hotel is being renovated and branded as a Fairfield.  I'm pretty sure that's a rendering of that project.  Not sure about the Townplace since there's already one on Belknap and it looks nothing like that.



#35 John T Roberts

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 09:45 PM

The TownePlace Suites will be located at 3477 Lovell Avenue and is currently under construction.  We are discussing it in another thread that can be found here: http://www.fortworth...?showtopic=6105



#36 Doohickie

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 02:56 PM

Thanks guys.


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#37 Austin55

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 05:41 PM

I walked by Century Plaza recently and the idea of a 23 floor building being on that plot is crazy. It's absolutely tiny!

#38 Jeriat

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 05:53 PM

It should be a max of 10 floors.

That's too tall for that small space.

7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#39 renamerusk

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 09:51 AM

I walked by Century Plaza recently and the idea of a 23 floor building being on that plot is crazy. It's absolutely tiny!

 

 

It should be a max of 10 floors....That's too tall for that small space.

 

Oh yeah?

 

Now granted we are far far far from being even consider NYC; but too tiny and 10 floor max,  maybe not so quick. 

 

23-story on this site appears very practical v/s:

 

https://www.departur...york-apartments



#40 johnfwd

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 10:21 AM

 

I walked by Century Plaza recently and the idea of a 23 floor building being on that plot is crazy. It's absolutely tiny!

 

 

It should be a max of 10 floors....That's too tall for that small space.

 

Oh yeah?

 

Now granted we are far far far from being even consider NYC, but too tiny and 10 floor max; maybe not so quick.  23-story appears very practical v/s:

 

https://www.departur...york-apartments

Yeah, they sure know how to squeeze a lot into small spaces on Manhattan Island.  So, the Century Plaza building will be demolished; I believe this tract could accommodate a 22-story building.



#41 johnfwd

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 10:23 AM

 

 

I walked by Century Plaza recently and the idea of a 23 floor building being on that plot is crazy. It's absolutely tiny!

 

 

It should be a max of 10 floors....That's too tall for that small space.

 

Oh yeah?

 

Now granted we are far far far from being even consider NYC, but too tiny and 10 floor max; maybe not so quick.  23-story appears very practical v/s:

 

https://www.departur...york-apartments

Yeah, they sure know how to squeeze a lot into small spaces on Manhattan Island.  So, the Century Plaza building will be demolished; I believe this tract could accommodate a 22-story building.  Other than the rendering on the developer's website, has there been a news update on this project?

 



#42 John T Roberts

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 10:53 AM

The only other news that I have regarding the project is that the owner is not renewing leases that are expiring. 



#43 Jeriat

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 12:31 PM

I walked by Century Plaza recently and the idea of a 23 floor building being on that plot is crazy. It's absolutely tiny!

 
 

It should be a max of 10 floors....That's too tall for that small space.

 
Oh yeah?
 
Now granted we are far far far from being even consider NYC; but too tiny and 10 floor max,  maybe not so quick. 
 
23-story on this site appears very practical v/s:
 
https://www.departur...york-apartments
It's practical, but there's no NEED to do this here. This isn't Manhattan. There's more than enough space available.

7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#44 rriojas71

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 01:06 PM

the main concern I see with this building is not the location, which I actually like because it creates density, but instead the parking situation. Is this building gong to demand yet another parking garage in this area of downtown, which I feel has too many to begin with.

#45 Austin55

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 01:38 PM

I have no issue with it, I'm excited to hear more about it and to see it go up. The density will be nice.

#46 renamerusk

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 02:31 PM

It's practical, but there's no NEED to do this here. This isn't Manhattan. There's more than enough space available.

 

As a result of the Cultural District Hotel debate, we learned that incentives are provided to developers who contruct 200-room >/= hotels; and that a variance was necessary to provide the proposed Cultural District hotel with the incentatives after the hotel size was reduced from +200 to 170.

If this is the case, then a 200 room hotel will have to be constructed upon this site to receive incentatives.  Therefore, a hotel taller than 10 floors would be necessary to meet this requirement.  How could 200 rooms be squeezed in a building at this location and be limited to 10 floors?

Apparently, the location is available and affordable.  Is there another location which is both available and affordable?  It is an excellentl location to the convention center complex and will compliment as well as compete with the existing Omni Hotel.

For these reasons, I think this site is a logical location and use for a hotel which (1) must be financially sound and (2) would like to receive incentatives.  

Could you be more forthcoming regarding your concerns?
 



#47 JBB

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 03:43 PM

The idea of having an issue with this proposal because "there's more than enough space available" elsewhere boggles my mind.  An individual owns a property, has a feasible development plan that will bring what they think is a satisfactory return, and presumably doesn't have an alternative available to bring a similar return. Are there other lots downtown on which a 200 room hotel could built?  Of course.  But it's a pretty incredible reach to say this is a bad plan when we have no idea if any of those other properties are available at a price at which the same owner and developer could have the same success.  I think everyone here is smart enough to know that proposal like this have a reasonable amount of planning and research behind them.  It's not throwing dart at proposals on a board.  No developer worth their salt leaves money on the table to go with a creative plan like this one.  

 

As for parking, I also don't think a developer doesn't go forward with a proposal like this without a plan.  I assume a lease in an existing garage is on the table.  If a new garage was the plan, I think it would have surfaced by now. 



#48 Jeriat

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 04:11 PM

I'm not saying at all that it's a BAD plan. I personally think it'should weird to have a tower that tall in that space.

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#49 JBB

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 04:56 PM

What exactly is weird about density in a downtown area or a developer creatively using a small block to put together a successful project?

#50 Jeriat

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 08:32 PM

It's not the density I'm focused on, here. It's the height... that's it.

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